I noticed that in the opening credits and groaned. Zimmerman's crappy writing plus the use of boring old Hawk and Dove made this ep less than enjoyable for me.

The only thing that saved it was seeing WW in civvies.

Simone, eh? Dig her BoP, not too crazy about her Legion.

This was an ep where Wonder Woman actually had a history with one of her rogues' league villains. Why don't they create a relationship between her and Cheetah or Giganta? I'd like to see some of that stuff.

I've actually liked every episode so far this season. Perhaps I'm easily pleased.

I thought Ares' little rant was well-written and well-spoken by Michael York, who I most recently saw in a bizarre 1970's version of The Three Musketeers. (Yeesh - don't watch it.) It's been a while since I've seen and heard nihilist frothing of this sort nominally aimed at the eyes and ears of impressionable young adults; it's also been a while since I've seen much respect given to pacifism as a means of social change in this era of War and Hatred. "Where else but cartoons are young folks these days going to be exposed to such subversive ideas," he says tongue gently cheeked. "Did the Liberal Elites start teaching satyagraha and aikido in the public schools and I missed the memo?"

Was this a perfect episode? No. They're moralizing with less-than-usual grace this season, a clumsiness probably imposed by the half-hour format. The first episode was a pretty blatant allusion to North Korea's nuclear weapons program, as well as a variation on David and Goliath, and this latest one was certainly un-subtle about its take on genocide and ethnic cleansing in the Balkans or elsewhere. I'm not someone who believes in morality-free programming, so this doesn't bother me much; I love The PowerPuff Girls and The Fairly OddParents, for example.

Nor are the show's common elements perfect. Yes, the theme sucks and should be canned. Yes, they should stop with the opening teasers. But hey - I've seen much worse than this, and I can only imagine that's true of everyone here. *cough*TruCalling*/cough*, *sneeze*DragonBall*/sneeze* To me, this is solid B-grade stuff, maybe even A- at times. I'm willing to wait and see what else gets served - I can only hope that these are the appetizers, and a main course or two will arrive later this season. There's some nice hints at arcs-in-the-building-phase to which I look forward - we'll see if they manage to truly devote the time necessary as the season proceeds.

I thought Hawk & Dove were kind of meh, but I did enjoy Diana's part. VA-wise I liked Hawk & Dove though.

Well, in my opinion, yes and no. I think we are investing a lot of time in at WW/Bats personal relationship, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if we were supposed to think that WW is a little cranky due to the last thing we saw happen before this episode. ("I haven't been a kid since I was eight years old.")

So, if we want to make a link to Diana's bad attitude about thugs and Bruce, I would lean towards thinking that she was pretty upset/sad that he's messed up because a thug took away his childhood. In other words, if she's in a bad mood because of Batman, it's not because she can't get close to him, but rather that she's maybe closer to his pain and is frustrated that she can't do anything to stop it.

Either that, or they just needed her to be all violent and angry at the beginning, so that he or she could realize that being not violent and angry was the only way to solve the problem at the end of the episode.

I've never been a fan of Hawk and Dove in the first place, but I was hoping they wouldn't be so boring in the cartoon. Sadly I was wrong.

Things that I am totally looking forward to is the ep written by Gail Simone (yay!) and the voice appearance of Ben "Yummy" Browder. Getting the talent that they have for this show is pretty impressive.

I've been telling a friend of mine to watch the show for weeks now, and the episode she finally turned on for was the Hawk and Dove one. Oy, that has to be the worst one yet. Although, she said that she does love the show, and will keep watching now that she's a bored college student without a job. I can't wait to hear her reaction when she sees some of the actually good episodes.

And "YAY!" Ben Browder. It seems like I'm going to overdose on that man this fall.

Comics Continuum on the next episode. And mother of pearl, it might be either the funniest episode ever or the most painful.

Well, if WW is around to see what Batman has to do in the upcoming attitude, I think she'll be in a pretty good mood for a while. I think his actions probably rank right near the top of his list of things he never, ever wants to do with witnesses around. Especially witnesses who won't hesitate to bring it up again. Heck, if the Flash were around (which I'm assuming he's not) there'd probably some sort of bribery around to keep his trap shut.

While the new show doesn't offer many chances for character development, it does have one thing going for it. With a mix of "hero of the week" and one (or more) of the core JLers , you have more celebrities willing to voice a guest spot.

