I'm not convinced that even the utter fabulousness of DeForest Kelly could overcome the gargantuan suckitude of Merritt Butrick and his hair, but YMMV.

Aww, I always love lis's unending hatred for Merrit Butrick and his hair. It's one of the constants of the universe.


Yeah, I can see the flaw of Nemesis, and it bothers me, but it doesn't make my eyes bleed like Insurrection. The trying to be funny and failing miserably, the faux moral conflict. I can't stand it. Most TNG cast movies have some moments that make me like them, but I can't think of anything in Insurrection that saves it for me.

I watched Insurrection last night with some friends...wow. I had forgotten how utterly stupid, plodding, dull, boring, unfunny, painfully unfunny, and just plain bad it was. Picard dancing, Data, Troi making a fucking stupid comment to the woefully underused Crusher about boobs and then Data fucking stupidly repeating the same goddamn line to Worf, Worf being played as a one-dimensional Klingon caricature (especially considering how he was written on DS9), all but ignoring Deep Space Nine (Jadzia who?), Troi and Riker, technobabble on top of fucking technobabble...oh, fuck all, that movie made me want to punch it in the throat.

Hee! From Best to Worst:

1. Khaaan!!!
2. Undiscovered Country (though 2 and 6 might as well be tied for best...it all depends on which one I Must! Watch! Now!)
3. Voyage Home
4. Final Frontier
5. Search for Spock
6. Motion Picture
7. Generations
8. First Contact (Borg Queenie almost ruins an otherwise excellent film)
9. & 10. Insurrection and Nemesis

I place Insurrection and Nemesis last because even though I saw them both in the theater, I can't for the life of me remember a damn thing about them. Except that Data annoyed. For the love of all that's good and holy, those are the only two films in the franchise that made me tired of one of the main characters (Troi doesn't count because I never liked her anyway). And that, in my book, is just unforgiveable. But I wish I could really remember what I was not forgiving. Damn forgettable.

And I am so not ashamed to admit that I LOVE Final Frontier. It sucks but I don't care. I love the focus on Kirk-Spock-McCoy (the whole "I lost a brother" exchange at the end makes me weep uncontrollably). And I have an unhealthy affinity for one David Warner. It's not a good movie by any stretch of the imagination, but I would watch it over any of the TNG films any day. It makes me laugh and cry, so I forgive its many transgressions against common sense.

The TNG films never really connected with me. I like TNG episodes, but I feel the cast doesn't have the awesome chemistry TOS characters had to pull off a feature film. I would go to a movie with Patrick Stewart reading the damn phone book, but he can't make up for the others. They are each good on their own, but I don't think they have the priceless and meaningful interactions with each other the TOS cast had. There are enough moments between them to fill up an hour episode, but a 2-2.5 hour movie? Don't think so. The episodes worked because they essentially were about the villain/technology-of-the-week or a tour-de-force by one actor (i.e. Inner Light, Datalore, Frame of Mind, Remember Me, etc.) and didn't rely on a Kirk-Spock-McCoy type camaraderie.

Just saw Final Frontier. Everything I've heard is true. And I have one thing to add that I haven't seen anything about: Kirk's big scene at the end about losing a brother seems to be about Spock, since he says he got him back. Apparently Shatner forgot that Kirk's brother actually did die in a TOS episode (pretty pointlessly, too).

It's official: I hate "The Voyage Home." I and two friends are working through the Trek movies (we are dreading "Nemesis" already) and...well, we declared TVH a dated, why-don't-you-hit-me-with-a-whale-shaped-anvil?, jokey fluffy Tribble of a film. After the third or fifteenth slur against the Klingons, I began to seriously doubt Trek's own stated love of difference--and hey, if the Klingons are such warriors, why in the universe would they fly around in warships that are in such disrepair?

This movie has plot holes and internal inconsistencies large enough for a ship to fly through, and damn, Kirk's "love" interest...boring. I think I may hate her the way lis hates Merritt Buttrick's hair. I loved some of the humor--but I think there was a bit too much of it.

Well, she is perhaps the first woman to give Kirk the brush off. The look on his face ("You'll call me?? Me, the great Kirk?") is priceless.

A whole lot of The Voyage Home (a.k.a. Whale You Were Sleeping) clearly doesn't hold up to repeated viewing, but it will always be at or near the top of my ST favorite-movie list just because of how I and all my friends reacted to it at the time it was released -- namely, after the theater erupted in cheers and applause when the end credits began, we went out believing we'd seen the Best Movie Ever.

