Bump:

Tournament 12 airs tomorrow night (Wednesday), and I finally found this thread! The Reno Hilton is the venue.

Thanx for the bump, NovacScott. For all of us who watched the CPS disaster last night, this will be a great example of how poker is really played.

Also, before WPT comes on (8pm E/7pm C), Travel Channel also shows the "Million Dollar Blackjack Tournament".

I'll watch anything poker, but I'm really getting tired of all these WPT reruns! There's only so much you can take before it gets boring. I got so sick watching that dentist with his one and only all-in move the entire night. Bring on some new Shana Hiatt, please!

On a different note, I saw World Series champ Chris Moneymaker this past New Year's weekend at the Mirage. He was playing in the high limit section and had on his characteristic sunglasses. He was so much taller than I expected - I'm guessing at least 6' 2" or so. On tv he looks like a big guy in terms of his weight - but he also looks stocky. Saw him give an autograph to someone and seemed gracious about it. Other than that he didn't seem to garner too much attention. I noticed he walked out with 4 racks of $5 chips, so $2000 total.

I didn't know last night's show was a rerun. Nice celebrity sighting, Rainmaker. I wonder why Moneymaker doesn't play on the WPT events. Also, ITA on more Shana Hiatt -- let's have less Paris/Reno/SF (bundled-up Shana) and more Aruba/Costa Rica/cruise ships (bikini Shana)!

What was Paul Magritte's (X22) damage? His obnoxious "quack, quack"? His ridiculous giggling? His yellow teeth? I think Cal the Dentist saw X22 as a money machine, and I don't mean due to his poker skills.

On the Celebrity Poker Showdown thread, posters were writing about how boring Phil Gordon is as a commentator. I'd almost take him in a trade for the unfunny and painful Vince Van Patten. "Hollywood Home Game Legend", my ass! Just keep living off your dad's "Eight is Enough" residual checks, play tennis & stay off my TV!

I believe most, if not all, of the ones that are showing now were taped before last year's WSOP, which was Moneymaker's first live tournament. To the best of my knowledge, he still isn't a "pro", so I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't show up in any of this year's either.

And X22 is definitely not pretty. Dude just had "savant" written all over him. All brains, zero social grace.

I know that he is scheduled to play the WPT/Pokerstars Royal Caribbean Adventure of the Seas tourney. He's already registered and plunked down the $10000 entry fee. I think he'll definitely be playing in the WPT this year. I don't recall exactly what his real job was (accounting?), but when you make $2.5 million over 4 days, I guess things can change quite quickly. I guess you're a "pro" when your primary source of income is from gambling. With all that money now, he can afford to just sit back and play in the tournaments he wants to. I say he becomes a regular on the circuit.

I wonder, did he do a "deal" at the final table (Moneymaker) to split the winnings? Most of the people who play at that level usually do.

I am a pretty serious poker player and I love WPT and WSOP. However, i cannot stand CPS. Me and my friends would literally scream at the television at some of the horrible plays they were making. The most exciting times in poker are hands where someone has pocket queens and somebody came over the top of them all-in, and has to decide what do, or something like that. Or when Hellmuth bluffed Tony D out of his three jacks in WSOP. The celebs are just not capable of making the types of plays that the pros do, or even that any serious player could. If somebody starts talking to you about poker and how great CPS is, you immediately know that they know squat about the game.

Although Moneymaker did get very lucky, i thought he was a solid player. He did make some mistakes that he lucked out of, like drawing the third eight on Brenes, but he also made some nice plays. Calling Dutch Boyd with just the threes was a very good call, and i don't think anyone would have not called Ivy's all-in with three queens and top kicker. I personally think Farha has nobody to blame but himself for not winning it. Moneymaker bluffed at a pot all-in when Farha had top pair. Sammy knew that Moneymaker was bluffing, but wasn't gutsy enough to call with all his chips.

It's supposed to be entertainment, not great poker. Most people are able to distinguish the difference.

He reminds me of the Hunchback of Notre Dame...minus all the endearing qualities.

Did y'all hear the explanation of his nickname, X22? IIRC, he set up a backgammon championship with 64 players (he was all 64, of course), and X22 won the tournament. Makes me wonder if he's a genius or just plain crazy.

Clearly, he is both!
My sentiments exactly.

