That idea is interesting Chiri but I think that having Chloe getting her first stalker is too disturbing because it means they are indeed turning her into Lana 2.0 and no one wants that.



And with that Doomsday would become my most favorite character of S8. Go Chloom!

That's an interesting idea. So I got to thinking, what if the gay disco ball really did let Lex control Clark. And he chose to intermittently. But we the audience didn't know at first that was going on. Then Doomie would be a good cover/parallel to hint at this. Wouldn't that be something gloriously rotten. In the season Supes starts assuming his destiny, he also starts a path of hidden villiany.


I'd be up for this.

Matt has bits about Flash in today's col, but nothing really spoilery per say. I figure he's just saying Ollie will be around a lot. He did mention something else, that's really Chloisy so I'm off to the Chlois thread.

Davis' alterego going after Jimmy makes tons of sense with the title. It also goes with SW's comments hinting at a Ben/Glory type storyline. The nice side resists following its instincts, while the evil side goes for it. And I think Jimmy is due for a little roughing up. I hope you're right.



I thought SW's comments about Davis being connected to Clark on the show, about how well thought out his storyline is and what a great direction they have for the story, hinted at something more than what they've told so far. I would think Dooms' appearane is the result of the Clex showdown at the FOS and the orb, but I can't guess how they'll connect them together. SW's comments made me wonder if something was taken from Clark to make Doomsday and that was what he was talking about when he said Davis and Clark would be connected.

Just saw an interview on the Canadian channel Space from Comic Con, and SW does seem to be indicating that the blackouts he has are something new that starts at the beginning of S8, even though Davis himself has been on Earth his whole life. It seems they may be setting up some kind of connection, as an alien energy or something that takes him over as the season progresses. In SW's words, he "becomes Doomsday", which I thought was an interesting distinction from it already being an inherent, although buried, part of him.

The more I think about it, the more I don't like it, Polar when thinking about how the storyline ends.

1) We have a separation of Doomsday-spirit and Davis. Doomsday-spirit is destroyed and Sam remembers nothing (or even if he remembers some things) but he still goes on, which I don't think would give decent closure.

2) Davis can't be killed by any of the regulars. Yes, Giles killed Ben but he was a more complex, morally ambiguous character. Clark or Chloe or Oliver won't kill a human on this show and if there's any chance for Davis to be saved (even if he craves the power), I don't think they'd destroy him.

3) They rip-off Spiderman 3 and they figure out a way to split Davis and Doomsday but Davis still likes the power and he dies trying to regain it.

4) Davis re-finds his humanity and sacrifices himself to save Doomsday which is kind of meh and generic to me.

5) The Justice Squad and MM are helpless against the Doomsday Monster. Metropolis lies in ruins. Clark is getting beaten up badly. Out of nowhere Lex comes back, armed with Kryptonian technology, and fucks Doomsday's shit up with no concern about Davis or saving Davis' soul.

For me, if this is the route they are going with, I'll have to see how the execution goes. And at this point, it can go either way, imo.

It does make some sense, however that this is what they're setting up; the Disco Ball of Power was supposed to do something to stop/counteract the Traveler if he ever got out of hand. So far, we know that Clark survives and Lex is missing, even though Lex is supposedly the one who was in control. That doesn't add up, to me. However, if Lex wasn't actually the one who had power over Clark, and all he did was release what will become Doomsday by placing the DBoP in the Fortress, then there is now something out there that can stop/counteract the Traveler, which Lex obviously wasn't able to do just by having the DBoP himself.

All that makes perfect sense to me, and I agree that it seems like that's what they're setting up. However, I think the biggest flaw in that is that the DBoP wasn't supposed to destroy the Traveler, it was supposed to control him, according to Veritas. I guess it could be shoddy translation by Swann, and "control" actually meant "counteract." If this was any other show, I'd expect an explanation, but with SV, it's barely a hope.

The biggest question in my mind is why Davis was "chosen" as a host for Dooms.

They've gotten around it before. If the Doomsday spirit completely destroys Davis (like the idea that Illyria destroyed Fred's soul in S5 of Angel), then Clark killing Doomsday in a fight would be much like Clark taking out a MF or one of the Zoners in a fight. It's not something I like, but if Davis has become a blatant killing machine, I think they can do it without stretching much beyond what they've already had Clark do.

My vote goes to this. Lex coming back to kill earth biggest thread would be all kinds of awsome and in character after all the character has been trough. Clark could think he will be one of the good guys and Lex could tell him that he only did it because if someone is going to conquer the planet will be him and then just to proof that he is not kidding he shoots and kills Nois as well. :)

I have the feeling the Disco ball will leave Clark depowered and an amnesiac and that Doomsday will be a seperate issure. I'd prefer a little continuity, but I don't expect to get it. Maybe Doomsday will be someone who escaped from where ever MM was keeping his prisoners.