The old JL had its share of celebs, but I get the feeling we'll see somebody famous voicing every week.

Something tells me that bribery is much lower on his list of tools than sheer intimidation.

Hee! This Little Piggy sounds like it might just be very funny. And Lorraine Newman guests? Nice!

Okay, I give 'This Little Piggy' a 9.9 out of 10.

The reason I refuse to give this episode a solid 10 is for one reason only..B'Wanna Beast....B'WANNA BEAST! Fucking B'WANNA BEAST?? The lamest DC superhero of all time!! (even lamer than Vibe)

If they wanted to have a member that could speak to animals, why didn't they pick Animal Man?? He's a billion times cooler than B'Wanna Beast!!

Anyway, other than that idiotic bit, this episode was total gold! Zatanna! A Red Tornado cameo! Elongated Man cameo!! More Zatanna!! Batman sings!! Priceless!

Guest Starring: B'Wanna Beast. The fates themselves could not have predicted this. And if they could, they just didn't know how to break it to us. And I'd like to see Red Tornado get a little more face time.

Once again, I get the feeling these guys are trying to 'Marvel"ize the concept a little bit. The JLU version of Circe tends to resemble Marvel's Sersi from The Eternals and Avengers. (Though DC's version did have purple hair.)

Looks like they are alternating serious and light-hearted episodes this season. I still think Batman got off pretty easy, though. His audience consisted of a bunch of people he'll never see again and an old friend who isn't particularly intimidated by him anyway.
He's also lucky angry WW seemed to be MIA this week: she seemed pretty reasonable.

I also enjoyed Bat's matter of fact points at the beginning of the episode, even though it would be far easier for most villains to take him out as opposed to vice versa. Most of his rogue's gallery wouldn't stand a chance against anyone with superpowers. At least he knows he has issues.

My God, B'wana Beast, I never thought they would ever show him. I mean, he honestly is one of the most lamest characters in the DC Universe. But the rest, pure gold and now for my debit card joke:

Tickets to Zatanna's Show: 25 dollars on debit card.
Fresh pork chops: 10 dolalrs on debit card.
Batman singing: "Am I blue?": Priceless.

There's a fine line between humor and stupidity. This ep crossed it.

I can buy Zatanna graduated to comic class and doing the backwards speak thing. I can buy Circe turning Wonder Woman into a pig...it's not only comic canon, it's mythology canon. But the rest? No. Just...no. Diana-Babe with the braclets? Red Tornado calling "Sooey"? Batman singing? No. Hell no.

And B'Wana Beast? Come on, he has the quirkiest power in the DCU: the ability to merge animals in unique ways. Why make him a dipshit who tracks animals? And how couldn't he pick Diana-Babe out of the pigpile?

Bad writers. Bad, bad writers. And yeah...I am blue. Very fucking blue.

I think he's just giving excuses although I think he's using his head and not his heart. WW is still going to be very young while Bats will be in the retired superheroes rest home.

B'Wana Beast. No comment.

LOL!

Batman singing was fuckin' priceless! Zatanna had to have had secretly got that on tape. She'd make a mint off of it.

Oh yeah, and Wonder Woman versus the Dumbest Butcher Ever was also pretty sweet. :P

So whatever happened to Circe? I don't think they addressed what became of her. And the League keeps sorcerers on payroll now? I suppose it makes sense, though they could just turn to Dr. Fate for free.

Never heard of B'wanna Beast before (I'm not up on the DC mythos). I hope that if we're going to keep getting bombarded with less recognizable new guys, we'll get a decent explanation of what they can do and all. I was confused as to who the other guys out there were.

But yeah, this was a great one. :) I hope we see Flash and maybe more out of Martian Manhunter, Green Arrow, Supergirl, and maybe Dr. Fate again.

She's probably the one who told WW about it. I doubt she had enough time between the spell reversal and the end of the song to actually fly halfway across the world and hear it in person.



I think this was the entire point of inviting all of these different heroes into the League: although in this episode it made sense for the other Leaguers not to show up.



You'll see Supergirl, Green Arrow, and MM next week. I'm not sure about the other two, but presumably all of the heroes will be seen in two weeks when AMAZO comes back.