Well, it looks like Moneymaker will have two distinguishing marks next to his name as the 2003 WSOP Champ.

The first to win it all from an initial online entry and....

Probably the last champ ever of the series...according to this

Or maybe not?

Fandomania, thanx for the linx. After the big successes that TV poker has shown in recent months, somebody's got to be interested in buying the rights to the WSOP name. My 3 likely candidates are ESPN (they've shown the WSOP the last few years, and it's bound to be better than those chess & billiards shows they have now), FoxSportsNet (although their presentation of the Sands Million Dollar Deal tournament was awful), and Steve Lipscomb (WPT owner -- would want to consolidate his hold on the TV poker market).

Also, I'm sure that whoever gets the rights won't lack for a place to hold the tournament -- again, with TV poker's popularity, most of the major casinos would love that name recognition.

Hi, I love you all for being here: after seeing WSoP over New Year's, I'm seriously considering quitting my job and hitting the circuit. Whether it will be as a groupie or a player is yet to be determined. To sum up my poker feelings:

• Hate Hellmuth with the fire of a thousand suns.
• Adore Lederer. Adore.
• Want to marry Jason Lester and his brown clothes. No one cooler. A guy at the World Series who talks about being mellow, and getting lucky on flops in his interview? He must be mine.
• I don't like him, but much respect to Sammy Farha for his kickass look and style. He looks like a 40s movie star.
• Did I mention the Hellmuth hate? Evil bastard.

I love Howard Lederer too. He has been announcing with two jerks on "Showdown at the Sands/Late Night Poker" on FoxSports. I find myself hanging on every word he says. Still, I think he might be too conservative as a card player.

If i had to make a side bet on a heads up match between Farha and Lederer I think I would have to go with Sammy. Just on looks and confidence!

It's semi-official. Harrah's is buying the Horseshoe and most likely will be putting on the WSOP...but where it has not been determined (they own several LV properties and many more around the USA). It would be interesting if they moved it to some place like New Orleans or AC.

Hurrah! Harrah's!

I don't know ... Lederer is a pretty kick-ass heads-up player. The two times he got to the final table on WPT, he got it down to heads-up and pretty much mopped the floor with his opponents (Layne Flack and Chip Jett) each time.

Gotta love the Professor!

Not only that, but he actually seemed to be playing quite loose the whole time in the Flack event. I agree that he seemed pretty tight at the WSOP, but I got the impression that he *widely* mixes up his game from watching his WPT showings. Sometimes he'll play ultra tight, other times he'll go way loose.

You also have to take into account the differences in events: The televised portion of the WPT is just the last 6 players, and there's a HUGE difference between playing against 5 other people and the WSOP, where you have 10 at your table the whole time, and as soon as someone gets knocked out, they get replaced by someone from another table. You have to tighten your game up substantially with 10 or so people, at least compared to 6 or fewer...

My impression of Howard's tight play at WSOP may have more to do with the super dorky picture of him that his sister , Annie Duke, showed to ESPN. Poor Howard was overweight, squat, poorly dressed, and was generally lumpy . I still love him though. I did see him play against Jett but I wasn't fully into my Poker obsession yet. I hope I can catch a rerun.

I particularly loved how when Annie was "all in" he walked over to watch her hand get played.

I really want to read the book their other sister (Katy?) wrote about them called "Poker Face".

Poker Face: A Girlhood Among Gamblers by Katy Lederer

From what I've read about it, a pretty sad story overall.

ETA: WPT Championship tonite 9pE/8pC

Last night on the finals during one of the bumpers, they asked the question (paraphrased): what are the odds of the board having 4 of a kind. The answer they gave was 1 in 54145. Isn't that the odds of the board having a specific 4 of a kind (such as 4 sevens)? I got 1 in 4165 for any 4 of a kind on the board. Anyone out there with better math skills than I who can verify?

To go back a few posts-


Are you sure they were $5 chips? That seems a strange denomination to be toting around in the high limit section, unless the $5/$10 game is considered high limit? Everything I have heard about Moneymaker is that he seems to be a gracious kid who knows how lucky he got. Not to say that he can't play poker, but there are A LOT of great poker players who have never won the WSOP.

Sounds like the WPT reruns are almost over! Not quite as cool as the new season (which starts in March), but any new televised poker is good poker (even when the poker itself is dreadful!).

