[fanwank]Well, if you try to imagine the timelines between the Batman series and JL(U) while mixing in the flashback scenes from Return of the Joker and including a little bit of Mystery of the Batwoman into it- Barbara is probably still away at college and only being Batgirl when she's on vacation from school. That's probably why she's not showing up.[/fanwank]

And I imagine Tim, if the Titans don't exist in this universe, is sitting in Wayne Manor playing checkers and eating cookies with Alfred for all eternity. I do really want to see Nightwing, though- just to screw with Batman's cool.

Levitz was right on with this one. I don't always agree with what he's done at DC but he was a former writer and editor until he became prez and he loves those characters. The Golden Age Green Lantern and Atom and Black Canary and Wildcat - who I presume were the original models for "the Justice Guild" deserve better than to be outdated old fogeys. The fact that we've seen the real Black Canary and Wildcat in the background of JLU along with so many other comic JSAers like Sand, Atom Smasher, Stars and S.T.R.I.P.E, and Obsidian(!), who is the son of the Golden Age Green Lantern, gives me hope we'll have a JSA-esque episode in the future. Though I do think an animated series set in the 1940s with the original JSA could work because it would make seperating the JSA from the JLA easy for non-comic readers.

As for Starman (Jack Knight) as I understand he's not used without James Robinson's permission and even in the comics his story is over. Of course there was that ABC Starman series in development and WB may still be working on that. Prince Gavyn though would not have been my choice for a JLU Starman. DC still own the original (Jack's father,Ted Knight) and the current holder of the title, Stargirl, was seen in Initiation along with the robot S.T.R.I.P.E. She's also a character whose creator (Geoff Johns) co-owns rights to her and yet the JLU people obviously got permission to use her (hopefully in a Captain Marvel team-up in the future).

I really hope Mr.Timm, Mr.McDuffie and co. start branching out and extends this version of the DC animated-verse as long as possible. The next generation of WB/DC show like The Batman are just not to my taste. I know JL almost got cancelled before they added the Unlimited part and CN seems to have a limit on how many episodes of a show they'll do. I'm still hoping we see Guy Gardner and Hal Jordan make an appearance in a GLCorps show and a coda to B:TAS (perhaps another direct-to-video movie) with Cassandra Cain becoming Batgirl and Barbara Gordon becoming Oracle (without being shot by the Joker like in the comics).

How about Mikkal Tomas? There's nobody with blue skin on the team, right? Gavyn was a stiff in his run...the only interesting thing I remember was the time his own sister was macking on him, not knowing she was related. And I think this was before Luke & Leia was considered related.

As for returning heroes...I'm thinking Hawkman. It would prove that there's no such thing as lame heroes, only lame writing (hello, Aquaman). My idea would be along the lines of the "Golden Age" version...a human reincarnation of an Egyptian prince. I can see him in a misunderstanding with the JLU, as he smacks the shit out of them with his mace. As the higher-ups wonder if a Thanagarian stayed behind on Earth, they find that the wings aren't real. In the right hands, that could kick ass

We're talking current (and original) Carter Hall version right? I'm all for that. I was never a fan of the Thangarian Katar Hol (Shayera was always the stronger one in that relationship) and I'm glad when they re-booted Hawkman it was the golden age Hawkman idea they revised. That would be quite an idea. You can even have Dr.Fate know him in a past life (which is currently the case since the current Fate is the reincarnated Carter's formerly dead son). They could drop the baggage of Hawkgirl too (the human version and not the Thangarian one) and keep up with Hawkman's conservative politics, no-nonsense personality and hit first ask questions later strategy...and yet he's a good guy. It would introduce a more intriguing love triangle with GL/Hawkgirl than an Thangarian Hawkman would do because here would be a human (and a brilliant one) who derives his power from Thangarian tech and doesn't hold Thangarian sociey in contempt nor the things Shayera has done. As the current Identity Crisis comic shows Hawkman is not above erasing minds and changing personalities of another person to obtain the right results. He's someone who could understand Shayera better than John Stewart.

Hot damn, if we ever get a Gotham Girls style episode I'll die a happy man. You know, the thing the surprises me is that we've gotten so many superhero cameos this year, and yet we haven't really seen any good ol' fashioned villain team-ups. I mean, the League is made up of dozens upon dozens of members now. Don't the villains know to form their own "Leauge of Evil" or something? I'd much prefer that over robots that you kill with love.