It was years before we began to stop asking each other if it wasn't time for another colorful metaphor, or saying "one damned minute, Admiral," or accusing each other of spiking drinks with LDS, or complaining "after I've come millions of miles," etc.

To me, all that counts for more than the regrettable dramatic hackery which accompanied it.

Hmmm. Come to think of it, I wouldn't put Nemesis at or near the bottom of my list. It had a number of items of interest. I loved Tom Hardy's voice and weirdness. Hot damn, I think I need to watch it again.

I vote for Insurrection as the worst, it just pisses me off. At least when the tv show got preachy, it was morally sound and made sense in the context of the rest of Trek.

Why would Picard help a bunch of squatters with superpowers who wanted to hog the fountain of youth and refused to help with its defense? They tried to shove "forced relocation is bad" down the audience's throat, but then muddled it when it turned out to be a civil war. Like so many others, I wanted to see the galactic Amish die, die, die.

ESPECIALLY Anij. God, was she smug, or what? Oh, and that stupid moppet and his CGI'd gerbil should have gotten smashed by the rocks or something else.

From best to worst

1. Wrath of Khan
2. First Contact
3. Undiscovered Country
4. Search for Spock
5. Generations
6. Nemesis
7. Voyage Home
8. TMP
9. Final Frontier
10. Insurrection

BTW, Showtime has been running Insurrection almost non-stop...

I wasn't feeling particularly well yesterday and the thought of an Insurrection marathon brings back that nausea.

Going back to earlier comments about the lack of 'change' in the TNG movies:

On DS9, one of the effects of the impact of the Dominion War was the youthening of Starfleet. A whole generation of officers were wiped out and that had consequences for younger officers and even cadets. Nog, who was halfway through his Academy training at the onset of war, received his commission two years ealier than he expected. At war's end, he was promoted to Chief O'Brien's old job. Ezri Dax was a simillar case. I know Sisko's pulling strings was why she finished her residency early but the urgency of wartime probably made Starfleet medical more receptive to promoting her early.

Veterans like Picard and his senior staff should have been confronted with a larger number of younger and younger officers advancing faster and earlier. We should have seen a new Chief of Security from First Contact onwards and have them be clearly someone whogot the job a good five years too early (along with Worf grumbling at having been replaced by a relative child). We should have had dialogue acknowledgeing that most of the characters' friends and contemporaries in the service were dead before their time. I remember the episode where Deanna did her Bridge Officer's test. She began the episode having returned from an Academy reunion. How many of her classmates are still alive?

The TNG movies should have taken a cue from DS9 and really planned the background for a post-series TNG world complete with recurring secondary characters and a clear idea of how things like the Dominon War and Voyager's return would impact the Federation Flag ship. We should have seen Picard fighting with Starfleet Command to keep his command crew together. I'm sure that offcers like Data, Riker, Crusher, Troi and Laforge would find themelves in demand for high-ranking positions in the fleet. That way, whatever story they used for a movie, there would have been a clear, resonant context for the characters to operate in.

I must admit my full and unabashed love for "The Voyage Home" - it was the first Trek film I saw on the big screen, and probably the one thing that fully cemented my love of the show and its universe (until Bermaga killed it, but I digress).

The sheer enthusiasm and sense of fun from the cast, I think, is one of the things that keeps me enthusiastic about this. Nimoy's deft direction and sly scripting are a big help, plus the true ensemble feel from the cast that just makes you want to cheer them on.

The two preceding entries in the 'Spock trilogy' are also big favourites of mine, along with Undiscovered Country and First Contact. The rest have not aged well to my mind, and I don't think I've seem many of them more than twice.

Here's hoping Abrams has actually done well with his re-casting approach; I'm (very) cautiously optimistic...

I'm a little less cautiously optimistic after reading this interview with Zoe Saldana:

That, my friend, is a lot of hate.

I have a lot of affection for TVH. It's cheesetastic, but it was meant to be funny and I think a lot of the humor holds up. Honestly, if the line "Humpbacked people?!" doesn't make you chuckle, well, I think you might be dead inside.