I was playing in a 3-6 game using the red $5 chips, and they certainly looked the same from where I was sitting. Perhaps he was playing 10-20 or 20-40? That night all they were spreading in the normal section was 3-6, so anything higher would be in the back high limit section.

My friend says he heard that Moneymaker is broke. Any truth to that, anyone? I've heard he was playing a lot, and I also heard he was getting kicked around a lot online. But I guess it's all hearsay. At least that night, he seemed to have done well.

Thanks for the link re the WPT Hollywood Home game. Seems like a knock-off of Celebrity Poker Showdown, only with some somewhat bigger names (Daniel Baldwin excluded). Let's hope that Kevin Pollack stays away.

The WPT Hollywood Home Game claims to have Jack Black. Of course, he was in the Celebrity Poker Showdown press release and didn't appear on my television, so I shouldn't get too excited.

Thanks for the link, poolsharke. Hopefully, this will be a much better exhibition of poker than CPS was. Actually, it has to be: I didn't see Scott Stapp's name on the list!

I'd seen a few weeks ago that they had several celebrity images on the WPT photo page and wondered if they were going to have a televised show. Guess they are.

The celeb photos are towards the bottom of the page: http://www.worldpokertour.com/media/photo_...o_gallery.phtml

Ahh ok. I was thinking more along the lines of the private tables for high rollers, which run games like $300/$600 (in which case a small blind would be 30 $5 chips!). It makes sense to use nickels for $15/$30 or $20/$40.



There have been a lot of rumors spread about Moneymaker. My personal feeling is that most or all are started by people that are jealous that an 'average guy' like him had such a successful run at the WSOP, and are eager to 'prove' that he doesn't belong (I hear a lot of the same stuff about Robert Varkonyi, the 2002 champ). Until I see a dateline story in a reputable news source (I would even count Card Player magazine), I am not gonna buy it. The guy is a freakin' accountant, for Christ's sake; I give him a much better shot at hanging on to at least SOME of his money than a lot of poker players.

It looks like Evelyn Ng dealing in those WPT celeb photos.

I just have to say that it's lovely to finally drop into this thread and find out that I'm not the only one who hates Phil Hellmuth. I want to hit him with things.

At first, when I came home to find mrjaz watching televised poker, I thought he'd lost his mind. Now, I watch the WPT reruns and still enjoy them, even though I know who's going to win. It's still fun to watch the hands.

Oh, and I hate Layne Flack too, but only because he says he's from my home town, and he's not. What a bizarre thing to lie about.

el mapache, I think they said that, when Evelyn Ng played in the "Ladies Night" special, she started out as a dealer.

jazmyne, there's still plenty of good seats available on the Phil Hell-mouth hate train!

I was right. Mimi Rogers is not only playing in this tournament, but wearing the same top. Unless it's her lucky poker blouse, that's just wrong.

I noticed that too, SVNBob. I found that very odd. It's not even a cute blouse. It's strange and offputting.

Saw the WPT "Party" game last night on the travel channel. It was LIMIT Texas Hold Em. Howard Lederer won over Chip somethingoranother. There was an amateur who was a cattle rancher from California who finished third. Howard dominated the end game, despite fluxtuation between chip leader and fifth. He drew extremely well (i.e., got a little luck) in the last few hands, but a lot of hands were played and it was fun to watch.

BassetHound, WPT is in reruns right now and it's probably at least the 3rd time this PartyPoker cruise episode has been shown. But it's still fun to watch. Chip and Howard were basically playing just junk and raising with anything. I would never play most of the hands they were betting with. But maybe that's why they're on tv and I'm not!

Can't wait for the new season to start!

In this rerun episode on the cruise I notice that when Jett and Howard were playing heads up Chip Jett often showed his losing hands to Howard, but Howard almost never showed his hands to Jett. Was Jett just trying to show Howard that he was getting lucky on the river? Is there a rule about showing your losing hands?

You have to choice to show or muck if you are not the person calling the bet, or first in position after check, and the end of the hand. Some will show the hand as an intimidation tactic. There's no rule against it, but personally, I find it sophomoric and cheap. I wouldn't do it at a table.

Re: hands, the only rule I know of is you don't talk about your cards or show your cards during play. This also applies if you fold and others are still playing--keep your mouth shut about what you would have had till the game is done.