It really saddens me that they're setting JLU up as the end of this continuity, because there are so many characters I'd love to see again. Even though JL/U hasn't reached the heights of the 90s Batman or Superman shows (although IMO, Starcrossed came pretty damn close), I still love following where these characters are going.

From yesterday's update at Comics Continuum, it seems like someone at JLU needs to out themselves as the Whedonverse geek.

For those wanting some details on the episode coming up in a couple of months where the JL ends up in the future, got this off of Comics Continuum:

"Batman Beyond and Static will both be guest-starring in "The Once and Future Thing, Pt. 2," the season finale of Justice League Unlimited.

Will Friedle is reprising his role of Batman for the episode."

.

No kidding, but, does anyone know if there is any corporate ties between whomever it is that makes Justice League and the ones making the Serenity movie? Mayb it's a bit of corporate integration?

Crapola. No JLU tonight....and no new episodes till November.

I know that it's been said a lot but: damn it! where is my Flash fix?!

Does this means the whole contribution of the Flash this season is the opening credits and the half second opening scene of Initiation (with no dialogue)??

I'm really hoping he may star one the remaining non-filler episodes...well a cameo with Impulse would be awesome but no Titan has shown on the JLU (and probably never).

Well, if you take a look at today's comic continuum news you'll see that Michael Rosenbaum hasn't completely vanished from the season.

One other interesting tidbit: Bonk is the Jokerz member that the Joker killed in ROTJ. Kind of makes you wonder how he and the rest of the ROTJ Jokerz are used. I've heard that V.A.s are paid the same regardless of lines, so that's a lot of dough if they are just throwaway characters

Thanks for the newsl!, I've seen that Batman Beyond movie (both versions).

The uncensored version of BB return of the Joker movie added dept and strenght to the message that the movie was intended for. It's kinda sad the censors had to make cuts for the "parents" that are afraid of talking to their children of the themes in the movie.

Anyway, I still do hope there is a shared center spot for the Flash in the remaining chapters. He can pretty much go *everywhere* with the speed force but it yet has to be seen on the JLA/JLU animated series. I mean, even Hawk Girl had lines and a longer exposure in the late Return episode for Jebus sake!

Also, might not be the place but...wasn't that Amazo/Lex Luthor just too HoYay?

- Lex: "I abused of his naivete...now he is not naive anymore".
- Amazo: "You lied to me! You used me!".

Cree-pee me.

Real quickly, I'm looking for desktop wallpaper that's nothing more than the emblems of Flash, Green Lanter, Superman, Bats.
Anyone got a good place to go? The DC site doesn't have anything like it that I can find, and I've already got a Justice League desktop paper, too.

Board's been pretty dead, however...

Just read over at TvTome that the Ultimen in the next episode, Ultimatum are actually the loser Ethnic Diversity contingent of the Superfriends.To quote, "The Ultimen are an interracial group that include an African with lightning powers (Black Lightning), an Asian who can manipulate winds (Samurai), an Indian who can turn giant-sized (Apache Chief), and twin shapeshifters (the Wonder Twins)".The whole ep is structured as some sort of "tribute".

Personally, I find the whole concept hilarious.

Ok, that? Is gonna be good.

Picture of the Ultimen:
http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0409/27/j1.jpg

Are they the villians? Because that would indeed be hilarious. I won't be able to watch without comparing it to the Harvey Birdman episode though.

Hee! In your pants... ;-)

So I'm catching up with JLU on YTV. Last Friday they showed "This Little Piggy". Yowza! Catchy songs, laugh-out-loud moments, lots of razzle-dazzle... what's not to like?

A few comments and questions:

1) Bruce, your first argument about not dating WW is a valid one. Your second? A bit less. Just because you're from different backgrounds doesn't mean you can't make it work. Your third? Now, that's just silly. Diana could pound you into the ground without working up a sweat. If anything, you're the vulnerable one. Please get over yourself.

2) Okay, so my knowledge of DC heroes is clearly far from complete. I recognized Red Tornado and Elongated Man (and hadn't known about Bwana Beast). But who's that guy in red, with the old-style cloak and hat?

