Exactly. If there are no trials then it's not fun to watch, it's boring. Obstacles create drama, and it's typical of American TV shows that the bigger the challenge to overcome, and have it overcome by dedication, hard work, and with good intentions (the truth!) then people come to like the character - typically.



I'm sure they'll meet when she chases his ambulance now.



Yeah not a "You'll pay, you'll see!" type rant as she was pulled out the door. I mean the Daily Planet was infiltrated by and now owned and run by the villain. It's pretty much the point of a call to action by the heroes. It sets something to be done (clear the villain out of the truth seeking place of honesty). There is a reason Clark brought up three objections when given the application (Chloe's firing, Lex owning it, his own disinterest). I actually think the whole point of that scene was to remind people that it was unjust how she left, that it's something yet to be resolved, in part because the dialog of that scene comes off as a laundry list of things to fix before we'll see Clark there.

Which is a BIG reason why I'm interested in Clark having to deal with Tess, and wasn't there a side of Jimmy interacting with Tess too? It seems like they are going to continue those plot lines (Jimmy's deal, Clark vs. the Planet, and presumably whatever is going on with Chloe) through her. Given that she's clearly a Mercy/Tessmacher combo, I actually have some hope that she'll be interesting.



Yes, but she's also been the truth-seeker/truth-teller from the first episode and even now after she's fired. I mean she's canonically been on this track since she was at least in elementary school which IMO makes it a core of her character; it's something she's been doing over half her life per canon. Her call line since mid-s1 on the Torch, on the Chloe Chrons, on all of that, has been she's here to tell us the truth. Someone who works their butt off at their job (repeated ad infintum the past two seasons) where it's to tell us the truth doesn't show a lack of passion in that department or focus or a big want to do something else. Truly the time to of moved her if they actually wanted to move her was 4, and ot of never put her in the DP to begin with. Right-before-the-end firing comes off more "one big thing left to over come" and speaking to Lex's own villainy than "Oh she changed her mind."



However as Davis Bloome shows, we're not sticking to the comic book time line. I think the whole "It can't happen yet" flew out the window when Bart showed up, but with the League, Doomsday, Zod, Supergirl, and all of that... it's all compressed and overlayed and that constitutes a "Superman Now!" mentality. (I personally think it's more interesting that way, but YMMV).



I don't know, that's part of what I liked. They played that up by showing him in Arrival and then again in Aqua. I was thinking "What is this guy doing?" Grant wasn't really a villain, but the pawn of one, so in that case we needed to see what Lex was up to. But Brainiac they raised the question and I liked trying to figure out what he was doing before the show revealed it.

For Doomsday I would hope that if someone made him that way, we get to see some set up for it. I do often think of Greg Arkin and the early freak of the weeks; seeing them 'mutate' in a way always made me a bit more sympathetic towards them or creeped out by them.

At a recent convention Jason Dohring of Veronica Mars and Moonlight fame apparently mentioned that he had been meeting with the Smallville producers about something.

Now THERE's a DooMT that I could get behind... though, hopefully this Witwer guy will be good... "Logan" was one of the best parts of VM, and we know he can play "conflicted inside."

I hope the network or the show springs for new publicity photos of the new cast for this season.... I figure they will.

And in continuing the speculation game... who here thinks Michael will be back by season's end?

ME!!!
I really think that whatever problems they have with Michael they will offer him enough money to have him back for at least one episode to properly tie Lex to this story. I mean is only one day more of shaving after resting for quite some time.
They can also always go with the Lex is wearing wigs now. I think we will prefer a haired Lex than no Lex at all.

I hope we get new photos of ALL the cast (most importantly TW!). We shouldn't have to get our TW fix only from Vogue shoots.



I would hope that by the end of the season, he's done enough other stuff that coming back might seem like a fun reprise rather than work, work, work. Despite the fact that he's said pretty firmly he's not coming back, maybe by spring he'll feel differently. I certainly hope so!

[quote]Chloe's core traits" are a matter of opinion [quote]

Responding in All Seasons.

One point that may possibly be being overlooked here is whether the current storyline evolving from the Action meta is actually over or not. What I propose is that season 7 belonged to Devilicus. It started on the heels of Progeny, imo and the first signs of it emerged in Kara when his cloned baby brother appeared at the Planet--this is when the Luthor pillaging of the Planet began, objectively speaking. Throughout season 7 Devilicus ruled the SV-verse...as the meta suggests:
Lex had the upper hand on everyone virtually all season long, and when he lost positive control, either he or a minion killed them. None of his enemies were spared his wrath, and that includes Chloe. Who was ultimately the victim of Lex's takeover of the DP?...was it Chloe or her dumb shit cousin? There's still an over arching storyline in progress that's not been resolved--Tess will extend that storyline into season 8, imo. I think that's the point in her character being introduced. She's going to be there as a Luthor partisan and an enforcer.

