AM is 5'5. About average height. Heck, I'm 5'2 and I don't march in the dwarf pride parade... unless I should. Is free cake involved?

I am both over the freaking moon and in the deepest despair at AM's return. I mean, I was so close to freedom and now I'm being pulled back in again. Damn you, AM!!! Now I'm going to have to watch villainous Cousin Olivers and more damned lazy lightswitches!!

Then again, I was inconsolably depressed at the idea of this season ending with a Chloe cliffhanger, then next season starting with a throw-away line about how Clark got a postcard from Chloe, who was happily running a healing tent revival in Little Rock. I'm glad to know that Chloe's resolution will happen onscreen.

Uber-"yay" that we get on-screen resolution. Dreading the potential for third-wheel. Clearly I'm back to watching in realtime next year unless they play the Chloe gets to watch Clois anvils. I do NOT want a repeat of "so much for my happy ending" of S4.

So, opening credits for S8--are we thinking:

TW
ED
AA
LV
Random Newbies
with KK
and AM as Chloe Sullivan

Either that, or AM gets second billing, I'd think.

I am oddly okay with Chloe stating at ISIS for a while on two conditions 1. No LnC redux over at The DP 2. They give her some storylines outside of being Clark's Chloogle.

Clark has only ever written for a high school paper which was years ago how and why would he get a job at The Planet over people who have worked their asses off to get there?

They've done nothing decent with Chloe the reporter for a long time so it would be nice to either explore other career avenues like protecting MFs or using ISIS to regain/improve her standing as a reporter.

See, this is the caveat to AM returning and my being forced to watch S8 (so...close...could...taste...the...freedom)--sitting through Nois (it's offical, I can't call her the other name anymore) and Clark make googly eyes at one another while Chloe's off with Jimmy doing some random nonsense. I'm curious about LV too--and worried about a Kara/Jimmy/Chloe triangle. However, I'm curious as to why LV's name was left off of the PR for S8. Wasn't she thought to have been signed? Was it just an error? Craig, any further news JH's pilot? Much rather have GA than Kara....

Lessee. How 'bout Oliver buys the DP, installs Perry White as Editor and tells him to hire and train CK? Mama Kent shows up in Vancouver, because hubby is a regular cast member, bakes some apple pies for Clark, who is exhausted from the Googling and the thinking and the showing up in a suit and all, and, except for the occasional villain of the week, all is well in Metropolis/Farmland.

Lex languidly lounges on a felucca somewhere between Aswan and Luxor, fondly remembering his youthful hijinks in a land far, far away. Good times.

I'm thinking I'd rather have AM in the number two spot. How about they redo it as;

Smallville...
starring TW...
and AM...
with AA...
ED...
Tess...
Doomtender...
and KK as Lana Lang...
Superman created by Seigal & Schuster...
Executive producers PS3.

This makes sense to me since, as TW and AM will be the only characters in all 22 episodes, they'll be effectively co-stars so putting the "and" between them would be a nice way to point that out. I suspect that even if she's only in the first five they'll still try to get KK's name in the credits just to make it look like they still have as much of the original cast as possible.

Personally, I'd also be perfectly fine with hearing that, in order to afford the deal with AM, they had to utterly scrap the character of Doomtender from season eight. If we also heard that they had to let AA and ED go in order to afford three (or two or, heck, just one) guest star appearances by MR... I'd be totally okay with that too.


So was JG. My guess is they decided she was too expensive (owing mostly to the extra FX shots she'd require rather than her actual paycheck) and so will be back, at best, for a guest spot to wrap her by sending her off to find her own place in the world.

Honestly, I will be disappointed if she doesn't get that number 2 spot. The girl has clocked some serious hours up till now and looks to be putting in that same time in S8. She has earned that number two spot and will continue to, IMO.