One of the Comic Book versions had Doomsday buried undergound after he crashed into Earth, and then he was dug up by Luthercore. That would have worked so well with the last Season Finale of SMALLVILLE. Tess could have been in the Arctic digging around the location of the Fortress looking for Lex and accidently released Doomsday. Then I think there was a version where Doomsday was a type of Luthorcore experiment, so maybe that's the one we're getting. I do like MM out to "get his man" though, and the Phantom has to hide pretty quickly in someone.

Heck why not both? After all that Lex went through with those Alien Peptides that he had collected (losing Bartlett, Dr. Scientist, and his Lana Clone) maybe Lex tried to make an Anti-Phantom Antidote? That would explain why a person is sometimes normal, but then other times not? The anti-dote would be wearing off and they would be under control of the Phantom again. We've seen Lex make plenty of things like that.

About the Disco Ball of Power my Fanwank is that it was made by Jor-El to control Zod. Jor-El knew that Zod had vowed to get out of the Phantom Zone, and Zod was the kind of guy who would go after Jor-El's son for revenge. The only reason that Zod would not destroy Kal-El was because Zod would need a body for himself, preferably a Kryptonian one. I think that Jor-El knew there was a chance that Zod would take over Kal-El's body so he prepared a way for the humans to "control" or subdue Zod who was another "Traveler".

All this talk of Disco Balls makes me want to see Lex and Tess "Do the Hustle"! [Hums '70's music]

So Lex is going to be presumed dead, right? I wonder if we'll get to see a memorial or a gravestone or something, like in "Exile," perhaps after Tess and her team leave the arctic after not finding him.

Gotta disagree on this one lacking closure. For me, when it comes to defining Superman I think his line to the villain at the end of the "Ruin" arc in the comics sums it up best; "No one dies today. Not even you."

This is how I'd like to see it go down in the final episode; Davis goes into full Doomsday mode against his will. Clark faces Doomsday and dies. Chloe gets some critical piece of information on how to shut down Doomsday and save Davis. She revives Clark and with this information Clark goes in for round two where Clark manages to save Davis from Doomsday.

Frankly I can't think of anything more Supermanly than Clark saving the life of the very man who killed him. That's what Superman does isn't it? He saves people.

Except for the people in Belle Reve and that bald guy in the Arctic who tried to commit double suicide. Not really seeing him as Mr. Savior, more like Mr. Scream at them and shove them thirty feet in the air.

With our luck, Doomsday will turn his back and Clark will use some doohickey to push him into the Phantom Zone.

Didn't count on this one.

Wait a minute, in "What Ever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow?" didn't the Legion give Superman some gadget that was a Phantom Zone projector (that zapped people into the PZ) or something? Would they plan that far ahead that the end of the arc is set up in episode 9?

What I meant was Davis come out of his Doom-daze and says "what happened? where am I? Last thing I remember was... (pre-season 8)" and Chloe (or someone) comforts him but he's never seen or mentioned again. (This show likes forgetting characters exist once they serve whatever nonsensical purpose they're meant to.)

So the shiny guest stars might have a point beyond ragging on Clark and distracting us from the big ol' mess of SV? Whoa. I can't believe it.

I for one would be kind of disappointed if we got a gigantic knock-down, drag-out, and then it ended with Clark pulling out a PZ projector and just... sending DMT away. I guess if they can set it up well, it would work.

I was at the comic book store today and saw an issue of LoSH with Supergirl, and it really makes me hope they use that episode to resolve the whole "Kara is stuck in a prison dimension" thing. Like a lot.

Not me. I'd actually hate an outcome along these lines and would simply see Chloe continuing in a rather Mary!Sue-ish characterization of being the one who mysteriously produces last minute solutions to otherwise desparate problems. One of the criticisms that Chloe detractors have often had with her character is the ridiculously improbable scenarios wherein she finds solutions for problems in areas that extend beyond any plausibility even for a sci-fi adventure story. In essence, she becomes the only real hero and Supes is relegated to being a Kryptonian bullet proof vest that stoppped the fatal bullet. In this scenario, Chloe finds all the answers and provides the solutions. I'd hate it. Chloe researches and finds the answers on how to dismantle the killing instincts of one of the most notorious murderers in the mythology, and just to up her status as Saint!Chloe she also happens to be able to heal Superman of his deadly wounds. Entirely too Mary!Sue-ish for me. If Clark has to kill Doomsday and be killed himself in the process, then Chloe willingly chooses to revive the man that she really loves--that's the emotional beauty and real power in her having the power to begin with, imo. Allowing both Dooms and Clark to live is entirely too neat and convenient for me. We already know that Clark finds killing an abhorent prospect, but season 6 showed us that Clark was left with no choice otherwise than to have to slay Titan, and Clark was deeply bothered by the prospect of having to do it. The show explored the ethical side of the debate by revealing how Clark felt about that issue. The show chose to leave Clark with no other options in light of it being an unsolvable problem--there was no way to return that creature to the PZ. Doomsday has to die.

