I'm not sure how Chloe being arrested makes Lex appear super-smart. That situation was a gift, delivered into his lap by Jimmy Olson. Chloe ran afoul of authorities for doing something illegal. Jimmy was the one that decided to bring the matter to the attention of Lex, who just took the opportunity and ran with it. Lex didn't manufacture the situation as far as we know right now. For all the complaints about certain characters getting handed things, the truth of the matter is that all the characters have benefitted from getting handed things. In this case, it was Lex.



My feelings exactly! All the characters should be written well. However, after seasons of Clark coming in close to last with the writers, I think S8 is time for him to come first. I'm totally in support of other characters coming across as smart, competent, heroic, etc. As long as Clark is written to be all of those things, first and foremost. Really good writers would not need to prioritize. SV writers obviously do because multitaskers they are not. Playing up Chloe's positive attributes at the expense of Clark's is long past being exceptable, IMO. Did we really need Chloe damaging Braniac before Clark could defeat him? No, we really didn't need that all, IMO. That served Chloe, and Chloe alone, and diminished Clark's victory along the way. And why? Because consideration for Clark came after making use of Chloe's superpowers. Why does Chloe even have superpowers at all?



Any character should be allowed to grow, and change, and evolve and mature. Characters should be like real people, and change their minds, find themselves at a crossroads, discover new ambitions, and new loves, and also fall out of love. I don't believe characters should be static, and I don't believe every change that a character undergoes is a "lightswitch". To me, that term has almost become synonomous with being unhappy with the storyline direction. IMO



Clark has shown no real, unambigious romantic interest in anyone but Lana for largest majority of the time, and most recently, this past season. Whichever character he shows romantic interest in post-Lana (and I'm perfectly fine if he puts romance on the backburner of his life in S8), its going to be a big change, and its going to entail him looking at someone differently, or being open to someone new in a way he wasn't before. People refer to Clark having on Lana blinders, and I wouldn't disagree with that. With those blinders removed, who knows what he will begin to see that he didn't see before. That would apply for Chloe, or Lois, IMO.

Going to the Arctic thread...

It's the CW, dude. Beautiful bodies and sexy innuendo 'r us. I'm hoping for the best, but expect SV to be forced to compete in the GG/90210 arena.

Unless, of course, Dawn is canned and we get a reprieve.

Forget that, people are wondering if the network will make it through to winter.

I wouldn't mind as long as Clark and the Winchester boys land on their feet.

That part, IA with.

It would apply more for Chloe then Lois since Season 7 took episodes emphasizing Chloe would make the better girlfriend to Clark then Lana, and Lois was discarded in Siren with her crying to Clark how she doesn't want to share her man with the world. And proceeded with the Chlana hints to Traveler with Chloe shouting to Jor-El she loves his son. I cannot compare Lois's role in Apocalypse/ Arctic with the Clois of the entire season IMHO Lois was written like that with the flirting and such because they are setting that up should AM not return.



I don't understand this. IMHO Chloe has NEVER brought Clark down. Look at the past 5 freaking episodes, they wrote Clark so obsessed with Lana even when KK isn't in the episode and had Chloe motivate him. IMHO that's not Chloe's fault, it's Clark. No it's really Lana. I suggest rewatching those scenes where it's clearly the Lana/Clana factor bringing Clark down to promote Lana freaking Lang.




I liked that scene personally. I loved there is a scene out there that's focused on Chloe and Chloe alone. Damn we hardly get those kinds of scenes in S7. Also the confrontation opened up speculation of her powers it made that arc finally interesting IMHO and great plot ideals for the new season.

Well, actually Brainiac took out Kara while Clark wasn't looking. And the thing is, to make a villian that can defeat Kara hand to hand, means he's more powerful than Clark too. So Clark needs some help. The problem with Superman has always been he's too powerful, so you have to do crazy stuff to make credible threats to him. That and break out the kryptonite at every opportunity.

I don't think that Siren scene "discarded" Lois. I also don't think it really worked as the ironic scene it was meant to be. Other than that, it seems a matter of preference, but thats beside my point. Which was that, up to now, Clark has had Lana blinders on. When he takes them off (*if* they ever let him), who knows what he will begin to see and notice?



And IMHO, she has.



Thanks for the suggestion. But as the person that does the screentime totals, believe me, I've rewatched them. Also, if I looked at strictly the last 5 eps, I might agree with you. However, I think the problem has been going on longer then that.



My point exactly. The scene served Chloe, but dinged Clark. I have no problem with Chloe focused scenes (there were several in Sleeper IIRC). I just don't think they should come at Clark's expense.



Says who? Not I. I thought that was an awkward scene, and obviously set up for the Brainiac as Kara thing. But it was pretty awful.

I'm just going to go ahead and say it--I'm starting to really not give a shit about Clark anymore. Sorry. I used to, and sometimes I feel sorry for him, or enjoy him, and it's not that I totally dislike him, but he's his own worst enemy. And he's just so mopey and stunted and self-righteous and...I don't know, a freakin dullard. I'm tired of it. Really...if they write him better, great. But if not, whatever. Nothing new. For me, the ship has sailed as he's had 7 years to get his shit together and he JUST.NEVER.LEARNS. It's frustrating as hell to watch. His relationship with Lana really puts a damper on his credibility for me, and I think he treated Lex crappy in the past yet never acknowledged it. Yes, I know, other people disagree. It's not a popular opinion. It's just what I take from the show.

