I had a thought about turning Doomtender into something resembling the actual Doomsday:

What if Davis goes to Tess to get rid of Doomsday, and winds up getting DD removed only to turn into a separate entity that runs a muck?

Whoa, Omega. That... actually would make sense. A heck of a lot more than DD being a Ben/Glory thing with Doomtender.

Yeah he having some Lana clones that could carry on the pregnancy of the clonned one to term will look less stupid that notbaby. Now how was he planning to convince Lana to raise the child? Well at some point I guess he would had though that Lana loved him enough to go along with the plan...Ha! Poor bastard never standed a chance.

. . . but for the fact that when Lana is hospitalized for the supposed miscarriage, the independent physician (not Lex's MD minion) runs tests and confirms that she was never pregnant at all.

Maybe the "independent" physician was a Lionel minion. He just didn't expect it to backfire on him in the hospital bed. Or maybe he did but thought it an acceptable risk.

Yeah, since it was said she never carried a child for starters how they would explain that? Some artificial insemination with a Lana clone carrying the baby? Instead of simply make Lana carying the child?... As if this story wasn't already bizarre.

Dr. Langston has made several visits to the mansion, it's not impossible for Lana to actually have been used as some sort of incubator. She was given pills/ hormonal supplements to mimic pregnancy for test. IMHO it's a set up.

Lana can't use "Lex faked my pregnancy" for the issue just makes her look worse. I mean the doctor assumed she faked it to marry a billionaire.

The first time that Lana went to the hospital and lost the baby, Lex was with her (and maybe Lionel knew it). The Minion was in place to assist with the deception. The second time that Lana was in the hospital was in Progeny when she was attacked by an escaped Meteor Freak, so neither Lex nor Lionel knew that Lana was going to end up in the hospital that day. Lana took advantage of the situation and ordered tests herself, to see why she lost her baby.

The artificial hormones found still in Lana's bloodstream not only could be used to fake a pregnancy, but could also be the ones used to induce labor for a genuine pregnancy as well. Probably Oxytocin, or Pitocin. A dose of hormones could have been ordered to get Lana's body back on track after her delivery.

My fanwank is that Lex (or Lionel) had ordered that Lana be given some of the Healing Serum to stop her bleeding, and so there was no evidence of an injury to the uterus when the second doctor examined her.

Not to be all Dr Wizard or anything but I'm pretty sure a woman's body permanently changes with pregnancy, even in the first 8 weeks and even with failed pregnancies. The uterus and cervix both undergo physical changes immediately and I'm fairly certain it doesn't go back to a pre-pregnant look. You can't have a uterus that looks like it was never pregnant if it was. If you take the baby to full term, a discerning person can even tell without much trouble that you've had children from your hips. Even if you are a skinny minnie and go right back to pre-pregnancy weight, your hips are different, they shift and change -- they are more "loose" in the joints. It's why the "misses" fit is different from "regular". I once had a professional fitter look at me (who knew nothing of me or my history) and said "you've had babies". Now Lana didn't get very far along but if she had been pregnant for at least 3 months (and she was), I'm fairly certain uterus would have been permanently changed. Of course this is SV and they can retcon anything but if you assume that the doctor who told her she was faking was not on someone else's payroll, she was never pregnant. A healing serum wouldn't work because there is nothing to "heal" from a failed pregnancy, your body is just different.

My fanwank is that if the Healing Serum can bring Lex back from the dead and heal his chest as though an arrow had never pierced it, then it could restore Lana enough to fool the doctor on duty at the emergency room that day.

Anyone else think or has already suggested that the Brainiac/Chloe interaction in Arctic might signal the end of Chloe's power? If they were going to get rid of it, this would be a good time, in my opinion. They could explain it away as some sort of short circuit or along those lines. I wouldn't mind terribly if they went that route.

"If" being the big question there. If PS3 decide they no longer want to have that as an aspect of who Chloe is, then I do think it's the best opportunity to get rid of it. But that all depends on what their plans for her are, and imo with a new team in charge, everything is up in the air at this point.

What is PS3 Btw

The new showrunners, Peterson/Souders/Slavkin/Swimmer.

