From the Vessel discussion:

Honestly, I think it's just a lack of planning in the writers room. It's like the disparity between good Helen and bad Helen, or between Jason having no idea what his mother's doing but later having been in on it all along, or Isobel disappearing after killing Jane Seymour when we were never given any hint that that's what would happen.

If they want to reconcile the various Jerelles (Pod-El, Past-El, Cave-El, Fortress-El, Lion-El), I think they could do a little subtle retconning and explain that the problem is due to some earth-kryptonian technological software/hardware incompatibility. It's like trying to install Windows XP on a Commodore 64.

But in truth, I think they just won't address it at all. None of the characters have really reacted like Jor-El has wildly different personalities. They seem to accept everything as just more wacky Jerelle's hijinx.

I guarantee that line, or one very much like it, will be said. I see Lana crying yet smiling, sobbing to Lois/Clark/Chloe, about how even though Lex was a scary alien dictator, it was nice to finally be in an honest relationship. I can only hope whoever she's talking to responds by waving goodbye on their way out the door.

They need a season where Lana is genuinely alone. Show her her complaint about loneliness in Void was nothing.

Cyb I know this is usually your line but I think I just heard Lucy Lawless say "A wizard did it."

Goodbye "Smallville". Hello "Metropolis".

The way season 5 ended leaves a great opportunity if TPTB want to transition the series to make Clark Superman. They have pretty much gone as far as they can go with Clark in Smallville. He already is all he can be. Time to move forward. Next season could start 1 year later and follow an attempt by Chloe and others to free Clark from the Phantom Zone. They succeed in freeing him. He gets the suit and it takes the transformation into Superman for Clark to take on Zod and return Earth to the way it should be. In the end of the 2hr "Metropolis" premiere, Clark would be showing up for his first day at the Daily Planet.

I am so very confused about everything today. Blame the cold medicine. Damn allergies!

Re-post from the Vessel thread:

Going along with Wrighty's theory (because it's the only one that makes sense,) I think the "real" Jor-El might be in the Phantom Zone and is waiting to get Clark to help him spring them both. Maybe they'll have a father-son picnic and discuss the best ways to defeat an alien overlord.

ETA: WOW, I'm lazy.

Boobs (is it alright if I call you boobs? lol) I like it. A lot.


Clark in the phantom zone sees a figure approaching him. When he finally gets face to face with him Clark can see it's a man, who is crying...

Man (reaching out to touch his face, Clark backs up): Kal-el...

Clark: Who are you? And how do you know my name?

Man: I'm your father Clark. My name is Jerell.

Clark (confused): My father? How's that possible.

Man: Kal-el you don't know how I've wished to see you again. To talk to you. To hold you in my arms, one last time.

Clark: I have spoken to you. Many times. You told me to rule the Earth like a God among men.

Man: What? Kal-el, no I sent you to Earth to be a beacon of light for the humans.

Clark: But....the message?

Man: Kal-el I sent you no such message. When I sent you to Earth, I did so because I knew that you would be safe. I knew of the abilities that you would gain. I had visited the planet in the past. Humans are an interesting species. Some of their greatest strengths can also be their greates weaknesses. They are a good people Kal-el, they only lack the light to show the way. For this above all I sent them you.

Clark: If you haven't been speaking to me all this time, then who has?

Man: What has this voice said to you?

Clark: That I should rule the planet with force.

Man: That sounds like ZOD.

Clark: ZOD is who put me in the phantom zone. He had help from Brainiac.

Man (suddenly with a frightened look on his face): Kal-el they must be stopped. If you don't stop them, then they will destroy Earth just as they helped destroy Krypton. Come. We have to get you out of here. Perhaps together we can free you my son.

Clark: What about you?

Man: Unfortunately I can not leave. I've been trapped here so long that my body has degenerated to the point of uselessness. Come. We have much to talk about..

Annnnnndddddddddddddd scene..lol...see I explained the spirit crap and the Jerell inconsistincies.. Well I tried anyway..

If Jerelle is trapped in there, too, then he totally needs to be Peter Gallagher. Hey, Trev, if you see this, do you still have that manip with Peter-El and son?