WRT the Planet, Luthor influence has been standing on Chloe's neck all season long throughout season 7...not EDLois. Nois actually benefitted from the experience once the standards were lowered and the open assault on Chloe began. Chloe was insulted, belittled, and her skills were maligned by a villain. She was pushed to the back of the line while the office whore cousin was allowed preferential treatment in plain open view of Chloe, the audience and the rest of the DP staff. Why was Chloe treated so badly by Lex? He saw her as a threat from late season 6, imo. A Luthor had editorial control over the DP,...a Luthor insulted and belittled Chloe....a Luthor chose EDLo to do his fluff piece over Chloe,...a Luthor was spying on Chloe's computer and locked down her files in Hero,...a Luthor fired Chloe over little more than a deep personal animosity, and a Luthor took advantage of Jimmy's betrayal of Chloe to leverage it in his favor. Lex was going to fire Chloe at that point anyway because Lex was pissed and eager in his quest for the Traveler. Chloe, as usual, was his nemesis in that situation....so, he fired her. Nothing about Chloe's termination was ever related to her performance for the paper--certainly nothing was offered onscreen.

Chloe being willing to walk away from the Planet isn't that surprising at that point because the paper has been sinking since Kara. Real journalists are virtually non-existant at the Planet at this point other than a few leftovers i.e. Jimmy Olsen. Chloe's statements to Clark about her "9-5" in Descent suggest directly that this is an issue that the show will address at a later time...it's not a settled issue, imo. It will likely be addressed in season 8. As long as the Planet is owned by Lex, the Action meta is still in effect (imo) because the story never got a resolution--Tess will take it up in season 8, I believe.

The Planet will have to be redeemed--it has to be. Lex has destroyed the Daily Planet. He has fired most of the staff while the paper is printing tabloid news and Luthor puff pieces. Real journalists like Chloe have been let go. Chloe has never expressed any real disinterest in journalism so much as her distaste for working for Lex, but that issue will surely be addressed next season, imo. Since the show tells us that Clark WILL NOT work for Lex, then Luthor corruption has to be thrown out on it's ear, imo. When that happens, big changes should follow for the Planet, imo--that should include restoring the old standards for journalism. Kahn=Perry=Chloe. Lois isn't a part of the show's association between honorable journalists and DP standards for truth and honesty. Again, Kahn=Perry=Chloe. EDLois=Clonian and Luthor corruption. EDLois has actually benefitted from Luthor corruption, imo. I don't believe that the Planet can or will be redeemed until Tess is defeated and Luthor corruption is broken and done away with....that's a critical point, imo.

Now, the idea that Chloe has lost her "mojo" isn't implausible on the surface, imo. She hasn't lost her talent, but her zeal. This is believeable to me--she's been distracted for two seasons by her work with Clark and a worthless and destructive personal relationship with JO. So, objectively speaking, Chloe may have lost an edge. In the meantime, the aimless, eager and untalented cousin has caught her unexpectedly from behind and has arrived at the DP (much to Chloe's surprise). The only real problem I have with Chloe is the "over-sell" of the Chimmy significance by the show to the extent that it's dragged Chloe into a beggarly position where she appears pathetic and emotionally crippled by that ship. She has looked like an emotonal twit because of the drawn out ship that has set her up for senseless sorrow and now a betrayal by the BF. The major difference between Pod!Chloe and Real!Chloe is common sense and reason--the character has swung entirely too far towards the edge of stupidity for me to take her seriously anymore. So, that has to change, imo. Chimmy is reflective of the problem with Chloe having lost her "mojo", imo. It has to go. I think it will go, but not before the Chimmy and a marriage engagement have finished leaving a very bad taste in the mouths of the viewers. The writers will break her out of it somewhere, but will it restore her personal credibility for the viewers? My point would be that we're waiting for a response from the heroine of the story, and we haven't received that yet, imo.

Right now and for the foreseeable future, Devilicus has the upper hand, but the show will approach the point where the storyline will demand a response from it's heroes--it has to happen that way, or there's no end in sight. So, I think it's entirely too premature for Cloisers to dance the victory dance just yet. This story isn't over yet. Objectively speaking, the show hasn't established that Chloe is out of journalism, but that she's simply unemployed. The story's heroes have yet to respond to the challenges yet in an ongoing storyline. I think Chlark and Oliver will be the backbone of that effort along with some measure of support from asshat Olsen.

Awesome post, smiling sarah!

I believe you to be quite right on all counts. Unfortunately, I have little to no faith that the writers or producers use the same kind of logic that you do. If the point was to get Lois in and move Chloe out (and it seems that, sadly, it was), they achieved their goal. And now it's time to move on. Does it make sense? HELL no. But I have great doubt that S8 will give us much by way of Chloe's redemption via Chloe clawing her way back to the DP and being rehired by Perry or whomever rights the ship. Especially not now that Oliver/GA will be back. If Chloe isn't working with Ollie, then what will he do all season besides interact with Nois here and there, which that won't allow for much Clois involvement. I've actually been sort of excited to see Chloe in Watchtower mode--not to mention that Allison has great chemistry with Justin--because personally, I've pretty much lost hope for Chloe's being reinstated and as I HATE the Chimmy and her Borgness right now, anything is preferable.

However--there's certainly room for arguement. It seems to be a pretty popular theory that Chloe's line in "Descent" was thrown in to stall the character in light of the change to the finale and extra episodes tacked onto S7. So even if I were arguing that Chloe's "progression" away from the DP is organic and positive, I'd not use that as a defense.

What I really don't get, though, is what the point of the Chloe-bashing by Grulian was. Certainly it seemed to be setting up for Chloe's fall and subsequent redemption later...I mean jeez, it was near fucking hamfisted how obvious it was. But oddly, that just seems like that's further and further from actually happening. Unless we all read it wrong, and that whole weird exchange was just a vehicle for Chloe to stop enjoying her work and open herself to new possibilities. The problem is, Chloe has NEVER been the type that would allow some baby-faced, unethical, cousin-screwing idiot to kill her dream. If she didn't let Lionel Luthor kill it, how did Julian, the freaking Luthor clone, strip it from her?! I guess in the same alternate reality where Lana is conniving and sneaky enough to outsmart Lex AND Lionel.

