Hmm..this is an interesting theory. It would be kind of cool if Swann was Jor-El Questions though; Why woulden't Jor-El have just send Kal-El down, then once they were both on earth, find him and raise him himself? Or, if two people could be sent down, why woulden't he have sent himself and Kal together? There's also a theory in the Legacy thread that Swann is really Zod. I'm not sure if that's totally plausable, but I'm not really a mythology buff. What do you guys in here think about it?

I'm moving this over here from the Legacy thread.

I agree it could go many ways. I do think that Swann has some type of initimate relationship with Krypton.

Being Zod would be interesting.

tropical- like I said, I think that Jor-El may have came to Earth first to scount things out and then was injured...going along with the Swann is Jor-El idea.

But that theory from the Legacy thread is pretty compelling too.

Or any other exiled Kryptonian. Being disabled on Earth is part of his punishment and he'll manipulate Clark to gain whatever.

Or Swann was part of a scout team, who was injured and left behind.

But then who sent Kal down if Jor-El was stuck here on earth, injured? (if you already answered this somewhere, sorry, im dense :s)

Could it possibly be Lara, Kal's mother? I don't think she's been mentioned on the show yet.

Perhaps it's his Uncle El-Vis, the black sheep of the family. Tried to conquer Earth through song, instead of strength, but hit a small snag along the way.

Yep, but then they'd be completly fucking with canon, as we know that both parents sent baby Kal off. Also, don't we supposidly see both Lara and Jor-El sending Kal off in an upcoming episode? Memoria, I belive?

There is no reason that Jor-El could not have sent Clark himself.

To traverse the space between our planet and Krypton, I imagine Jor-El had a pretty fast ship because from what I understand, our planets are pretty far apart. Clark arrived with the remains of Krypton, meaning he was traveling at their speed. While the speed of planetary debris is probably pretty fast, it does not have constant propulsion so once it reaches a certain inertial speed, that is it, while I would like to think that someone as advanced as Jor-El might have a faster ship.

So imagine that Jor-El gets ready to send Clark off in the ship right before the planet explodes. His ship is going slow enough for the planet debris to catch up. It would be easy for Jor-El to hop in a ship, travel to Earth at a much faster speed, scout things out, THEN get injured and take on the persona of Dr. Swann.

Ohhh! Ok, I finally get it! Thanks. You're right, that does kinda make sense...lots of sense...hmmm....would he stay injured though? Shouldn't the sun heal him, like it would with Clark?

I cannot explain why he is still injured.

And now that I think about, it seems that Swann is NOT Jor-El, but a prisoner as was said before over in the "Legacy" thread -- his injuries were inflicted upon him as punishment.

So my theory in that direction would be:

Swann is from Krypton and is being punished by being made to be paralysed. He finds out that Clark was sent here and so he commandeers the program left by Jor-El for Clark and uses it to steer Clark and Bo in a direction he chooses.

mmm, speculation is fun.

You know how the Sun energizes Clark... maybe the Sun cripples Swann? Maybe he is not from Krypton, but another planet all together, and he was exiled to Earth by the people of Krypton?


Yeah.

I was wondering if anyone has kept track of who all has had possession of the octogon key. I know the Kents have had it, as well as Lex, Lionel, Dr. Swann, and, I think, Professor Hamilton, but I don't remember in what order.

I don't know if there is another thread that would be better suited for this question. If so, feel free to point me in that direction.

Hamilton was the one who found it, then Lex had it, then Nixon stole it and activated the ship. It fell out of the ship, I think, and I don't remember where it ended up next. Or how. Lionel had it for a while, then Martha took it and hid it. Then the government had it, and Bo and Clark got it back.

IMHO, if the writers decided to make Swann Kryptonian, the most logical reason for his chair would be some kind of permanent damage from massive kryptonite exposure, maybe bad shielding in the ship or damage from the experiment to make the ship. Even paralysis wouldn't do much to an adult Kryptonian, who could presumably fly. Alternately, you could give the kryptonian a degenerative nerve disease like MS, but severe kryptonite exposure seems the way to go.