I hear her a lot. I may need to be medicated for it.

Thinking of the backlash that Lana's getting on SDK's blog and possibly other sites, do you think it will affect the writing of the character? Like, will they meet in the writers room and go, "oh crap, we thought we could have her do anything and people would still find her totally perfect, but no!"? Because really, I don't see her as being any different in Vessel than she has been in a long time. She's just... more blatant? She's still on a pedestal, just a slightly lower one. Like, by an inch or two.

But will they scramble to put her back in her lofty position? I think that's where the HypnoHo "out" comes in. He tricked her into being with him, ergo none of her actions following that are her fault. They may even go further than that and try to say Lex manipulated her by giving her what she thought she wanted: "honesty." Except it turns out even his honesty was a lie! I see this as their way of rekindling the Clana, too, because she realizes Clark was right and at least he never tried to destroy civilization.

Personally, I think she needs to be knocked way, way further down, and have the other characters acknowledge it--and acknowledge her past behavior, too, instead of just pawning it all off on her relationship with Lex. But I could see the DOMOS panicking and backtracking with her ASAP.

Heee! Everyone just calls me "B" in real life. It's like the ultimate abbreviation: Just one letter.



Eww, Peter Gallagher! Since when is Jarnelle just a set of eyebrows?

I once saw Anthony Hopkins do a Brando impression (on some talk show, promoting that "Fastest Indian" movie,) and it was really quite good. I knew then and there that if they ever need a new Jor-El, he should totally do it. (But good luck getting the cash to bring him on Smallville - HA!)



Viola pretty much asked the same thing, and I responded that I don't think AlMiles will allow fan reaction to sway them in the least. We've been complaining for years, why should they let it affect their judgement now? And honestly, I gotta say that if I were the writer/creator of a show, I'd appreciate fan input, but I still would do my own thing. It's their show. Let them screw it up on their own. As long as I'm not paying a subscription to watch it (still bitter about Deadwood, grr,) then I'll watch it, I guess. (I lie -- I'll TiVo it and skip through the commercials.)

But he's also a set of full pouty lips and wavy black hair! Sure, his eyebrows are out of control, but take young Joe-El from Relic, add on about 25 years, and voila! Plus, I bet he's bargain priced. The OC aside, no one's knocking down his door to make a Summer Lovers sequel.

The first conversation Jerelle would need to have with Clark, though, is this: "Son, didn't you ever wonder why in 1961 I sounded American, and in 2003 I sounded British?"

Yeow.



"Why, Daddy, I just assumed the effect of the Earth's sun broadens your dialect!"

Maybe Kryptonians develop a British accent as they age....then by the time Clark's in his fifties, he'll sound like the Geico gecko.

brought over from the blog thread:





Muah, Durq has stumbled onto my real purpose for bringing up the topic: bitchfights. We can't expect Chloe to tell Lana off, but maybe Helen would. I'd imagine if Lex pulled some strings and got her declared dead, it'd be pretty hilarious if she showed back up and moved right in to the castle again. Too bad the actress who plays Helen is on some other show.

I can still dream about a Lexified Knock-Down Drag-Out Chick Brawl, though.

*sigh*

Excellent, wrighty, but how to explain that Clark's first memory (from the dreaded Memoria) featured the voice of what you explain to be Zod? Don't tell me Lara was stepping out on Jerelle!

Of course she was. It gives TPTB another chance to rip off Star Wars.

Clark: You destroyed Krypton. You killed my father.

Zex: Luke, er, Clark, I am your father.

Clark: Noooooooo!

The problem with Return Of Helen would be that it would set up the opportunity for Lex and Lana to engage in the Dead Fisheyed Stare of Mutual Can't Be Together Angst, and I think we've had enough of that, don't you?

Damn you, suzycat. I was just about to agree that a Return of Helen (my personal favorite) would be wicked awesome and then you have to go and drudge up my worst nightmare: "Dead Fisheyed Stare of Mutual Can't Be Together Angst". Oh my eyes! Krusty! They burn!