I think it could definitely be like this. However, I think that whoever it is in the 2nd spot, I hope it'll be more so like the 1st of the second section. I think to be honest, Tom Welling should have the first section all to himself. Then they can show the second group. Then the third. For the first five seasons, it was The Big Three in the first section. Then last season, TW and MR shared it. I think now, it should just be Tom, IMO.

I don't know if Kristin will be in the credits at all. It would be kind of cool if they made an opening credits variation, like "special guest star Heather Locklear as Amanda," for the episodes that KK is in, and left her off when she is not, but then again I thought they should've done that for the GA episodes too.

Guess we'll see in... 4 months? Gah! So far away!

I disagree. AM has done just as much as Tom has. In fact, AM has been there the whole time since season 1. I don't think TW has particularly done that much more than AM has, and IMO they should both share the first spot. KK got to share that spot, and IMO AM did more than KK (no offense to KK). She has more than earned second billing IMO, after TW. I don't really care for the other characters (Nois, Jimmy, Kara, randomn unnecessary newbies, and so on...), but if anyone deserved anything, it is AM. Especially after the way they have treated her over the years (practically zero promotion despite the fact that she's clocked second highest screentime after TW). JMO, YMMV.


I thought that is what they did in "Siren"? I am probably wrong, I always ff through the credits because the song has become very tiring after seven seasons and because of Lana (it's sad because when the show begun I would have loved to watch anything KK is in, now since they made me loathe Lana soo soo much, I don't think I'll ever watch anything KK is in, because seeing her would just remind me of Lana and how much I hated her. I even refuse to watch anything on the CW Smallville site because of the picture they have of Lana that shows up everytime you click on a Smallville clip (DC, Promos etc). Oh Smallville you ruined it for me).

Justin Hartley has never been listed in the opening credits. I think they may have credited him as a special guest star after the credits though.



On Charmed only cast members appearing in the actual episode were in the opening credits. So if it were an episode where say Leo, or Cole, didn't appear then those actors were removed from the opening credits.

But Smallville doesn't seem to do this, since all the 13 episoders stay in the credits whether they're in the episode or not.

If Kristin IS only in five episodes of the season, I'd really prefer they keep her out of the main credits altogether.

But KK had been part of the Big Three since the show began. Look at the promotion still, it's TW, MR, and KK. I realize people don't like that and I understand what you're saying as far as what AM has contributed to the show, but the fact is, is that KK was part of the Big Three. Note that when it's expanded to "Core Four," that's when AM is included. This being said, I certainly do think the originals deserve their due and of course, that's AM.

However, what's wrong with TW being all by himself in the first group? He is Superman. And if AM leads the second group, she's still "second". I agree with those who think it might be even a bigger honor for her to be "and Allison Mack as Chloe Sullivan" though. TW will lead things off and AM will close them out. That's definitely respect. But again, JMHO as well. I realize others won't feel the same.

I think so, too. I can't imagine it takes much to redo credits. Wasn't this done for AM? The credits for "Crusade" didn't include her, but then afterwards, when Chloe was saved, they added her in? I think so.

LOL, I know!

Here's some speculation, probably more of wishful thinking...

But considering tonight's cliffhanger... has Michael really said he's not coming back at all, even for guest shots? What if TPTB went after him with a really good deal?

I guess I'm just thinking out loud, that if he were to appear in say, the season premiere and the series finale, it would really soften the blow of losing him.

I don't think you'd need him for the premiere. And he's probably a lot harder to convince right now, when he's just leaving the show behind. But maybe in a few months, and some creative thinking and financing, I think it would be awesome if they could convince him to come back for a few at the very end. Lex Luthor reappear! I think that would help to put the show to bed on a high note. And maybe when MR's had a chance to miss the show, and the people that work on it, he'll be more agreeable to a short stint. If they can think of a way for him to not shave his head.

He has said this, very firmly.

However, as BadToad says, if he didn't have to shave his head (ie playing an AU!Lex) perhaps he might reconsider?