This is my head exploding.



I want him to be, does that count?



Seriously, our last cast shots are old. We had full ones in S1, S2, S4, and S6; partials in s3, some image campaign in s5, and mostly of Laura in S7. Going by the even series numbers, it's time for a full cast shot and some new group shots.



Right. Notice Lex's influences started creeping into the Planet that we know of around Fallout and it keeps growing from there (my guess is by Fallout they started putting in pieces to 'prolong' whatever they thought they had left) to the point where it's needed to clean him out.



Yes, and so we all called the firing long before it happened. But they needed the firing to stay in Descent so Lex could get the keys and definately kill Lionel. So since we have to see Chloe adrift for a while what is the other way to run her down/show Lex triumph over here? After all she was already fired! Added in the hacking for Clark/Ollie/humanity and the arrest now to show Lex went and beat the heroes. I think the strike and the extra episodes and the time crunch hurt. There was no good way for Lionel to leave her that key and Lex not to fire her, there was no other good place to hide that key given what they had filmed already for Veritas, and they needed Chloe to have it.

It actually reminds me of th Tess and Jimmy scene. We just set up his deal with Lex so we can't drop it so we've got to insert something else here to do the same or a similar thing.

I didn't comment about the new cast, but I know the guy casted for Doomsday is a good actor. I'm looking forward to seeing what he'll do with this opportunity. I've never seen the actress playing Tess in anything I can remember, but I hope she's good. She's not the drop dead gorgeous temptress that I thought we were getting, but she does look like she could play the rich bad girl.

Now, about the change in roles. No..no.. NO! A emt? The Hell? Stupid decision. Why have him go around saving people? Its not like some shock value is being built up for his "turn", they already spoiled who he is. I would have perfered the bartender thing, at least from the Ace of Clubs we could have gotten all of the cast interacting with him and each other. But thats out the door thanks to Cousin Oliver. How are they going to have Davis interact with everybody now? Is everybody going to keep getting injured and be rushed to the hospital he works for? This is a bad decision. Oliver threw everything for a loop.



Exactly, the Ace O' Clubs (as its called in Superman mythos) is the main hotspot in Superman Cannon. Everybody goes there. I liked how SV introduced it and was looking forward to it being a set next season. Its much more adult than the Talon, which hardly is used even being used anyways. Can't remember the last scene I saw in it. I hope they turn the Talon into the Ace O' Club at least.

After a little bit of thought, I've realized that making Doomsday a paramedic is a bad idea. A bartender, in hindsight, was actually a good idea.

Being a paramedic actually requires him to have gotten an education, a college degree, meaning he'd have to have grown up as a normal child. That just doesn't sit well for me. He's Doomsday for Ra's sake. You know, an alien experiment killed over and over and over again until all he knew was hatred? It's just a really far stretch.

At least as a bartender he could've been hired after he arrived on Earth with amnesia. That and we could still call him Doomtender.

Well you can be the editor of a major newspaper when you're 15 on this show.

I do agree that the bartender fits more from what we know about the character. The profession, even in the brightest lit club ever, just seems to fit the "broody and mysterious" angle they'd want to go for. But I still think they want to go for the "tragedy" angle of him wanting to help people but killing them as well as the aforementioned (I forgot the poster, sorry) Lois browbeating Clark with the "Look what he's doing with his life! Helping people!" angle.

No more Doomtender? No more "bartending in the dark" jokes? Aw, color me disappointed. :(

I think Doomtender should get a new job every week!

Doomsday could be like the Pretender!

Doomtender lives!

He and Lana could form a mutual admiration society. Lana could talk about her many talents like cheerleading, coffee shop managing, art, being a master criminal while DMT could talk about bartending, being a medic, a circus clown, a stripper . . .

No! But Doomtender is the best thing about his character (aside from the fact that he was on BGS, which equals awesome)! I like Bloomsday well enough, but I hate the EMT thing. Like CTUN said, it's Ben and Glory all over again even more now.

He'll probably show up at the scene of a crime he committed and have a talk with Lois (who is there reporting or something) about it. He'll be suspicious of himself already, and she'll make some comment about how she can't believe how evil some people are, and he'll be all withdrawn...

Whatever.

Tess Mercer. Hm. So she's Mercy and Tessamacher. I still think they were trying to get the rights to Mercy herself and weren't able to for some reason, thus the name mash.

My Logan love would have made me love the character, that's for sure.

Catching up on all this and... Wow. I mean, I thought they were ripping off Buffy with the normal bartender with the split personality. And now they're putting him in medicine, too? PS3, y'all really need to find something of your own.

On another note, them changing him from the bar, already established as a Lois kind of place (snicker) to the medical field makes me think they might indeed be planning on involving him more with Chloe (with her healing and all) rather than Lois. With Arctic, bringing it back to the forefront, I think there will be more to do with the healing body secretions (will they ever fully explain how that works?) in s8.

And I'm not sure how to feel about any of it.

And Tess. Another blonde? Couldn't they have added some variety? I would like to see a black girl or an asian girl. Whole cast is just too damned caucasian. Added to that, she doesn't give off powerful and seductive to me. She looks like someone that should wear pastel skirts and run with puppies in an allergy med commercial.