I'm hoping that Zex really isn't Zod. I want him to have his own body and as someone mentioned in another thread, I don't want this to be the reason Lex becomes "evil". I wouldn't mind of Zod's presence outside of Lex's body, contributes to his turn of evil. I can even see that Zod looking upon Lex as the only human worth his time because of his potential for relentless and ruthless evil. Maybe if for no other reason than to use Lex to his own ends. But the more I think about the finale the less I like this whole "body-snatching" Zod.

I am so going to forever picture Zod now as a celebrity personality downloaded from the Internet and loaded onto a blank robot.

"Oh, Lana! I love you more than the moon, and the stars, and the *POETIC IMAGE NUMBER 37 NOT FOUND*"

Either that or "THIS ALIEN DICTATOR IS A BANDWIDTH-THIEF!"

Maybe Clark will discover the secret to beating Zod is to drink 100 cups of coffee.

My spec is that the voice of Jor-El is really the Eradicator. And it wants Clark to create a new Krypton on Earth. We might find that out in the season 6 premiere.

In the season 6 premiere, BatChica, Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg will converge on Metropolis to try to stop Zod. Zod will have somehow released the Disciples of Zod. BatChica, Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg will fight them. In the meantime Chloe and Lion-El will search for ways to get Clark out of the Phantom Zone. Clark will get out of the Phantom Zone, and he and the Smallville Justice League will proceed to kick the shit out of Zod and his disciples. And in the end Lana will bitch out Clark for beating the crap out of her boyfriend. I'm hoping that it does happen, with the exception of Clark being bitched out, for kicking the crap out of Zod.

In season 6, we'll see Kara. This time it won't be a fake one. Yeah I'm guessing that AlMiles will somehow get the rights from DC to put Supergirl in an episode.

I hope nobody already posted this thought... but...

Now that Mercy Reef is toast, do you think they'll bring BatChica back for two episodes in the middle of the season and kill her off, making Clark mope for two minutes before promptly forgetting she existed the following week?

I have looked in my crystal ball, and I don't see BatChica and Clark getting involved and having a secret marriage. But it would be nice if she made a reappearance. If Ryan can show up a second time, why not CyborgDude and BatChica? (I liked both of them more than Bart, but that's just my personal preference.)

Actually, I wonder if they'll try to do another Aquaman episode, now that Mercy Reef wasn't picked up. It might be interesting, seeing as they set him up with Lois originally and that would put another little love triangle into the show, which they seem to be fond of.

Wait, I don't think Aquadude is completely dead yet....gotta find that link...
I'll edit when I find it...
Aquadude may have midseason chance??

There. I knew I saw it someplace.

Yeah SDK answered mine too..but I wasn't sure if he was making fun of me or not. Oh well.

SDK answered my question. I really wish I had added "aside from Bruce Wayne" when I asked what DC characters he had on his wishlist. Of course he wants Bruce Wayne. Everyone wants that.

Well SDK addressed my question, though he avoided answering a large part of it, which was whether they actually liked writing for Clark. But sadly, he more or less confirmed that they are commited to the "He must suffer to be a hero" school of writing. Bah, whatever.

Nice of him to answer though.

He answered mine concerning why Zex didn't throw Lana off the roof, as well. The Lex feelings affecting Zod seems to be the most likely answer (enen if i don't particularly like it). He didn't answer if people will actually call Lana on all her crap, though. :(

Seemed to me that one was just a kind of made-up-on-the-spot (afterall, he didn't write the ep) answer. The real answer being that it was "dramatic" and they can't kill one of the leads. But that was just my impression and my cynicism may be shining through.

It was great of him to stop by and answer even this many questions but it was all very general, definitely. I was almost expecting that Zexana answer infact, about part of Lex still being there and whatnot. Lol.

I was hoping it would turn out that Lex's spirit has taken Zod's place in the PZ, giving the spirits of Clark and Lex some quality time alone together to figure a way out. Let 'em bitch and fight and make it all right with a little spiritual bonding. ;] The power of Clex United can surely explode Any television screen.

I'd like to see the Interior of the Zone as an actual place, a kind of abstract limbo where prisoners can converse with each other and get occasional glimpses into the real world but not interact with it. Lex could watch Zod using Lana like a rag, for example. (Zod demonstrating how real supervillains do it...)