I'm torn: I loved the Clex finale so much I'm kinda happy to leave the boys just like that!

I was talking about next season though. I don't mind the fact that KK was in the top 3 or top 4, she is after all the female lead although that line got blurred by how much AM was doing. That said, I was actually talking about season 8, and the fact that AM deserves second billing and not ED (no offense to ED). JMHO

My buddy thinks that Lex will be back next season, but in child form. And that Clark will have to raise him. At first I thought it sounded like a terrible 80s sitcom, but then I thought maybe the CW really is that terrible.

Maybe they'll do something like when Michael Vartan left Alias and have him resurface when they realize the show works better with him around. (But in the case of Alias, losing Vaughn for Season 5 was not its biggest problem that year)

I think it was Chiriru who suggested that Lex takes up the hairpiece thing next season. That way, Michael wouldn't have to shave his head, and all will be good in the world.

They could save more money by bringing Lex back in cat form...

Clark: "Lex! Off the sofa!! You don't care about anyone but yourself."

Maybe they can do like South Park did after Isaac Hayes left and just reanimate Lex with old clips.

"The days of your just walking into here are over"
"You have no idea what I'm capable of"
"I may be one thing, but I am not my father"

Surely they can edit something together.

Like Pearl did to Dr. Forrester between CC!MST and Sci!Fi!MST. I can see that. Or like the wife did to her husband who was turned into a baby in that creepy Merlin's Shop of Mystical Wonders segment of (also an MST3K episode).

I just want Tess to be Lex. I don't care how they explain it. Jor-El caused Sex Change operation; a disguise (which goes without saying that he's always wanted to wear). Just turn Lex into a woman and we'll forgive you somewhat.

Maybe part of Lex was transferred to Clark? The stone was supposed to be about controlling Clark so what better way than to have part of yourself transferred to Clark plus it fits in with the cave drawings. Finally Lex is inside Clark! Of course the stone would only transfer the good parts of Lex.

Tess as Lex would make me smile. And laugh. I could so get behind that.

ITA. I'm definitely torn.

I really think this was the endgame Goughlar kept talking about having for the past couple seasons. Chock full o' retcon, yes, but I think they did want Lex to go out this way. Logic dictates that he's still alive, but how? Falling pillars of ice crushed him, and no security team could follow him to pull him out. Chloe and Kara were the only other two who could get to the FoS, and they're not available for rescue.

Geez, they're probably going to end up pulling a Tess saved him thing, aren't they? Bleech.

Overall, I have this horrible feeling that real!Lex is dead, and if Lex returns, it'll be clone!Lex or something awful (Lex as Tess, however, would be wonderful).

I would love the return of little CS, even if that idea is really silly, even for the CW.

You know, cloned Lex would at least make the Grulian plotline mean something. Lex has perfected cloning technology. He can create artificial humans, grown to adulthood in a few months, and implanted with the memories of a lifetime.

If he doesn't have an assembly line of copies of himself, into which he performs off-site backups of his brain every week or two just in case he dies, he isn't the supervillain we all know he can be.

Now, would he make one of his backups female? Not touching that with a ten foot pole.

I'm not sure if that thing you're talking about is still considered a spoiler (I'd have to think about it and it's still a little early to do that) so this is just a general note: Please don't post spoilers in here, even with tags. Thanks.

Could it be possible that, somehow, Clark was able to shield him and save him? I hope so. They could it explain it by saying that Clark shielded him somehow, but was knocked unconscious. When he comes to, Lex is just gone. That would be a nice twist on the scene, and keep the dysfunctional Clex going strong.

The power of their love! The HoYay! kept them alive!

Hey, it makes more sense than GroisGate or Not!Baby.

Good idea, BadToad. I would really like that. Like a lot. And I would immediately pissed that we didn't see it onscreen (because it would be awesome to see), but IMO, if Lex is truly alive, that's the way to go. It sets up their future well.