So yeah, I guess that puts me in the camp that hopes S8 is as Chloe-centric as possible, since she's the only real reason I care to watch anymore. I *hope* that Clark is less of a sweet pain in the ass, because I loved the S5 Chlark team and I miss the dynamic. But otherwise? No interest in Clark hanging with Nois or being mopey about Lana or continuing to MEMEMEME to death and fail to look at the bigger picture.

*ducks*

I don't agree with all these statements about how Clark shouldn't get help from other people. Buffy got help from others pretty much every episode and I don't think it in any way diminished her as a heroine. Her friends brought her strength and kept her grounded. I would find it weird and freaky if Clark didn't have someone to help boost him when he needed it, help keep him grounded and help counsel him when he is confused. It's not a sign of weakness to accept help from others. I think refusing help from others when it would make things better is a bigger problem.

I think Chloe and Clark work well together and the competence they generally have in those plotlines helps offset how utterly stupid and weak they come off due to their relationship bs with lana and jimmy respectively.

In the IGN review for Sleeper (I think) they commented about how Chloe and Clark have by far, the best chemistry on the show, and how it would have been nice to see them work together more to solve the problem. They use to do that all the time in FOTW episodes and I think the absence of that teamwork was a major loss to S7. The writers would do well to add back in some FOTW episodes to showcase Chlark joint teamwork again because to me and others, those scenes make them look good and are entertaining.

Also, about Superman taking help from others and working with others, Smallville as a long building theme of Superman as the QuarterBack of the JLA. In this story, the emphasis is on how Clark doesn't want to be alone and how he wants to part of a team. His interest in the football team was introduced in the pilot and ran throughout the first four seasons of the show and then that segued into creating a new team with his superhero friends which will eventually become the JLA. That idea comes from the comics and other versions of the Superman story and I see nothing wrong with Clark not being a lone wolf, but rather a man who enjoys being part of a team. To me, that is a sign of a well adjusted person who wants to interact with others. At the end of the story, I think Clark has to be part of the team and working as it's QB. When they bring Ollie back, I think part of coming full circle with the story will be showing Clark getting to be quarterback after all by accepting his role in leading the JL.

And Clark is responsible for his own actions. His choices are his own. No one can force him to do anything. It is his own attitude that makes him look bad. When he has the same heroic, good-intentioned attitude he had in Season 1 and 2 back, he will be Supermany again.

I must be missing all these statements that are saying Superman should never get any help from anyone. There is a vast difference between getting help and requiring help all the time, and requiring it all the time from the same person, thereby making that person just as much, if not moreso a hero than Superman.

I think most people agree that Clark is not iconic Superman yet; there are several things that have to be done in Season 8 because that's all we have left, and IMO SOME detachment from Chloe's big beautiful brain is necessary. Is that the only thing that needs to happen? Of course not, but it is one of the things, IMO.

IA. It's this show's one saving grace.



I've never understood why people consider this Clark inept, but then I've always viewed "Clark+ILL" as one, which is why the Chlark dynamic works so well for this show. As for detachment, I disagree. After Lana leaving him for the good of the world (or whatever the hell it is) he's going to need someone he can trust and that can stand with him, not as an equal, but someone who can support him while he takes the final steps to making the decision about the suit etc. We and Clark already know Nois isn't it, she's said so herself.

I'm pretty grateful he has Chloe around.

Why is the idea of Clark having someone other than Chloe to talk to occasionally so disturbing? It doesn't mean the end of their friendship and it doesn't mean they never work together. It just means the IMO tired formula of Clark needing help and always going to Chloe instead of a) figuring things out for himself from time to time or b) working with others, like he used to with Pete, his parents, Lionel, Lex, etc.

That's all I am asking for season 8. A proactive Clark that isn't dragged there by his ankles by Chloe. I don't think they have to stop being close. I like that they are close, but I don't like this joint heroship. Clark is the hero of this show. Does that mean others can't be heroic? No. But I don't want anything to take away from the heroics of Clark, and IMO the level of attachment to Chloe's brain does that. Also, I would like to see Clark's world broaden to working with people who GASP actually don't know his secret. Superman has managed to do that in every other incarnation.

I bothered to look up the quote. I agree with this reviewer from IGN. I think Chlark working together has been a key part of the success of the series and to me, Chloe and Clark work best when they are like Mulder & Scully. But, I am an x-phile and nothing beats Mulder & Scully for enjoyment and entertainment.



See, I never enjoyed Mulder & Scully as much when they weren't working together. They weren't as good apart. Same deal with Chlark, imo. And especially in their scenes with their respective romantic partners. Clana and Chimmy could not make Clark and Chloe look more weak and pathetic whereas their partnership with each other allows them to show competence and assertiveness. So, again, I agree with the IGN reviewer that what the show needs is more Chlark partnership working on episodic mysteries the way they use to in previous seasons.