Best to Worst:

1. Khan
2. The Voyage Home
Tied at 3. First Contact, The Undiscovered Country
5. Generations
6. The Search for Spock
7. The Motion Picture
8. The Final Frontier
9. Insurrection
10. Nemesis

Nemesis I actually find offensively bad. Final Frontier, Motion Picture and Insurrection were more boring and annoying, but Nemesis offends me. The crew only vaguely resemble the crew of the Enterprise I grew up watching, the villian is pretty ridiculous, and I hate .... hate the Remans. I want the Remans stricken from canon, the prosthetics burned, buried and the earth salted above them. The Romulans were toasted as an interesting race once the Remans came along.

I'm in absolute agreement with you, Suspect. The Remans were a bad "fanwankery" of a concept and should have never seen the cameras. At first, I liked the concept of rebellious mine workers and I could have handled a group of pale, blond, albino Romulans. However, making the Remans look like Nosferatu creatures with telepathic abilities was really taking the mutant idea way too far.

Don't even get me started on the ridiculousness of Shinzon (being a clone who looks nothing like Picard, or the whole needing Picard's blood to live stupidity).

I know! I think it approximates my hatred of Anij the Useless. The moment her smug ass shows up on the screen, I begin seething and wishing a Klingon would appear and disembowel her or a stray photon torpedo would detonate. Hell, I think I hate all the Baku. They're like Trek's version of fucking Ewoks.

My ranking of the Trek films is probably this:

The Great
1. Wrath of Khan--OF COURSE.
2. The Undiscovered Country
3. The Search for Spock (sorry, lis!)

The OK
4. The Motion(less) Picture: I love the Long Five Minute Flyby of the Enterprise
5. First Contact: the first fifteen or so minutes make this movie and Alfre Woodard is a good actress who made the most of a thankless role. I hated the introduction of the Borg Queen, but I loved Alice Krige's portrayal.
6. The Voyage Home: As I noted before, I'm not that crazy about this movie, but it has a lot of nice character moments.

The Bad
7. The Final Frontier

The Fucking Abhorrent Abominations unto All that is Holy
8. Generations
9. Insurrection
10. Nemesis
For the most part, I loathe the TNG movies. They're little more than extended television episodes with better special effects. And there isn't a bloody thing I like about Nemesucks. I don't even like the so-called "battle" between the Ent-E and Shitzon's stupid fucking ship. Hell, if Shit-zu had even destroyed the E, I don't think I would have cared. I might even have been a little happy.

I'm going to have to give in and try to watch Insurrection in its entirety again, because apart from the opening musical number, some remark about boobs, and Foldy Skin Guy...I actually don't remember a goddamned significant thing about this movie.

Okay, there was a remark someone made a while back (in this thread, I think) that's stuck with me:


Thus, my priority list goes something like

1. Khan
2. The Undiscovered Country
3. First Contact (I'm sorry, but damn if BSC Picard didn't save this movie)
4. The Voyage Home
5. The Reaction Shot ("Torrrrpeeeeedooooooooo haaaWAAAAAYYYYYYY!"
6. Generations
7. The Search For Spock

and then it gets crazy as I try to figure out which of the remaining three films pisses me off more. Since I don't remember Insurrection, I suppose it goes

8. Insurrection
9. Nemesis
10. The Final Frontier

I just watched Insurrection, and I'm amazed that among its many flaws, this one doesn't come up that much: in a story where people's motivations made sense, the Ba'Ku would be the bad guys! They're lucky enough to find a planet, in someone else's territory mind you, that has previously unknown youth restoring and time manipulating properties, and declare that they're going to take over the joint and not allow anyone else to share their little fountain of youth. Then some of their number start to think maybe their own culture isn't the greatest one around and the Ba'Ku should maybe spread the wealth a little, and their response is basically "Well then, you can go fuck off and die. Have fun when your bodies start falling apart, suckers."

Yes but the Ba'Ku are poor and live with nature so of course they are the good guys.
There are a lot of problems with this movie. Trying to make us care about a new race and bad guys. Bad guys that aren't really evil or even powerful. The plot of the crew members growing younger and hornier. The baffling (even by Trek standards) logic of how the Enterprise destroyed the Son'a ship. The fact that I had to look up this movie on wikipedia to remember why I disliked it.

