FYI, when the new teams are announced, I will take care of the new threads so that y'all don't post them all at the same time. So DON'T START the new racer threads, please. I'll do them today.

Would you prefer a separate thread for TAR Premiere Parties or should we just mention a party in the Meet Market Thread and direct people to the appropriate CityCon Thread?

Hmm. If it's a TAR-specific party, you can have a premiere party thread. If it's a TWoPcon that you're incidentally holding on the night of the premiere, just mention it in the Meet Market. I hope that makes sense -- I trust your judgment, and we'll see how it goes. (That's one premiere party thread, by the way, not one thread per party, if you're having more than one.)

Thanks! It makes perfect sense. Now I can check off one thing on my list of things to do (check with Miss Alli about thread).

One more announcement: Around here, nickname suggestions go in the Nicknames thread in Whimsy. Otherwise, it degenerates into people competing to come up with the most obscure and longest nickname that nobody else will recognize, and then we have a bunch of people trying to force their choice into general use by using it when nobody else gets it, so . . . you're free to do it in Whimsy, but I'm done with the broad free-for-all where everybody spits out fifty names for every team, because . . . it's a mess.

"But on my other show, they let us do that!"

Yes. Your mod there probably hasn't been through as much pain there as I have here. Some things work one place and not another place.

Thank you so much for that, Miss Alli.

Is "Questions for the Amazing Racers" going to stay in the "Previous Seasons" section?

If you haven't read the special note about spoilers, read it now.

Miss Alli--Sorry to be getting way ahead of things here, but a couple of us were just wondering, do you think will there be a TARCon this year, too? Is there a more appropriate thread for that question? I looked around these forums and the TWoPCon forums and didn't see anything. I know it's a little early to be asking...but we're already planning ahead.

ETA: Cool. Thanks, Piperdown.

As long as there has been TAR there has been the TARcon, so I wouldn't imagine it would be any different this year. In the past it has been organized by Miss Dona, and Poptart. As soon as we get the finale date, they make the plans public. I would assume it would be the same this year.

Maybe in Chicago--it's SO much closer to Minnesota. :)

Yep, it's too early. I would tentatively assume that the answer is yes, unless you hear different, but the planners have put in valiant efforts over a couple of years, and they may run out of steam at some point. I'm sure they'll let y'all know with some advance notice if that happens.

Miss Alli, if you're going to use "y'all," you need to learn that "y'all" is the singular and "all y'all" is the plural. Although both sound weird with a Minnesota accent, so I always have a momentary disconnect when you use it!

I now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion.

That makes no sense. Isn't "y'all" a contraction of "you all" and therefore already plural?

Yes. At least in Oklahoma. Maybe Cajuns are different. Here, we figure anyone who says y'all about one person is probably from Hollywood.

Okay, this is really a mod announcement thread anyway, so.

Sorry for the hijack, Miss Alli, I was just amused by your choice of such a southern term. Papa Tiger's a good Minnesota boy, too, and it would sound equally strange coming from him, hence my far-too-random thought!

Don't worry about TARcon. Plans are alive and well... but expect some changes this time around.

No need to worry about the plans, the changes or anything else until we have a firm finale date.

(I'm going to be reposting a few basic reminders as we get underway, so here's the edited version of the Racer and Racer Accessory Posting Manifesto.)

Hello, Miss Alli. I am a Racer, Friend of Racer, Family Member of Racer, Old College Roommate of Racer, Hairdresser of Racer, Debt Collector Who Once Harassed Racer, One-Time One-Night Stand of Racer, or Delusional Person Who Believes Racer Talks To Me Through My Television Using Magic Particles. Can you tell me what special posting rules apply to me?

I'm so glad you asked.

Welcome, Racer or Racer Accessory! You have found your way to the Racer and Racer Accessory Posting Manifesto. It consists of all the special posting rules that apply to you. Ready? Here we go.

Okay, did you get all that?