And I will also mention Buffy again. The whole Scooby gang were heroes in their own ways. And nothing about their teamwork took away from Buffy, imo. If anything a message of the show was that Buffy was better than other Slayers because she saw how friends would make her better than she would be alone. She managed to make her life work and be functional through them. She needed them to be the best she could be, but I never felt that made her weak. I liked that theme. I thought it was much more functional than the lone hero idea.

Should he be? Yes. But I'm not sure that anyone in this rendering of the Superman story holds that title. Not from what we've been shown.



But Clark isn't Superman yet. And this is the story of the man who is (slowly as all fucking get out) coming to understand his powers and the role he'll play in the world. I need to see him talking about that, working through it, and yes, even being encouraged because IMO, he still needs it considering how behind the 8-ball he still is. I don't think it would work otherwise. I kind of cringe at the thought of a season of Nois wondering where that breeze came from when Clark appears, or Jimmy wondering how Clark was able to get into a locked room. BTDT, watched it for 4 seasons, you know?

I can't go with the X-Files comparison because the premise of the show was based on both of them. Superman is based on Superman, and Smallville is based on Clark Kent, while Chloe, Lana, and Lois are all great characters at their best, it's offputting to me that they be on an equal level of Superman, but again, that's me being a Superman fan coming out. As much as I love the character of Lois Lane in all incarnations, it's still never been equal to me. YMMV.

I don't understand why it has to be all or nothing though; I think the show worked best in seasons 1-5 when it wasn't just the Clark and Chloe show, when he had other people he interacted with, some in the know, some not in the know. I'm not saying get rid of the Chloe character or the Chlark dynamic, just introduce and use some other ideas from time to time. Clark does have other relationships, IMO. For instance, I hope Lana comes back and can be a friend, I think it would work nicely without the angst. I think Clark and Lois do have a friendship and would like to see it developed. I am bitterly disappointed that Kara isn't coming back because she had a sisterly role with him that was very refreshing to see. I think there is potential with Jimmy that is being totally untapped. All that can be done without eradicating the Chlark dymanic, just not making it so dominant.

One big difference in this analogy...Buffy had a group of friends. If every single episode, she had to run to Willow exclusively to tell her what to do...or Xander, I suspect it would very much have taken away from Buffy. The fact that BTVS spread the wealth between several characters, while maintaining Buffy as the singular focus, is probably why that show was worlds better then SV. IMO

I thought Season 5 Chlark was fantastic, but that was also the season called Chloeville by some. So, if one doesn't like anyone being equal in heroism to Clark, S5 Chlark wouldn't work because S5Chloe kicked ass all.the.time. I, otoh, would think it a MASSIVE improvement.



And Mulder & Scully only had each other. They didn't trust anyone else as much. Almiles talked on the DVDs about how early Chlark were done in the Mulder & Scully mold and that was the dynamic they wanted between them. I find that to be a strength of the show. I would guess that is why Chloe wins those Teen Choice Awards as Best Sidekick. All those millions of voters who vote for her like how she and Clark work together. Again, I'm with the IGN reviewer, what the show needs is more Chlark team work successfully handling a problem, not less.

Smallville, IMO, is more like (a watered down, badly written version of) Buffy than it is like any Superman story.

I don't see Clark as incompetant. He can do all these things, from computer research to saving the world. He just doesn't do them until pressed. I really think that if we're supposed to buy Clark as Superman and not some random hero in tights when the show is over that we need to see that he wants to be heroic, he wants to step up on his own. And I think this is actually a plot point of the show. Chloe telling Clark to step up, to go save the world shouldn't be necessary. But for this incarnation of the story, at this moment in time, it is. I think that part of Clark's realization of his heroism will be that he doesn't need that.

As for the super hacking and Chloe's gigantic brain... I view it as any other plot contrivance on this show like Lex/Lionel/Oliver's money/technology or Lana's Skill of the Week (astronomy! hacking! art!). Does it get annoying and repetitive? Eh, sometimes. It's unbelievable, that's for sure. But I don't expect we'll ever get less of it. These are not good writers. They solve like every single problem with a billionaire sending a limo or Chloe with a computer.

While I really enjoy Chlark scoobying and don't think it diminishes the hero to have a partner, I do think that Clark needs to expand his interactions, though. Because he's supposed to want to help the world. And so he has to get to know it.

My head, it spins from the whiplash.

But Lois Lane has to be "The" Lois Lane now? I tell ya, I just don't get it.

I began watching this show for two characters -- Clark and Lex. That was the relationship that was touted; the journey I was drawn in to watch. One half of that is gone, which I can accept. However, the other half better be good and that [FOR ME] requires that I see the qualities of Superman in this guy called Clark Kent. I no longer want to see him moping, being forced to help others, nor do I want to see him hamstrung to fit in some sidekick. As a matter of fact, what I want to see is the Clark Kent that showed up in Apocalypse. But then again, I have pretty much not watched the show since mid-Season 4, so I can give it up quite easily.