There was some talk of this exile having an actual lasting effect on Clark. I'm thinking that Months, even Years or Decades could go by, in subjective time. Given that much time to do not much else but think and examine one's life could propel him into a growth spurt.

If there Are other prisoners, maybe Clark could meet one of his ancestors who got put away for being too keen on Red Kryptonite, hahah. Nah. But, Seriously -- getting away from the probably futile hope of a Clex-centered character study -- I was thinking that Clark should get to meet an ancestor in the Zone, someone who could tell him what it was Really like on Krypton and maybe even fill in the mystery about their visits to Earth over the centuries. What were they up to here?

Heheh, yeah. Upon reaching cup 100, he'll be like, "Of Course... It all makes sense now! Hats go on the Head, and Zod's going back to prison. But I'll need your help, Lex."

Yeah, the whole "Zod just saw that she was hot/Lex's feelings spilled over" made me go "ew".

The one thing I really want is for Clark to start showing some compassion towards Lex and sorrow for the good man he could have been. I'm sick of this "oh, Lex is just innately bad" crap, especially since it seems to have come out of nowhere.

They've even got Lionel talking that way now, as if Lex was born evil.

To be fair, Lionel did put a lot of blame on the way Lex was brought up. Which was funny. And tragic.

Well, to be fair, we don't know that Lex wasn't born with the mark of the beast on his ass.

If this is true, it would explain why Clark always thought Lex was evil.

Trevacious Guy, that's interesting. Maybe they will do that. I can totally see Time passing at a different rate in the PZ than it does on Earth. I've been thinking of the prison too and how he looks all squished in there, but that can't be, so yes, it'd be neat to see inside of it. SDK spoke about budget in a few of his replies, and it sounds like they'd like to do a lot of cool things, but budget-wise, they can't. Hopefully this won't be the case with the PZ, but if Clark is only there for a brief while, it might be. Let's think positive though. Yay!


So much word, suzycat. I think that would be a very understandable reaction from Clark; I also don't like how they write it as if Lex is too far gone. W/ most everyone, even Lionel, saying he's dangerous and evil and has only awful plans in mind. They even had himself say in "Vessel" say that Clark wanted to save him, almost as if Lex didn't think he could be. I want Lex to remember that he has it in him to be a good man too. In "Oracle", at least he got to say that he was the good guy in all of this, and when I look at it, what he tried to do after finding out Fine's true nature, he did try to do what was right, to give humanity a fighting chance. I hope they don't have Lex forget all of this. I do think Lana will play a role in that, as she's the only person who seems to believe in him still. :(


Hi, holtz. Re: the second part of your question, I'm sorry it wasn't answered. The first part though, it made me happy: when he said Lex's feelings could be the reason why Zod kissed Lana. It made me hopeful; that he was still there somehow and maybe Lana was able to reach him. Someone can reach him, and I imagine it could/would be her.

It's just when Zod said, "Lex is dead", it jolted me. I knew that Lex wasn't dead, but just hearing that and it being "Lex" who said it, I was like, "wha-?". So the idea that he might still be there, and maybe even to the degree that his feelings for Lana would show, I was happy at the possibility. Also, shippery, *lol*, but I remember SDK's reply to wrighty earlier, about how maybe love could bring Lex back from the brink. Maybe that's what we see sorta here? One of my favorite scenes is in "Commencement" when he's searching through her purse for the stones, only to snap out of it when she accuses him of caring more for the stones than her. The way her words pulled him back, and what he said to her afterwards before they parted - I loved it; so romantic how he had to let her know how he felt.

I'm going to hang onto this until S6 - thanks. The hope that it's Lex's feelings for Lana we saw. Trevacious Guy, I think your idea of Lex's spirit being taken to the PZ with Clark is awesome too though. Maybe it can be both, w/ Lex's spirit being taken away, but Zod retaining his memories, his feelings, all that he is, and so still, it's Lex who kisses Lana, not Zod.

Oh I wish I asked this: "Where's Lex?", because really, it stunned me when he said, "Lex is dead". *sniff* I don't think SDK could have told us though.

