In case you've forgotten the CW's "Crimson" poster, it read: The legendary love affair begins tonight. And that was 1. mind-whammied, and 2. led to absolutely nothing... besides being quite a while ago now.

So, yeah. I'll believe it starts when I see it.

Promotional pictures for season 8. Don't get too excited. It's just Sam and the Justice kids from Odyssey, and really only the Sam ones are new. Sam's so pretty!

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CW Source interview with Cassidy Freeman.

You know the drill... Funny, beautiful, supercool, yadda, yadda, yadda.

I love Cassidy.

Also, did she pretty much confirm that Regan will be back? She said it was "more complicated" so...

I'm more excited for Tess vs. Regan than I am about anything else right now.

Also, while we're on the topic of people I love... I love Sam.

Why is anyone else on this show again? Oh, yeah. Lois and Clark, legendary love. Got it. Riiight.

So every promo this whole season will be about the legendary!ICONIC!Clois (gag) love-man-woman-whorishness? Don't we have other characters in this show at all? I am so tired of the stupid Clois ICONIC BS they keep throwing in every promo and I am sure the Director's cut will be about Clois also. What crap!

CW promo monkeys are like a dog with a bone. In Veronica Mars season 3 every promo was like, "Logan and Veronica are having problems!" You would have no idea it was a mystery show.

I'd like to see Chloe through a plotline where she misses the knowledge. She, like Lex, has always been a character driven by her curiosity and desire for information. She is now some sort of intergalactic intersect. What happens when all that information disappears? I think she'd feel a yearning for it, like something's missing inside of her.

But that's for a show that cares about characters. Get ready for Chloe Olsen!

Yip. I thought of something similar to this: I wanted to see at the wedding that she feels and expresses to someone a sense of...loss. Like something deep inside her has been ripped away, and she has a yearning to fill the hollowness inside. Then I want her to say that the marriage feels wrong because of it.

Then I want Chloe's arc for the 2nd half of the season to be about reconstructing everything that was taken from her. Literally and figuratively.

But as you say, that's for a show that cares about characters. And that's if they have the right name. Heck, even if they do have the right name, tptb *still* don't care.

I'm getting a stronger and stronger feeling that Committed is going to have Chloe, on a lie detector machine, tell Jimmy that she does not love Clark and with that, the retcon will be complete. We know as of last year that she loves Clark, even if it was only supposed to be as a friend, but I just have this feeling in my gut she and Jimmy are going to come out of this episode "Committed" to each other.

If I could bring myself to care I would then wonder if this is supposed to be a clear sign that Brainiac is controlling her, but right now the level of dread I feel about Thursday night is making any speculation about future episodes near to impossible.

I really don't know what will happen in the episode, but having Chloe not love Clark would be the clear next step in PiSSS's (PS3 is pissing me off too often these days, I think their name should reflect that) plan to push Clois and crush Chlark.

You know, I'm hanging on to a tiny shred of hope that comes from the OD: "CHLOE TELLS JIMMY HOW SHE FEELS ABOUT CLARK" and "The abductor asks Chloe if she is in love with anyone else." Instinct made me want to trow things at my screen, and I almost did, but my poor screen is new and I didn't want to break it. Some expletives were heard in my house, though.

Now, I'm totally torn.

I still see how they can turn things around in Committed and come out and say that these people are all in MAJOR denial, and so explain the clusterfuck of Instinct. If it takes a freaking lie detector for us to be sure of what people say, bring it! We need it, because nothing else makes sense. I need to hear some truth. And if the truth is ICONIC! and LEGENDARY!, I'm out of the building. Sorry, it's too insulting. But I can see where in "Committed" things can turn around. I see the elements for it in the plot. They just need to go ahead and do it.

So, what I expect: Chloe says she loves someone else or that she loves Clark. Either way, I know who she's talking about (Davis doesn't count! Too soon). I don't need it spelled out for me, but it would be nice. Jimmy loves Chloe (boring and predictable) and is his typical whiny self. Clark doesn't love Nois, but I would love to hear that he loves someone else and we can all fight over who he's talking about (Chloe or Lana). Nois loves Clark. Yes, I expect it. But I also expect resolution to that. I expect a talk between them latter, where it's decided that he doesn't love her that way (if they add the "at least, not yet", I'm hunting you down PS3!!), and she teases him about Chloe and the fact that they would make a great couple. To give support to that, I think she's going to see Chloe answering to Jimmy about "someone else" and realise that it's Clark and that her cousin is settling for Jimmy. Chimmy can break or be still engaged but at odds (or they're "happy", but not really. You know, typical SV: "Of course I love you too and I want to marry you". Cue hug and weird facial expressions that tell us a different story). And Nois will have subsequent talks to Chloe about it, saying: "Chloe, are you sure about this? I mean, Jimmy? Really?" and I really hope that she doesn't drop the subject with Clark.