I finally saw Nemesis. I can't rank it as the worst Trek movie ever (you gotta be pretty bad to beat Final Frontier) but it was down there. It reminded in a lot of Generations with it's clunky plot and choppy pacing. Even the basic structure is the same: gathering for an event in main characters life bringing lots of levity (promotiom/marriage), crisis erupts (space station attacked/Romulan coup), crisis changes to something much more dangerous (Ribbon threatening a planet/Romulans after Earth), crew save the day with a high price (Ent-D/Data) leaving them somber but hopeful as they look forward to the furture.

Maybe I missed some bits of dialogue, but what I didn't understand/hated:

Why was Worf back in Starfleet? As in his same old tactical officer job on the Enterprise no less? I assume they weren't ignoring the whole of DS9 since the Dominion War was mentioned.

B4 was a terrible idea, but if they inisted of doing it shouldn't someone have mentioned Lore? No one should have been so flip about turing on another Soong android. And once they realized it was a "developing" prototype, a shot out to Lal would have been nice.

What was the point of Shinzon and the Reman mind raping Troi? I didn't seem to have any benefit to his plan. It was obviously a contrivance so Troi could target the ship later but couldn't they have come up with SOME explanation for the intial incident. Also, again a character has an experience almost identical to something that happened in their past ("Violations") and it doesn't get a mention.

I think the female Romulan captain was supposed to be some noble character for not wanting Earth totally wiped out. Perhaps that might have sold better if they didn't have her acting like a tart trying to bone the new Praetor.

Picard beams over to Romulan ship. Data beams Picard away from the Romulan ship (using the magical mini transporter???). Why then did Data have to pull a Superman to get to the ship?

Picard being in shock when Shinzon dies was out of character. This man's been assimilated, lived two lifetimes, been torturted by Cardassians, seen his future, relived his past and even died...at which point he watched his younger self almost die.

Oh well, the escape in the Scorpion was cool, there were finally some new Romulan ships, the battle sequences were passable and at least Troi and Riker got together in the end. Over all a disappointing effort, especially for the final TNG/DS9/VOY era adventure.

Because he's a mustache-twirling bad guy who does bad things because he's a bad guy.



Or better yet, why not use the transporters in the shuttle to just beam Picard back?

I really have a problem with how the TNG films didn't bring any villains from the series. I know Lore was dismantled, and Data took his emotion chip, but they could have name checked him at some point. The brought the Borg to the big screen in the finest TNG movie, and didn't realize why that one caught on.

Imagine a Nemesis with Sela in it, to further the hackneyed mirrors in the film. Or perhaps B4 was Lore, reconstructed, minus his emotion chip.

Or maybe an Insurrection that... uh...

You know, Nemesis was only worse because they had things they could have used. I guess.

MFD, I think they had hoped for Sela in Nemesis, but it didn't work out. As for Lore, there's no reason they couldn't at least have had the line, "Are we sure it isn't Lore?" when they discovered B-4 (originally B-9, but that seems to have been complicated for us to be able to grasp), but they just didn't. Maybe it's another example of having no backstory "so as not to alienate non-Trekkies" or whatever. Never mind that the second, third, fourth, and even fifth (sort of) movies were one big story.

I would argue that there's a good film screaming to get out of Nemesis. If only they had cut out the following -

1. the need for Shinzon to be a clone of Picard, a Machiavellian Romulan who wants revenge for getting pulled into the Dominion War would be more interesting and more respectful to continuity
2. no B-4, it was kissing Brent Spiner's proverbially shiny metal ass and it sucked hard
3. a little bit more on the relationship between Romulus and Remus
4. underscoring just what the stakes are, that is why peace is just so important between the Federation and the Romulans, who can be just as bad as each other when it comes to scheming politicians

And yes, a Sela cameo would have been a groovy little bit of continuity, although I think that Commander Donatra aka Dina Meyer had some potential.

About Insurrection, I really feel this was damaged by trying to be a feature film rather than a tv movie. I can imagine it working on Voyager in the sense that you can picture them accidentally finding this planet on their travels, making friends with the natives - Neelix sharing culinary tips, Janeway getting all misty over the culture and the art and stuff, Chakotay getting all anthropological, the Doctor showing off at the drop of his holographic hat, Harry making goo-goo eyes with one of the natives, Seven and B'Elanna agreeing that they hate the place because its so 'primitive', Seven accidentally discovering some evidence of a conspiracy, Janeway sticking her nose in, the Maquis crew in-particular getting emotional and B'Elanna raring for a fight with the P'Taq's, Tom treating it like a Captain Proton adventure, Tuvok being logical about the situation and voila, we have another tv Trek morality tale. The TNG guys really try, F. Murray Abraham tries really hard (I gather somewhat controversially, I don't have a problem with Donna Murphy, but that's another matter) but it just isn't the right medium for this story.