Apologies if this next bit should go on another thread, but . . .



1) IMHO, Clark had to travel here at light speed, and the debris was somehow sucked along by his ship's propulsion field or whatever. Points:

a- Swann detects the kryptonian message right around the time of the ship arrival/meteor strike.

b- Swann is able to backtrack the message to Krypton, which suggests that the message is broadcast from Krypton, not from the ship. (If the message actually came from Krypton and arrived at or about the same time as Clark, then Clark travelled at or about lightspeed.)

c- Swann looks for Krypton, but by the time he finishes backtracking, the planet is gone, which indicates that Clark didn't travel any faster than lightspeed, because if Clark did travel faster than light, then the planet would still appear to be there for some time after Clark arrived.

d- If the message was broadcast from the ship, though, and Swann backtracked it through some unknown means, then Clark could have travelled at any speed at or lower than light.

e- Even if the message was broadcast from the ship, if we assume that Krypton still existed in 1962, when Jor-El was in Smallville, and assuming that Clark didn't travel any faster than light, then Krypton can't be more than 30 light years away or so. Even if Jor-El travelled back to Krypton instantaneously, detected the imminent explosion, and launched Clark immediately, Clark couldn't travel more than 30 light years in the 30 years or so until his arrival by definition.

2) By contrast, unless Krypton is very close, Jor-El has access to FTL travel.

a- Jorell was here in 1962 or so. If Jor-El could only travel at light speed, then Krypton would have to be within 15 light years - 15 years for Jor-El to get back, immediately launch Clark, and 15 years to get here. I've forgotten my astronomy, but I don't think there are more than a handful of star systems that are that close. However, if Jor-El could travel much faster, then you expand the range to as much as 30 light years.

b- It also seems implausible that Jor-El is limited to light speed, since this would mean that his father sent him on a decades-long voyage to learn some lesson about life.

huh? jk

Unfortunately, Fluffy San, you seem to be putting way more thought into this than AlMiles, so they still have a lot of freedom to mess around.

Perhaps Louise got Joe-El pregnant and Clark is the result. It would explain his remarkable resemblance to her great niece.

*runs away*

min Ahahahaha. Excellent.

In all forms of Superman that I've seen he always gets the info about Krypton from his father, which would indicate Swann being Jor-El. Would AlMiles cock up canon that much though? I don't think he is but a Krypton prisoner would be excellent.

Speaking of 'beyond',

If this alleged Superman movie is made, I want Lara Flynn Boyle to play Lois.

I have a feeling we are going to be treated to a scene where Lana talks about how no one really knows the real her, not even Chloe, her best friend who Lana regards as the best sister ever and always trusted, but who didn't even know what a burning, deep passion Lana has always had for art.

Ew. Not if Josh Hartnett or (shudder) Justin Timberlake are being considered to play Clark Kent (as the rumors claim). I don't handle younger man/older woman relationships well, even if she is only 35 or so. (I know. It is a stupid prejudice of mine.) Plus, she is just to damn... .pointy for my taste.

And then, across America, a miraculous thing shall happen ... tvs shall fly through the air, springing free of the wall socket and sailing majestically through windows in one last gasp of freedom.

Snort. Ya'll crack me up. What would I do at work without you?

According to the Ledger The Talon is going to be turned into a fast food Mexican restaurant.

Will we actually get to see this? Will Lana come back from Paris (if she actually makes it there) and be upset that the Monument to the Langs Memories has been turned into a "Burito Ole"? Will the new owner offer to name a new tortilla special after the Langs? Will the "kids" start hanging out at the Beanery again? It was shut down for a while in season 1 but maybe it's still operating.

Hey, is that a TWOP Forums shout out? You know, wrapping the show in a kryptonite tortilla, and all that?

Snerk. This cracked my shit up for some reason.

I hate to think what kind of superpower Clark might develop after eating Kryptonite-laced Mexican food. (:-)

Green Kryptonite Guacamole!