God, that was bad ... Where to start?

First the whole Bats/WW thing feels so forced and unnatural. Sorry, I just don't buy it. I don't care how many times they show them 'flirting', it just feels abnormal and wrong. I get it writers, Batman is hot stuff, all the women want his bat-bod, but he's to good for them.

Two, what a lame plot resolution ... Circe has a major hate on for Diana's mother? So she turns her into a pig. Fair enough. Then she reverses the spell so she can get Batman to sing? That's it? They won with the power of song? Maybe next week the JL can wipe out all crime on Earth with a touching rendition of "We Are The World" ...

Three. The 'evil slaughter house worker' subplot was just horrendous. It was funny. Only not.

Four.
Zantana: Bruce, I'm hot for you.
Batman: Listen, fishnets are *soooo* 5 years ago. I'm Batman, I've moved up, I've got the top woman in the DC universe lusting after me ... You think I'm going to bother with you?
Zantana: Fine, why don't we do something logical and call in Fate to help us deal with this?
Batman: No way, that would detract from my essential 'Batness'. Besides, I don't want any other cool guys hanging around, it'd make me look like less of a stud. I'm only going to call in the scrubs to help out on this one.

Heh. So true.



Which is why I don't like this WW/Batman flirting. They did the same exact thing in the JLA comic and it all came to a head in JLA#90something (I forget which issue exactly) in which both Batman and Diana have fanstasies of what life would be like if they did hook up and it always ended in the same thing - Bruce in severe old age having to be wheeled about by eternally young WW. Kind of like the the Aragorn/Arwen relationship in LOTR appendices (which is hinted at in the movies) which did not end up happily ever after for the same reason. So the comic writers let the UST lapse while the cartoon picks it up.



Animal Man would have served the same purpose and been much cooler. Except he doesn't go around hopping in a loincloth in some lame Brooklyn/Chicago hybrid accent thats more fitting to Wildcat.

I'm honestly surprised that Paul Dini wrote this episode. He considers himself the biggest Zatanna fan in the world (and wrote her last solo comic appearence) and based on things he's said he's a huge Bruce/Z shipper.He also wrote IIRC Zatanna's appearence in Batman:TAS which gave Zatanna and Batman a past their comic versions don't share. So I'm surprised he would write an ep in which the WW/Bats thing is pushed to the forefront while Zatanna is just a "friend". Oh well, Zatanna is always cool anyway. Something about a woman in top hat, tails and fishnets.

The Red Tornado and original Crimson Avenger cameos were cute and it was especially poignant to see Elongated Man in a comic cameo considering what's going on with him right now in the DC comic-verse.

Please please please pleeeeaaase tell me someone has an MP3 of Batman singing that I can download. Pleeeaaaasse.


I'm in love.


sininging!


*Squee*


Also, there is no one I would have rather seen as a pig. No one.

That was goofy. I'm still trying to figure out if it was good-goofy or bad-goofy, though.

F'r instance, Batman singing? Admittedly: 1.) the music choice was funny, and 2.) Conroy's voice is The Sexy, but still...Batman singing. At least, I can't imagine him shrugging off any embarrassment (which I think he'd be more prone to than pride/bemusement in this situation) so easily afterwards, especially when WW starts humming at the end.

Okay, PigDiana blocking the bullets made me giggle, though it was bothersome that she seemed human-intelligent one minute and pig-intelligent the next.

Never heard of B'Wana Beast either, but he was oddly endearing (although perhaps he is merely filling some sort of Flash-shaped wisecracking void). Hope they didn't just leave the poor guy in the pigpen.

Also agree that Bats/WW doesn't really work for me. Or rather, it worked better when it was subtler; the two of them talking about it isn't half as believable as the two of them just backing each other up.

Finally, I wasn't sure how everyone took Bats' "Let's not tell too many people about this" thing and extracted "Dude, Bats and Diana, sitting in a tree! Squeee!". It seemed more of a "saving WW from too much embarrassment" deal than anything else.

Personally, the most enjoyable option seems to be pretending that everything took place in an alternate (and goofy!) universe, so's I can laugh without thinking too much about it.

Well, I can imagine Batman singing if he had too. And clearly, he had to. He always struck me as a guy who got it done.