Actually, I think the core traits are summarized every week in the opening credits:
Clark - Hero (who gets hurt)
Lex - action/villainy (hoyay Zod shot, exploding tunnel, walking thru 33.1)
Lana - love interest w/ dichotomy (AU hug of Clark being the uber-sweet/shooting off the lock as a Luthor)
Chloe - journalist/sidekick (walking into the DP w/ her box, saving Clark from the vine lady)
Lois - T&A kickass gal (gratuitous swimsuit shot, red pleather kickbox)
Jimmy - photog/supporter (the green vial save in Crimson)
Kara - newbie supergirl (superpowered elevator door opening/flying)
Lionel - action/danger (train jump)

Journalism is a core trait to Chloe S1-7, attempting to retcon it away to sugar coat what they've done won't change history. Doesn't mean they won't change it but it's been there. Now they changed Lana's opening credits to have that dichotomy of good/dark so they have shown a character's core trait permanently change in the past. What will be telling IMO is what happening in the S8 credits.

Speculating on this years' scene:
Clark - more hero stuff (who gets hurt) - none of the hero stuff can be w/ Lex or Lana so it may stay the same but I wouldn't be surprised to see the Traveler pain instead of S2 phonebooth - could also get the Rachel Davenport twirling save vice little boy save but that may require some approval of Christina Milan -- in which case, no.
Chloe - I bet they focus on sidekick -- if she's still walking into the DP w/ her box then journalism is not over
Lois - I bet they throw in the AU carry, keep one boob shot (pleather or swimsuit) and maybe have her holding the gun in Gemini
Jimmy - James bondo shot added is my guess
---then the new adds ----
Ollie - Green Arrow shot and business suit shot
Tess - powerful business lady shot, something sexy and maybe an action shot
DMT - lifesaving shot and some brooding look shot

I think they horribly handled Chloe's shift but this lame theory that she's moved on from journalism is probably what they are after. I suspect we'll have confirmation of this change to her core trait in the opening credits of S8.

I don't think that's the case, I think the case is, Oliver is coming back, so they need the apartment set for him. And thus no set for Doomedic other then a Ambulance and Smallville Medical Center, considering Metropolis General Hospital is currently renovating.

I think making him a paramedic and the killer is a meta for what will happen, and I do think it involves Chloe.

Doomedic will kill Clark, Chloe will save him.

I would have to disagree. To me, this is like saying is is a matter of opinion that Clark is the hero, Lex is the villain, Lana is the love interest or Martha is the mom. These are major, major parts of the characters, and changing / removing them is a pretty big deal IMO.ITA. Now, PS3 may well pull a Not!Baby, say everything has been explained, and Chloe is done as a reporter so Lois, Jimmy and Clark can have the Daily Planet to themselves. It is shitty writing, but it would not be surprising. But to say Chloe's love of journalism over the life of the show is not a core trait is a pretty big retcon, one that disregards a lot of what has been shown on the air.

If this is what is going to be done, PS3 does not just get a pass from me. Especially since the change seems to be largely motivated by a the needs of other characters (Lois, Jimmy, and Clark) rather than anything based on Chloe. YMMV.I'm not familiar with any other version of Superman where Lois Lane by age 21 (or so) has banged GA or a Luthor clone. Or where is lacks a high school education, or was hired at the Daily Planet based on unsupported rantsing about a UFO. Whatever Lois does or does not do in Futureville doesn't get ehr a pass from me, the same way I do not excuse Clark's occasional BDA behavior just because he is supposed to becomes Supes at some point. YMMV.

I also disagree with the argument that it is a good thing for Chloe to have "moved on" from the Daily Planet. If Chloe is moved beyond the Daily Planet, they why is it so great for Lois, Jimmy and Clark? Or is it great for the "canon" characters to be at the Daily Planet, but OK to kick Chloe to the curb because her being there does not line up with the comic books? IMO, Chloe's professional status is the least of the problems this show will have matching any other verison of Superman. Sadly, those unique traits seem to be cowardice, fear of the villain, removal of any identity not connected to Clark or Jimmy and a total lack of emotion at anything in her life. And the ToS. Not exactly an improvement IMO.

I also really dislike the idea that Chloe had to go because Lois was the "iconic" figure. This may have made sense in season four or five, but to make drastic character changes this close to endgame is, IMO, the Spirit dance all over again. It feel unearned - Lois needs to be a reporter at the Daily Planet, so show logic and continuity are thrown aside in favor of getting it done. Lois needs to look good, so the competition (Chloe) is thrown out the door. This kind of contrived logic sucked back in season four, and it sucks now. I do not like Lois more because she is at the Daily Planet or offering Clark a job. YMMV.Well put, BP.

Actually, I can't figure out why they continue to make these mistakes. I don't believe for a minute that they have some long term plan in place. If we can figure out more palatable approaches to achieve their contrived ending, why can't they?

Why bring Chloe back? Do they really believe Chimmy is the crowd pleaser? If they brought Chloe back because they don't think the Lois they have can hold up the show with Clark, why continue on with their same vector? It's like one part of TPTB have a survival instinct and the other does not. The mismash we see on screen seems to be mostly driven by those reckless with character development.

I really wish they'd get a few new writers. Some folks who would say "wait a minute... plot X is not plausible". It seems like they have some serious groupthink going and haven't got anyone providing them a reality check.