That's true. I guess he would be identical to Lex (depending on when the brain was "backed up"). And of cource comics!Lex cloned himself, and it would be a smart supervillain thing to do. Something about the idea just kind of... I dunno, bothers me.

ETA: It bothers me because I think that the FoS scene in "Arctic" is essential for both Clark and Lex in the future, and clone!Lex cannot possibly remember it.

Well, given how SV is written I guess they make just something up that serves their purposes. I think that we are all trying to hard to come up with a logical explanation.

I agree. I think this would cheapen the story of Lex Luthor and ruin the ending and I'd still consider it another mindwipe, which after last night I wouldn't stand for.

Cylon download because of the glowy purple dice. That way Lex has a new body and he also remembers what happened in the fortress.

ETA b/c a "fortress" is not a "forest", even if I believe the writers can't see the forest for the trees.

What would be utterly fascinating (to me anyway) would be to learn that part of Jor-El's thinking was that if Clark did in fact grow to be a threat and the pink glowing orb of Ho-yay had to be deployed to stop Clark, part of the strategy was that Clark was to be deported to the Phantom Zone to be confined there (that would call for a retcon of Zod and other season 6 elements). It's interesting to think that maybe Lex was the one who was actually transported there as the FOS was collapsing in Arctic. Of course, Clark will return in the season 8 premiere while Lex would be in the Zone. Also interesting is the idea that as Lex would be transported to the Zone, Kara is somehow freed in the process.

If the show could talk Rosenbaum into atleast 3-5 episodes next season, there's opportunity-o-plenty to play with that kind of idea. While in the Zone, Lex learns about alien civilizations and his concern for the earth continues to grow as he gets acquainted with some of the savages who occupy the PZ. Perhaps Lex strikes some working relationships with a few Zoners who might accompany him back to the earth after they discover some way to leave the Zone. This really beats the idea of a Tess character to pieces because instead of that character, we get a Zoner posing as a normal human doing Lex's bidding because Lex would then be in hiding or something. While Lex is in hiding, he grows more eccentric and develops an affinity for wigs, or maybe the climate of the Zone causes his natural hair to re-grow. There are all kinds of simple ways for the show to work around MR having to shave his head for the role.

You know that bothers me a lot. I mean they lose the one of the best character/actor of the show because they couldn't find a way to have him without shaving his head? Really? on a Sci-fi/fantasy show? I find it strange they could had used magic, cloning technology or just a membership of men's hair club we had seen actress pregnancies that get worked around if needed (not always succesful mind you) so I think in comparison with all the crap this show has done we could had easily swallowed a Lex with hair as long as there was a follow up to this fantastic idea of him knowing.
I really hope they find a way to pay Michael for a few episodes (with his hair) to play the will he tell or not thing that I had expected for 7 years.

I know that the shaving is the obivous big thing, but I somehow doubt that this alone would have changed anything about his decision. In fact, I guess that it was one of the first things PES3 put on the table during the negotiations. I don't blame them for not being able to sign him for another year. But I blame them entirely for not planing ahead and giving us this half-assed resolution.

I put this in the media thread, but since it will have a bit impact on season 8 speculation I figured I'd post it here as well.

Laura Vandervoort not back as a regular next season.

I will always be grateful that LV did not pursue the IPOD-loving brat-girl plans that Goughlar originally had. I think she did a good job of bringing more depth in. I do agree that they really limited her interactions to just Clark/Lana/Lex/Jimmy but thought they could make it work and expand who she talked to. The lame CGI effects of Arctic, however, may be the biggest indicator of why they let her go.

Combine that with the CW problems to stay alive --- I'm just hoping SV can limp thru S8 without turning to sock puppets.

Why couldn't they get rid of Jimmy? At least Kara was pretty.

I don't think it's fair to come to that conclusion when both sides of things are not known.

The budget is being drastically cut, and for example, if it was to choose between her and AM for next year, who would you rather have? I'd imagine the Kara effects are expensive too.