In "Apocalypse" Clark had Jimmy's help for tracking down Lana and he had Nois' help for dealing with Lex/Brainiac. Bottom line: He had help. It didn't make him look weak/incapable/etc.

On LnC, THLois and DCClark worked as a team. On Smallville, Chloe and Clark work as a team. It doesn't diminish the hero at all, imo.

I think that is worth mentioning that Clark is the one that goes to Chloe. Is not like Chloe is seeing Clark saving the day pushes him and say: I can save the day better than you,move bitch! and Clark stays on the ground moping because Chloe took away his heroic feat.
I think THAT will be what make Clark look bad, in this instance Clark relies on Chloe because she can help him, is not beyond that while she is doing to research he can do something else so more ground is covered quickly (except when he uses that time to go and watch Lana not to move that is!) so I don't think it makes him look bad. If he has someone he knows he can trust to help him save the day why would he not make use of that asset? Is calling delegating.
Also Chloe is indeed helpful on all levels so it will be stupid of him not to go to her if he knows she can access those things in a quick and effective way. I mean Ollie looked weak on Siren when he used Chloe's help? I don't think.
I do want to clear that I'm tired of Chlark (Chloe saving Clark more than anything) not because it makes him look good or bad but because there is no point to it. They don't follow it up, they don't make a deal about it, they don't change the dynamics it looks to me at this point like a Clana break up scene, repetitive and useless.
So no more saving for me unless they plan to do something with it.

IMO the last three episodes are among the worst WRT Chloe's actions marginalizing Clark's intelligence and heroism. In Apocalypse you've got Chloe forcing the damn key into his hand as he contemplates the equivalent of suicide. Inside the AU without Chloe's help team brainiac wins hands down. In Quest it's Chloe who pieces together the clues left by Teague, downloads step by step directions to the church for Clark, and then when Clark inevitably screws things up it's Chloe who shows up at the last minute and chops through a block of solid stone to save Clark's life. Then to top it all off in Arctic Chloe (apparently unintentionally) damages Brainiac so badly that when Clark finally faces off with his arch nemesis Brainiac can barely walk.

So here we have what should be one of Clark's defining moments of the season (if not the series), a moment we've been heading towards since at least since Veritas if not since Arrival. The moment Clark can make Brainiac pay for all the pain he's put Clark and Lana through, for the pain Brainiac brought Martha in season five, for abducting his one time best friend Lex Luthor and turning him into a vessel for Zod, for repeatedly trying to bring complete destruction to Earth and Brainaic can barely stand thanks to Chloe Sullivan's previously unknown meteor power? Talk about robbing the hero of his heroic moment. The scene played more like Clark putting down a sick dog than defeating one of his most notorious enemies.

And it's not as if Descent or Sleeper were a whole lot better. How is it Clark knows Lex killed Lionel? Chloe. How does Clark know to look for Lois and Jimmy at the Daily Planet? Chloe. Who suggests Clark re-read Swan's journal which leads to figuring out Kara is trying to get in touch with him from Krypton!past? Chloe.

You know what made him look weak/incapable/etc. IMO? The first person he "cares" about in the AU who he meets is Chloe and what's the first thing he does? He asks her for help finding Lana. He doesn't ask Chloe how she's doing or what her job is or if she's dating anyone. He asks for her help. And when she refuses him he moves down the totem pole to Jimmy and Lois. I mean, really, Clark can't Google Lang Lang on his own?

Chloe gets my vote because she's a great character overall, not because of how she's glued to Clark.


Chlois debate aside and if they follow the mythos, Chloe won't be always around. Superman, before working on the DP, before meeting Lois and before she knew about his dual identity, was saving the world on his own and didn't need some prep talk from a sidekick. I think it would be okay for what might be the last season to show that he's about to take that path.

On this point, Clark figures out it was Lex on his own. In fact, he puts it together before Chloe cleans up the photograph, which surprised the hell out of me, because I expected them to give that one to Chloe, too, or at least have them find out together when Chloe gets the final image cleared up, but they didn't.

It may not be popular, but I agree with you, Nat0117. Honestly, I'm watching to see what happens to Chloe now. Over the past couple of seasons, I've started to feel the same way about Clark as I do about my dog: not the sharpest knife in the drawer but he sure is pretty, isn't he? The unfortunate effect of the spectacularly poor writing on the show is a total lack of decent characterization. It's even more painful when you know what the character is supposed to be like and the writers demonstrate that they don't. At this point, Chloe's characterization, being original, has the least amount of baggage that needs to be tossed out in order to enjoy the Smallville treatment of it. I have hopes for her and what happens to her - getting out of jail, dumping Jimmy, reclaiming her position at the Daily Planet, once cleaning house is done, etc.. For Clark, I just hope they don't screw him up even more than they have already. YMMV

I don't see how Clark destroying Brainiac "dinged" Clark at all. He was back at the power station, charging up. Was it unambiguous that he was still damaged? I don't think so. As far as I can tell, the value of Chloe damaging Brainiac was to cause him to go recharge his batteries. Clark realized it was Brainiac when Chloe opened her eyes. Clark found Brainiac (Offscreen scoobying implied). Clark destroys Brainiac. I thought Clark's best moment of Arctic was when he took out Brainiac. I thought he looked weak with Lex.