Yeah. See, it is the blessing and curse of TWoP posting that no special rules apply to you. This is what people who like it like about it. You are welcome to post, to not post, to lurk, to not lurk, or to sit in your living room playing Monopoly and muttering, "Crazy damn internet people." We like to think it's a fun place to hang out, but if you show up, the same rules are going to apply to you in your capacity as a poster that apply to everyone else. Read the FAQ. Follow the FAQ. If you don't, you'll find yourself banned, just like everybody else. This is not a hypothetical. It didn't happen on this show, but a reality show contestant's grandma got booted once. Believe me, we do it. As with booting anybody else, I don't enjoy it, but we do it. But if you think about it, that's why it might be fun. Throw in with the crazies; the water's fine.

Let me elaborate a tiny bit on one point. I have sometimes had indignant Racers or Racer Accessories ask how it's possible that they aren't allowed to post messages telling the people who don't like them that they're dirty bastards, but the people who don't like them were allowed to say they were dirty bastards. The answer is that nobody is allowed to call you a dirty bastard as a poster, but they are allowed to call you one as a contestant, because you are, in fact, the topic, and appearing on the forums can't vaccinate you against criticism. Let me explain by way of a tortured hypothetical of the type of which law school professors are fond.

You are seen on television picking your nose. A flurry of posts follows, saying basically this: "EEEEW! He picked his nose! That was so gross!" You, sitting in front of your computer, cannot stand having this said about you or the racer to whom you are an accessory. "I did not pick my nose!" you say indignantly. "I was scratching an itch." (This, on your part, is fine.) Poster A responds to you as follows: "I don't believe you were scratching an itch at all, and I found the pick filthy and vile." Poster B responds to you as follows: "You weren't scratching an itch, and it's pretty pathetic of you to be posting anyway, and I don't want to hear anything you have to say." Poster A? Is fine. Poster B? Will hear from me, because when posting, you get treated like a poster, and that's rude.

So -- welcome. Take your shoes off. Hang around. Gossip. Correct misunderstandings, nicely. The best thing you can do is to read the FAQ, particularly the "Forums" section. Because those are the rules we follow, and they're not that tough, provided you're not trying to fuck up.

And a note for those of you who are not Racers or Racer Accessories: Every time somebody shows up, there is inevitably at least one post -- and usually there are several posts -- saying, "Oh, I hope you know we're all just kidding! We never mean anything we say! We're all just joking!" Don't do this. (1) It's unseemly sucking-up. (2) It doesn't fool them. (3) I hate it, because it sounds like you're apologizing on behalf of other people, including me, who may not want to apologize. So don't do that. It's gross.

On the flip side, it's also not a dogpile. Don't expect to be a gratuitous asshole to a Racer or Racer Accessory in his or her capacity as a poster just because you can, or just because it's fun. The best policy is as it is with anybody else -- if you don't like them, don't talk to them. Oh, and if they act like trolls? Don't feed.

Short version? Everybody who posts plays by the same rules. If you don't like seeing yourself/your son/your manicurist/your doctor/your husband/your spiritual advisor/your personal Jesus/your red-headed stepchild who is appearing on television talked about in nasty ways and you're not going to be able to take it, this is not the place for you. If you hang around, you're going to have to keep it together. If you do, it's a good time.

And now, the monthly reminder that the name is spelled as follows:

A-L-L-I.

Not "Allie" like Kate and, not "Ali" like Muhammad. One A, two Ls, one I, in that order, and that's it. Miss Alli is too nice to correct y'all on that point but I am not. Spell it correctly.

People using the Racer threads as chat rooms during episodes will be booted without recourse.

We all know there are a lot of posts. That's baseball. You must read them all; please do not waste bandwidth congratulating yourselves on getting through them all. Thanks.