However, I have to agree with GirlDrinkDrunk about the Bats/WW relationship. I feel more like Batman would be annoyed by the pressure she's so obviously putting on him than to still be interested. His excuses seemed kind of weak, kind of like..."okay.. she shot that one down. what else..what else darnit! I'm running out of reasons not to date her!"


ETA: MP3? Wav? Anything? Plllllleeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaase???

What's with the WW fixation? She's been in every episode since the season premiere! There are other heroes. This is almost like Superfriends all over, only with a much better plot and good usage of new characters.

I loved Bats' singing too. I also loved Medusa's appearence. I am still trying to figure out whether or not that goddess was Athena. It's her, right?

Astraea is the Greek god of justice, I believe.

I don't mind the Batman/Wonder Woman thing happening here. And I really liked this episode - but then I have always liked Zatanna. And I wasn't creeped out by Bats singing.

It wasn't Athena. It was Justice.

I've never heard of that one before. Thanks.

Goos? Hah!

Yep, you're right. The star constellation Virgo, is also called Astraea.



Circe wanted the satisfaction of seeing uptight Batman humiliate himself in front of her. That was the "price". The thing about Circe is she really isn't obsessed about stuff like "taking over the world" like other villains. She just likes screwing with mortals because it amuses her. Batman did what she wanted him to do, so she got her jollies and that was enough for her.

Okay, I'm in the faction that liked this episode. I mean, come on, it has Wonder Pig, Zatanna, Red Tornado and Elongated Man cameos, and Batman freakin' singing.

When Circe told Batman he had to give up something he would never get back and then it switched to him singing, I though, "His dignity?" It was just so funny - and even funnier was than Zatanna and Circe were crying!

Now I want to see Black Canary. More fishnets! Fishnets League Unite!

And does anyone think that maybe Flash isn't in it anymore because Michael Rosenbaum has scheduling difficulty with Smallville?

The guy that rang the bell and held up the picture of the pig...who was that? Sargon? Crimson Avenger?

And please...don't make Medusa a recurring character. She was a little too "on" for my tastes.

ITA with Zerowing, those immortals don't make a lot of sense when it comes to things they want or don't want. (It's kind of like the way they used to write Q in Star Trek; he'd rather jerk you around than actually do something meaningful.) Therefore, I accepted the resolution with no problem. They actually set up that ending earlier in the episode with the whole trade "special item for special item" deal.

Overall, this was a fun episode, and I think we've reached a resting point in the Bats/WW story. I think I mentioned here a few times over the last three weeks, they've obviously been looking for somebody to fill the void left by GL/HG. The last three or four episodes have been building to this one, where they finally discuss it with each other and come to some sort of resolution.

The resolution is, that they both feel a chemistry, WW is willing to dive in and deal with his issues, and he's finally willing to admit that she might be strong enough to deal with him and will probably let his guard down a little bit with her from now on. There aren't going to be any wedding bells or frooffy stories with them. That's not the resolution we reached this week. If you watched The Sopranos this season, I would say it is a resolution much like the one between Carmela and Tony. There's obviously going to be a lot of bumps in the road, but they both feel that they'll be better trying to be together than apart. I would guess that the show will stop spending so much time on it now, and instead let it just pop up in future stories as a fact that may or may not have an effect on decisions made regarding the specific situations.

It was such goofy fun, I couldn't not like it.

In fact, I liked it so much I decided to come out of lurkerdom and mention it.

Zatanna was such a snarky wonder. They need to bring her back.

Since I'm an unabashed Bruce/Diana shipper, their interplay makes me squee.

I can see how Circie could get tiresome quickly. But she was such a campy diva I couldn't help but love every minute of her. Especially that she borrowed Medusa's curling iron and didn't give it back. Medusa was also pretty damn fun.

Although for me, the best was Zatanna smacking Circe with progressively larger objects while Circe kept getting interrupted with her commands that they stop.

And much, much, much better animation.
I don't mind the WW fixation so far cause I likes me the Wonder Woman. I liked the episode. Loved seeing Zatanna again. I agree with alliterator more fishnets!!
Was the Circe singing bit an homage to Jessica Rabbit?
Loved hearing Bats sing. I wonder how much the Joker would've paid to see that? Speaking of the Joker....Are there any eps in the future with Joker and Harley? Got my fingers crossed.