The mythology here is that Doomsday can also self heal. He has an accelerated healing factor, so he will be around somewhere in the future. I'm never going to care about SV!Dooms. He's a 12-13 episode character, I'm assuming. There's only so much that the show can do to explore his character, and then the mystery around him is solved. He just is what he is, and I don't care if he lives or not.

If Chloe provides all the solutions and saving Bloome becomes the sole focus, then Bloome alone IS the focus, and Clark was little more than Chloe's sidekick. If Chloe has to save Clark from death because he ultimately has to battle saving her from Bloome (my spec), then I want the focus to be on Chlark--NOT Bloome. That's where the emotional power and the drama lies for me. I'd be glad that Bloome was finally gone. People will have been needlessly slaughtered and their lives stolen from them by Bloome. Why should they die and he be saved? If someone is going to be saved, then Bloome is last in line, imo. If people are going to be saved, then it should start with Chloe going to every cemetary in Metropolis to raise Bloome's victims from the dead first, and then she and Clark can discuss what to do with Bloome later.

Wes Keenan was a true hero and a Lex victim, and yet, Clark had to kill him to save himself & Lois--same with Titan--Clark had to slay him to save himself and Lois. Why should a murderer like Davis Bloome be mourned over and miraculously cured of being the ill mannered serial murderer? Shouldn't Wes have been allowed to live instead? Some people would say that by killing Burke, Wes probably did the American people a favor, I don't know. I'd rather the scenes for that episode end with Bloome's lifeless corpse laying dead on the ground and Chlark holding each other after the emotional moment that Chloe would raise Clark from the dead. Why would I want the real drama to be given back to Bloome while the Chlark save becomes secondary in the storyline?

As far as I'm concerned, MM can dispose of Bloome's lifeless body somewhere in a distant graveyard on the other side of the universe.


Indeed. Supes saves people. But, sometimes, life is a bitch, and then you die. Life has a way of assigning unfortunate circumstances to individuals, and it isn't always fair. That's real life. I'd rather see Bloome embrace the evil for everything it's worth and bathe himself in blood because that's core to his nature. That's who he is.

Then better hope the TPTB don't follow this sentiment. Why? Chloe loves Clark so much, sacrificed everything for him, done so much for him, and He falls in love with her cousin who's successful at Chloe's dream job. Chloe dies, while Lois is everything Chloe wanted for most of the series. If we can say "Life's a bitch..." then well everything must be then. So I'm praying to god that in Smallville, Life isn't a bitch, but fair.

As for Bloome and Clark.

I think it's more of a redemption for Chloe then Bloome. It seems to me they are going to have Chloe choose her loyalties between Bloome and Clark. And while I don't see the Clark/Doomsday fight about Chloe, with Chlark you know it's always the world at stake, Chloe helping Clark, by saving him after Bloome kills him IMHO is redemption on Chloe.

I dunno, i they are going with this "Feel bad for Davis" crap, the only way I'd want them to save Davis, is if it is indeed a phantom or an alien entity but if Doomsday is who and what he is, then it's just another case for the Series message: "Can't escape your Destiny"

The very fact that they're locked up in Belle Reve after commiting some seriously messed up crimes and not in some unmarked grave somewhere is kinda my point. Superman may use force to stop a bad guy, but he does his best to not kill. Clark is still in process on this, that's why we get things like Clark killing Titan in "Combat" and then questioning if it really was the only option (though it certainly seemed to be at the time).

We see the distinction come up again in "Arctic" when Brainiac tries to use qualms about killing a human being to get Clark to stop and the caveat that Brainiac is a machine (which reminds me a lot of Batman's "... but I don't have to save you" caveat from 'Batman Begins' because Batman is another hero who doesn't kill his foes).

Superman is about justice to me... and that means that if Davis IS an innocent victim then he needs to be saved. Killing an innocent to stop the monster is the sort of expediency I'd expect from Lex Luthor; the villain of the story; not the hero.

I believe someone upthread (or in some thread anyway) likened the situation with Davis/Doomsday to Ben/Glory and specifically the part where Giles murdered Ben to keep Glory from returning. His rationale is of course that he's NOT the hero.

The thing that struck me most about that though is that they did this as a direct compare and contrast to Buffy in the very same episode. Buffy too had a choice to make between killing the innocent and saving the world. But she's the hero of the story so she finds the way to both save the innocent and save the world (by sacrificing herself in the case of that story).


Well, given that I don't expect the battle to even happen until the series finale episode (and probably in the last 10-15 minutes at that) I really don't expect there to be long lasting reprecussions seen on screen regardless of the outcome.