The question becomes what the doctor was basing his conclusion that she was never pregnant. After all, I would suspect that the hormone concoction that mimicked her pregnancy could have triggered real physical changes. Simply identifying the artificial hormone cocktail might have been enough for the doctor to say she was never pregnant. Certainly none of the other obstetric staff saw anything that didn't look right. While her regular docs could all be under Luthor control, the emergancy room staff wouldn't have been.

I have a freind who has had several pregnancies that according to the doctors never had an actual embrio involved. (Don't feel bad, she has three kids and asked for her tubes tied this last time.) Still her body went through the changes when all her body was reacting to was hormones and not to be to gory, in order for Lana to think she was having a miscarriage there would have to be something in her uterus to miscarry, even if it was just the unused lining.

So I don't want to rule out Tess as the LexanaNOT!baby.



I want it gone asap, but doubt they'd give it now that they have Doomtender...they might need it.



In addition to hating to have Chloe become only defined by helping Clark, I can't understand how this traslates as a good ending for Chloe since she's not around (if not for Chlois) in the future so in the end she gives up everything for Clark and doesn't even end up helping/working with him?

I'm not buying it.

I thought the Goughlar already explained it.Lex did it out of desperation for love.To make sure Lana wouldnt leave him.Personally I don't think DC would allow a Lexana baby.

And didnt TPTB gave a hint that it's a character that mythos fans know and love?

But they also said that 33.1 was done with after Jinx because it was too comic booky and that came back, as sloppy as it was. So who knows. But, FTR, I don't think Tess is the Lollipop.

But how much more twisted and Smallville if he ripped the fetus out to save Lana. Or he manufactured one like the other clone family members he has been working on.


But I know and love baby Peepex!

Actually I think they just said the character would be familiar to some fans. It's pretty unlikely that I'm going to love her if she's not Lana, Gina, or Peepex. I'm giving them several options, but probably they will take none of them. However, I don't have to worry about that for 4 months!

The staff could very well be on it, since Lex staged the ''miscarriage'' he cetainly took care of the people who was there for the ''intervention''.




It would be so anticlimatic to me. Having her powers just so it could defeat Brainiac this one time. But like PolarB said if they want get rid of this aspect of Chloe's character they might as well doing it this way. Thought I presumed that she would be used as a lab rat one of these days.

We already saw that in Freak, and to a lesser extent in Cure. What would be the point of Chloe being abducted and experimented on again? Other than more scenes involving Neanderthal!Clark smashing bitches, of course.

(Evil scientists are getting ready to poke Chloe with a giant needle, a la Freak. Clark smashes through the wall directly next to a door)
Clark: NO POKE TINY BLONDE!!!! ONLY CLARK POKE CHLOE!!!!!
Chloe: You have no idea how long I have been waiting to hear that.IMO, Al and Miles's explanation is so lame and WTF-worthy that I will cling to any retcon for NotBaby. Including Tess being a grown up NotBaby. I think it is a whole heck of a lot better than the idea Lex Luthor, sexy billionaire, was so pathetic and weak that he would feel the need to go such lengths to trick Lana fucking Lana into staying with him. YMMV.

Freak was just a set up. If Lex wanted his people to watch her at the end of the episode it meant there was other things in store, imo. As for Cure, it was just a Villain of the Week who wanted to use her for his dead wife. She may not be abducted again but I guess they plan to go somewhere with her powers.

What would be the point of Chloe having those powers with two episodes devoted to it and her wondering why she was given this gift if it's just to be resolved in Chloe saying: ''Oops. It just evaporated! Oh well... So Clark you need me to google what?''

Because that's the Smallville way. Remember Lana's Tramp Stamp? Sure it could be argued that Izzy's job was done with the death of Jason and Jenny- though clearly it wasn't since Ed survived- but she stabs her with a rock and it unceremoniously goes away never to be mentioned again?

I agree with that. What bothered me even more was that they were apparently surprised that people didn't "get" that. (At least, IIRC, that was my reading of their original quote.) And it also plays into what I mentioned above with the plotlines that either go nowhere, make no sense, disappear or is retconned completely. Same with Grulian As Clone Brother and Grant As DP Editor.

Yes. All TV shows have a few of these. Movies, too. But with SV, the plotlines that go nowhere and so on, make up too large a percentage of said plotlines. These things happen over and over, and most of us could name a good half dozen off the tops of our heads.

Well, that depends. Does that include "resolved" storylines like Fake!Baby? Quotes bolded for emphasis. If I was saying this in person, you'd be so afraid of my air quotes clawing out eyes that you'd probably run away screaming. Or laughing.