That would make up for some of Instinct and set things back on track, but with the reboot we're seeing right now and the way they treated the Fever Letter, who knows? All I know, is Committed is DVR worthy and I'm only watching after reading the comments from people that watched it. And if it's bad and not worth my time, I'm deleting it from existence, and maybe checking back next year.

It's Instict that is making think that Chloe tells Jimmy how she feels about Clark is just a big tease and the answer is....just a friend. I'm retaining enough hope to tape Smallville this Thursday, but I don't know if I can take watching it without some prior reassurance and the Clois promos are not reassuring in the least.

The problem with this is how do we know it's Chloe. Chloe is infected by Brainaic who is a highly intelligent machine who can easily manipulate the lie detector test. Just as much as he needs to separate Chloe from Clark, he needs to keep her still attached to Jimmy.

I agree. They established in the first episode that Chloe is infected by Brainiac, then plainly stated in dozens of interviews and had Clark pinpoint it by Episode 2; they didn't leave it to spec at all. I feel like they did this so that her odd behavior could be explained. They stated before the season started that Chloe will always love Clark, and showed us this at least as recently as Traveler (even though I would argue Apocalypse and Arctic) that she does.

A retcon is definitely possible, but it won't even match up with *this* season. Their scenes in Odyssey and Plastique were classic Chlark-- even her "I didn't want to tell you I was engaged" conversation. But it's been a few weeks and we've seen both Clark's huge "WTF, Chloe?" concern and determination to fix it, counterpointed by Chloe's "It ain't no thang" attitude. I think since they keep highlighting Brainiac's presence, I'm supposed to conclude that her behavior is being affected, not that they're retconning her. If Chloe does indeed say she's over Clark in Committed, I expect (desperately hope for?) something to highlight that Brainiac was in control, like the surprise Bizarro reveal in Gemini.

Chloe showed her abilities to Clark.I doubt that Brainiac would allow that if he's really controlling her.I just don't agree with the idea that he's able to manipulate Chloe's emotions.

We know Brainiac loves electrical energy, he would make Chloe lie about anything. But of course, a self lie won't make Chloe shock herself. Who knows, maybe Brainaic would alter the machine in a way where every answer Jimmy gives is a lie.


He's infiltrated her brain, so it's not much of a stretch that he can effect her emotions.

My problem, like I've said before, is that we're going to be Lion-elled again. The Brainiac part of the equation is going to make any and all of Chloe's reactions ambiguous at best and, going by the way this show has handled things in the past, we're never going to get an answer of what during the infection was real and what was influenced.

If Chloe will indeed say that she doesn't love Clark and it will be the truth according to the lie detector then I will be totally convinced that Brainiac is completely controlling her and I won't care what the stupid show tells me. Chloe has loved and always will love Clark. That is one of her most inherent characteristics. If she doesn't then it is not Chloe. Not to me, anyway.

Haven't PS3 said continually that Chloe will always love Clark. So, are they actually going to pretend her love for him was never there? That they just never said it themselves!

I'll despise PS3 forever if that is what happens in "Committed." I already hate them after the crap-fest that was "Instinct." But please, they can't take her love for Clark away...it's just plain cruel..

Although, thinking it's Chloiac does help a bit...

We totally are. I doubt it'll ever be specified exactly what was Brainiac and what was Chloe, no matter how this whole arc ends. It'll be left ambiguous. As always.

Moved it to spoiler thread.

So is Lois really going to move out of the Talon? And if so where is she going to live, an apartment above the Ace of Clubs?

LOL. That would be hilarious.

I bet she moves out and we never see her new place (they don't have a set for it, right?). I'm still trying to figure out how they were planning on fitting Chloe, Lois, and Jimmy in a one bedroom apartment.

So, who is "X"?

I would say that it would be too freakin' ridiculously obvious to have "X" turn out to be Lex, but knowing this show (and that fact that MR is supposed to come back for a couple of episodes this season) I'm pretty certain that's exactly who "X" is.

Anybody agree/disagree?

They had a "Jimmy's loft" set in the Apocalypse AU. Whether the set still exists and if it does whether they would move Lois into it I don't know. But if they do I hope it's above the Ace of Clubs.
If MR comes back Lex is X. If MR doesn't... I hope they have a backup plan.

My theory is Chloiac. Lex doesn't make any sense to me, seeing as how he knows nothing of that particular crystal and I don't see any reason he'd keep it from Tess.

There are very few X subjects and only Chloiac really makes sense.