It's not the kind of kryptogas you could fuel Pete's cars with...

Tortillas? Pancakes? Someone out there among tptb is paying attention. Or just likes flat, lifeless things............. which could explain the Lana-love, I guess.

I love the idea of Lana returning from Paris and looking for the Talon, only it's not there. She'll probably just keep wandering the two streets of downtown Smallville trying to find it - because she wants to do these things on her own, so she won't ask for help.

She'll come back and then be upset, and ask Lex to buy the restaurant back, so she can turn it back into the Talon.

Lana: How could you do this?
Lex: We both agreed to sell it.
Lana: But I didn't mean it and you should have known it!
Lex: I gotta get different friends.

I just got a mental image of Lex giving Lana a job there and making her wear a giant Mexican Sombrero hat.

This is probably more a wishlist than speculation, but what the heck?

Things I want to see next season

1. Chloe gets a love interest. A non-fotw one. A cute one. One who is crazy about her and wants to see her Chloevage (thus letting us see it as well.)

2. Clark finally sees some cracks in Lana's shiny pink armor. And doesn't just ignore them or make excuses for them.

3. Lex decides friends are nice but hot one night stands are pretty nice too, and proceeds to spend some time in Metropolis hooking up with WB-stable wanabees. He sheds his shirt a lot. Sorry, MR, but this requires a lot of shaving.

Can they introduce other DC characters that don't have movies being made about them currently? because I would love to see Wally West (aka The Flash) make an appearence on the show...maybe to plant some ideas in Clark's head about being a superhero, since the Flash had been doing the undercover hero bit since he was a teen.

Plus, they could have him and Chloe really hit it off and he'd share his secret with her, which would show Clark that it *is* possible to balance his secret with having open, honest love. With Lex.

So how do people see a potential "the gloves are off between Clark and Lex" thing working from here on in?

I dunno about you, but with all their interactions lately being so snarky and adversarial, I can't imagine wanting to sit through a season of nothing but Clex snark. Lex already looks at Clark like he's a couple of planets short of a solar system and Clark's lines seem to have been reduced to variations of "you're just like your father", which obviously pushes a button with Lex, but it's gonna get old real quick. I think they're in danger of turning Clex into the new Clana -- the same scene over and over again.

The idea that perhaps it would be Lex and Superman who have the rift, and Lex and Clark could maintain civil relations is not going to work for this series, because the "Superman" persona is not scheduled to make an appearance.

I was thinking that there is a precedent at least in other DC treatments for Clark and Lex to continue to bitch and gripe at each other, foiling each other's schemes, and yet when either is seriously hurt or theatened by someone else, they show a great deal of concern for each other. They are almost proprietorial. Sort of like an old married couple. Can't stand each other, but can't stand anyone one else to hurt each other either.

The other thing this show might be able to introduce is some humour. Smallville doesn't really do humour and I thought there might be some occasion in the midst of Clark and Lex having at it to play with the lighter, more ironic aspects of their mutual frustrations with each other. Anything to break up the dismal prospect of any Clex scene from here on in being hateful, petty bitching, or worse, little Clex at all because they are constantly scheming behind each other's backs now and rarely interact. That would just suck the life right outta the series.

Or I could be wrong, and there's a groundswell of support to see Evil!Lex step up to Magnificent Bastardry, surpassing his father, toying with all Clark's loved ones like pawns in a giant chess game. Personally, I don't want to see this Lex go there because it would be the worst kind of tragedy for the anti-hero character they have put so much effort into creating. But I know there are lots of posts supporting the idea of Lex seducing Lana to spite Clark out of petty revenge.

What are people's thoughts about how they can make Bitchin!Clex actually work for another season?