I get that Clark is a maligned hero on this show. I can only presume the writers are compensating. (think Shrek). I wish he was much more heroic. But I don't get blaming Chloe or Chloe's presence for Clark's failings. Does she mollycoddle him sometimes? Yes, but less than she yells at him to focus on the big picture or step in and save the day. They've made this proto-Superman a very very very reluctant hero. That is the shame. The shame is not IMO that Chloe is around to witness it. I don't think interacting with other characters will suddenly make him more Supermanly.

IA with others: the Chlark dynamic is the most compelling because he actually talks about his hero issues and usually the plot moves forward when they talk. He was still reluctant to talk about being an alien superhero with Lana. S7 was the perfect opportunity to spread it around... and they didn't. Lana broached the topic in Action and he rejected it. Lana is supposed to become Clark's confident and they wasted their time on uber-contrived ways to throw Clana roadblocks. I have no idea why but it sure isn't Chloe's fault.

I do think other characters will allow us to see more sides of Clark but I don't believe Chloe performing heroic duties was done at the expense of Clark. The writers wanted Clark stuck in a rut for one.more.season. and someone needed to step up so ....let's use Chloe! She's handy and we've kicked her in the journalism teeth! Seriously, the notion that one character is made to suffer so someone else looks good always seems like a specious argument. Insert favorite Character X as the aggrieved party and hated Character Y as the propped up party and you can just about make the case for any two people. I offered up earlier that Chloe was sent out of the DP to make room for Lois. I consider that different. They didn't intend to make Chloe look bad or prop up Lois at her expense, they are trying to fix an underlying structural issue they have with lining up to the movies. It's also possible that part of the Chloe superhero vibe is a compensator for having to push her out. If you go in with the belief that Chloe doesn't get to go back to the DP and she doesn't get to be Clark's love interest then it looks like they made her superChloe as a consolation prize.

You mean like the time Clark "figured out" Lex was the one who killed Lana? It's true that Clark burst in to accuse Lex of killing Lionel before Chloe was able to clean up the photo. But that's what Clark does, accuse Lex of things without any proof and often for things Lex didn't have anything to do with. IMO without the photo all Clark had were his own suspicions and Clark didn't "know" Lex killed Lionel any more than he "knew" Lex killed Lana.

Actually, IIRC, Clark didn't confront Lex until after the picture was killed up. Which is why he says to Lex during the confrontation "I have proof". Because at the time, he did.

Nope, rechecked. They didn't have the photo cleared yet. Sorry.

However, I really can't get bent out of shape when Clark accuses Lex of things he actually did.

No he went to Lex, before Chloe was able to fix the picture, he went to the mansion, Gina knocked Chloe out deleted the picture and then Clark heads back to Isis.

Guys, a lot of this is getting off the topic of speculation and more into All Seasons territory. Bringing up past story lines in order to speculate about the future is totally fine, but quite a few posts are entirely about the past. Just keep the focus on future speculation.

Thanks.

Taking this to the Clark thread...

I think Peterson-gate was never what we thought it was. I think the big error responsible for the story being pulled was in the reporter taking Peterson talking about a Lois & Clark type scenario and applying Erica and Tom to the discussion when that wasn't the intention.

For most of it's first two seasons "Lois and Clark" were not actually in a relationship with each other while they were out investigating various stories every episode, they were just best friends. That description could easily be used to describe Chlark investigating stories.

At the time of Peterson-gate (around April 1st) they knew that KK would only be back for a limited time and if I understand the timing they were probably at least to the point in negotiations with MR where they realized he'd not be back for a full season. That means they had to start thinking of how to shift the story onto the two remaining full-timers, TW and AM and a s1 LnC-style scenario would work just fine with those two as the leads.

I think just the fact that Craig confirmed that, even if AM had not resigned, that ED was still only signed for no more than 12-13 episodes pretty much rules out the notion that the plan was for Clark and Nois to be the focus of Peterson's LnC-themed season mention simply because half the episodes would have to be something else if they were planning on using Nois because they just didn't have her signed for that many episodes.

No, my suspicion is that if Peterson was even remotely accurately he meant a LnC-like season using their two remaining leads as the core of their stories for the year.


Except that, since around 1991 that's not true. Lois Lane has been Superman's sidekick in the comics ever since she learned his secret identity. There's even a line back then where Clark muses "Batman has Robin, the Lone Ranger has Tonto, and Superman has Lois Lane" clearly indicating her side-kick status.

Likewise, the current comics have Lois Lane googling things to help Clark (she even takes advantage of his superhearing to get him critical info as she's uncovering it while he's stuck in the middle of a fight) and even have her save him from time to time.

For the past seventeen years, Lois Lane has been Superman's side-kick, which is why I don't find it at all surprising that they want to keep the side-kick aspect running with Chloe next year.

Indeed, my suspicion is that they're going to be focusing heavily on the Chlark team-up and maybe even going into the dynamics of their partnership more fully next season because, well, they're the only two full timers left and when all the others are appearing in thirteen episodes or less you've not got a whole lot of material for B (much less C) plots.