Yes. Yes. A thousand times Yes!

Even more Yes!

Also, they needed to leave out all the Nosferatu Remans. That was just stupid.

Finally saw Nemesis today on TV. Not the absolute worst, but doesn't scream greatness, and doesn't stand up to any scrutiny. Nice effects shots though. I mostly turned my brain off when watching.

I really disliked the Remans in Nemisis. The Romulans were Romans. They were warlike, ruled by a Senate, and had a bird on their ships. But the Remans were just pushing the analogy too far. To me it's the difference between the Borg being a translation of whatever language they speak or actually being called the Borg. One makes sense the other if really unlikley and stupid.

Okay, I just watched Nemesis, and maybe this is just because I haven't spent my whole life with these characters (even though TNG started when I was three and of course I was aware of the show all that time) but I don't think it was that bad. Of course it had some cringe-inducing parts; I can't remember if the planet Remus was ever mentioned before but it's an incredibly stupid and nonsensical idea unless the ancient Romans somehow picked up the myth through alien visits or something. And Data's death wasn't nearly as poignant as Spock's or even Kirk's: no last conversation, no afirmation of his character arc, just a big explosion.

However, I was able to overlook that and enjoy it as a fun action film, like Undiscovered Country and First Contact. And while his death may have sucked, Data's arc of learning to be human did feel fulfilled; he acts more human with zero mention of the emotion chip, and the scene where he counsels Picard on humanity was a great role reversal which illustrated just how far he's come.

I would have been far more accepting of Data's death if B-4, a ridiculous plot device, wasn't rammed onto the scene. If they had to make a way for Brent Spiner to continue with the franchise, there is always Lore floating around somewhere. Insuckretion is still a far worse movie, though it drives me nuts that the Remans are sensitive to light so the crew helpfully dims the lights when they board. Because in the case of emergency, darkening the ship is obviously the way to go.

I'd have to go with hate on NEMESIS, but there were things I liked about it. Special FX and long harsh space battle, check. Having to sit through a mandatory new character who eclipsed most of the crew in the form of Shinzon(but at least a good one thanks to Tom Hardy), check. Nice soundtrack, check. Picard confronting his own mortality on a personal level in(at the time, now definitely) TNG's final swan song, checkcheckcheck. Trouble is they visited that last in the show's finale and two of the movies that preceded NEMESIS. It's not that Patrick Stewart didn't rock that as usual, but all fans were wishing for something bigger, like...ROMULANS. They were finally given uniforms that looked decent, but we got to see a part of their world for only 5 minutes, and almost nothing about their motives. (Sigh. I liked the old TNG Warbirds just fine, not the frail new ones.) What we did get was a side of Donatra which stems from Bermaga's inability to grow up. For one of Trek's longest villains. Anyway, I can enjoy Picard being at the center. But not Data hogging all the screen time. Troi got to be her old self...such progress for women characters in ST after 30+ years, with her and Donatra. The Romulans got shunted off to the side in favor of a new race intended to attract the LOTR crowd. Berman's gotten himself involved with the new movie so I'm kind of resigned to women and Romulans never getting their due again, and gay characters never at all. The franchise needs to die.

INSURRECTION was a worthless flop. It had nothing original or meaningful.

When I saw GENERATIONS I was indignant that the Enterprise-D could go down so easily without the use of her shields against a ship that was 3 times as old as she was and about 10 times smaller and weaker. Even people who've never watched ST in their lives can't be expected to believe that. The time spent including TOS cast in their era was a bust. The other cast did perform wonderfully with their material, even the ones who were given next to nothing, and the score was beautiful. I liked the updated bridge.

I think FIRST CONTACT was all kinds of awesome...the buildup and events with the Phoenix felt like something we all kind of hope would someday happen in discovering we're not alone, and thanks to Jonathan Frakes' eye those scenes carried that feeling well. Alfre Woodard also made me grin a lot. Luckily, the Borg were still a little-used and scary threat at the time FC came out. Ultimately some of the crew needed more screentime than others, but this was the best movie of them all.