I'll also add that my suspicion is that even though there is kryptonian stuff involved, the final version of Doomsday will probably involve 33.1 in some manner and this supposition plays directly into my desired ending. This makes Davis a victim being turned into a weapon by the real villain (i.e. Lex) as opposed to the villain himself which makes Clark doing anything other than saving Davis a story where the villain wins.

The other thing that I try to keep in mind too is that Davis is a supporting character, just like Nois, Jimmy, Tess and Ollie are. That means he exists to service the story of the main characters and beyond that purpose (i.e. being saved by the hero in this case) anything more in their resolution is gravy.


I disagree because, as the only other character to appear in all 22 episodes this season Chloe is certainly going to have her own arc and that arc will need to be resolved as well in the course of wrapping up the season/series. If what we know now is any indication, it sounds like she's going to be drawn into a 33.1 related arc which, if there is a 33.1 related connection to Doomsday, puts her in an ideal situation to get the critical piece of information at the right time.

There's also a difference between setting up a character to be in the right place at the right time via a causal chain (i.e. Chloe finds out a critical piece of information about Doomsday's connection to 33.1 because she's been investigating every lead she can find about 33.1 over the course of the season and one of them finally pans out with a tip that then leads her to a 33.1 facility where she is nearly killed while trying to escape with the information on Doomsday) and a deus ex machinae situation where pure coincidence turns the story (i.e. someone sends Chloe, who is just puttering at her desk, a random e-mail containing proof that Doomsday is linked to 33.1 and the failsafe code to shut Doomsday down). The former is what professors who teach writing call plot developments... the latter is what you get with Mary Sues (funny... isn't that pretty much what happened with Nois in "Veritas"?)


I forget who actually said it, but a fairly famous author once pointed out that (paraphrasing) "the best thing about fiction is that, unlike life, every DOES get what they deserve."

Indeed, according to Professor McKee (the guy who taught AlMiles how to put together stories) in classically designed stories it is imperitive that everyone get what they deserve because that ending coincides with the yearnings of the human psyche.

To quote McKee directly;
Most human beings believe that life brings closed experiences of absolute, irreversable change; that their greatest sources of conflict are external to themselves; that they are the single and active protagonists of their own existence; that their existence operates through continuous time within a consistent, causally interconnected reality; and that inside this reality events happen for explainable and meaningful reasons. Since our first ancestor stared into a fire of his own making and thought the though "I am," this is how human beings have seen the world and themselves in it. Classical design is a mirror of the human mind.
"Story: Substance, Structure, Style, and the Principles of Screenwriting" Robert McKee; p. 62.

To put it simply, nothing in a story should happen by accident. If there are coincidences in the story (say... a car crash that causes two lives to connect) they need to be worked into the story early so that the true story can result from the causal reactions to the incident (i.e. the story didn't end with Lex hitting Clark in that car crash in the pilot... that's where the story started).

Given who they learned how to write from (I don't have full backgrounds on PS3, but those I do have learned from the same place AlMiles did... in addition to learning the ropes from AlMiles for six years) I just don't believe we'll get any sort "life's a bitch and then you die" sort of ending to the story. When you look at AlMiles body of work it is universally works of classical design where the characters get what they deserve based on their actions in the story.

Heroes are rewarded, villains are punished, and the innocent get saved. IF they play Davis as an innocent then he'll be saved in the end.

I take your points, Chris. I've been there and already thought those points through. The primary problem that I see is that there has to be a point where Bloome simply cannot be redeemed, imo--I raised some of those clear issues in my last post. There are a lot of story elements that I think are missing in your analysis that should flow from internal logic that exists in the show right now. What we see should logically flow from those developments, imo. While the show may spin this version of Dooms, I do think they're going for an origins story for this creature, and he is supposed to emerge as the traditional unredeemable butcher.

Whether Dooms should be redeemed, per se, will have much to do with an individual's sense of justice and fair play. Apply some reverse logic. Why do an unknown number of "innocents" have to be slaughtered along the way so that Bloome gets his freedom or redemption in the end? Those people deserve justice, and their blood is on Bloome's hands--he can never ever make amends. What I see coming is clearly different from some. I agree that the focus of the story ultimately brings us back to Clark & Chloe in the end, and yes, Bloome services their storyline. I don't OTOH think that the series ends without first offering the characters the opportunity to interact for a final time, therefore, I don't see the battle occurring the final 15 minutes, but rather, earlier.