Yep, and I really don't have any expectations that anything will change because of PES3. All of this has happened before and all of it will happen again.. erm, at least until the series ends.

Back in 2006 at DeKnight's site Hope the Fembot was requested for Lex, so we were given the Lana Clone. With the exception of myself viewers hated her, so then Lex was given the living "fembots" in the forms of Black Canary and Not!Mercy/Gina (Thanks Guys!). Also at DeKnight's site there was a call for Mercy Graves, which spilled over to here. I think that Tess is supposed to be our Real!Mercy, but the more I think about her being turned into Lollipop, the more I like it. That just makes Lex Luthor so much more "crazy" and scary; a human villian really worthy of being a concern to the future Superman.

Come on PS3, rise to the Lollipop Challenge! You can do it! At least let us see Clark eating candy next season if we can't have our Lollipop.

I really do think the baby Peepex = Tess would be the best resolution to a storyline we've had in a while. It makes Lex more awesome, Tess more interesting, gives Lana both a reason to come back and a storyline that isn't about who she's currently screwing, and makes any attraction between Clark/Tess (one-sided or mutual) filled with glorious subtext.

I love it.

From Lex's POV, who else could he trust to spy on The Traveler/Clark Kent and run his estate/company? It would totally make sense that the daughter he created and brain-washed from birth would be the one he would trust to do his bidding. Plus naturally Clark would be attracted to anyone with Lex's DNA. ;~)

I keep wondering-- if Lex cloned his dead brother, might he clone his dead mother?

He should clone his childhood pet too. So whoever the villian is can be petting it all the time like a Bond villian. Chinchilla I'm thinking.

A random thought I had: I wonder if next season, tptb would do a " 5 months later" situation, where the first few episodes of the season have flashbacks etc. If done well, it could be good.

My only concern with that is-they might try to get away with alot of crap without having to explain much.

Oh, no. They'd never do that. That would be, like, irresponsible.



This would be awesome, as long as she remained loyal to Lex and hated Lana and didn't immediately go over to Team Kent as soon as they told her Lex was EVOL.

Yeah, and she'd also have to be competent. I mean, if the enemies aren't cooperating, she'd have to have the guts not to back down, and to shoot if necessary. It also would help if she'd shown she could be there for Lex in times of mental strife, and...wait a minute.

Just so this is actual speculation and not just sarcastic whining, I don't think our not!Lex (or Gi-NO, whichever you prefer) has much chance of defecting. Given the situation (no Lex) it would be difficult to engineer a situation where every single character except the unseen character is on one side. They have to have someone to represent EVOL on-screen.

I just wish Tess's bio hadn't included a mysterious history even she doesn't know about. Was it really needed for her to be evil? It seems like a Grulian flashback, but maybe it will be a way to make her more evil instead of a reason to turn away from Lex. There was spec that she'd be some alien queen looking for a mate (I forgot the name), maybe said alien dominatrex crashes to earth (losing her memory) and is rescued by Lex-perhaps even getting a brainwash treatment.

I don't know. Even worse, I barely care.

Sigh...I miss Lex.

Lex created for his clones a past life with amusing childhood memories, and unfortunately that backfired, resulting in the death of them both. I guess Lex doesn't want to repeat his mistake. SEE? Lex Does Care!

Plus he's a male and he probably doesn't know what kind of youthful memories to produce for a female.

BTW, I don't see Tess keeping an eye on things for Lex as "EVOL", but...I guess we'll find out.

I guess I'm assuming that Tess is supposed to be Lex's proxy for everything and that should include his EVOL doings. I mean, really, EVOL doings don't get done unless someones doing the doing, ya know?

So Lex is going to need her to step up or hire one of the CW promo monkey's, cause we know they have already proved their capacity for evil.

Sometimes it's hard to separate the two functions. :-)))



They could always have big pictures of Lex and some of his artifacts in a locked room, and Team Kent could get together every week and throw darts at the pictures and stomp all over the artifacts.

A few what seemed to be nods to Smallville in the current Batman/Superman leading to my speculation without spoiler for today. The obligatory reference to how Clark and Lana used to be so in love they didn't think anything else mattered happened while "Doomsday" was wiping the streets of Smallville up with Supes butt.

