Besides Chlois fans (when even there you got your believers and supporters), truly how many people believe Chlois is the endgame. Non-Chlois fans believe it's never going to happen. The average viewer who doesn't pay as much attention to detail probably isn't going "I see they're setting up Chloe to be Lois".

So Chlois is still twist regardless if there's a faction that holds to the theory.

Not everyone buys the companion books.


No it wasn't. She was impressed by Superman, she fell for him because of his heroics and such. If EDLois followed that line, she'll only love Clark because he's superman, and not for Clark Kent. That's Shallow and Clark deserves better, he doesn't need another Lana.


Well I hope reporting is stuck in there unless they decide to tell fans of the character, "This isn't the Chloe you've been watching, she's someone entirely different."

Cause quite frankly Chlois is to keep Chloe as Chloe, as the reporter of the show, as Sidekick and confidante to Clark all the roles ILL has.

Even if someone does not buy the books, that still doesn't make Al's words invalid.

exactly


Even so, doesn't mean his words should be taken as gospel either. AL is known for half-truths.

It doesn't. But it also doesn't make it that later on Al won't change his word and said that it was the plan all along. Or many other countless scenario that pop up. AlMiles word on Chlois is not the end all be all of the show. That is going to be decided on the very last episode of Smallville.

Why when the DP is corrupted?

See, I think this is just another example of the comics failing to flesh with the show, because in SV, Nois' negative experience with GA and her very firm stance on never again wanting a relationship with a superhero type is clear indication that Nois would NOT be interested in Superman at all. If Nois was in love with Oliver but backed away because of his alter ego, why in the world would she even look twice at Superman? What makes him different? She never really had a window into GA's activity, had no bones about his ethics or moral code (not that she should've either way). It wasn't as if she took issue with something specific about GA that she simply couldn't get past. It was just the fact that he had this dangerous, HUGE identity that she was very clear about not wanting to be involved with. Because she'd already fallen in love with Oliver, I can accept that Nois might waver and fall prey to old feelings when he does return in S8, but for Nois to be bowled over by a totally new hero (one with a MUCH dorkier costume) just because...of what...seems totally OOC for the SV version of the character.

Which is why having her fall for Clark first makes more sense...and why I am nervous about what S8 will bring. I love the Chlois theory and I do ship Chlark, but Al's statement sort of rings that death knell, does it not? I mean, I'm not totally jumping ship, but it's a "wow" statement for me too, SueB.

That's great for comics and movie Lois. She didn't know Clark before hand and was getting his bumbling act.

For SV!Lois, that shit ain't going to cut it. She's known Clark for four years. She's the known the Clark that is neither bumbling nor geeky.
So for Lois to all of a sudden fall for Superman, makes her such a shallow bitch. She's going to fall for Clark only because he's Superman. Plain and simple.

Exactly, based on Siren and that powerful scene, it shows Lois is only falling for farmboy Clark, but if he becomes heroic should be a turn off.



Word


No it doesn't. He's not in charge anymore. So when they go Chlois, (no longer if based on what we've seen in Season 7) he'll say "It wasn't my idea, be mad at the new people in charge"

But based on articles, reports, posts from Craig himself, AlMiles haven't been involved in the show for a while now, because they would have other projects and such.

Wait... so Clark is Scarlett O'Hara? I may have pee'd my pants -- that is so perfect.



Color me confused. Clark didn't get "in" to the DP at all, Lois brought him an application. Heaven forbid that that weak scene at the Kent farm was Clark Kent's historic entry into the DP. I can see it now ... S8 starts with a time jump and Lois yelling at Clark the intern to move faster to bring him her files. I hope I'm just joking.

Regardless, what I think you're saying is that the "feeling that the writers think Chloe moved on from the Daily Planet" was really a formal post-strike plotline to intentionally move Chloe out of the way of Lois as the sole female major character at the Daily Planet so we can have "Lois and Clark at the Daily Planet". If that is what they think they executed at the end of S7, they did a poor job. Some die-hard Clois fans have defended Lois' actions in Arctic but most folks have thought it was pretty poorly handled. Further, it would appear they came up with this plotline while AM was in negotiations. So, they intended to execute this with or without Chloe's return. This once again re-emphasizes that they undervalue Chloe's character. Only when they realized they might actually have to write SV without her did they realize they probably should have her back because she is a crutch they lean on.

There is nothing here that says she absolutely will never be in journalism again, but if it was a formal plot to move her out to make way for Lois -- she's not getting back to the Daily Planet in my mind.