I would see Bloome's story as being a sad and unfortunate turn of events for him, but he has to be destroyed, and in that act, there's justice for those who he has destroyed, imo. Even Doc Octavius was willing to accept final responsibility for the monster he was becoming and willingly made the personal sacrifice to stop the insanity. It may not have been Bloome's desire to become a serial murdering freak, but his death should suffice for the acts of brutality he has committed against our own race. He gets what he has coming, in essence. I think there's an assumption that Bloome isn't going to devolve into a wrecking machine , but rather that he is an innocent. None of the current interviews suggest that Bloome remains a nice guy beyond the initial introduction and the intial perceptions others have of him. SW is even evasive about the idea that Bloome may actually emerge as developing boney body protrusions like traditional Dooms. I have to think that this is a process of descent that he can't come back from. At some point, Chlark have to see him for what he is--a murderer. They have to reject him at some point. Chloe can't be anywhere near him imo as the season starts to wind down.

Ultimately, my final point is that Bloome isn't a victim, he's a murderer. The real victims are those that he slaughters, and you take away any residual sympathy for this creature by following the logic all the way out--he devolves and embraces his true instincts. His destruction has to become inevitable at some pioint. Moreover, I think the Chlark save will be the centerpiece of this story in the end, not Bloome's salvation.

I disagree Sarah. This isn't some "devil made me do it"/insanity defense, the devil really did make him do it. Yes, blood is on his hand but I think because of the circumstances, if he's still "good at heart," has a chance (or should have a chance) of being redeemed. I definitely think he's a victim in all of this.

But I also want him to grow to accept and like the Doom side of him because I think that would make him more interesting than throwing us someone tragic.

Taking to the Themes thread.

I haven't stated that this is the situation the audience will be faced with. I also hate that scenario. But, nor will I accept that this is a situation that ultimately is beyond Bloome's control. We can speculate, but honestly, the premiere hasn't even aired yet. My thoughts are simply a case of whether there's a point in redeeming a creature of this nature. Some will yes, and I say NEVER.

Wes was a hero, and yet the show had him put down by Clark in the end. Now, Chris raised the issue earlier regarding how the show delineated between Clark slaying creatures like Titan versus the prospect of killing a mere machine like Brainiac, but my point might be that perhaps this is what Brains is counting on in the upcoming season--which flows out of my own personal theory that Clark won't be willing to kill anythng that looks, breathes, walks and feels like he does, therefore Dooms is all the more dangerous. The simple way the show can beat this ethical dilemma is that the creature devolves into an unredeemable murdering machine. I'm thinking that others see this as a scenario that the show hasn't really offered any support for just yet. We don't know to a certainy how this plays out. But, there's a point where the show is allowing Bloome to murder without distinction, apparently. His past is murky and filled with serial murder. Notwithstanding whether Bloome realizes the truth or not, he is what he is--iow, a dog doesn't bark to become a dog, he barks because he is a dog. So, the question becomes should the show provide him a way out? That depends on how they write the character in season 8. My preference is that the show take away the "devil made me do it" defense because that shit just doesn't wash, imo. People are dying in the meantime.

I personally think the point here is that Bloome services Chlark's storyline in the end, not the other way around. IOW, there's a point in my mind when a secondary character like Bloome is fully expendable. You defeat the ethical issues by collapsing the creature onto his own nature--to kill. I don't want the gentlemanly serial murderer to start playing nice, because I don't care about him at all. I only care how he impacts Chlark. Only they are important in my mind. So, you write Bloome in a manner that finally takes him out of the picture and away from center stage.

This is one area I disagree. If Davis makes it into the main credits, I will assume that he's important. Yes, I've been burned before with this show for that exact reason (Jason Teague) but for starters, I will try and care about Davis. If they actually attempt to breathe life into him, then he exists for me and I care about his situation. While his story might exist to service Clark or Chlark, that doesn't make him any less "real" or his struggle any less genuine. (This, of course, will change if they make him window dressing like Jason Teague).

So I guess I'm looking at it from Davis' POV (at least for now), and I don't wanted him to be wasted in such a way. And even if he is, with the way it's set up, discussion needs to be more than "he's a monster, kill him!" Because right now Davis definitely seems like a victim.

YMMV.

But the devil did make him do it. It's not merely a defense, it's the truth. And this isn't some real word scenario with a "is he insane?" question. It's a sci-fi show where this guy really is possessed. Would you hold the people possessed in Supernatural accountable for what they do while under demonic possession?

And if that is the way they go (i.e. Davis learns to love being a monster) then, I'm right there with you in Doomsday being taken down hard. My point is that, since this is a work of fiction brought into being by people who have been taught to think that good storytelling involves people getting what they deserve, it is therefore reasonable to believe that the ending will involve people getting what they deserve.

If Davis is treated as a victim under the control of some outside force that is using his body to kill people then he's an innocent and deserves to be saved. For an analogy; someone uses brute force to press a knife into your hand and then, with one hand pressed around your hand and another on your wrist, stabs someone to death. You may have been holding the knife... but you're certainly not the killer.

Conversely, if Davis is treated as coming to love the power inside of him and willingly lets it out, then he's a villain.