Favorite moments: a toss up between:

"If you see Circe, tell her I want my curling iron back." Okay, we'll... WHAT? (Actually, any of Medusa's lines. That lady's a hoot!)

and:

"You dare strike--" <WHAP>
"You dare strike--" <WHAP>
"You dare strike--" <WHAP>
"QUIT IT!"

Hee!

IIRC, that was the Crimson Avenger.

Hey, gang...YTV aired Ultimatum last night. I watched it twice, first at 9:00, then again at midnight. Whee! Anyway, it was a very interesting episode that picked up on certain plot points from earlier in this season. It also featured the animated debuts of a pair of long-established characters from DC continuity. I'm not sure I should even mention them in spoiler mode, as it was nice to be surprised, and I probably shouldn't tempt y'all. (Also, to be honest, they were the only real surprises; from the Cartoon Network's bare-bones description of the ep, I'd already guessed what the Ultimen's "dark secret" was going to be.)

Is there any word on when the new episodes are airing in the US?

Not yet. According to the helpful Toonzone schedule, it looks like another month of reruns:

November 6: "The Return" (8:30 PM EDT/11:30 PM EDT)
November 13: "The Greatest Story Never Told" (8:30 PM EDT/11:30 PM EDT)
November 20: "Initiation" (8:30 PM EDT/11:30 PM EDT)
December 4: "Hawk and Dove" (8:30 PM EDT/11:30 PM EDT)

But there's still a fourth season to go, right? This is just the second half of the third, right?

Oh, the laughter after those lines.

Oh, and Pot, meet Kettle.

Yup. Kevin Conroy also mentioned that CN has greenlit a third season (or a fifth season, depending on how you look at it) of JLU:

http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.phpt...eague+unlimited

Dunno if it's true or not yet, but here's hoping!

More reruns! Aagh! Oh well, I'll just see The Incredibles again every saturday night this month to compensate.

Paul Dini was at Wizard World, mostly talking about Lost, but here's the parts pertinent to this thread.

Apparently Dark Heart has only screened in Canada. As such, I guess spoiler tags are in order.

Surprised to see Warren Ellis' name on the credits. Less surprised after the whole nanotechnological- threat-from-beyond plot. Quite a good story by itself and with some advancement on what I guess is the season's story-arc (those in authority are verrry nervous about the JL).

Plus, a gratuitous cheesecake moment for Diana! Finally.

BTW, the version I saw had end credits that had teasers of the next 2 eps. Looks interesting...

The creator of The Flash has died.

I am annoyed with Cartoon Network's reruns. Why does Canada get to see both Ultimatum and Dark Heart in advance?

"The greatest story never told" is such a fun episode. I might want to see Booster Gold and Skeets again, but the episode was such a good one shot I think it would be best to just leave the characters be.

Was anyone else really worried when skeets got sucked into the blackhole? I figured since Booster was a guest star they might actually kill of his sidekick.

Yeah, me too. Especially since Skeets is an artificial being, and therefore can be killed by the writers more easily (Why no, I haven't gotten over seeing Red Tornado being sliced in two and blown up, why do you ask?)

Keep in mind that artificial beings are more easily brought back to life as well. Living ones too, but that usually requires more of an explanation. One thing to keep in mind is that many of the guest heroes whom actually talk have or will show up at least twice (Captain Atom, Green Arrow, Supergirl, Question, Dr. Fate, Atom, maybe Aquaman) or have VAs pulling double duty (Will Friedle (Kyle Rayner and Future Batman), Peter Onorati (B'wana Beast and Warhawk), Chris McDonald (Jor-El and maybe future Superman) so we may see Booster and Skeets again.

So, from Wake the Dead

Hawkgirl is back, rockin' the tank top look. We get to find out the result of the vote at the end of Starcrossed. Superman broke the tie and voted to keep Shayera in the League (GL recused himself from the vote). They also work in a Ol' Yeller reference that brought a tear to my eye.

So, does anyone want to take pity on me and tell me what's up with Identity Crisis and Green Lantern?

A long while ago, someone told me changes were coming for both, and being in law school, I have neither the time nor resources to read them. I can only check in.

I'd like to know what's transpired, please.

Oy. Identity Crisis takes way too long to explain, save that it's rocking the DC Universe and there have been at least three deaths. Green Lantern? I'm guessing you're thinking of Rebirth. There's only been one issue so far...the plan is to give oldschool fanboys a bone and bring Hal Jordan back as Green Lantern...even if it means alienating Kyle fans like myself. I could be wrong. You can find issues of both series at comic shops...the first issues have multiple printings and covers, so you don't have to shell out too much.