It's indicative of another change in their minds for the storyline IMO, and another way where what they say doesn't match what we see onscreen.

A while ago Craig posted the following in the Spoiler thread. It caused much confusion as to where it should be discussed, and in light of the current discussion, I'm posting it here because it does seem to fit:



Bold for emphasis. I took it to mean that nothing is certain for season 8, most certainly not Chloe's endpoint from season 7. And if Clark *isn't* in the DP; and to me didn't think much of Nois' callous "offer" and thought of Chloe first, it seems like somethings have changed behind the scenes. Heding their bets, maybe - we don't know how long this contract stuff was going on behind th scenes before we got official word etc.

SueB, we also have to take into consideration that the DP is corrupt. It's censored and shit, why should the historic Lois and Clark team be formed when the DP's standards are lowered and corrupted?

I was thinking he's Rose Dewitt Bukater, but I guess if you consider inflation, you'd be right. Either way, fabulous, no?

So, you must have asked him what his ending for the show was going to be and he must have told you this, right? Because he has no secrets to protect now.

OR....did he not tell you anything about how he would have ended the series and avoided giving you any concrete info? Which is what his m.o. has generally been.

Which if so, it could mean that he isn't confiding his end game plans unnecessarily especially not to someone who makes his living running a fansite and who engages in fandom. I mean that attitude that he, as a person connected to the show, should only tell people in the media or involved in fandom the information that suits his own interests and the interests of the show such that providing the information doesn't cost them anything.

SDK had a quote about how he lied to the fans all the time when asked about his plans and he didn't get how they would be upset about that. He felt himself perfectly entitled to avoid spoiling his plans at all costs.

And I am reminded also of something Joss Whedon said on the topic of writers/producers being asked about their work, "Trust the story, not the storyteller."

Also? Al's style has generally been to be "cute" or at least "cute" in his own mind. He tries to answer in half truths so that you have to pay attention to exactly what he said. SDK used similar tactics when he would engage in Buffy fandom regularly and pissed people off a lot with that. I remember specifically someone asking Al about Chimmy breaking up and he said something like "but how could we break Jimmy's heart like that." It wasn't a yes or a no, it was an avoidance answer. Likewise, the answer yes or no could depend on how the question is phrased. There are certain folks who are naturally inclined to not be forthright. They are the "depends on what the meaning of the word is is" type folks. To me, Al is one of them and one would have to be direct and relentless to get him to force him to give info he didn't really want to release.

Wow. I am surprised that the writers were that open about desire to push Chloe under the bus to serve the Lois's character. I mean, I always thought they would need to get rid of Chloe for Lois to look even mildly competent as a reporter, but damn.

And for the record - Lois's job offer to Clark in Arctic sucked, and made her look like a haertless bitch, IMO. If Clark takes it without a long, onscreen conversation with Chloe about her new career path, then fuck him, too. I doubt PS3 would intentionally make Clark look that bad, but when was the last time they spent a second thinking about how anything made Clark look?Then I'm gone. More adventures of BorgChloe and the BDA do not interest me even a little. Clark needs to be using his brain and acting more independently, not running to Chloe every time he scrapes his knee of forgets how to tie his shoes. Chloe needs to find her spine, her emotions, and to act like RealChloe again, not a Borg, a Pod Person, or someone popping more pills the Greg House to make it through the day. YMMV.Big word to that. We saw Lois's has major issues with with dating a hero in Siren. We have Lois knowing Clark for four years. For Lois to suddenly fall for Supes makes her a shallow airhead of the first order IMO. This is case where, IMO, Smallville has moved so far from the comic books that doing the "traingle for two" does not really work. YMMV.Does that make Lex Rhett?

I don't think the writers are under the impression that the DP is corrupt, sadly. Sure, any idiot knows that a Luthor at the helm is bad for ethics, but these are the people that wrote Nois as screwing her way into the fold. Nois brought her own special brank of reek into the DP all on her own, and I don't think Lex taking over for his cloned brother and sitting in the office that Julian and Nois had sex in (UGH) really makes it all that much worse. Personally, I think the day Dumbshit got herself a desk in the basement was the day that the reputation of the DP tanked. So I really don't trust completely that Chloe, even if she does stay away from the DP indefinitely, will come off as one who moved on to greener pastures. If they do, they'll have to address why Nois and Jimmy stayed, and why Nois tried to lure Clark to apply. If anything, I think the writers will stick a new chief in for S8 who will blahblah about bringing integrity back to the paper just to cover their asses, but I don't know that Chloe will be a part of that. Certainly I'd like her to be.