A friend of mine speculated that season eight would practically be the "Chlark + Guest Star hour" just owing to who they have available from episode to epsiode and the list of people they're going to or would like to bring back and I think that's pretty much on target.

I also think its good that they established three potential story arcs for Chloe next season... clearing her name (or adopting a new one), redeeming the Daily Planet, and figuring out just what her deal is with the meteor freak power (that the latter one could involve return appearances by Dean Cain and Lynda Carter would be gravy).

As for Clark, I would like to see him get in on the ground floor of the Daily Planet. Getting him assigned to the tip lines would be a great way of showing him paying his dues like Chloe had to (and may have to do again), but also put him in a position to hear about a lot of things he could potentially help with so he'll start thinking more about his community and what he can do with his powers to help.

I don't want to see this, I'm okay with Chloe having some role, but I'm not interested in Team!Chlark. I'd rather see more of the Justice League than that. Chloe miraculously turning up to yet again save Clark needs to end. No more, we can't have any more of that rubbish.

I want SO much for the show to retain focus on who's left of the core four characters of the show and to use everyone else to do the two of them justice. None of this five-minute cameos for Chloe - she's back for 22 episodes, I want to see her story and how it links her to Clark more than ever. And no, that doesn't mean focus has to be taken away from Clark for that to happen.

As for the JL, though to be more accurate, the Golden Boy, JH? I can do without him. I don't want them to try for the umpteenth spin-off and pimp him like crazy for half the season and reduce Clark to the five minute cameos because PS3 are hard up for a gig after this, and the network wants another show out of this one.

Give me MM, thanks and do something with him properly. It also gives Clark another person to share his "alieness" with which should satisfy everyone's desire to see Clark be like that with someone else instead of Chloe (though I suspect he probably won't chose MM over Chloe at all).

Personally, the thing that always was attractive about superman was that as the most powerful being around, he and ILL are partners, and she is as Chris pointed out, his sidekick. He wants to work with her, like he wants to with Chloe.

I've been pondering the cliffhangers to figure out what the first episode will look like. There are four "in peril" cliffhangers to be resolved in the first episode. Clark (buried under ice), Lex (buried under ice), Kara (trapped in the PZ) and Chloe (off to jail). Since I think Lex will be missing, I think his resolution is left a mystery. I think Kara is forgotten for a few episodes. That leaves Clark and Chloe.

So how does Clark gets out of the trouble he is in? He's buried (I think) under ice w/ Lex. I am assuming that 1) he is coming back and 2) Lex is gone and not part of the season opener. In most options it could be implied Lex thought Clark was dead. After staying with Clark while the FoS crumbled, I'm going to suggest that Lex either helping Clark or abandoning Clark are not likely. I think the point of Lex staying with Clark was that he felt Clark had to die and he wasn't going to let him die alone. So, I wouldn't expect S8 opener to counter that notion. If Lex is just gone, somehow he thinks he survived and Clark died is my guess. Otherwise, I don't think Lex leaves Clark's side. If he thought Clark was alive, he'd stay to finish the job.

So, here are some options for Clark's rescue I've been thinking about:
1) Clark wakes up, finds Lex gone, and simply takes off. Kindof boring.
2) Clark has been frozen for a while and a glowing crystal remnant (ala the movie plot devices) wakes him up
3) Clark is trapped beneath the surface is suddenly revived by a shaft of sunlight or something, doesn't see Lex and has to claw his way out -- no sign of how Lex got out of there
4) Clark is frozen and trapped --- someone comes rescue him and wakes/revives him.

So my main question is; does Clark get out of there essentially on his own steam or does he get rescued? After Quest, one has to presume that Chloe could take Ollie's jet and go looking for him. BUT since she is in jail, I think Clark will be on his own. I don't see any other character coming to the North Pole (because Martha is apparently oblivious in DC, Lana's off to Paris, and Kara is in the PZ). I also think it's unlikely Chloe would tell anyone to go get him. Which means, if Chloe would have some way to help Clark she would have to get out of jail first. Really puts Clark out there on the back burner while resolving Chloe's story. Now, they could just wash away Chloe's story with a throw-away, "got out of jail due to plot device A" statement but this seems like and awful waste of a cliffhanger. Lana could also (with a timejump) recognize something isn't right and suddenly show up -- but that is really out of context with the video goodbye. SO, I think Clark gets out of the frozen tundra on his own steam.

Also for all options, due to Clark's abilities, a time-jump is just as likely as not as he is the only returning character physically in immediate danger. With the addition of Tess (who I'm guessing shows up in the first episode) I'm going to lean towards time-jump because there needs to be enough time for folks to assume Lex is MIA and someone needs to step in. Clark being gone all that long seems like an accepted mystery --- although Jimmy will be confused.