Lex- why would he give it back to her? Martian Manhunter- why would he give it back to her? Davis- even if he is related to Krypton, why would he play the game with her? Doomsday Monster probably doesn't even know how to e-mail, or use a camera or Powerpoint. I don't know who else would possibly fall under possible suspects.

We don't know how much power Chloiac has over Chloe. Also, we know Chloe doesn't have a lot of resources. If Brainiac can lead Tess towards learning about the Fortress and the Arctic, then she'd be in the best position to recreate the Fortress back in North Pole, Greenland (where Lex went missing) and, from there, release Zod.

And I don't see a reason why Chloiac would message Tess about it.Given all the latest buzz from the media it makes sense that X is Lex imo.

Because she has the resources to get back to the Arctic, recreate the Fortress and bring back Zod.

I'm sure if Lex has the resources to stay in hiding, he could probably recreate the Fortress again himself with the Crystal.

Pretty much. Control over the Fortress is the end game, I think.


Not only that, there's nothing to indicate that Lex would even know the crystal has anything to do with the Fortress. As far as he'd be concerned, the Fortress is gone and this could just be a remnant of it left over. I also don't see why Lex would keep himself hidden from the person he's trusting to run his corporation and use most of those resources to find him. Tess would just be wasting time if Lex were still around, alive and aware of what she's up to.

Word to both of you. Brainiac has one plan: to bring back Zod.

I don't think he would have any way of knowing that the crystal had anything to do with the creation of FoS either. The only possible thing I could think of if Lex is X is that he's aware Clark survived and is trying to prepare Tess for the fight with the aliens, since he would probably have access to the LuthorCorp files that say the crystal is a supercomputer.

But then I come back to why he'd stay in hiding. X being Lex makes no sense on so many levels.

I really think it's Chloiac.

It's lame, but X could be Dr. Groehl. He was the one trying to convince Tess of it's extraterrestrial origins and she was doing a lot of scoffing. Maybe he went back into hiding with his new prize. I have a feeling once he blasted a hole in Lex's mansion that he wasn't going to get many more chances to tinker with the crystal.

Oh, and why was the crystal blue? I remember it being very clear and crystineline when Clark played quarterback with it the first time around and now it was a deep blue. Is my memory that faulty?

The best reason I can think would be so Tess thinks it's Lex and throws her off track.

I noticed that, too. I'm going to fanwank that the reason is because it's Hal 2.0. The original version was clear, but the next version (formed when the FoS collapsed in on itself) is blue, just to let Kryptonians know what version it is. Maybe it's easier than etching "Crazed AI version 2.0" on the stone.

Or possibly someone in the props department just thought it was prettier this way.

If Tess thinks it is Lex does that mean she is less likely to keep looking for the crystal?



I vote for umber next time around. Why? 'Cause it's fun to say umber.

Puce! Chartreuse! The possibilities are endless!

Seriously, I *do* wonder if it's meant to suggest it's a slightly different version. If so, that would be an easy way for them to fix Jor-El, which IMHO they badly need to do. While they're revamping everything, I wish they'd take fifteen or twenty seconds to correct Jor-El into a less murderous entity. That's one thing on this show that actually NEEDED fixing.

Well, less likely to look at Isis.

Less likely to look at Isis and at Chloe (the email came after Tess suspected Chloe), but just as likely to keep looking, IMO. It's misdirection and manipulation, which is Brainiac's big thing. "You're not ready yet" sets up that Tess has to do something to be ready, and Brainiac could string her along in that way, setting up whatever needs to be done for his ultimate endpoint.

That's basically what I fankwanked as well. And I vote chartreuse for the next psycho AI crystal, because, like umber, it is fun to say. :)

But hasn't that ship sailed? Zod's spirit isn't in the Zone anymore. It's in the crystal Raya gave Clark. Or destroyed. They never were too clear on that. So rebuilding the Fortress isn't going to help Brainiac at all.

Is his mission even to still rescue Zod? Because he hasn't mentioned him since he came back? I thought he wanted to recreate Krypton on Earth? Or maybe he hasn't been specific... What DOES Brainiac want now?

Besides Chloe's BRrrraaaaaaiiins that is?

Even if it has, I think Brainiac would consider controlling the Fortress a pretty damn good consolation prize.

I'm not sure what happened to Zod. It never was made clear. But even if not Zod, recently, it seems like Brainiac wants Breedin'.

I agree. There's a whole lot of secrets and power hidden among ice dildos. Who knows what else he can use.

As for the different crystal colors- I'm going to say: they just don't care.

Well, just to be clear, I think this is the correct answer. That said, I'll offer a theory:

Blue like BlueK, fake hero ring that robbed Clark of his powers, Blue K bracelet used to kill the imposter Biz. Also fits with crappy plastic ring with Blue stone. Sooo...Blue is the new fake out color... Dun dun dun! So like it will be the WRONG FOS, like a Bizarro version, maybe a Brainiac or Zor El trap.