I guess it depends. If Chimmy is just a stalling tactic, I understand why it's there (although I think the writers have a tendency to drag stalling out waaaaaay too long, but that's another discussion). If Chimmy is genuinely supposed to be a big romantic story, then I don't find it compelling or interesting, personally. Similarly, if Chloe has been removed from the DP by a villain just so she has to fight her way back, that's great, and standard storytelling, really. But if she's really been just sloppily tossed out to make way for another character with less history with the DP, then that does not work for me AT ALL.

However, what it boils down to is that right now, we really don't know what the writers plan (and neither, I imagine, do the writers, until they actually start breaking scripts). Right now, I'm still hopeful that Chloe will find her way back into journalism and the Planet, and that Chimmy isn't going to be around forever. If I'm wrong, it's no skin off my nose, because I won't continue watching if Chloe's shunted into some other profession, and in my head and fanfics, she'll stay right where she belongs:-). Fanon often seems better thought out than canon, frankly, and I don't mind getting my SV fix through fanon if necessary.

I guess I'm saying I agree that the writing on this show has some serious issues, but until we actually know where they're going (and we won't know that till the show ends, I suppose), it's hard to say just how bad it is. Their plans (and I do believe they have them, in a rough form) may be better than we think. Hard to say for sure. As usual, I'll continue to hang out in the optimist corner till the writers club me into total submission:-).

ETA: And with regards to the storyline not making sense, an awful lot of people speculated Chloe would be fired most of a season before it happened. So to me, that's an indication that the story sometimes does go where we expect it to, albeit in a jerky fashion. Hence, I will continue to believe Chloe's heading back to the Planet and journalism, rather than slinking away in disgrace. YMMV:-).

ME TOO!!!!!!!!

They cannot, cannot cannot possibly end this show without Lex. Are they crazy??? I don't care how they do it: give Michael a bald cap or something...I don't care if I see a hair line on Lex Luthor, I just want him back. This series MUST close off with Lex and Clark.

MUST.




They'll probably use this situation to drop alot of anvils for Clark and Lois. I can see all the talks that Clark and Lois will have about Doomtender (similar to the ones about Ollie)

Clark: "Lois, there is another side to him..you need to be careful..."
Lois: "Clark! Why are you always so interested in my love life! If I didn't know better I would think you are jealous!"
Clark: "But Lois...."
Lois: "SHH! Zip it! Look at what he is doing with his life! He's saving people! Something you could never understand, living the simple life of a farmer!"

Later on when all about Doometender comes to light:

Lois, crying on Clark's shoulder....
Lois: "What is it about me and these guys? First Olliver, then Davis.....My love life is doomed! I don't think I can handle a guy wth a double life! *sob*"

Clark gives Lois a hug, and anvils rain from the sky by the bucket.

I'll bet $20 bucks that we will get a scene like this by season's end.

Brooding loner who's basically a good guy trying to help people who has a darkness that might explode at any moment.

Sounds more like a Hulk ripoff now.

On the other hand, I think Dr. Doomsday would be an excellent sitcom spinoff.



Yep. That was pretty much my prediction as well:

I think Chloe's started to veer away from it all ever since she learned she was a meteor freak, which would be in Season 6. Chloe really has lost a lot of her drive since then, or at least has a very different focus, at least IMO. To have her not want to be back at the Planet is not surprising to me.



There are several reasons to bring Chloe back. For one, the writers mentioned when doing book interviews that Chloe is a necessary character as the "outsider"/the "everyperson." Who wouldn't want to be Superman's best friend and confidante? Even with the meteor freak power I agree that Chloe is one of the most relatable if not the most relatable character to the audience.

Two, the character and the actress have huge followings. Maybe going back to the relatable thing.

And then finally... and I remember this coming up a lot when it looked like AM was not coming back... if Allison was not returning, aside from KK's episodes, that would leave Tom as the ONLY actor from the Season 1 cast shot who'd make it all the way through. That's kind of depressing. Keeping AM and Chloe is a way to keep the show familiar with characters that people like. (Note I am in no way negating the appeal of Lois/Jimmy/Oliver/etc., I'm speaking in a way of "going back to S1")

I think she is still very much into journalism - just not the tabloid journalism Nois relishes. After she found out she was meteor infected and Lex used her mother, Chloe was ready to write an expose (a real one) on Lex. As usual, Lana was the DiD and Clark/Chloe had to wait to get Lana out of harm's way. Then Lana faked her death; Chloe's power kicked in and, sadly, revived Nois; Lana came back; Grulian (Lex's Plan B) came to the DP bringing Nois with him. The mood of the Planet shifted. Under Grulian, tabloid journalism was touted as the best way to sell papers but Chloe still managed to get articles published while Nois banged the boss in the closet; reporters were fired and Chloe worked harder, putting in overtime (and declining to help "Clark" in "Gemini" because of her work); then Lex took over the DP; and unjustly fired Chloe. In all this, not once did I hear/see Chloe say/show she was done with truth-seeking and journalism. If anything, s8 is the time for Team Clark to get the Planet back to its glory days so Chloe (and Clark) can be proud of working there again. YMMV.