Can I ask for clarification on this one? Are you just asking people to not pull the "I'm going to tm "Team Such and Such"! but making up and using nicknames are ok as long as they aren't pushing you to adopt them? Or are you asking for everybody to specify, for example, "Charla and Mirna" instead of "Team HiLo" and so on?

As well, clarification on something else - should this have gone into an email instead? Are we ok to post in here with a question re: your announcements?

Second question first: Usually try email, unless you expect it's something a lot of other people are confused about.

First question second: I'm not going to parse it to that degree. I don't believe that there's anyone who's been here for any length of time who doesn't know what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the competitive BS in which everybody tries to get their chosen eighty-letter nickname into the rotation and it turns into a free-for-all. I'm not going to sit here and write rules for it, because if I do, the next sport will be figuring out how to violate their spirit without violating their letter, because that's what happens whenever I write rules.

So I'm not writing rules. You're going to have to use your judgment. What I myself have learned about nicknames over the years is that the best ones really aren't funny. They're SHORT. They're ONE WORD. They're NOT CUTESY. (I think "HiLo," for instance, is entirely too cutesy, and I would never touch it myself.) It's when they get too cute, and too self-conscious, and/or too lengthy, that they tend to make people . . . well, hate you and hate reading your posts. (Not you personally.) If you've ever read a post where six teams are all being referred to with four-word nicknames, you know what I'm talking about.

Use your judgment. Use nicknames as SHORTHAND, and don't try to get cool points for being the person who comes up with the cleverest ones. When I see you doing that, that's when we're going to have a problem.

Thanks for the guidelines, Miss Alli! I'm new to these boards and I don't want to step on any toes as I ease my way in here...

(And of course I'll use my best judgement as you said. But do you give warnings first or is it one strike and you're out?)

Read the site FAQ, please.

If you are new here, or if you are not here, please review the FAQ.

And listen up, please -- we are having a problem with tone. You don't need to snort at people that they're definitely wrong, unless you're talking about something that can be undisputably shown. In other words, you can say, "The show definitely showed her getting stuck in the mud," but you can't say, "You are wrong, he was definitely being sarcastic." Just don't act like that.

There is a lot of banning going on, and I'm happy to do more of it, but it's a waste of my time and energy, which I would rather spend making cookies for all of you and sending them in boxes tied with pink ribbons, so let's smarten up.

It can't be easy but you do a great job of keeping things civilized around here. What kind of cookies?

On the FAQ note, I'd like to add a couple answers to questions that I've seen repeatedly in the last couple episode threads.

1: The Fast Forward still exists, but not in every leg. When there's one available, we will hear about it.

2: If the Yield isn't shown in a leg, it's probably because no one used it.

I'm talking about the site FAQ. I'm unlikely to update the show FAQ during the season, because trying to keep up with changes is too much of a pain.

As per my own post on July 7th, which apparently people have not read:



From now on, "Woo! I read all XX pages" gets you a warning. Knock it off.

AIIIIIEEEEEEE!

Sorry. Just the last few days getting to me.

Seriously, people. Read the site FAQ. Read it again. We do not talk about the boards on the boards. If your post is about why you think other people have the wrongheaded notions they do ("I think you all don't like this team just because blah blah blah . . . ," you are talking about the boards on the boards. Your post. Should be. About. The show. If it isn't, don't post it.

Reminders.

Talk about the show, not the thread. Things that violate this rule include:

• The "I don't get the hate" post. Whether you "get" or don't "get" other people's reactions is kind of irrelevant. The world contains varying opinions, and there's nothing to "get."
• The "If Such-and-Such team had done what So-and-So team did, you would all say blah blah blah" post. Don't do that. First of all, you don't know what you're talking about most of the time, and second of all, it's a lot more effective to just express your own opinion of what happened.
• The thinly veiled "the only reason the other teams don't like So-and-So is blah blah blah," when you're obviously aiming at other posters to tell them that this is clearly the reason that they dislike So-and-So. This is not a tricky maneuver.
• The "I'm disappointed to see so many people say blah blah blah" post. Don't be disappointed in us. It's condescending.