The reason why Davis as an innocent works for me is because it means that someone else (specifically Lex) is the real villain, and, given the themes of the series as I understand them... I'd much rather have the final villain of the series be Lex (even if it is only via the proxy of his scheme involving turning an innocent into a live weapon) versus it just being a new villain introduced this season who basically ends up replacing Lex.

Davis as victim of Lex's evil scheme makes Doomsday the opening of the "Never-Ending Battle" between Clark and Lex in a way that Davis as solo villain never could. For me it would be far more emotionally satisfying to have it be a Lex plot that Clark manages to foil.

Finally... in so far as this being the "origin" of Doomsday. I think this going to play a lot more like Bizarro honestly. This really is feeling like a Superman Now/remix because Bizarro and Zod have both came and went pretty decisively. I suspect Doomsday will be the same.

This, in part, has to do with the differences between comics and television as a medium. Unless you're ER, series television by it's very nature has an end-point. Comics, by contrast are, barring dismal sales or a limited series, meant to be ongoing and open-ended.

Where I'm going with this is that television and movies tend to handle Big-Bad's differently than the comics do. Batman Begins could do in Ras al Ghul because, even if the series is wildly successful, they aren't going to run out of available villains before the natural life of this incarnation of the series comes to an end.

The point here is that, barring a massive mind-wipe of virtually everyone (i.e. the MOTHER of all deus ex machinae endings), Smallville is only going to aligning with past versions of the mythos in the most general way (although some of the meta related to things like why Lionel's backstory is remembered as the backstory of Iron Age Lex Luthor is BRILLIANT) and, with s8 more than likely being the last, they really don't have to worry about ensuring that Doomsday is able to return. They can bring it to a final, irrevocable end.

This is where I am coming from as well. I did not love the Mercy / Ben dynamic of Buffy, which Davis/Doomsday seems to be based on. But something that Whedon & Co. nailed perfectly was that Ben made the choice to help Mercy. He covered up her crimes, he had her victims killed, and in the end he chose to sacrifice Dawn. He made the decision to be a bad guy.

Davis, IMO, needs to make that choice. Sure, we can see the build up, we can see the black-outs, and his fear , but I need to see the moment he decides to be evil. Otherwise, he is just another victim, and no more or less evil than Lamar when he was possessed by Baern in Fallout, Lex when he was possessed by Zod in Zod, Clark when Lionel performed the body switch in Transference or Lana any of the times Isobel took over in season four.

A bigger issue for me is the inevitable guilt factor. I do not want to see Clark pile more angst on himself for being forced to kill good old Davis. Clark gets enough shit on this show, and being forced into the role of executioner / mercy killer is not something I want for his character. Clark may have accidentally been involved in a few cases of manslaughter over the years, but has he ever set out to kill someone? Well, has he ever set out to kill someone in a case that did not directly involve Lana in some way? IIRC, Clark did not intend to kill Titan in Combat - the dumb Zoner fell on his own bone spike. Clark did not mean to kill Wes - he put some extra force into his heat vision (hell, the JL used a mini nuke in J&D), but Wes would not let Lois save him. This I agree with. Davis needs to serve Chlark's story, not the opther way around. A real weakness of Smallville, IMO, since season five has been the focus on the recurring characters, to the detriment of the main cast - especially Clark and Lex. GreenArrowVille and KaraVille reduced Clark and Lex to supporting cast for the real stars, Ollie and Kara. The less said about Uterusville, the better. My hope is that Davis and Tess will be used more like Milton Fine / Brainiac in season five - villains who serve and drive the stories of the primary cast. YMMV.

There's the difference--you care, I don't--he's a murderer. We don't know how the show will portray this with any real certainty. But, all indications to this point suggests that while the show spins his story, this is still an origins story, nonetheless. We don't know that we're supposed to see Bloome as someone Chlark will be pulling to get all better by season's end.

It's merely speculation that the devil did make him do it. We don't honestly know that to a certainty. There's suggestion that this has a potential "human interest" twist to it, but there's a bigger picture here that other people's storylines depend on, imo. As I'm reading this at present, Bloome services Chlark's storyline, not the other way around. That's how this show works, imo. That's the set up I see coming personally, so we'll have to see how it turns out.

Which is basically my point in all of this. I think this is actually the only way it really works in the end from Bloome's stand point.

Exactly, because it's not necessary that Bloome get a happy ending. The point imo is how this services Chlark's storyline and gets them to their endpoint in the series--NOT Bloome. His story helps them, not the other way around. At least, not imo. That's why the only way I see his character working is to collapse him into utter darkness. You up the danger of Chlark, not redeem Bloome. The crisis brings Chlark to a relevant end point, not Dooms. He's expendable in this story, imo. What is the cost to redeem a serial murderer who's slaying human beings on the streets? How many people does the show allow him to slaughter before Chloe discovers a serum in the new lab that returns Bloome to a piece of corn fed Kansas gold with a good heart? I'm just not buying it. Therefore, I hate the Bloome character before the season starts. I don't care about him at all.