I agree that this is almost certainly why they wanted to keep her. If they couldn't hang onto any character besides Clark who'd been there the whole series, it wouldn't look like "Smallville," but like a spinoff. So it makes sense to keep Chloe around. But IMHO, shifting her out of journalism would tend to negate that by changing her character's focus dramatically and not making her such a familiar character. Even if you feel that reporting hasn't been a "core trait" for her since season six, it's still clear that she's been shown at the Daily Planet in most of her scenes for the past three years. She has been The Daily Planet Reporter of the show, and taking her entirely out of that environment would make the show so different that I'm not sure what the point would be in keeping her around. Again, IMHO.

I know that I personally do not want to see a Chloe who's not a journalist. I'm not going to argue that every Chloe fan thinks exactly as I do, but for me, moving her out of journalism is simply not going to work. When I go back and rewatch episodes like "Progeny," I see the writers making journalism too deep-rooted a part of her character for them to simply drop her onto another path, and I hope they won't do that. YMMV.



And that's a great point. The writers have taken pains to show us Chloe working overtime at the Planet this past season, just as they always have. They haven't made any sort of effort to show us that she's no longer into journalism and bringing the truth to the people. Having her relieved to get out from under the villain's thumb is not the same as having her happy to leave journalism entirely. Again, YMMV.

As one I am really on the edge of being able to support her anymore. The way Grant treated her was "okay" because we presumed she would get her eventual victory. Instead? It was just a gratuitous slap in the face to promote Lois.

Sorry. I understand what's being sold here and I'm not buying. Seems to me like they are going to try and string Chloe fans along for ratings but they have no intention of retaining the respect for the character that made her relatable in the first place. I'm not saying that she even had to stay in journalism but the way they put her out was so horrible that they're stuck trying to throw alternate "good" moments for the fans --- which are coming up LAME. Chimmy is LAME, not worthy of the character, and no substitute for a career in journalism.

By leaving Grant's comments "stand" -- which is what they will do if Chloe doesn't recover some form of journalism --- they've permanently marred the character as weak. Threatening to hit in the head with a stapler and leaving it at that was not the "fire in the belly", tenacious teen we fell in love with back in S1. The Chloe we relate to would have proven him wrong -- with a comeuppance for the smarmy ass that was cheer-worthy.

If the writer's are saying Chloe's "torch has gone out" then the character needs redemption. They've denied us that redemption because they threw her out of the DP and now it's claimed that is a good thing. Bull. It's only good because it helps Lois.

Which results in:
1) disenfranchisement from the series for Chloe fans
2) enmity towards Lois

Good plan writers.

They're on a short leash with me and this dialog only increases expectations are they are going to fail. And I think I'll leave it at this.

I can definitely see a paramedic being fascinated by the girl who can't die.

They could have a really interesting storyline with these two. So of course he'll be hanging out with Lois a lot.

Craig, in addition to what you said I'd go on to say all this season the writers have been throwing out blunt remarks about how much Chloe has changed, and I'm talking about on-screen and in language thats short and to the point.

All throughout last season Chloe has been shown, told, and scolded for losing her journalistic passion and hasn't done anything to prove anybody wrong. She's been given leads and doesn't do anything with them, she's stopped asking questions about things that she would normally jump over, she's been shown to look the other way from the strange and unusual, she's given away evidence that she normally would have kept for herself only, and because her best friend is an alien and that she herself has an abnormal ability she's resorted to actively hiding the truths she learns. She's no longer the truth exposer, she's the secret keeper.

Chloe in second half of season 6 and all of season 7 has changed, and the writers have made it clear, on screen and in writing. So clear that Chloe is given nicknames like podChloe. Why would the writers go back to what she was in seasons 1-5? How is going backwards good story-telling? To me its not.

This is not about the writers taking away who Chloe is next season, its about the producers and the writers having their endpoint- and some of the audience having their own. They've shown onscreen that they are moving Chloe away from her previous desire/career and onto something more meaniful. Change has happened to all of the characters on the show, and no character are the same as they were in the Pilot. The Chloe from season 1-5 is long gone, there's no going back. Time to look forward and hope that Alison will get a fitting end to her character.

Because the Chloe in those seasons was passionate and likeable and not the shell of a person she is now. It's not going backwards to give life back to a dead/dying character. It's not going backwards to realized problems with the character and fixing them. How is it going backwards to give Chloe some reason to live other than cheerleading Clark and Jimmy? If she's stopped being inquisitive, if she's stopped caring, and she has nothing to take its place other than being quiet and typing at a computer than it already is backwards.

For a hero like Chloe is "supposed" to be, what's happened to her isn't her choice. She hasn't chosen to give up journalism. She hadn't "decided" journalism isn't for her at the time of Kara. How is it good storytelling for the hero's sidekick to be told what a useless waste of a desk she is by a villain without her redeeming herself? It makes her look weak.

I was just thinking that Chloe getting some sort of healing powers was inevitable in this story. I know SDK might have planted the idea for her getting a power, but I think once the shows producers realized that "Doomsday" and the Death of Superman was so well known and something they could use (even if they hadn't got permission to use the real Doomsday, they would have had a stand-in, IMO) Chloe getting healing powers was inevitable. Now, added to this they have Doomie being a paramedic, a savior yet capable of killing Superman.

I LOVE that they chose Chloe when they had this storyline in mind, but I LOATHE the execution of it.

We don't know how long Doomie is going to be around for, do we? I wonder if this will happen - maybe mid-season?