ETA:

Also, thinking of this, I really hope they have Lana see that Lex wasn't/isn't himself. If she is to bring him back, I imagine she'll have to first be convinced that that isn't him. I think back on "Commencement" when he tells her, "Your safety is more important than any of this". To Lex, Lana being safe would be a top concern and for him to just be waiting for her on the rooftop? No way. He'd be out there looking for her and once he found her, he'd take her out of there, out of danger, maybe even with him staying behind. This based on so many other scenes/moments we've gotten with them. Even at the beginning of "Vessel", him telling her to stay where she was, him yelling at Fine to leave her alone. So I hope after a while (like in the first five minutes of the premiere, *g*), maybe she recognizes some of his behavior as being not-Lex and then tries to reach Real!Lex.

Okay, Clark has never said Lex is innately bad. Lex is bad because of the choices he has made, and the actions he has taken. I want him to be held accountable for them by the people around him (but not to the extent that he's imprisoned, of course, because he's the big bad, and needs to be threatening and somewhat successful)

Thank you. Seriously, he's attested to just the opposite through word (repeatedly in just the past episode too) and deed throughout all the seasons. Hell, Post-Mortal he was defending Lex in class and then ran after Fine again after class and defended him, so much that Fine could peg him as "friends" with Lex. Aquadude, because of Clark's defense of Lex and need to talk to him first, pegged them as buddies because of that faith/consideration. There's a difference between being understandably exasperated with someone that repeatedly gambles with the very lives of your loved ones b/c of personal obession, and just blithely trashing them. In spite of everything, you see Clark caring about him and the direction his life is going, looking genuinely hurt that after he'd defended him to Fine Lex is proving Fine right and saying that Clark doesn't understand the "grey" areas in life (Thirst, last clex scene.)



I think they have enough people holding him accountable; what I do want to see is Lex owning what he does unapologetically. Because nothing irks me more than ethical bankruptcy while making excuses and shifting agency onto other people when you're intelligent and in full control of your choices. I want him to be competent, owning his choices, but at the same time Clark continuing to care for him and trying to reach out from time to time (even while not blaming himself and saying it's about "willpower"). Because as Clark said in Vessel, there is in fact "a part of Lex that can fight this."

And this just shows how truly forgiving Clark is. After that stunt Lex pulled in Mortal, I wouldn't have defended Lex on anything if my life depended on it. I'm glad Clark (in a way) showed his frustration in Vessel by saying what has happened to Lex because of getting involved with Fine was Lex's fault. I'm tired of Clark always blaming himself for things that aren't his fault.

Hmm. I'm thinking they might throw us a bone and have MM in lurve with Chloe, so he breaks up the Chlark and sends Clark running into Lois's arms.

Of course, that leaves out Lana. Maybe he's Lana's lab partner in astronomy class.

booberella, I actually think you might have something there with MM being used to break up the Chlark, or somebody coming on and being used to break up the Chlark, but not for the reason of pushing Clark towards Lois. I just don't know if they are going to want to do that yet since they can't actually do Clois.

This whole topic is just going to wind up sending me back into the bitterness thread, and I have other stuff I should be doing.

Yeah, I should've specified that in the event they can do Clois, the way to make it so it's not a Chlarkois triangle would be to have some other superdude sweep Chloe off her feet. What better way to make Clark even mopier than have all his girlfriends leading up to Lois leave him for friends of his?



All right... Martian Manhunter breaks up the Chlark... by seducing Clark... leaving Chloe broken-hearted. That's plan B if they don't get permission to start Clois (which I don't want them to do just because... ugh. We all know he ends up with her. Let him get his heart stomped on a few times so he really appreciates Lois when she comes along. After the brain wipe and recalibration as "Iconic!", that is.)

But don't you think they would rather just leave Chloe broken hearted, for the 500th time?

forget it

No offense, viola1 , but if Lana is the one who brings Lex back, expells Zod and saves the world, the Shark has not mearly been jumped for me - it has been killed, cut up, cook into a pie by Mama Kent, and eaten by Clark.



I think that breaking Chloe's heart is part of the show Bible. Right before "Everyone worships Lana", right after "Pete who?"