That being said, though, I am glad they hope to bring her back in guest shots. I still want a JLU-style Green Arrow and Supergirl team-up.

That's disappointing. The more I think about S7, the more I appreciate LV, if not Kara herself. But then again, I wouldn't want them to try to shoehorn her into any more plots since it was clear they didn't know what to do with her.

I hope she gets out of the PZ and gets a proper ending. Either something like her time in the PZ is too much for her and Martian Manhunter takes her to his home to get better or she joins the JL on their quests. At the very least, I want Clark to mention here in the premiere and acknowledge that he wants to help her.

Lara, you're a sweet girl and all, but, take care and good luck. Not really upset that you are leaving because too much of the shows FX budget were spent on you this year (seriously, I think Clark forgot he could blow really hard(and, yes, I'm aware of the joke here) and shoot fire from his eyes this year).

If your leaving means that I am going to get to see, you know, SUPERMAN, use his powers then don't let the door hit your cute little ass (because you are hot as hell girl) on the way out.

They didn't tell her before the official announcement? Man. That's... kinda harsh. I'm sure there were a lot of things that went into the decision (budget, storyline, etc), but to not tell her? I really hope I'm taking that wrong, because if not, I lost a lot of respect for people I didn't respect all that much to begin with.

That'd be cool, although honestly, I just want to see her get out of the Phantom Zone at this point. *shudders*

Word to all of these!

IA. A mindwipe is the one thing that would actually make me stop watching this show, period.

That could be really interesting.

Kara was not my favorite character, but Laura did a decent job in the role, and talk about a disappointing ending for her fans. Kara's just left in the Phantom Zone--and hear I was worried about Chloe's part of the season finale!

I feel badly for LV and her fans, and she seems to be handling things with graciousness and class, but I have to ask: what is with the CW treating their talent like crap? First we have AM's last minute negotiations and then LV is left off the S8 cast list and that is how she finds out she isn't coming back to S8.

And yet KK gets a film crew sent to Thailand to film a 2 minute scene. I know this isn't KK's fault, but this shows what actors are important to the SV producers, and which aren't.

I don't think AM's negotiations were last minute - they started talking to her as soon as talks with MR were done - nor do I think this is how LV found out she wasn't back in S8. It's more likely her quote was taken slightly out of context, which isn't unusual.

I'm sure LV is a nice person and her Kara was alright, but honestly, I won't miss her. The character really doesn't serve much of a purpose at this point...the only chemistry (not romantic, just in general) I really felt she had was with Lex, and since MR's gone, I can't imagine what she would do besides get into a Chimmy triangle and that's just vomitous. And I think it's clear that the House of El stuff was sort of a bust. I would imagine, though, that her ousting wasn't to free up money for AM (considering MR's salary was freed up too), but rather to keep funds available for guest stars like JH and the other actors who play the JL members. I'd also like to see Martha return here and there, and some more money spent on effects for Clark. If LV's salary can manage that, I'm totally in support of it.

If it was done in a less than professional manner, well, yeah, that's not cool. But I won't lose sleep over her absence next season at all.

I really hope this is the case. It's not unusual, you're right. I can't imagine someone seriously doing not telling her and letting her, I dunno, read about it on the internet, which is why I want to have taken that wrong.

IA. They certainly were done at a nailbiting place in the year, but it seems like they got on it as soon as they had final word from MR.

I'm pretty sure that the original info of a crew being sent to Thailand was a mistake and what actually happened was the Street Fighter crew shot KK's scene. Lana is still a favorite and given too much importantce IMO, but just thought I'd point that out.

This is correct - it was local crew. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if KK did her own makeup & clothes. It was such a tight shot - a white room w/ a video camera look to it.

Could MR return for some VO work as being "loaded" into Clark's mind? If the Isuckahedron was supposed to protect mankind, presumably it must have been able to do something if Clark hadn't even been there?