I picked up Green Lantern/Green Arrow: Hard-Travelling Heroes v2 yesterday. I bring this up since it includes the debut of John Stewart as Hal's backup GL. "Beware My Power"? Pretty good stuff, and it does age well for something that was written in the late Sixties.

Who all's died in IC?
I know that Elongated Man's wife has, but who else.

Is there a site you can point me to that recaps what's going on in the comics? The DC site is great, but it doesn't offer any recaps of series or characters' storylines at all.

The deaths in IC have been Sue Dibny, at the hands of the murderer, and the original Captain Boomerang and Jack Drake, at the hands of each other, although the murderer set both of them up.

I know of one comic book website that has recaps: www.supermanhomepage.com

It offers recaps of all current (and some defunct and classic) comic book series that involve the Man of Steel and his various supporting characters and relatives, as well as describes books, television series, movies, etc. Pretty much everything Superman related shows up there. It reviews both JL/JLU and Smallville, and while the format of the Smallville reviews leaves much to be desired, the sheer level of snark makes them TWOP worthy (IMO).

Okay, I have to know, who is it that is supposed to die in this episode? Is it Hawkgirl? Grundy? Do they do a flashback to the vote or do they just mention it to her? Does she return for good? Thanks.

It's implied that Grundy dies, although it is kind of left hanging. *shrugs* As for the vote, they only mention that Superman was the tie breaker, and that GL didn't vote at all. Hope that helps.

Just to remind folks: Stuff that's been shown in the U.S. (like Red Tornado being ripped in half) is not a spoiler and should not be tagged. Conversely, anything that's been shown outside the U.S. -- but not in the U.S. -- is a spoiler, and should be tagged.

And some incidental discussion of comic books is fine, but please remember that this is the place to discuss the show.

Thanks, LTG, for the compasion. Now that Magnus has pointed me to a usable site, no more comic questions unless tiny and absolutely necessary.

Does anyone know why the delay on the DVD release of this series is out there? With the speed they decided to put out Batman/Superman adverntures form the early 90s and the speed they put out StarCrossed, I thought they would be quick with this one, too. But they're not.

And the way they're delaying the second half of the third season implies that the fourth season will be a long way off, so I'd think they'd want to get the first two seasons out to us.

Oh, well.

Incidentally, they just announced the first JLU DVD:

http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=2480

No idea what episodes are included, but judging from the cover the first one will definitely be on it. I've gotta say, though, that the subtitle ("Saving the World") is just atrocious. Release date is February 15, 2005.

Speaking of the vote at the end of Starcrossed... Now that we know which way Superman voted, any speculation on who voted in what way? Been a while since I've seen the episode, but Wonder Woman looked to be against reinstating Hawkgirl, while Flash was definitely for bringing her back in the fold. I don't really recall which way Batman or J'onn were leaning, though. If there was a tie, then I'd think J'onn voted for while Batman voted against.

Actually, CN had a change of heart so the next three episodes are coming up in December. That just leaves the two part finale, which they'll hopefully show in January. Of course, who knows when the fourth season is coming. I know that they are pretty much done script-wise, so it seems like the animation is the main time factor.

As for that vote, I think that J'onn and Flash voted her in, while Batman and WW wanted her out. From what we saw, with the exception of Batman and Superman the others seemed pretty set in their opinion, with Superman straddling the fence and Bats not showing an opinion at all.

My favorite character in Wake The Dead has to be Amazo. I just loved the way he very quietly sat and watched during the chess game; I got the impression that no matter how hyperintelligent and quasi-omnipotent he is, these little moments of social interaction are endlessly fascinating. Plus, Robert Picardo rocks.

Sometimes in the commercial and the show's intro they have a flash of all the Justice Leaguers and there's a woman w/ short hair in an amazon-ish costume. Does anyone know who she is?

Major spoilers for next three episodes.

Wake The Dead was a damn good episode!!! Although for the first few times I watched I was too busy bouncy up and down going "YAY HAWKGIRL!!" to pay close attention but after that I noticed just how awsome it ws!

SO, where are y'all seeing Wake the Dead? Has it been airing somewhere and I've missed it? I've seen everyone this season, and with finals coming up, I don't want to miss any more.