He would not reveal his ending, and said he probably would not reveal their version of ending for a long time if ever, out of respect for the people who are taking over. The new PTB do not know how Al and Miles planned to end things. However, when I asked him of "Chlois" was ever a possibility for the end, he said it was not, nor was it ever.

It might be wondered why Al would reveal something so "big" - I think it's because, to them, it might not be a big deal. If it's not something they're seriously considering, why wouldn't they throw it out there? Now, if I had asked "is it true you'd have ended the series with Clark in tights?" I'm sure that's something he would not answer. But here - there's nothing to hide, because there is no secret to protect.

(I should also point out that at the time I talked to Al, Allison had not re-signed and it didn't look like she was going to... I don't know if that information is relevant or not)

My comment from the spoiler thread up above, I believe was written when Al & Miles hadn't stepped down yet. The writer who said that specific comment is low on the food chain also, and would not necessarily know what her bosses had planned anyway.

So Lois won't ever become Chloe on the show? Awesome! Cause considering how twisted they are, they may think Chlois as, Lois becoming the Chloe Sullivan of the show


Wait, you mean hadn't stepped down in terms of letter to the fans, or what? Cause you made that statement after Arctic.


So he said it when he thought Chloe wasn't going to be in S8. Then what's the point in bringing it up then?

No!

Chloe --- Rhett
Lana --- Ashley Wilkes
Lex is........Melanie Hamilton, Scarlett's friend and yet rival for the affections of the man she loves -- also surprisingly the strongest character to many.

Is this perfect or what.

That is, of course, your own interpretation of the exchange. From our own personal experience, I know that you sometimes read situations incorrectly so I will leave room that your interpretation of Al's words and intent is not correct here. Personally, I have never found Al to be a sincere, frank person and would find it more surprising for him to give a sincere, frank answer to anything about the future of the show.

In any event, one year from now, the show will be over and the choice will be done.

To be fair, Craig indicated that Al said Chlois was "never" a plan, which would include the seasons that Allison was part of the show and was known to have been contracted through S7. And if the plan really was to end with S5, then they had to assume they'd have the Chloe character until the end. Which kind of puzzles, because S5 ended on a Chlark note, but...my head hurts.

Well it depends do you think that they are the kind of people that will try to cover their asses?

I mean if they wanted to do Chlois and the actress was not going to be there it will be horrible for their rep to know that they planned something and couldn't pulled it out because they couldn't get the actress back for the last season. But again they might be telling the true (for a change).

I still think that they like to have their cake and eat it too. They set things on a way that they could just had Nois one day wake up and become the best reporter evah! and they will say that it was the plan all allong because of mythos and things like that or they could just do Chlois and say that it was the plan all allong. Like they did with Lexana they said that that will never happen and after it happened they revealed that it was the plan all allong. So I will trust the show on this one.

But when or if the show ends without Chlois, will people be okay with that, or will they still be trying to find ways that TPTB were "lying" or "led them on?"



Yes. That is exactly how he presented it... that it was never a plan.... that from possibly even the pilot episode script, Lois Lane was Chloe Sullivan's cousin.

That is also consistent with Al telling me the same thing in February 2001 when I first spoke to him, when he let it slip out that Lois was the cousin of Chloe, so I believe him when he says it was there from the beginning.

On a Chlark/Chlois note you are right.

I think Al just said so no so people feel confidante that PS3 is keeping the flow of the series. So no Chloe, no Chlois, was never a plan, everyone can be happy.

If he said that when AM had signed, then it would have held more weight. Just like if AM had resigned when they had her fired from the DP and said they wanted her out of the DP because she's not a journalist, would have held more weight.

And now that we know the writer is low on the "food chain" What they say won't really go onscreen.

I don't think it'll be too tough of a task to find ways. There will be 8 DVD sets by then to back up the claim that TPTB led fans on. These idiots have said time and again that each episode is like it's own little movie considering the scale of the project. I think the writers and producers fancy themselves quite the artistes in that they're capabale of pulling a "fresh" new episode off each week and, to boot, even managing that sometimes they hang together. On rare occasion. Because makin' tv is HARD, y'all.

If they don't go Chlois, we'll accept it, but fucking hell, we won't like it. Smallville will go down in history as the worst superman series in history, and would acknowlege development means shit in storytelling, and that the Hero ends up with the Bitch then the heroine.