Which leaves me to Chloe. Who rescues her? Or is she even rescued in the first episode? Could she be left in jail for one or two episodes and getting her out is a big deal. I'm thinking that if there is a time-jump, she's had some quality time behind bars already and she's released in the first episode rather than later. I wouldn't be surprised if they play the "gov't guys abuse suspected terrorist" card as it's currently front page Washington Post these days and they went there a bit in Sleeper and Lara. I could see the J-Lo team running around researching and with righteous indignation but unable to affect her release. Especially if there is a time jump or if she has lost access to lawyers or been sequestered someplace they don't know because of her suspected terrorist status (okay, I know, this is not real-life, it's Hollywood contrivance here). They've also apparently rushed to get JH on board. Now Ollie as the big money guy (with lawyers) or as the JL dude (with superheros in the clubhouse) is the obvious solution. BUT that really takes away from Clark. You would think that if Clark gets out of his peril on his own steam, then he will be involved in Chloe's rescue. If Chloe is taken out of jail in a black bag op, then her normal life is over. So, the next big question: Is Chloe release from jail or broken out? Clark could certainly break her out and get Ollie involved in hiding her. If Clark is around, the JL could assist on breaking her out but that seems unnecessary high superhero quotient. Getting her released (versus broken out) would require either expensive Ollie lawyers, a Lois Lane/Jimmy Olson expose, or possibly Clark destroying evidence (difficult with a time jump). But she's guilty so getting her released without doctoring evidence seems difficult. At this point, I'm going to have to say this one is too early to predict for me. If AM was only back for a handful of episodes I'd say "breakout" vs "release" all the way. BUT, 22 episodes with her on the lamb seems to really isolate her from the rest of the cast besides Clark. So, a "release" seems more necessary. Maybe a wizard does it. At this point I'm stumped.

Anyone else got ideas?

Personally, I don't think there's anything that needs immediate resolution. That's why I've been predicting a "three months later" timejump. They can very easily leave Clark and Kara missing for three months, and have Chloe have been languishing in jail, while Jimmy and Lois have been trying to get her out/panicking with everyone else at the mysterious disappearance of Lex Luthor.

That said, I do think it's obvious that Clark and Chloe's situations will be resolved in the premiere. What I'd like to see: the MM being the one to save Clark, possibly keeping him somewhere until he's completely healed/no longer under the effects of the Disco Ball, and Oliver in Metropolis helping in aid og Chloe getting released. I have a feeling that's wishful thinking, though.

I think Clark wakes up to find that Lex and fortress is gone, and I also think he'll be temporarly powerless and unable to get back home on his own. I think Contessa shows up of a LuthorCorp Jet, with a team of Lex's security, searching for Lex because his signal went missing. She'll find only Clark though, and thus begins all her suspicions about what exactly he was doing out there which will fuel her curiousity about him throughout the season. She won't find Lex but will find the crystal for the fortress, and she and her team will fly Clark back to Smallville with them.

Clark can't get to the PZ without Jor-El, so saving Kara isn't an option until the fortress is restored. I'm thinking this happens midseason.

As for Chloe's cliffhanger, I do think a trial of sorts is in order. I don't think it gets resolved in the premier, I think she spends the episode in jail for that episode, then the testimony of Jimmy, Lois, and Clark bails her out in the second episode. I have an idea about that. I'm thinking that Contessa will be there pressing for the government to throw the book at Chloe but Clark, Lois, and Jimmy will do some scoobying and come up with some sort of evidence which indicate that the Judge is a pawn of Lex and/or Contessa and Chloe will be freed on a mistrial and protected under double jeopardy. I'm hoping though that this scares the bejesus out of her and that she makes it clear to Clark that the days of her hacking for him are over.

I think that the lack of a "To be Continued" at the end of "Arctic" pretty much confirms that season 8 will start after some sort of a timejump. "Exodus" and "Covenant" had the same type of ending without the "To be Continued". My only problem with season 8 starting after a timejump is that the show will now have to sort of restart all of the storylines. Lex will be gone. Kara will most likely be gone. Brainiac being back for the premier or being back on this show at all in season 8 is not a lock. It just sounds like all of the momentum and all of the major storylines that were the focus of season 7 will be thrown aside come season 8. I hope that I'm wrong but if I'm right, the season 8 premier might end up being the worst premier of the series. JMHO.

... conveniently paving the way for Nois to step in and become Clark's best friend/confidante/sidekick.

It'd be completely OOC for Chloe to give up on Clark and her dreams. I, for one, would love to see her more determined to clean up the DP (seeing as J-Lo haven't noticed that something is wrong) and get back to working to get under the Tiffany lamps.

I don't know about the crystal part, but I was also thinking that Tess would be the one to find Clark in the Arctic while looking for her boss, who is missing without a trace. Thus we kick off a connection between Tess and Clark right off the bat. I like the idea that the Fortress collapsing on Clark's head did actually hurt him, and he has to recover, and regain his powers. I'd like it to happen very quickly, but it could help explain why Clark would actually need help when Tess finds him, and would appear human to her.

As for Chloe in jail, I'm actually hoping we get a story where she is released through legal means. I'd be really surprised if Oliver doesn't figure into this in some way, even if he isn't physically there. He has the means to hire lawyers, and pressure people in power. I doubt they'll even mention Martha Kent. Bringing her into the story opens too many cans of worms, like why she hasn't rushed home to her son about a dozen times over.