OK, my Sekrit Evol Plan for Bitchin!Clex is for Lex to be so fed up with Clark by season's end that he starts actively seeking to hurt him. However. We won't know this for sure till the end of S4. What *will* happen is, Lex and Clark will *appear* to mend their bridges and maintain a friendship. Lex will be hugely plausible as a friend to Clark. We, OTOH, will see him doing increasingly dodgy things that just don't add up with what he is saying to Clark. Clark might even start relaxing around Lex and trusting him. Ditto the Kents. ANd then, kerblam! Lex does a major turnaround. And it will all be the BDA's fault for treating Lex like crap one time too many. He and the Kents will *know this*. Hell, I could even tolerate it if it were Wah Nah who started gently and pinkly pointing out that Clark hasn't always been very nice to Lex, just so long as Lex doesn't fall in love with her.

Yes, it's tragic and awful but hell, we already have Rift. We might as well get Pretend NotRift which will also consolidate Lex as "bad" in the eyes of the dim.

I concur - with his descent towards the drak, he needs to get back on the casual sex horse. Lots and lots of brittle, bitchy, sophisticated women. Only problem with that would be the counterpoint of Her Pinkness and her virginal, saintly allure. She must reveal her feet of clay forthwith. I'm not letting him fall for that ninny.

Ah... okay. That's what I was afraid of.

I don't know, because my biggest fear is that I'll just be as bored with it as I am the Clana. If the "rift" had happened right after season 1, I think I might have been more emotionally invested in it. I think the pinnacle of their friendship was probably the loft scene with Lex tying Clark's tie for him. There was some friendship in season 2, but season 2 was trying to make Lex more "grownup" with two marriages, less time with the high school kids, and more fighting with his father. So, I think they focused less on his relationship with Clark.

Now in season 3, with the exception of Phoenix and Shattered/Asylum, their relationship is already kind of adversarial. Clark makes an accusation, Lex asks clark for the truth, Clark gets defensive, lies, Lex gets fed up. It's gotten almost as repetitive as Clana "sekrith and lieth" scenes with the exception that at least Clark and Lex have chemistry. So I don't look forward to more of the same next year.

But I'd maybe like to see Lex think of Clark as more of a threat. I don't know if he'd have to officially know the secret or not to do that... I think he all but knows now anyway.

Exactly Cyb. Just like the Clana. And that is hardly a relationship that's set the world on fire this last couple of seasons.

I'm afraid they'll just keep going over the same ground again and again with this series, and the Clex will become the new Clana -- boring and repetitive. Now they've decided that Clark and Lex are becoming enemies, where can they actually go with that? Isn't that the end of the story? Doesn't that bring us back to the bit we all know about already? Doesn't that become the "oh, I've already seen this bit" scenario?

The show is at its best when it ventures into brave new territory, and I think it was that potential for this new twist on a favourite story that propelled the series to such success when it first debuted.

I think if there's one thing this show has done well, it's that it's actually found a new way to tell the Superman story.

Instead of Superman being an icon of Americana -- all about truth, justice and stuff -- he's been a conflicted teen for whom these ideals come at a price. And instead of Lex being a one-dimensional representation of Evil, he's been a real character with needs and wants and valid grievances.

So in this retelling, for the first time, we've had both sides of one of the most famous stories in our culture. The neverending battle between good and evil. And this is such a timely re-examination with the world the way it is.

And if Superman is a representation of the ideals of our society, here we have a show where we re-examine the classic 'enemy' to see why he hates the 'hero' so much. And we see that there are geniune reasons why he's fed up with all the hero's somewhat hypocritical shit.

But if Smallville goes back to telling the old Superman story, then it will all be for nothing. We find out that the likeable villain was really just evil all along, and we were right to hate and distrust him. We fall back into our comfort zone where we are always right and the enemy is always wrong.

And Smallville becomes the same Superman story they were telling in 1940 when Superman was chiefly a propaganda tool against the Nazis.

I'm hoping that as the gloves come off, the intensity of the relationship picks up. If each thinks he's trying to get through to the other - to save the other, in a way - then the concern they have for each other could change the underlying tone of the whole thing. They could be on opposite sides of an issue/argument, at times even actively thwarting each other's efforts to accomplish something, and yet not lose the overriding sense that they care for each other - as friends, of course.