AresCupid writes:


For good or ill, Rick Berman has absolutely nothing to do with the new movie. In fact, outside of Leonard Nimoy, John Eaves, and, IIRC, a smattering of other people in small positions, nobody working on the movie has ever been involved with making Trek before. It may still be awful, but it won't be because of tired old blood.

My people! :D

Okay I'm surprised after 63 pages no one mentioned this:

In TUC, Uhura is covered with books struggling to speak basic Klingon.
In TFF: A KLINGON Tactical officer is speaking FLUENT Federationeeze to Kirk.

Now I mean, I know it's different, Kirk is in a hurry, maybe he doesn't have a chance to recognize that 'hey they're using a UT..." but still, come on. That really makes Uhura look bad.

Nemesis is so bad - I can barely tell you what happens and I usually remember everything. Like all I can remember is that Data went click boom and then SVU of WTF (soo funny). And the wedding. I can't even remember all the fuzzy details. Insurrection... not really a favourite.. First Contact.. good.. but some really eh points.

But I have to say as I can't remember Nemesis.. I can't even WATCH TMP. (or ST: Reaction Shot lol). I keep falling asleep. I keep asking; Why are they in pyjamas? Where are the red shirts? And why - if they all know and like their new Captain so fricken excited that Captain Reverend Camden is getting replaced?

So yeah, TMP for the fact it makes me tired, is the worst one.

*small voice* and I kind of liked TFF....

sienna gold writes:


I think Meyer was trying to play up a sense of the Klingons' separation from Federation culture, but he did so with a graceful fist of ham (Bones protesting at Gorkon's deathbed that he wasn't familiar with Klingon physiology is another such example. The hell?).



TMP has a staggering number of script problems. There are a lot of weird structural choices that don't really pay off; the first time we see Kirk in ten years, and he's busting another character down in rank-a character we've only just met and have no reason to dislike-so he can get the Enterprise back? I can appreciate the idea of an arc about Kirk going insane at a desk job and being so hungry to get back to space that he's willing to screw people over to do it, but why should it even be the first order of business for a Trek film?

Similarly, the drydock sequence is bizarre. It comes in for a lot of criticism, but I like the sequence for itself; the scoring and cinematography are stunning, it gives the Enterprise a powerful sense of weight and visual complexity, and the reflected shot of Kirk staring at the E with an utterly mournful and yearning look on his face is brilliant.

My problem is where it's placed in the narrative. It comes right on the heels of a scene that goes something like this:

Kirk: Scotty, there's an unknown entity headed directly for Earth. We need the Enterprise ready in eighteen hours.

Scotty: Sir, there is no possible way I can get the ship ready in less than two days!

Kirk: Scotty, this is so important that I was able to talk Starfleet into giving the Enterprise back to me. I need you to do this for me.

Scotty: Well, all right, I'll do it for you.

...and then we fly around the ship for several minutes!

And the ending. Granted, after twelve-and-a-half hours of looking at viewscreens, any ending is a tonic, but why is everybody in the crew so pleased with V'ger? Didn't this thing eat a Federation science outpost and the innocent staff inside, to say nothing of creating a galactic incident by killing a passel of Klingons? Wouldn't you hate to be the Federation envoy who had to explan the V'ger affair to the Klingons?

"So you're saying that an alien intelligence merged with an Earth probe, attacked our fleet on the edge of the Neutral Zone, suddenly started attacking facilities in your space, was somehow dissuaded from destroying Earth, and disappeared to parts unknown?"

"Yes, but-"

"So this massively powerful alien intelligence, which destroyed our ships and which, conveniently, only you were able to contact but which you apparently cannot control, could, for all you know, start heading back and wipe us all out if it felt like it?"

"Yes, but we believe it's gained an understanding of the nobler ideals of the Federation and evolved into a-"

"The problem is, even if I believe you, there's still no good reason not to have you ground into targ chow."

So I finally saw Nemesis; just a few thoughts:

1) Like some of you mentioned, it was really unnecessary to have the main villain be a clone of Capt. Picard. Although I did like the actor.

2) I thought it was cool that they found a way to make Troi's powers useful in combat; but then I thought, "Too bad they had to (mind)rape her first."

3) I hope that Brent Spiner never has to wear that awful Data makeup ever again. It hasn't aged well.