Yeah, who cares.

So I thought Brainiac's programming was to release Zod and recreate Krypton on Earth for Zod. Brainiac is a computer, albeit one with a personality; I just figured he would keep at his goal until it was completed.



I guess I just kind of figured that the crystal Raya gave Clark was linked somehow to the FoS. I'm pretty sure I made that up, but Zod had to go somewhere once he was sucked into the crystal.

And whatever happened to that crystal? Too many crystals!

oops, double post... nothing to see here...

The crystal shattered when the Wraith went through it, in Phantom.

See this is where I'm confused. Talking about the promo photos, we see Clark screaming, presumably in pain, so we know he gets shocked. If Lois gets asked, "Do you love this man?" we've got two scenarios:

She says "Yes" because she's trying to maintain cover. It can't be the truth cos then Clark wouldn't get shocked. It must be a lie, then.
She says "No" because she thinks it's the truth and she'd rather tell the truth presumably saving Clark from the shock, than blow the cover. However, since she unknowingly does love him, due to their ICONIC BOND, he gets shocked anyway?

That's the big ICONIC love confession? "No, I don't love him, but the lie detector says I do?" Like many things, what a funny way of starting their relationship.

See, this episode is so fucked up already.

What we know:

Lie detector test, One lies, the other gets shocked

Lois confesses her feelings

We know Clark does get shocked in the episode.

When asked, "Do you love this man?"

She'll either say yes, or no.

If Yes, and Clark's OK, means she does love him

What kind of Love though? Relationship love, or family love? This will be left to interpretation IMHO. Or could it be her keeping the cover true?

If Clark gets shocked, well she rather keep the cover then be honest.

If she answers No, and Clark does not get shocked means she doesn't love him.

No closeness between Lois.

If No and Clark screams, then it means she does care, yet there is a negative effect.

If she does love him, but lies, she must not love him that much that would mean she would do everything to protect him. Making it not love but lust.

So really this episode is fucked up.

Either Lois; Loves Clark romantically, Love him like a brother, Lusts for him, or Doen't love him at all.

Basically when asked that question, She must say Yes, Clark must be ok, and explain what she means on how she loves him.

If anyway else, it's an Anti-Clois anvil IMHO.

As for Clark, he's already screwed of ever being at the Morality level of Iconic Superman so, I just hope he's honest.

And we get another anvil from a questionable source. If Nois believes she doesn't love him (and believes she's telling the truth) why is Clark zapped? Does the machine sense the ICONIC! BOND these two share regardless of whether they are aware of it or not much like the psycho-alien killer? Man, talk about a forced relationship. No, Clark, you can't smother her with a pillow. The cosmos tells you you have to be together. It's FATE!!!!! What lousy storytelling.

I totally agree with this. And on a more practical level, Michael Rosenbaum has expressed a willingness to guest star as Lex in future episodes, while I at least have not heard anything about James Marsters returning as Brainiac. So, from that perspective it's also more likely that "X" is actually Lex. I agree that having "X" be Lex will be pretty lame based on what we know so far (including what previous posters have pointed out). But practically speaking, I think it makes the most sense.

Do you have a link to an interview where he said this? Last I heard, he was big on the "no" to guest starring. At one con, he said he might if they could find a workable bald cap, but every other time he's been asked about it that I recall, he's said he was done (including in a really recent Young Hollywood interview).

Lie detector test aside, I really hate the idea that they are in any way pimping Clois "love" at this point. Despite ED in interviews and maxima's "bond" talk, it is five episodes in. They've only been spending a good deal of time around each other for a matter of weeks. For there to be actual love at this point is ridiculous. Even if I could stand the Clois, I'm pretty sure this would feel rushed to me. Some attraction? Fine. Mutual respect forming? Could even tolerate that. For them to to pimp "do you love this man?" at this stage is just silly. There shouldn't even be a question of love. They're actually only just getting to know each other. I might have bought it (though I still wouldn't like it) if they'd had them spend more time together in the last two seasons. But up until Siren, Lois still seemed to barely tolerate Clark.

Eh, forget it. It's all been said. I just don't like it.

No one likes it and it feels beyond forced. Lois's arc of pining for Clark looked ridiculous when all they had was the sides for her and Doomtender back in May. I thought with AM back in the Doomsday arc, tehy'd drop this nonsensical Lois loves Clark crap especially with JH and the GA returning. However, it's just more forced than before. One week she's eying him in a suit like he's a model (snerk) but she's seen him naked before. Next week crying over Ollie then the following two it's deep jealousy for CLARK and a true love confession. Is she bipolar or an I love you slut?