I've watched the same series for 7 years and never felt led on that Chloe Sullivan was Lois Lane... especially once a character named "Lois Lane" showed up on the show. I think it would have been an interesting notion at one point, but I think that ship has long since sailed.

My main concern as a fan is to know that the characters are well served... if Chloe has a different destiny, that would be fine... yes, I will be disappointed if it's the way she was presented in "Quest," where she was basically telling Clark he is a god... but, I like her as her own, separate character. I don't think Chloe needs to have a different name or end up with the guy in order to be worthwhile. She's a great character on her own, and in my opinion one of the best developed of the series if not the best developed.

If TPTB had been saying for years "keep watching, we have plans for Chloe to be that iconic character from the mythos," I'd get it. But year after year, Al, Allison Mack, and others have said it's not happening, and every time it's been brushed off as "they don't want to reveal their end game" or "they don't know what they're talking about." I don't think they'd hire Erica just to have her find out that her purpose on the show was totally irrelevant.

I can totally buy that Chlois is unimportant to Al Gough. He squashed on a DVD fandom thing too. He's probably surprised we bring it up.

They thought AM wasn't coming back, they sent her to jail in offscreenville after she received a proposal from Jimmy. That's there idea of a happy ending. She found love and had a man propose to her! (/sarcasm but possibly a truism for these writers) And that jail thing? Well Ollie will break her out and she'll live happily ever after in offscreenville. Chimmy ends as a tragedy that wasn't "meant to be" just like Clana. Jimmy gets to keep the bowtie. But Chloe, they had a man propose to her! So that's a good thing, right?

Yeesh. Seriously, tho... I think Al's disinterest in Chlois shows his overall disdain for anything non-Clana and acceptance of Clois as endstate. His comments to Craig are perfectly in keeping with that attitude. Yes, Al lies ... all the time (say it like Lex to Clark in Vessel)... but Craig's interviewed him enough to tell the difference. I imagine there are plenty of times Craig has shielded us from TPTB yanking our chains because he could sense the lie.

I believe it's far more likely Al just doesn't even get the Chlois concept than some elaborate ruse on his part that Craig didn't detect.

Yeah, and Delete had Chloe willing to use the name to get an article published. Chlois.

But I think it's funny should we go back to what is said in Season 1, it's Chloe who was supposed to take Clark to Metropolis with her.


Craig. Chloe's character is built on solid traits. A Journalist, Loves Clark, and Wants to be ace reporter of the DP (before the corrupted, tabloid version)

Those traits have been the core of Chloe's character. I Chlois because I don't want those to change, for her to go off with Ollie, to say screw journalism and be the watchtower, that's not Chloe.

And frankly fuck the name, I want her to have the Guy and the job.

Back on topic--Craig, do you know if anything's happened with casting of Doomtender and Tess? Are there names in the ring at all?

Also, I do wonder what sets we'll see next season. Definitely the DP, the BALLS depending on Chloe's career move...will Clark stay on the farm? Where will Oliver hang out since his penthouse is now the club?

Yes, Al does lie all the time. I do think he would probably call it being "clever" or "coy" though. Lying seems like a harsh term for it. LOL. As for Craig being able to sense a lie, I like Craig, but he has misread my own comments many, *many* times, when I felt I was being very direct and obvious. So from our own history of misunderstandings, I don't have the same feeling about whether Craig would necessarily be a great lie detector and sense when Al being insincere, especially since Al is not generally a frank and sincere person in interviews. I think Craig would even allow that he has misread people before. And Craig has often said he does "softball" questions because the interviews are done as a favor basically so he has to tread carefully. He can't grill people.

And as I said, a year from now, it will be over.

The comics discussion needs to go in the Mythos thread unless you're specifically using comics to speculate about the future of the show. Chlois stuff needs to go in the Chlois thread.

Nothing to see here, just a delusional Chlark Chlois fan who apprently sees what she wants to see

Oliver doesn't need an apartment. He'll be too busy bursting into Lex's study to accuse Tess of evil wrongdoings.

When I interviewed PS3 two weeks ago they were still in the casting process, and I noticed the next day that new casting sides had gone out, so at least two weeks ago they weren't cast yet.

I still wish they'd skip the Doomtender thing entirely.

I wouldn't be surprised if they go for unknowns, or Canadians. But no, I know nothing.

Oh great now he will have that Clark trait too! Man give him the cape and the superpowers already!

I believe that this show is masters of leading ships on and lying... all the time.