But he wasn't really Doomsday. He was a pseudo cloned version created using Doomsday's DNA bound to human DNA using Kryptonite. This so called All American Boy started out as an unsuspecting golden haired patriotic Kansas boy who had signed up to serve is country and turned into a monster for his efforts.

The comic didn't mention if he ended up serving drinks at the Ace of Clubs in the meantime.

That's just -- wow. Now they're pulling a SV retcon at DC. My ghod, the creeping rot is everywhere.

That sounds more like Wes. I doubt SV has anything firm enough in mind as far as Doomtender goes that could leak into comics this soon. He hasn't even been cast.

Making Clark and Lana madly in love in Smallville is a retcon, isn't it? As far as I recall, previously they were just high school sweethearts, if that.

This is the second thing I've seen that makes me think Superman/Batman is doing a heavy SV-influenced retcon (whether it affects DC's main continuity or not, I have no idea). I pointed out on the mythos thread that they'd recently changed the backstory of kryptonite in this series so that it was prevalent in Smallville, and created freaks that Clark had to cope with. It was quite obviously pulled directly from SV. Makes me think whoever's writing Superman/Batman now is a big SV fan.

First a correction... Clark was not waxing nostolgic about his love for Lana Lang while being beaten up by All American Boy in Smallville. Frankly I had to go re-read the issue just to find the reference to Lana it was that trivial. I remembered his thoughts on Pete, his summer job at the gas station, and at the farm, but not Lana at all. It turns out the reference to Lana was in that one about the summer job... all it was about was that the owner of the gas station would let Lana hang out when they weren't busy and Clark thought that was very nice of the owner. That's it. End of Lana reference.



Second, in point of fact, all of DC loves Smallville and they'd use the whole of Smallville as their backstory if they could (SV won't let them use certain elements until they're done with them) because... even at their crappiest Smallville has a hundred times the viewership as they have readers. As much as we complain about it, Smallville is FAR more popular than the comics and always has been.

That's why they wanted Chloe Sullivan (but Smallville stepped on their throats and wouldn't let her be used until they've done their big reveal). They want to snag as many Smallville viewers as possible and get them reading Superman the way Buffy fans are picking up the season eight comics.

As to some spec... I wouldn't be surprised if Smallville's Doomsday is a bit more like All American Boy than the original from the comic. Frankly, the random alien rampages for no real reason and kills Superman just doesn't have much emotional impact. The only real connection that I recall in the whole deal at the time was that he was going to kill Superman... that's it.

The parallels of a good Kansas boy wanting to save the world, but transformed into a monster by Lex minions and then set lose upon Superman would have a lot more impact in an ongoing story where the Superman/Doomsday fight probably won't be coming until the climax of the story (as opposed to the comics where the relatively short Doomsday arc served to kick off the massive Reign of the Supermen arc... it was the start of the story not the end).

Also, AAB just looks better for being Clark's ultimate foe than Doomsday ever could, because kryptonite spikes will always look cooler than bone ones.

My guess is that they'll end up using Nois' arc for the season (because she always gets the same 'arc'... a new love interest) to build up who Bloom is to heighten the tragedy when he's turned into a monster. Forget about any actual story for Nois... they've consistently used her to actually develop the stories of recurring guest stars (Ollie/Grulian) rather than actually develop one for herself.

I'll also spec that, with Ollie as a regular (Tennison has said that's not a spoiler so I'm not taping it) the DP will be back in good hands pretty early in the season... which means Chloe will be back at the DP. I know some people are worried about retcons on Nois... but Nois isn't scheduled to be in much over half the episodes and the DP is a major set for them... Chloe will be back there fairly quickly so they can use it.

Heh. More than you know. Let me just say if you thought parts of Prototype were lame and cheesy the comic is much, much worse.

But speaking of Wes, Doomtender in many ways is a logical extension of project Ares. They "wrap" up Wes' story with Lex describing Wes as having been "almost perfect" before vowing "this isn't the end of Project Ares. This is just the beginning." So was project Ares really just dropped unceremoniously in season seven never to be seen again or is it going to resurface a season later much like level 33.1 did? Doomsday could be the culmination of Lex's off-screenville efforts during season seven. If so the idea that Lois becomes romantically involved with Doomtender almost make a modicum of sense. It brings the entire arc full circle in a kind of sick cliched way.