Lex's comment at the end of Talisman could be an indication that this will be more of a give-and-take, with Lex occasionally keeping an eye on Clark to make sure he doesn't do something stupid (i.e. blowing up spaceships or robbing banks while on RedK), just as Clark may step up to the plate to push Lex when he learns of some of the things Lex is up to.

Sometimes Clark will be successful, sometimes Lex will be. But I think it's possible that with the two of them actively arguing and involved in each other's lives, that the CLex factor could rise a notch or two. If done well, it could tie the early friendship to a bit of the love/hate stuff they have in some future versions. At least, it could be something more than the meh stuff that's defined their relationship lately, where they often seem to be only on the periphery of each other's lives.

So okay, my trip down de Nile passes by a lot of tacky Talonesque decorations, but I'm staying firmly on the barge. And I really do think it's possible for the whole "gloves coming off" to play out in a positive way for the CLex.

Yes I fear they won't trust the viewer to 'get it' so we'll get similar scenes and conversations over and over, like all the honesty clana barn talks, or the endless clana breakups. The slight plus side is that MR and TW have much more chemistry than TW and KK, but still, even then I would probably get bored. I'm already bored by Clark's repeated accusations.


I like klulu's idea. I don't want to see another near-whole season of Clark's righteousness and defensiveness. If it were more of a give and take with each of them actively trying to "help" or save the other in their own way, it might work. I don't know if PTB would go for something that subtel though.

They're going to either have to explain how Lex doesn't know Clark=superman in the future, or else just let him know Clark's an alien now, imo. There's no way he wouldn't know in the future unless he has some more psychotic breaks where he forgets his own former best friend.

leapinglucas:
As much as I am terrified of it happening, it has the potential to rock(which scares me even more knowing the history of this show and potenial, but I digress). To be a very dull creature, I would say it could be a beautiful thing with the potenial for sparky interactions and a sinster darkness if it was in the line of the pairings i think i keep constantly quoting(Syd/Sark,Jack/Irina,Buffy/Angelus{for the dark,but not the spark},Jack/Sloane, Sloane/Syd,Spike/Angel,). If it could be like that, then I would regain my pure love for the show,since it would have this basis of some weird normalcy, but also this sense of antagonism-such as klulu describes it in her always glorious posts.You could have the Clexy vibe that we all know and love, because there would be a sense of friendship to it, but then there would also be this sense of a double life

The bad would be,as the rest of you lovely people say(word to you Cyb), Clark wailing like he is on a soap opera about how you've become your father and Lex just goes all stage/presound b&w film villan,and start doing Very Bad Things to people-like tying them to train tracks, foreclosing on widows and orphans, and the like- It would be like watching Passions or some sort of crazy soap opera.

There is a bit in classifieds of The Ledger saying something about "learning to swim like a fish" at Crater's Lake. My insane mind immediately jumped to the thought of Clark meeting Lori Lemaris next season. Then I realised that, traditionally, mermaids live in the ocean, not in lakes. Still, maybe there will be a Lori Lemaris showing up next season, without being exactly like the one Clark has encountered in the comics... I wouldn't put it past the SV writers to use the name without sticking to the comics version of that particular character.

Maybe not a mermaid, but they could decide to follow Charmed's lead and do a Lady of the Lake story. Maybe that dagger wasn't actually destroyed and it's just stuck in a stone somewhere.

kluklu
ITA with this. The one thing I'm hoping for is that, whichever way they go, they manage to bring the passion back to their relationship. I'm not talking gay, just two people who are inescapably tied up in each other's lives.

The way Clark used to look at Lex and Lex used to look at Clark -- there was something really powerful going on there. Then, since the end of Season1, they seemed to both go their own separate ways. Clark was off mooning after Lana and Lex was off with a series of broken relationships and fighting against his father and Clark only ever turned up at the mansion when he wanted something, it seemed, making him look shallow. Hardly the sort of friendship we're gonna mourn. They were like ships that passed in the night.

My fear is that in the new season their ships will encounter each other even more rarely. Have we seen our last hug? Our last smouldering look? Bring back the passion!