They said Clana would have a "real chance" ... LIE. Unambigous LIE. Lana was lying from the day she showed up at the Kent Farm, then after the big fight, they have two scenes in Blue and....shazaam...Bizarro. There was never an entire episode except potentially "Hero" (in offscreenville) where it appeared Clana was happy. They lead fans on and are guilty of lying. They have demonstrated that they will lie until it's over.

They said Lois would really step up to her reporter role this season .... squick is all I can say about the result. The implication was a more respectable reporter not "saucy" Lois Lane sleeping with her editor. I can see the good in Lois but TPTB promised more than they delivered. So ... they led fans on. I think Lois is Lois and TPTB have envisioned her as a "saucy broad".

As for Chloe ... "I love your son", "what you did for me goes beyond friendship", the omnipresent "you mean more to me than you'll ever know", etc.... are classic boy falls in love with his best friend kind of talk. But you know, they are NEVER going to go there. And you know what? It's leading Chlark fans on. They telegraphed their happy ending for Chloe --- and it's beyond underwhelming.

Finally, as for Chlois, further discussion will have to take place in the Chlois thread .... ETA: moved the rest of the paragraph there.

The thing I see here is that if Chloe can be relevant and well developed without the guy and the job, EDC would be the same, if she doesn't end up with ILL destiny why would that make her irrelevant as an actress or character if it doesnt hurt Chloe?

Also for Chloe to have a change of destiny as a fan I demand it at least to be well done to turn Lex evil they had several episodes revolving about that huge change on the show. I think that Chloe deserves more than a line to do so. For a character to be well developed it needs to be a journey not a LS. Chloe constants thing on this show were her love for journalism thus having her just leaving it as if it were just a hobbie kinds of kills the development she already had, YMMV.

And for the plans: Well the plan was that Chloe Sullivan was Lois Lane cousin but that cousin was supposed to be the one that inspired her to be a reporter and being wiser and older and succesfully studying journalism...that plan didn't ended up well. Really I will stick to what the show is telling us.

Just to clarify my earlier post: Speculating here about Chloe getting back into the DP is fine, as is speculating about whether she'll go back to journalism, and what role, if any, Lois would play in that. It's just the "Will Chloe become Lois/call herself Lois/be the Iconinc Woman" stuff that needs to go in the Chlois thread.

Thanks.

Honestly? I'd speculate that Mack couldn't care about that one way or the other.

You mean the comment I posted, Craig? That's from something you posted on May 16th. *shrugs*

Color me mistaken on the timeline, then. I did say "I believe" - so I can be wrong in my recollection.

Honestly, I think the writers tried to show Chloe grow more dissatisfied with the DP and happier in her work for the JLA/Clark. They just did a really bad job of it, and I would be surprised if she went back to the DP, even if Oliver ends up buying it, unless he asks her to do so.



Speaking as a shallow man...

Yes.

A Pulitzer gets you invited to a free dinner and then sits on the shelf gathering dust. A gal who will put on whipped cream for you is a LOT more fun and brings free dessert every night.

I'm sure "Want to come up and see my Pulitzer?" probably makes for a decent come on line though.

Just a tip Dread, I'm pretty sure a Pulitzer would afford most men MORE opportunites for whipped cream sex. Not sure how the sexual double standard would work on the flip side.

I'm sure this relates to Smallville some how... Oh yeah, Chloe illustrates the plight of women who try to be successfull and also have a balanced personal life. I'm thinking the cliffies get resolved pretty quickly early in the season, so probably we're due to see less whipped cream sex and more reporting. Otherwise the message is pretty crappy, but that's only my hope.

Edit: JWM, get out of my brain!

Well the problem is that if the planet is not a good place to work anymore then Jimmy and Nois dont look very good since both of them are happy to be there and try to make it up even...Are they that idiotic?



Well I can't imagine sex good enough to make it to the books of history so Pulitzer wins!



It would because the moment a woman says "Want to come up and see my Pulitzer?" he is going to believe that Pulitzer is another word for ... Heck with the come up line that girl is getting laid for sure...

Well, I just saw the latest CW promo at CW Video.. .the one shot of SV is Clark holding AU Lois in his arms ... it's Clois all the way.

Kent Brockman: Hordes of panicky people seem to be evacuating the town for some unknown reason. Professor, without knowing precisely what the danger is, would you say it's time for our viewers to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?
Professor: Mmm, yes I would, Kent.

Every year the CW promote ED - on the show however Nois is still inconsequential. Jmho.

It's the shot in Apocalypes after he scopes her up and saves her from the DDS... In a world were Lois Lane is only Lois Lane like because Clark Kent isn't there.

I'm not buying it.