Changing the subject:
it wouldn't be more logical if Tess and Nois storylines were linked?
I mean Nois knows that Lex is capable of cloning and making up faux memories for his clones so Tess coming out of thin air and taking over Luthorcorp knowing everything Lex knows will be something that should ring a bell on any investigative reporter to suspect that she could be his latest creation...any idea if we are going to see that onscreen?

Lois doesn't know it was successful, though. She doesn't know Grant was a clone, she just knows about the guy who was a "failure" and aged too quickly. So Tess showing up out of seemingly nowhere - which I get the impression from Cassidy's interviews isn't really the case, it's just that she's not known by the main characters, who imo, shouldn't personally know everyone Lex has working for him - shouldn't raise clone suspicions from anyone, really. The only person who knew Grulian was a success was Lionel, and he's dead.

Now, I'm all for the idea that Tess is a clone. I'm also curious as to why they seem to have matched her hair to Gina's. Could Tess be a younger clone of hers, like Grant was of Adrian?

Are we sure about that?
I know Lois and Lana never talked about it onscreen but Lana's clone wasn't aging when she took it so there is still the chance that Lex could had been succesful and even if is true that all those subjects were destroyed on the dam the show has placed and emphasis on having Nois chasing every Lex move so she shoyuld had gotten something about how advanced was Lex's clonning research IMO. Since she had meet a functioning clone with a minor aging effect and theoritecally she knows about an inactive one without that problem so...



I like that idea as well, but I would had prefered the same actress playing her if that was the case.

I'm not sure we can be certain of anything on this show. :) But personally, I'd consider it a stretch for Lois to know anything other than what Adrian told her. She obviously didn't know about the Lana clone by Gemini, so I think it's safe to say she doesn't know about it at all. And at the end of that episode is when Lex takes control of the DP, so I think it's likely that any efforts Lois made into digging into Lex's activities were hindered from then on, as evidenced by her not being able to find anything out about what he was doing in the Arctic, and seemingly taking Jimmy's word on what he told her he found out about it. So while Lois definitely knows Lex is into cloning, I don't think anyone, other than Lionel, knows to what extent.


I would, too, but this is typical TV casting, so it wouldn't bother me too much. After all, we had a different actor playing Adrian. I get the impression Tess is supposed to be in her 20s, which Gina obviously wasn't, so it's not a major caveat to me to have a younger actress playing a younger version.

From TV Guide: The Justice League in the premiere! (photo)

There are some spoilery quotes on the page, so be warned.

Woo! Finally, something!

Alaina is letting her hair grow out. And Aquaman with his shirt on? Why would I want to see that? He prefers to be naked people! Let the man swim free!

I don't think the aging problem would have kicked in until the clone was "activated" and Lana's wasn't. So even if Lois did know about Lana's clone (which I find highly unlikely, JMO), there is no way for her to be sure that he could successfully bring a clone to regular, human life.

IA.

Hm, I didn't think of Gina. I just saw the obvious Luthor connection with the dark red hair. Wasn't Gina's more dark brown.

Don't get me wrong, if Tess is a Gina!clone, I automatically like her more for having the same DNA as our awesome Maybe!Mercy. (Though I too wish we could have Anna Galvin back, because she was awesome)

ITA. A character can exist to serve another's storyline and still live. And, like CTUN, if Davis comes across as real, then I will care. He's not a FotW; they're supposed to make him a character.

And this is why Doomsday isn't supposed to be a "character" in the death of Superman story. Because we're not supposed to care about him; he's a killing machine. Davis, as far as I can tell from spoilers and SW's interviews, isn't a killer- yet. It remains to be seen whether it will be his choice or not to become one, but it certainly seems like he's not starting out this way.

Thanks for the heads-up Craig.

*sighs* Here comes the "God Gives with Both Hands" pimping. I don't care. I don't care about a mini-JL, I didn't care about them before and I don't now. I'd rather get something about Doomie, Tess, or Chloe, without the miserable Jimmy in the picture. God, every time I think of the time and space wasted on him - and the time that will be wasted on him in this season - I want Doomie and Clark to take turns pummelling him too. *ugh* This like the early stages of my Lana-hate before I just quit watching.

Slavkin delivers this classic line in the interview:

Really, Todd. You've never in seven seasons thought that Clark might have a destiny you would have to explore - one that didn't mean exploring Lana's hang-ups?? Did you miss the memo? Were you sick that day and you're just now catching up? Awesome, I tell you. Fan-fucking-tastic. You all are playing catch-up on what your audience has been screaming at you about for seven seasons.

Is destiny your miserable excuse for Clark taking a job when he just now declined and considered his best friend's feeling in the matter?

Bullshit. Utter fucking BULLSHIT.