I do think you could say Chloe's lost some of her fire. But within the realms of good storytelling, losing one's fire isn't a good thing. Clark has lost his fire for his powers and heroism (what he had, at least). I think it's essential that he get it back, that he understand how vital he is to the world and realize he loves helping people. If Lois is Lois (I'm a Chloiser, so for me, that's not a given), I think it's vital to the story that she get back the credibility she lost with (at least a portion of) the audience during the GroisGate debacle, and she needs to displace compentency, not luck. These characters are on a journey.

If Chloe decides to join the JLA, that's fine (from a general storytelling perspective), as long as it's her passion and we see it. A heroic character should never be forced out of her dream job, only to settle for something else. I don't accept that she's just done, when we haven't seen it. We've seen her work hard at that "black hole" to keep a job she's wanted since she was a kid. The loss of her interest "in journalism" and the loss of that fire really started showing itself once the Luthors infected the Planet this season. If the two weren't connected, then fine. But since they were, from a logical storytelling perspective, the hero beats the villain, and Chloe gets her job back.

Grulian was a Lex clone with Luthor implanted memories. Nothing he said could be taken at face value. He was a lying, sleazy, scumbag who was put at the DP to trash it. He'd hardly even met Chloe and already he was trying to embarrass her in front of her co-workers and family.


I have no idea where this is coming from.

If "what she deserves" is to get out of Nois' way, it's lousy storytelling. She has to "act a certain way" within the characterization she's had throughout the series. If Clark decided he wanted to dance ballet, there would be an uproar (yay or nay is debatable). Chloe is The Reporter and Truthseeker on the show and no amount of Nois has the name is going to change that for me.

I'd love to see that.

Keep it about the show, please, and not the fans.

Also, about 90% of this discussion is about the past, with a little speculation thrown in. It's fine to bring up past events when speculating about the future, but if you're talking mostly about the past, there are other threads where doing so would be much more on-topic.

I don't see why they couldn't. I'm sure the writers would have had plans A and B set up at least in their heads wrt to Chloe's end. Plan A if AM didn't come back or Plan B if she did. Decent set it up perfectly and than Arctic later on. If AM didn't come back, well they had set up with why she wouldn't be in the DP anymore and why she would be in Smallville anymore. If she did, well than you have it set up for Chloe to fight her way back into the DP while her and Clark tried to redeem it.

Pretty much. In the end, I think saving the DP from Luthor corruption got shoved over into season 8 because of the strike and the need to deal with Lana and then Lex's storylines. If AM wasn't around, then Clark and Nois would have to be the ones to accomplish rescuing the DP; but since AM is back, I think all the issues regarding her and the DP will have to be brought back to the fore because rescuing it is going to be such an important part of the season for her and Clark.

ETA: Any one know what's happening with the possibility of an actor's strike?

I haven't heard anything about them possibly resuming filming early in the event of one; I do know people seemed back at work writing earlier this year than usual, but it could just be to get acquainted with the new regime.

So, enough about if Chloe will fight her way back to reporting for the moment. What do folks think Lois' arc will be? Lex has set up Jimmy to set up Lois up on a wild goose chase. What will come of that?

She'll end up unconscious, wind up at SV medical centre and meet Doomie and forget about Lex and the wild goose chase.

ta daaaaa.....



Oh, ok, thanks for that, but I meant in general if it was looking more likely that there was going to be one.

I think it really depends on how well planned Lois's arc is. I still feel like something more solid was planned for the latter half of S7 but the strike knocked it off course.

Oliver's return will probably have something to do with things; if they want to move forward, Lois has to refuse to get involved again, but that's unfortunate, because unlike say the Chimmy, ED and Justin have amazing chemistry. Maybe Oliver will buy the Planet, and Lois will have to deal with her ex-boyfriend being her boss... who knows.

I sometimes also have concern about how much they can develop a character with only 13 episodes. It's funny because I could have made do with only 13 of Lex for S8, but he's already established. Lois, I feel, is still growing.

I still think the restrictions are placed on them by DC to keep from going Clois, but I'm sure there will be anvils... especially in the final episode.

As for Jimmy... I see him trying to impress Tess for sure, especially as long as she is at the Planet running Lex's affairs. I hope he teams with Lois more. I also think it's time to give up on the Chimmy thing but it seems the writers love to write it and think we like it more than we do. I don't think we'll see a Chimmy wedding... that would make Jimmy a divorcee/widower before he's even met Superman, and that's just weird.

Lois has been here since S4, it's not my prob that the writers didn't do well with the time they already have. It's not like she just arrived.

IA. If they wanted her to grow and be relatable to the audience, then they could have written her like that. Instead, she's sleeps with her boss and doesn't even get why that's wrong.



Yikes. I want to say I hope they avoid her getting involved with her boss again, but honestly, who knows.

Sounds like something we've already seen... a retread of Grois. I wonder who'll use the stairs?

To me, the "Lois is still developing / growing / getting established" argument has long since passed its expiration date. It's been four years and 51 episodes - how much more established does she need to be? Valuable time was wasted last season on crap like GroisGate, and Lois being the dumber half of the J-Lo team. Hell, the writers decided to have Grulian hire Lois, start banging her, and the epic lesson she learned was ... relationships are hard.

I have zero interest in watching Lois "grow" next season - Lois needs to hit the ground running. No, it is not a believable development, but at this point I will take "competent for no apparent reason" over "dumb luck, leads dropped into her lap, boob shots and new boyfriends." I hope Lois gets tied in with Tess / the Luthor story, and we see her reporting / investigating / being smarter than Jimmy.