I think I'd prefer if Clark told her his days of relying on that are over. If Chloe wants to hack on her own, for her own purposes, thats up to her. But I'd like to see Clark not completely rely on this plot contrivance anymore, and I'd also like to see him being very reticent to put Chloe into a bad position like that again. And that doesn't mean goggling something, or researching on a computer. Anyone can do that, Clark, Chloe, Lois, Jimmy, Lana, etc. I am referring to unbelievable, contrived hacking.

I'm also hoping that Clark emerges from the trauma in the FOS with a renewed sense of purpose. I hope he decides to move away from having ANY sidekick for a while. Friends? Sure, thats great, nothing wrong with that. And I'd like to see him using his time with his friends to actually do friend things. But I think Clark needs to be sidekick-less for a while to firmly stand on his own. IMO



Give up on Clark as a friend? I agree. As for Chloe's dreams, I hope S8 establishes what they are at the present time. Dreams, and ambitions, and goals all change. If Chloe's have changed, I'd like for her to articulate them clearly, and unambigiously, ON screen.

How in the world would it not be totally dumb for Chloe having either been released or sprung from prison to go right back to hacking? Unless according to the Chlois theory she does it using Lois's name, yes, that's it! She will sully her cousin's name in order to remain close enough to Clark to keep hacking away!

Or...she stops hacking and still is Clark's best friend. That's probably the best scenario.

Why would hacking require any name from anyone doing it? And don't worry, I'm sure whatever info Chloe will get she'll give to Nois. She is her only source after all.



After they've taken the time out to show that her dreams haven't changed since the age of what was it ? 8 or something? They'd better have a spectacular reason for her to suddenly want discard those dreams. Because in my experience, people who've worked for their dreams for that long, and lose them unjustly usually hang on and work harder to regain those dreams. They don't give up on them.



IMO, that would make for a pretty boring episode. Clark and his relationships with those closest to him drive the show. To suddenly discard Chloe would be completely OOC for him especially at a time in his life when she's the only one that knows his secret. And more importantly, would probably need him as getting thrown in jail etc isn't the easiest thing to dismiss. Them supporting each other through her experience in jail and his in the FOS is something I want to see, no matter if it's discussed while they're investigating something or god forbid using a computer to get more information that they need.

Maybe he should start suddenly affecting computers. It's happening in the comics, there's no reason it shouldn't on the show.

I thought it was quite obvious that I was joking. My whole point is Chloe stops hacking, and it doesn't have to affect her relationship with Clark.

Really? Because I could've sworn Lois also had military contacts. And didn't we see her getting info from waiter in one episode? Which reminds me, I'd like them to put a little more effort into making Lois, or anyone else, more believably a journalist.



In my experiance, early 20's is a time that brings about a lot of change for people. I must know a dozen people who entered college for one thing, and ended up changing their mind along the way.

But in any case, I think Chloe finding out she's meteor infected, and can literally bring back people from the dead would qualify as a life altering event. I also think Chloe being drawn more and more into Clark's world, and rubbing elbows with the JLA would also qualify as a life altering event.

Whatever the case may be, I just want them to allow Chloe to articulate it on screen. Allow her to use some of AM's exposition talent for giving voice to Chloe's current hopes and dreams. That way we'll know whats current canon, and what isn't. Leaving it unsaid, on Offscreensville, is just confusing and frustrating. IMO



Who is suggesting he discard Chloe? I'm not suggesting that she stop being his best friend, or that they stop talking, or even working together. I am suggesting that Clark stop leaning on Chloe's skills as a crutch, and I am suggesting that the Mary Sue-ish ridiculous hacking should be much less frequent. Also, Clark and his relationships is right, so to see Clark also interacting more with other characters would be welcome. Ditto for Chloe.



As I originally said, I'm all for friends. I'd love to see more of Clark supporting Chloe as her friend. Sounds great to me. Instead of every Chlark conversation being about some crisis involving Clark, I'd love for them to get some changes of subject.

Exactly.


I'd love to see this as well. Batman has Robin. Lone Ranger has Tonto (he's not that "lone"!). And Clark has Chloe.


Hee. Wouldn't that make it hard for him to work at the DP?

Eta:
I believe Liv was referring to Nois telling Chloe that she's her first real source when Chloe hands Nois background info on Lex for the "expose" (in "Gemini").

If thats the case, then it makes sense that she might not be so gung ho about reporting and instead is making helping Clark a full time gig. Giving up her dream to help the man she loves to fufill his destiny.



And that would be the first time a reporter got a lead from somebody they know?

The actual quote was: The Lone Ranger has Tonto. Batman has Robin and now Clark has Lois (last panel).

I totally agree. Why does the idea of Clark having other relationships equate to not having a relationship with Chloe? In what world does two people only spending time with each other equate a healthy relationship? And how does it even equate good television? When the rumors surfaced of a Lois and Clark esque season 8, the main complaint was that that had already been done, so why is it okay for it to be the adventures of Chloe/Chlois and Clark?