And since this seems to be the season of "Let's Talk About Jesus," please keep in mind that attempting to define what Christianity does or does not include is something that is personal. Not all Christians agree on what Christianity includes. You're welcome to say what it includes for you, and it's not like you need to put "to me," or "just my opinion" every time, but please try not to look like you're aiming to shut down other people's interpretations.

And by the way, don't spew sexist claptrap. I don't have a polite, moderate way of saying that. Just don't, because . . . don't.

Please remember not only to read the thread, but to remember why we ask you to read the thread. It's not that you're going to be kicked off for not being totally original, but when the thread turns into Groundhog Day, where exactly the same conversation is being had over and over (and over), it's time to put on the brakes and let it go. We've had hash, re-hash, re-re-hash, and re-re-re-hash this week in particular, so it's just something to keep in mind.

Thanks!

Posting about racers posting (for instance, "I hope they come and post!" "If you're out there, come post!") is off-topic. It's also kind of . . . icky. Ditto going on about how much you want them to come to the party, et cetera. Everybody's welcome to post or not, and come to the party or not. Talking about that stuff in the threads is way too meta. Thanks.

Miss Alli, I know that you were frustrated with the early NYMetro showing this week, so I wanted to give you a heads-up. Same schedule next week, 7pm for NYC.

I'm sorry this is going to make you crazy again next week. This thread is a monumental task and you are phenomenal at keeping it together. Sorry the networks are making it harder.

At least us in the NYC area know not to post till 11pm now. I think a lot of people, myself included, saw the thread open for the episode and thought we were allowed to post. I will tape the episode and not be able to join you guys in posting till Wednesday:(

Reminders, with the caution that en masse banning is going to start on some of these issues, because things are becoming ridiculous:

1. Talk about the show and the contestants, not about other posters. This rule is not difficult. And if your post starts out to be about other posters but you carefully change it so that it is technically dissing third parties who share the views of other posters? That's the same thing. I'm not new at this. I will throw you clean off the boards for this, and there will be no parole.

2. The topic is the topic. Don't post crap in threads where it doesn't belong.

3. Don't post the same thing in multiple threads. Yes, this includes almost the same thing.

4. Don't try to work around the length limit by posting twice in a row.

5. Don't argue about moderating decisions within the thread. When you edit your post to explain why I shouldn't have said anything about it, that's arguing about moderating decisions in the thread. Don't do it.

6. Don't take things that people say about contestants personally. When you become overly invested in what other posters say about particular teams, it's time to take a step back and get your breath.

7. Don't hijack the discussion. If you see that you represent every fourth post in a particular thread, think about whether maybe you've had your say and need to back off.

8. Speculation goes in the speculation thread. The rest of the time, you need to be talking about the show, and that means things that happened on the show. As I've already said, interpreting a particular moment -- "It seemed like we came in on the middle of that conversation" and so forth -- is fine. But as I said at the same time, no fanfic. It's impossible to have a discussion when the answer to every question is that something might have happened and not been shown that would make everything look the opposite of the way it looked on the show.

9. Read the FAQ. Read the FAQ. Read the FAQ. Obvious FAQ violations indicate that you haven't even tried, and yes, you can be summarily booted.

I've just consulted the FAQ and couldn't find any reference to a length limit. What is this limit, and where do I find it?

I'm aware that I might just be really dense. :)

It's here in the Site FAQ, not the Show FAQ.

Please see tonight's episode thread to avoid getting smacked for inadvertent spoilage.

Hi, y'all. I wanted to give a heads-up on where I am about the whole "abuse" thing, because I had mentioned it elsewhere, but I lose track of what I've said in the racer threads, contestant threads, blah dee blah.

Here's what I told somebody last night:

It's one of the things that happens when you're a mod -- something happens on the show, and some part of you just immediately cries out in pain, because you know that the forums are going to be . . . complicated. I mean, I knew as soon as I saw Colin throw that fit in the first place.