Isn't it about time for a Season 4 spex thread?

Here's my grownup Christmas wishlist for S4.

Lionel in hiding: beaten, bloodied but unbowed. Living in the sort of tenement from whence he came, with a single, bare lightbulb and a gurgling sink. I know he's probably got millions hidden around the place for just such an eventuality, but I want to see him walking out of a corner store with a loaf of bread, a carton of milk, and the Wall Street Journal. I want to see him use his wits to claw his way back again, while Lex reigns like a prince over his empire, exceeding even his father's reach. And in the meantime, Lionel gets a girlfriend. Somebody unsophisticated who'll slap him around a little -- and then they have great sex.

Lex and Lana as "just good friends": I spit on the Lexana but dang them, they've won me over. Having Lex and Lana find this strange sort of comfortable peace and companionship is actually kinda working for me. They would never have hooked up on their own, but Clark has kinda forced them to seek refuge in each other. It's the first time for me that Lana has seemed to have a legitimate role in somebody's life as just herself.

She can start to fall in love with him and be someone he can confide in (because from a storytelling point of view, the Lex character is going to need that if he doesn't have Lionel or Clark any more). Lex can only ever look on her as a little sister and be gentle and kind with her, even while he closes everyone else out. Burn me at the stake now, but I don't want a whole season of miserable Lex being miserable and him and Clark snarking at each other.

Lex as the hero: I love this new acknowledgement within the text of the story. The balance between him and Clark. After Lex's line to Pete in Forsaken I don't think even Lex completely trusts himself any more, if indeed he ever did. Maybe it's just that he's acknowledged that salvation will continue to be denied him. But even as Lex gets bitter and twisted and does things that he can't forgive himself for, let us continue to see the inner-core of goodness that made us love him in the first place. Bury it as deep as you like, AlMiles, but don't extinguish it altogether.

Chloe: Chloe in hiding. Chloe in trouble. Chloe in a dark do and sunglasses. Chloe in league with Lex. Chloe in the whole of next season, and the one after that.

The Kents getting a clue: Soon, please.

So, how about you guys?

Maybe Morgan Edge is still alive and Lionel and him can run around together in the slums like the old days. Lionel would have to listen to opera from a local radio station, with a small crappy radio that keep picking up rap music instead.

Lana comes back from Paris with short curly hair. KK has beautiful hair but I'm really sick of that style after 3 yrs. (This is more a wish than a speculation.)

Clark finally gets a clue about his behavior. Clark finally gets a clue about Lana. Lana finally gets a clue about Lana.

People barely remember Pete except when using Ask Jeeves, Lemon Pledge, or listening to Remy Zero.

S4?

The MB: As long as he's around, I'm happy. But I'd really like him to be around and NOT have that dreadful 'terminal liver disease of the liver'. Since there may be a few vials of Adam's vaccine still missing, I hope we see Lionel working on that. Even if it leaves him with no disposable income and he has to live in the slums. 'Cause leaping and Cyb, you're making a scruffy MB sound like a fun option.

And an MB on the run, but living right in their midst, could give a nice ominous tone to some good Chloe storylines.

Lex and Clark: I've pretty much described my S4 spec for them upthread a bit, regarding my take on the 'gloves coming off'. But also, I'm holding out hope that S4 is the year Clark begins to grow up. Both of the boys are finding themselves a bit more isolated lately, with Pete in Wichita, the MB in jail, etc., so I'm looking for a scenario where Clark and Lex have only each other to rely on, even if they are sometimes suspicious of each other. But Clark needs more maturity for that, so I'm anticipating that we'll see that happen this year.

Lana: stays in Paris. During sweeps weeks, Clark will get a postcard from her. He'll read it (lips moving, of course), then Lex will take it from him and burn it. It'll be a thing they have.

I forgot about his liver disease of the liver. How's he going to overcome it? Maybe he'll get a transplant to temporarily extend his life while he works on a more permanent solution. Maybe he'll steal Morgan Edge's.