My TiVo shows that there is a program called "World Poker Tour" on our local NBC affiliate next Sunday at 4:00. It's a two-hour program; anyone know what this might be? Unfortunately, I don't get the Travel Channel and haven't been able to catch any of the regular coverage.

From TVGuide.com (Sunday Feb 1, 4:00 pm on NBC):

World Poker Tour
Battle of Champions
The Battle of Champions at Bellagio in Las Vegas features the winners from the series' first season. Players include two-time Tour winners Gus Hansen and Howard Lederer, and 2003 WPT champion Alan Goehring.

That sounds like a good show. I just caught the Hollywood Home Game WPT which was not as interesting as the pro games. I thought the ask a pro card would be interesting, but it ended up being a little lame.

Anyway, what I don't get is how the announcers can sit in the same room and announce the hands. I always thought they were in another room. The players seemed to be able to hear them! How can that be when they are discussing the cards players have? Do they add commentary after the game as well as during the game?

So, I guess it is her lucky poker blouse.

Thanks, NovacScott. More Howard Lederer is always a good thing.

tea, I used to think the same thing. I think certain parts of the commentary are indeed "live". The other comments/strategy about what actual hands the players have I believe is dubbed in afterwards in editing.

I really enjoyed the Hollywood Home Game, much more so than Celebrity Poker Showdown. I think the WPT does a great poker broadcast, and they seemed to get celebrities that actually knew how to play the damned game this time around.

I was ROFL watching Fred Savage jump around like a chimp when he flopped a boat to double up. Aisha Tyler (who I normally love) was getting on my nerves by playing nearly every hand and getting lucky. Then she got petulant when her luck finally ran out. All in all, not her finest hour.

I was sorry that Jack Black was out so fast...he could have really brought some more entertainment (althought they did capture some priceless backstage moments- "I can't fucking believe Fred Savage is going to win this!" ).

Liked it, and am looking forward to the next installment. Definitely good enough to feed my TV poker jones until the WPT season starts up again.

Did anybody catch Jennifer Harman & Phil Hell-mouth on Anderson Cooper 360 last night? Too bad they didn't show Hell-mouth's Greatest Tantrums.

Did anyone else find Mimi Rodgers to be incredibly sexy during the Hollywood Home game? I found myself envying Fred Savage.

I'm not understanding this 'hollywood homegame' business, on their website it states there are several other games with celebs yet none have any air dates listed except for this first one. What gives?

I agree with everyone who says this is more fun to watch than Celebrity Poker Showdown. I think it's mainly because everyone seems to know how to play! Of the bunch, Mimi Rogers I think has the most experience, so it's not surprising that she won. I've seen some ads for the WPT Bellagio Championships in CardPlayer Magazine, and I remember seeing her name as one of the "celebrities" that were scheduled to appear. There were a couple other names (I recall Ming Na...MING NA? She plays poker?) also in that list, so I would guess that they are the celebrities that win these upcoming home games.

I disliked Fred Savages hooping, hollering, stomping his feet like a marching band, and basically acting like a stupid gorilla. I know that he plays at Hollywood Park ($3-6! Guess after The Wonder Years money is tight), so that's probably what he was referring to when he said he went to the casino to practice. I felt sorry for Aisha, and although she may have been petulant, she had a reason to be peeved. Anybody would have felt like that after watching Fred outdraw people time and time again.

On another note, anyone dislike the new graphics that WPT is using? It is much harder this year to read. Standing in my kitchen and looking at my widescreen tv, I have a lot of difficulty distinguishing between a spade or a club. They're not distinct enough, and they both kind of look like a triangle.

More Shana Hiatt! Looked mighty fine in her bust revealing outfit!

If I was Aisha, I'd be pissed too...but not because she got sucked out by that doofus, Fred Savage, but because no one likes a whooping, hollering sore winner. Ugh. I'm glad I won't have to see his face again. Hopefully his fiancee slapped him in the face after seeing his behavior. Either her or his mother.

As I posted in the other dearly departed thread, the graphics don't bother me as much as the strobing lights all over the place. Talk about ANNOYING! And the "money drop" at the end is dumb. Just put it on the damn table and keep playing poker, please. And the lack of a studio audience kind of hurts the ambiance of the setting.

Oh, and Ming Na was there because not only is she a regular dealer of poker IRL, but she was featured on the WPT Ladies Night show