The TNG thread seems to have disappeared so I'll post this here. I just finished watching the 1st season of TNG last night and I'd never noticed before how they shoved the Dr. Crusher/Picard 'ship down our throats back then. Whenever Beverly was on the bridge she was practically fawning over Picard, and in "We'll Always Have Paris" she's adamant with Troi about not wanting to discuss how she feels that she can't compete with Picard's old flame. Ick. I'm so glad they handled this with more maturity and dignity in the last 2 seasons of the series. All she was missing was the soft focus lighting that Kirk's ABotW always had.

ETA

Thanks nqllisi.

All the other Trek threads got moved to the Sci Fi area months and months ago.TNG among them.

I thought the Harbinger "encounter" was the most mature way sex stuff has been handled on ENT so far. Mature, witty, banter; a mention of Sim (so it didn't seem like it was coming out of left field); all in all, a good job by the writers.

I thought the "morning after the night before" conversation was hilarious. Trip's expression when he said "You don't have to thank me" - priceless. And I never thought I would say this, but - T'Pol? You rock, girlfriend! Her calm, cool demeanour was absolutely perfect.

And I would really, really love it if that was what it was all about - Vulcan curiousity. It would be a good way to stand some human ideas on their heads, and that is always a good thing.

Also, if she had said something along the lines of "And I really can't understand what all the fuss is about..." I think that would have been the perfect capper. But you can't have everything.

Could we at least have SOMEHOW worked in a five second explanation that unlike Vulcan males, Vulcan females can do it whenever they damn well feel like it. Or something.

I'm pretty sure that we've never gotten an official "Vulcan Males Can Do It (Only If It's Pon Farr Time)" ruling. They just need to do it during that time.

I hope this is the right thread to respond to this...

I was hoping that T'Pol could treat Trip with a little more compassion. He just awkwardly admitted that he had feelings for her. And to brush it off as an experiment is kind of...for lack of a better word, mean to him. Because, after all that was shown this episode (her watching them sparring, her massaging Cole a little too hard) it seems VERY unlikely that it was just an experiment. And knowing that she kissed Sim. Give Trip the benefit of the doubt that he could handle it.

Amen! And with that last look over her cup, you just know that the "neuropressure sessions" will now include those "more difficult positions" she mentioned previously.

No, seriously, I really liked how she was in control of the situation. Even though she had no previous experience (so she said) with human sexuality, she didn't give up one ounce of her pride and dignity after pouncing on Trip.

It wasn't until an hour after the episode ended that I realized she planned to seduce him what with the nakedness under the robe and all. I concur, Pippin: You go, T'Pol! Who'd have known that T'Pol was a playa?

toast, I don't think Trip was too hurt. I think he can see through her and realize that she's just covering.

I agree, Skye, he knew she was just covering, especially since he was such a doofus to talk about it in a crowded mess hall. (Uh, duh, Trip!) And to keep him guessing, that's always a nice touch.

But why does she have to cover? Vulcans suppress their emotions, but they do have them. After all their node sessions, and especially after the Conversation (handled superbly by the writers and actors), I was kind of hoping that she would intimate that they would discuss it later. Her body language, though, spoke volumes. And I think Trip read that. Too bad she couldn't find a way to voice it. That's my nit-pick.

Edited because if I spelled suppress wrong, I'd never hear the end of it.

I agree with Skye. Though I found the scenes between Trip and T'Pol somewhat subtile, there was nothing ambiguous about them.

The whole "experiment" explanation provides both with plausible deniability. It has already been established that the crew is gossiping about Trip and T'Pol. If/when the experiment explanation leaks out, it seems to me a plausible reaction on the part of the crew would be"That's just the sort of thing a Vulcan would do."

And Trip, eventually, did see through it. Speaking as a guy (with all the weaknesses and urges of my gender), I knew EXACTLY what he meant when Trip suggested they could still do their neuropressure sessions.

Judging by the whole "I'm a Vulcan and I can't say anything so I'll just raise an eyebrow and let that speak volumes" response, T'Pol was hip to the whole thing as well. And I loved the placement of the mug ... perhaps to hide the Vulcan version of a knowing smile?

Welcome, lowkey!!


I thought the EXACT same thing. Well, I'm not a guy, but I have 7 brothers. He caught on to her cover technique and started to speak the same "language".


Hee!

Well, T'Pol could also say she was just trying to help Trip relieve some stress. She has no emotional attachment to sex, so that's logical, if it must be explained when it leaks out. Especially since conducting an experiment during a critical mission seems a bit...illogical.

What bothered me the most is that she saw the need to find a cover or an excuse. Why? They are both adults. Why not just say that they'll discuss it at the next neural node session. Yes, Trip caught on, but I think the excuse was unnecessary. Why couldn't she explain that she did not place the same emotional meaning to sex as a human would. And finally, suppressing emotions does not mean she does not have them, which Trip knows. It would have been a whole nicer (to Trip) if she had told the truth. And maybe she will, at the next node session.

And that's my point--we don't something as silly as the excuse/cover that it was an experiment. Except that it was a damn funny scene--Trinneer and Blalock did an excellent job. So I'll take it at that--sometimes you don't need the actual words--underlying meaning and body language can do the same thing.

(I am doing a poor job at explaining myself--but I've been feeling crappy all week and the drugs don't help.)

An interesting article about Star Trek and sex. It spends a lot of time on TOS, but eventually moves on through the series. Sadly, it's apparently pretty old as it only gets up to Voyager's "Fair Haven", and so doesn't mention Enterprise at all.

I'm not sure I totally agree with everything the author says, but it's certainly a compelling read.

Yeah, I kind of wondered why they suddenly linked to it on Trektoday. There were a few things I disagreed with, but it did make me think that Enterprise has taken a slightly different view of sex than all the previous series. Well, once they got away from trying to have Trip have a fling with each new alien female anyway. I found that rather annoying, and whether you're a Trip/T'Pol shipper or not, you have to be grateful that their relationship has stopped that from happenning.

Reading Keckler's TNG recap of Sub Rosa, I remember how creepy TNG's portrayal of sex was. They tended to have this forced portrayal that everyone should be really open about sex like on that creepy planet where Wesley was nearly executed for destroying some plants. Everyone acted like Worf was being overly stuffy and prudish. On Enterprise they seem to take a much more realistic view. In Two Days and Two Nights, when Hoshi had a one night stand, it was awkward, and she was kind of embarassed about it. I'm not saying she regretted it, but she certainly wasn't rushing to tell someone about it like Crusher did to Troi (and by the way, ew). And how much could you feel the awkwardness in the room when Trip and T'Pol had their morning after conversation? I'm just saying -- much more realistic.

Thanks, Cleo, for the link! Interesting reading indeed.