To be fair there's no specific claim they were "madly" is love. The line is "Lana used to visit me here. Back when we were in love and thought that was all that mattered in the world." A line like that just sticks out like a sore thumb to anyone who's suffered through SVClark's Lana blinders all these years and it just sums up perfectly so many of the dumb things SVClark has said and done. I expect most people without a SV background wouldn't give it much thought and simply attribute it as a reference to a time when Clark and Lana were young and naive.

But the SV similarities don't stop there. While bats off is trying to figure out a way to stop fake!Doomsday instead of moving the fight out of town and keeping the folks he grew up with out of harms way Supes thinks about how "nice" it was of his former boss to let Lana hang out with him while he was on the clock. (I guess sort of like SVClark does, er did, with Chloe before she was canned.)Then he blows up the guy's old timey gas station as if he thinks that's going slow down something that can beat the snot out of Superman.

At least Supes vows to try to make it up to the guy later. As well he should. After all he was so nice. He let Clark and Lana hang together. By the way, apparently that's the sort of thing that's important to think about when someone is beating you to death. No reason to worry yourself about how much you love your wife or if your sidekick is going to pull through in time to save your bacon.

I felt like I was reading a bastardized version of the season eight climactic battle months early. All the key elements are there. Clark is bumbling around thinking about Lana, unnecessarily putting himself and others in danger and blowing shit up and while his sidekick (Chloe and/or Oliver I expect) works on a way to stop Doomsday and save his ass.

I don't think anyone should worry about anything in Superma/Batman reflecting a change in DC continuity to be more like Smallville. That title seems to have a pretty loose connection with the rest of DC continuity anyway, and I'm pretty sure they just let it's writers do whatever they want. I suspect the series may only exist to create Superman/Batman slash-fic fodder, but I can't be certain. Also, it's always had a Smallville connection, having been written by Jeph Loeb and Mark Verheiden.

The story in question was written by Michael Green, who I know is a Heroes writer, but IMDB tells me he has some credits for Smallville also. There are a lot of Smallville refernces in the story, and that probably explains it. Maybe he only knows Superman from the show. The storyline begins with Superman asking Batman to help him get rid of all the Kryptonite in the world. Apparently it's everywhere, which is in direct contradiction to an earlier Superman storyline where Luthor was able to stockpile all of it. IIRC, he also mentions something about getting attacked by meter freaks all the time growing up in Smallville, which doesn't really match what we know about Superman's current origin.

Something that Michael Green did put in his storyline that I would like to see used on Smallville is a Kryptonite that makes Superman act like he's smoked a lot of acid laced pot. It was pretty funny, as was the Superman/Batman movie that was being filmed at the start of the story (with Jeph Loeb making an in-comic cameo as the director). Other than that, Michael Green doesn't seem to be a very good comic book writer. I hear his Joker origin for Batman Confidential was laughable. I still feel bad about not talking to him at New York Comic Con though, because no one knew who he was and he was just sitting there. Had I made the connection with his name, I could have at least asked him about Heroes.

Not only that, but he made a tongue-in-cheek reference to fighting a freak every week, which was a very clear reference to Smallville.

Thanks. I wasn't sure on the specifics because I don't actually own the issues, and just skimmed some stuff on-line.

The movie bit was pretty funny. Perhaps of interest to certain SV factions -- oddly enough movie Batman was a blond. Not that it implies anything.

Holy retcon, Batman!

This would be just wonderful, especially if they retconned Ma & Pa Kent to be like their onscreen versions. Two of the sweetest, kindest people in the comics, turned into... that!

And Lois Lane as the stupidest reporter ever. Lois Lane was one of the few female heroes girls had, for generations. Shall we next find out she always did sleep with her boss to keep her job, because she never even finished college? Yeah, that's a way better role model for girls. Use your tits, not your brains, and you'll get farther.

I guess that's why SV is more popular than the comics. The portrayal of the secondary, inferior female sex. Guys don't like smart, brave women, they like dumb women with big tits, and we must accomodate the guys.

I have never heard anything about a "big reveal" prohibiting Chloe from appearing in the comic books. Is there a source for this, from someone officially involved with the show or from DC Comics? Because I think that comes off more as speculation.

I thought Chloe was dropped because they didn't know what to do with her and the guy who was hugely championing her enterence to the comics left?