As with Hatch and Sue, I totally get the importance of the issues people want to discuss. It's not like I don't think abuse is important. It's just that . . . BOY, have I never seen those discussions go well. Generally, everybody feels attacked, everybody feels angry . . . bleh. And a lot of it comes down to things that people aren't going to agree on anyway. And kind of don't need to agree on, because they're not the important things. With Colin, for instance, it isn't as important to me whether people label a particular behavior "emotional abuse" or not -- what matters is whether they believe that's acceptable behavior to exhibit toward your girlfriend. (I would, obviously, vote "No.")

I just want to issue a general reminder, in the spirit of the one issued in one of the contestant threads, that the threads are to be about the show. At some point, endless speculation about whether this person or that person is eeeeeevil and how they behave when they're not on television begins to run fairly far afield of the topic. Furthermore, this is supposed to be fun, and when conversations become angry and ugly, it's just kind of a mood-killer. Just . . . I get that people have strong feelings, and so do I, and there's nothing wrong with being like, "Damn, that person was an asshole about that" and the like, but when the entire conversation turns into a referendum on the underlying merits of people above and beyond the show, it gets bogged down and unpleasant.

We're all supposed to be on the same side here, y'all, so don't let it get too combative. Thanks.

Dearest Miss Alli, may we start up the TAR6 individual team threads now, or would you prefer to do that yourself?

I'll do it tomorrow.

Okay, new racer threads are open. Please do not rehash what you've already gone over in the "Meet the Teams" thread. And please, please do not feel obligated to go through methodically and announce in every one your "pre-like," "pre-hate," "pre-meh," predicted placements, first impressions, or anything like that. Avoidance of that stuff is basically why the threads weren't opened until today.

A few reminders as we approach the premiere -- hey, tonight!

Y'all will probably kill the server. We are still in late-stage upgrade mode, it appears, and there are still hiccups.

I do not want to hear about it. Seriously. Everyone is looking at the same stuff you are, and there is absolutely no point in bitching about it. I, in particular, have exactly the same server access you do, except my presence is not voluntary, so I really don't want to moderate three pages of "Damn server! It took me sixteen tries to get here!" Everyone knows.

Similarly, if you post -- hit the button ONCE, please -- and for some reason, the identical post shows up twice, you're welcome to edit out the content from one of them if you want to -- you certainly don't have to -- and replace it with "oops" or whatever, but if you're going back to edit out the content and replace it with a remark about how much you hate the server or hate getting whatever message? Just don't. Everybody gets it. Everybody is on it. Bitching about the server is really, really pointless, because . . . really, we know.

Other than that, review the FAQ, review the general Dos and Don'ts, and we'll all be fine.

Pursuant to that, please do not begin posts congratulating yourselves on reading the whole thread. That'll get you a warn and three days off.

Also, do not use the contestant threads as chat rooms. Thanks.

There seems to be some confusion about the pimping policy, so let me try to elaborate on it, with the caution that it's not perfectly mechanical, so to some degree, we'll figure it out as we go.

There's no policy against linking to interesting stuff you find in other sites, provided that they're not yours. If your only relationship to a site is that you read it, there's nothing wrong with linking to something you find there. You don't have to be mysterious, "I read this on Some Other Site." What we're getting at is (1) we're not here to do free advertising for other sites, so their proprietors and writers really shouldn't be linking themselves; and (2) the site is a business, so we don't appreciate spending our bandwidth for general, "Go read boards that are better than the suck boards here, at the following address!" posts. That's tacky, like leaving a note on the table at a restaurant that says, "Next time, eat at the following other restaurant."

But there's no need for mystery. The internet is big, and you're free to link to things you come across that you think are interesting. In fact, one of our anti-pimping arguments is that if your site is good, somebody who isn't you will point it out.

Please review new post below.