I recently bought the boxed set of the Original Cast Films.I tried to look at The Motionless Picture objectively, as a piece of history. After all, it was an historic event, bringing the cast back together after 10 years, mainly due to fan loyalty.But, damm, that is a boring,ponderous film.The uniforms are horrible(although Decker's Unit is nice), the plot? is non-existent, and everyone just looks uncomfortable.
On the other hand, I never tire of watching Wrath of Khan. It's just a hell of a ride.It also takes me back to 1983, when I attended a ST con, and Walter Koenig was the guest, and Search For Spock was about to be released. Good Times.
Final Frontier, while it has its problems,wasn't a total failure.Some of the "jokes":"I know this ship like the back of my hand">CRUNCH< were awful, but Shatner didn't do a bad job directing.And any film that gives me DeForest Kelley in jeans and a plaid shirt, sippin' whiskey and saying"I liked him better when he was dead", can't be all bad.

Now that we have a new film, I thought it was time to update my rankings.
Khan still holds the top spot and Shinzon is still mucking around at the bottom.

1. The Wrath of Khan
2. Star Trek
3. The Undiscovered Country
4. First Contact
5. The Voyage Home
6. Generations
7. The Search For Spock
8. The Motion Picture
9. Insurrection
10. The Final Frontier
11. Nemesis

I saw Nemesis again last night, and I have to say, Tom Hardy's hotness really makes up for a lot. :) He is an excellent actor--I have seen him in other films like Rock 'n Rolla.

Here's my list. I don't have Frontier rated as low as some of you, only because they really go the characters and the relationships right in that movie (beyond Row, row, row your boat). They were hamstrung by the writers strike and had major budget cuts. So, it gets a pass in my book...




Insurrection was a boring two hour TV episode. It had no business being the follow up to First Contact. Nemesis and Frontier are about even in my book. I remember how upset I was with the follow up to Data's death. Just a quick drink with two people saying something about him. Hell, Tasha Yar got 10 freeking minutes on the TV show and Data gets a 3 minute goodbye scene? I think it would have been an incredible call back if he did the same thing that Tasha did for his crew. Seeing how much that Tasha hologram meant to him, it would make sense that he would decide to make something like that up in case he was killed.

Finally...Star Trek is number one for me. Wrath of Khan is AWESOME, but Star Trek is the movie I have been waiting for since I was a kid. Big budget, big story, non stop fun, that puts Trek on the map in a way that NO other Trek film has before it.

One thing that bugged me about Nemesis is that somehow the audience (Trek and non-Trek) is expected to believe that a subsurvient race like the Remans were able to build an advanced ship with a secret weapon and defeat any ship in the Federation and Romulan fleet without anyone knowing about it at all. It might have been a tad more believeable if the ship had been built by the Romulans themselves and that it was taken over by Shinzon and his Reman cronies when they overthrew the Romulan government. I guess we're lucky that TPTB remembered the Romulans at all. Instead of introducing the Remans, it could have easily been Shinzon being helped by disgruntled Romulans instead. And if the mental assault of Troi had to take place, again it would have been just as easy having a Romulan do the deed. Since Romulans and Vulcans are closely related, it's not out of the realm of possibility of having telepathy among specially trained Romulans, but that could be better discussed in another thread.

Points taken, but one thing to recall is that Shinzon was not a Romulan (or Reman), so for the mental assault (again, like you said, if it happened at all) he needed "help," hence the Reman, as it's unlikely any Romulan telepath would have been too eager to help him.

Is it possible to add a button for the latest movie? I don't suppose many people would actually vote for it (I wasn't as taken by it as others, but it certainly wasn't the worst) and it would somewhat skew the results (since you could only vote for it for the last few months). I've already voted anyway, but it offends my sense of completeness (which I'm sure will concern everyone!).

I love it! Apparently Nemesis was so bad (and the criticism of it so overwhelming) that it drove one of the lead actors to drink and drugs!
ETA the link to the full article

Hell, Nemesis was so bad, it drove me to drink and drugs!

Not really. It just drove me to epic rants usually reserved for other of life's irritations. And Hardy? Seriously sounds just a tad whackadoodle. He admitted as much that he fairly craves "adulation" and has a self-destructive streak a light-year wide, so I have to call "bullshit" on him blaming Nemesis for his crackwhoredom. He'd likely have hit the pipe even if Nemesis had been a smash.