No, RepairmanBob, I didn't say that Lana would expel Zod and save the world. I don't think that would happen either, and I was speaking specifically in regards to Lex. Why did Zod kiss Lana? I would hope that it is because there's Lex in there; that his feelings as SDK said, may have come through, and if so, I think that might mean Lana could reach Lex.

For me, I didn't like the idea of Lex being gone and so for there to be some hint that he was still there, I need to hang onto it. I didn't really think of Lana defeating Zod. In the "Vessel" thread, my hope was that Clark would return and everyone would work together, meaning that Chloe was safe and Clark was back. I never would imagine Lana being able to do this on her own, but given that she is the one who can get near Zod/Lex, I could certainly see her being part of a plan.

But I'm not sure what will happen. I know that it didn't make much sense to anyone that Zod kissed Lana, and so the idea that it was in fact Lex who did - that does make sense to me and gives me hope.

I will totally laugh if Lana never finds out that Lex was taken over by Zod. Because Clark knows, and it's highly likely that Chloe and Lionel will know, and it would just be hilarious if she was the only one who doesn't know. Bwah!

Also, I don't think they'd do full-blown Clois even if they could. It would just bring back the whole "Can I tell her my secret?" thing.

Yeah, make it sort of like coming home from the Nam. Clark could use the self-reflection and depth-making contemplation.



Martha will also find out, right? (Martha, Lionel, Clark and Chloe are sort of becoming like a "mommy/daddy/bf/gf" Scooby deal). But that would also mean that Lex wouldn't know, right? I'm fine with Lana being in the dark forever, but Lex needs to have a good amount of remembrance of this whole event, if not total recall.

Well, I'm of the opinion that Lex learned about the plan to host Zod in the spaceship (in the scene with Fine that was ultimately cut from the episode), and actually knew what was happening in the barn scene with Clark. It's the only way I can wank some of the big holes left in Vessel--How Lex knew he'd be on the Luthor Tower roof that night, why he smiled evily when Clark couldn't kill him, etc. So while I'm guessing they'll wipe out his knowledge of Clark's powers, I'm hopeful that he'll at least know that Fine used him to host Zod.

I really have no clue about Martha. I'm kind of hoping that she suspects Lionel set her up in the plane, because otherwise the whole "Mistakes on a Plane" thing was pointless.

The roof thing is a bit "fortunate" but I think the smile when Clark couldn't kill him has a lot less to do with Zod and a lot more to do with five years' worth of what Lex sees as betrayal and deceit.

That's how I viewed it. As for the roof thing, I think Zod was just mysteriously drawn there by his new squirrelly destiny. Like Lana knew last year, for no reason, that the Ceremonial Killamajig (AKA the silver Gay Stone of Knowledge) was meant for Clark, Zod will just know that he was meant to be on that rooftop.

I will, too. And I think that may be how it goes. I don't think Zod will be out for blatant destruction, because that's just expensive for the producers. Blown up buildings and rubble and CGI fires everywhere while the city crumbles to the strains of P.O.D. would get pricey. So I'm leaning toward Zod trying to be a bit more subtle. I think he'll masquerade as Lex and miraculously cure the computer viruses, thus restoring peace to the world and becoming a savior in the eyes of the masses. Lana will clutch her hands together, bat her Precious Moments eyes at him, and murmur "my hero!" Meanwhile, he's secretly inserting subliminal messages into porn and popup ads, and raising the price of gasoline!

To further speculate, I think Lana will know to some degree that it's Clark who somehow takes away Lex's new powers. She won't know that he also exorcised an evil alien overlord. She'll just know that he took away her new super boyfriend and replaced him with a normal one--one who doesn't make her feel nearly as special. And she will be pissed and continue to make pissy noises at Clark until sometime down the road she finds out some other Secret Evil thing about Lex, and goes running back to the BDA for help.

Bastard! How dare he mess with the porn. But raising the price of gasoline would be really ingenius because it's so evil, but nobody would really notice anything unusual.

Which is funny, because Zod never struck me as subtle. He was arrogant, sophisticated, and seemed cultured, but he always seemed to me to be one who would opt for sending out his lackeys to inflict swift and heavy brutality to get his way rather than think up overly elaborate and self-foiling Kryptonian plans.