*shakes head* I'm so reading recaps and watching on youtube. Everything, except for a few moments here and there in a couple of episodes, still makes me want to hurl something.

Right, which is why EDLois is still alive, imo--at least for now.

Exactly, which is why I think that the show isn't going to over sell the character as a homeless stray puppy. I think they will let him own his own actions in the end and become the menace he's supposed to be..

The earliest available info at K-Site makes it pretty clear that Bloome is an alienated and hazy creature at his core. He's a product of the foster care system, and his past is shrouded in mystery. I don't think it's a question of what he is or isn't doing, but rather, it's a question of him finding it out. That's his "coming out" experience. He is what he is--it's just an issue of him finding it out, apparently. He doesn't lightswitch into Dooms--he already is Dooms. He just hasn't gotten the memo yet. YMMV.

Yep.

I thought his last line strange. As far as I can tell, and please, correct me if I am wrong, have we not been exploring Clark's "destiny" for the past 7 seasons? What does he mean when he implies that one of the areas they've never explored is Clark's destiny?

Heck? Have I been watching Heroes or Star Trek all these years, and thought it was the story of a young Superman working his way towards his destiny? Damn. I need to go back and check my videos.

Seriously though, I wonder what it is about the premier itself that brings forth this comment.

I'm betting Slavkin is exaggurating and "Clark's destiny" = him getting a job at the DP as a mole for the JL, which he joins. Thus, the JL is not the same anymore and he moves toward his destiny. Which I guess is a big thing. So maybe "exaggurate" is the wrong word.

I meant "live" in a metaphorical sense, not the technical sense (because I don't see EDLois as a really fleshed-out, full character, though I do agree that she's living pretty much to service the plot).

I really don't know what to think about this. The early info seems to conflict with the newer stuff. So yeah...

I dunno, Voyager had an episode titled Prey...

All joking aside, you're right, this show has experienced his destiny, and escaping his destiny.

Unless his destiny is something we've never witnessed before.

Destiny is, and always has been, this show's buzzword. Every year they always promise destiny and road to herdom and path to evilville. I just think they think it's cool to say destiny.

My reading on Davis comes from the newer stuff and our speculation on the newest stuff. But Davis being possessed by Doom is a lot different from Davis being Doom from the start.

My guess too. They've done little other than reference Clark's destiny for seven years. Maybe they're finally ready to have him start living it, at least pieces of it. He'll be working at the DP (next to Lois). They've hinted he might fly this season.

I fear that this is going to be a major theme this season. Chloe is blinded by her yearning to help others, and can't see what's in front of her--especially when it comes to Bloome.

It's familiar somehow, this theme of a friendship standing up against the odds, with one "good" character refusing to give up on/see the truth about the "bad" one. Can someone help me out?

Seriously, aside from the obvious parallel, I do think we'll be force fed Nois as Bestest Reporter EVAH vs. Chloe the Bleeding Heart, too blinded by her compassion to care about the truth. Just to hammer it home that Chloe is clearly out of the truth-seeking game while Nois' thirst for the big story, which must be uncovered at all costs, is her main focus. Vom.

One month to the season premiere and still no new pics or promos? Come on CW what's up with that?

Last night I noticed new promos/bumps for ANTM, Priviledged,One Tree Hill, and 90210. And of course the ones for Gossip Girl are in heavy rotation. Still no love for SV or SPN. *sigh*

I see the 90210 pool shot and the Gossip Attention Whores (Look! We have sex!) a lot and absolutely zero for SV and SN.

I remember someone saying at the end of S7 that they'd be idiots for not doing an ad campaign using the S/8 symbol for Season 8. Well, there's your answer.

As far as SV goes, I think at this point the network is working off the assumption that anyone still watching is going to know exactly when to tune in. Joking aside, they know we're in for the long haul and we'll be back regardless of what money is spent on promotion. I think that makes me a really cheap whore.

But SPN...that I'm more confused by. The show's only going into S4 (although I think it's only going to have 5 seasons) and there's still time to draw people in. They should be pimping the ever living shit out of JA and JP.

Yup. That's the CW for you. They promote the hell out of the new shows, especially 90210 since the original series had a huge following, and forget all about the older shows. The funny thing is that the lack of promotion doesn't seem to hurt the ratings for Smallville. Once the season starts, 4 million plus viewers tend to tune in and I think the CW is satisfied enough with that. I guess they feel that viewers are going to watch Smallville no matter what so they concentrate on promoting the shows that need more help.

Thanks for the heads up! I'm not gonna lie, that picture got me all kinds of excited! One of the big points for me to watch the premiere is the JLA, so it's fun to see them together. :)

Talk about dumb luck. I just stumbled across this new SPN poster at the HNR website. Unfortunately, there was no poster for SV.

SPN has also released a few season premiere photo images... though I think we'll have some SV stuff by the end of the week.

That's a really old poster, quietone. :P