I agree with Craig that ED and JH are very good together. I think a short, non-romance angle could be fun, especially if Ollie buys the Daily Planet. ED and AA also do the comedy well, and J-Lo keeps them both busy. Just make sure Lois does not come across like a moron in the team. I would also like some AM / ED interaction. Chloe / Lois team-ups were a highlight of season four and five for me, and would go a long way towards making up for Lois's vile "Absolutely!" line in Arctic.Great, more reasons to despise the treacherous little fuckwit. I am not sure when Jimmy became more hate-able than Lana for me.(RepairmanBob bangs head on desk.)

Can someone remind me how Chimmy is part of Chloe's happy ending? Has he literally fucked her brains out, as well as her ambition and spirit? If there is going to be any chance that I do not fast forward through Jimmy scenes next season, Chimmy needs to die. Also, no more Jimmy-centric episodes. Jimmy Olsen ain't going to boost the ratings, IMO. YMMV.

It's weird, because... regardless of how it's written, onscreen it looks like Allison plays it as if Chloe's heart is not totally in Jimmy. So, I don't know how that's part of her "happy ending." I really don't think they're going to go there.

I don't mind Jimmy being a fuckwit; Jimmy Olsen has ALWAYS been a fuckwit. He's imperfect; he's been the same in the comics ever since his creation. Yeah, he's always been Superman's Pal but he's always getting himself into trouble, and that's part of what works for the character IMO. Even the Jack Larson and Marc McClure versions were kind of doofuses, and Michael Landes (whose Jimmy I loved) still would do things like trying to score with the models who are taking pictures at the Daily Planet, or trying to score with Cat Grant.

I'd like to see Lois reacting to Grant being dead and finding out all that went on there, but that ship has sailed and I don't think they'll regurgitate that storyline at all.

I think Doomie as LI is more likely the way they're going with that. Tess will probably be introduced as the third part of the Ollie/Nois/Tess triangle. Honestly, the capacity I see her in either the Doomie & Tess storylines is as a LI or third of a triangle. Or both. Or something like that anyway.

I think he will. Hopefully his role will start to resemble the one from "Apocalypse" because that's what his role should be. He should be a little less familiar with Lois and when they're teamed together, she should definitely be the lead. We'll see. I think the show may have been suggesting that with the AU though. Then of course, Clark will be part of their investigation too. Whether to throw them off-track or to save the day, without credit. I think the show will get Clark involved with the Daily Planet possibly like that: by having him be what Lois and Jimmy write about, without knowing it. Then they can also have anvils galore when Lois and Jimmy talk to Clark about it or shrug him off like he couldn't possibly be helpful. You know, the show being "clever" again. Only not really.

As far as Lois and Grant. I thought that was a ridiculous way to get Lois onto the DP payroll too. I will say though that her being in a relationship with her boss isn't entirely the problem. Even though it's delicate, it's possible the show could've danced around it, with Grant being attracted to her and Lois resisting her own. Of course the show didn't go that way, but knowing that this was supposed to be some His Girl Friday take, have any of you ever watched it? It's a wonderful film, and for Smallville to try and be inspired by it, well, I'm not surprised it failed in execution. As it more than often does. However, I will say that I think the "relationship" and falling out between Lois and Grant was maybe seen as "OK" by the writers because of the Hildy and Walter relationship in His Girl Friday. There, they had 5 years together before they got divorced, but when Hildy went to work for the paper, she and Walter weren't together. So, we have to assume that at some point, Walter, her boss, asked her out, and at some point, Hildy said yes. There's an exchange in the film that goes like this:

Now clearly, Hildy had A LOT more cred going into her newspaper than Lois does. But, this show speeds most everything up, aside from all that it chooses to stall (like development at a molasses pace). Grant and Lois were handled terribly and I'm amazed the writers can't put together something better ever, but maybe they felt that His Girl Friday gave them the "couple" to work with. Why they chose to go that route, focusing on them getting together, versus another, say Hildy and Walter fighting like mad, I've no idea. I just thought I'd bring that up when it comes to Grant and Lois and given what is known of how the writers "adapt" classic storylines, maybe it's no wonder they screwed it up?

There's a difference between being the dim-witted pal of Superman who always needs rescuing and to quote Bob, the utter fuckwit he's been on this show. It doesn't work for the character, IMO, it makes me actively loathe the little fucker and be incredibly glad he and Clark are not friends and have been kept far away from each other.

The good news is they don't need to develop Lois. It's not logical or consistant with the way they've told the story so far. What they do need to do is show us if she's ever going to take Lex down, or if she will blunder into her death as many expect. So I would tend to assume she blunders into Chloe's arrest, gets shot by DDS agents (because they are really Lex minions), meets her paramedic and flirts with him as she makes her recovery. Sort of Adam Knight redux. Because redux is what these guys like to do. Lois' modis operandi is to get very close to catching a clue about the main storyline without ever actually making any connections. So I expect to see her persuing false leads on Lex while not listening to Ollie's warnings about Doom, or noticing the signs about Doom.

I still think it possible that Doomsday kills Lois and Chloe in this version of the story. Especially if Doomie turns out to be a 33.1 creation. So Lois would stumble upon the proof she finally needs, but it would include the realization that her boyfriend is a monster. It would sort of line up with Action, with doing what nobody expects. Then of course we have a variation on the multiple Supes theme, when we wonder which Lois will be back to end the story. I will not be putting money on this though.