I loved seeing Zantanna again, not all that interested in Circe. Zatanna hitting Circe with bigger and bigger objects was funny and so was Batman's singing.

Did I see a 'Babe' and 'Wizard of Oz' reference in this ep?

I don't mind a brief WW/Bats fling, but think WW and Sups way more compatible.

I did think this ep ventured a little to much into absurdity.

Still lame.

1. As they point out themselves, Batman isn't a bad singer.
2. That's the most humiliating thing a frinkin goddess can think of? Forcing someone with a good voice to sing in front of a room full of strangers that he'll never see again? Why not force him to dance Swan Lake in front of the whole JL while wearing a pink tutu, now that would be embarrassing.
3. After they went out of their way to establish the hate-on Circe has for Wonder Mom, there's no way she should let Diana off that easy.

With the whole longevity thing, yeah. Personality-wise, I don't quite see it.

I was not fond of John/Shayera, and I'm not really a shipper in general, but there's something about Bats/WW that sparks for me.

Now, if Catwoman was around, especially in her post-Hush persona, that would be a different story.

That's still only delaying the inevitable, since in this version of the DCU Superman may age a bit more slowly but will still die of old age at some point. Besides, he has to deal with this problem himself since it's been clearly established that his one and only is Lois Lane, with Lana Lang a distant second. Even if Lois still isn't romantically interested in Clark Kent she's enamored with Supes and I couldn't see him flirting with other women at this point.



Actually, I was wondering if WW ever found Circe. She seemed pretty ticked off, and I find it hard to believe that she would just let the matter drop so quickly. Being turned into a pig and coming within a few seconds of death should justify some vengence. Perhaps she was just distracted by the blues.

Well, IMO, Clark is a much better match for Diana personality wise than Bruce will ever be. Not that I'm a Supes/WW shipper, but Batman in any sort of real relationship just won't work.

One of the defining characteristics of Bruce though the entire run of the Dini/Timm animated continuity is that he holds 'the mission' above all else. He'll never be able to have a real lasting relationship (romantic or friendship) because he's always going to be dedicated to the mission.

They show this in Batman Beyond, where Bruce is old and alone, having pushed away every person who's ever cared for him. Dick and Tim will have nothing to do with him. Barbara (who he did have a romantic relationship with) has huge problems with him and warns Terry away from ever getting involved in Bruce's world. Batman is not a costume that Bruce Wayne wears, in the end Batman is the real person and Bruce is the mask.

So, IMO, having Diana chase after him like a schoolgirl with a crush is just insulting. Not only is it the typical cliché of the good girl lusting after the brooding bad boy. It can never end anyway other than badly for her, she'll just end up being pushed away because, ultimately, Batman can't have anyone else in his life. Everything has to be done his way, for his mission, and a girlfriend will get in the way of that.


Ahhh ... But this is JLU, where the logic and characterization of the previous JL series takes a backseat to wacky hi-jinxs and the obnoxiously cute.

I think the reason the writers are shipping WW with Bats is because there's an unwritten rule that every superheroine on this show has to have a connection with a superhero. Zatana appeared to be interested in Bats, there seemed to be something between Katma Tui and GL before he hooked up with Hawkgirl, Black Canary's only function on the show so far has been to attract Green Arrow's interest, and the remaining superheroines who've appeared on JL/JLU for more than a group shot are either a superhero's partner (Inza Nelson, Mera) or otherwise related to one (Supergirl). Am I missing anybody?

It's a good thing that evil sorceresses have a strong sense of honor in the DCU, because that's the second time this season that a sorceress agreed to change someone back at the end because "a deal's a deal." I would have thought that Circe would have more of an edge after spending a few centuries in hell, but even if I accept that she only wanted to have a little fun, I gotta agree with Perfect Xero that she'd come up with something other than making Batman sing.

I did like Zatana, though, and I was amused by Batman's list of reasons why he can't date WW (including his concern about his enemies trying to get revenge on him by attacking her) because I could imagine him thinking that.

"Insolent Trickster! You dare to strike..*TWHAP*...you dare to strike...*TWHAP*...you dare...*TWHAP* Cut it out!"

And then the piano.

The rest of the episode could have been crap, I'd still have loved it just for that.

Re: Bruce and his love life. While I think Dini/Timm have set up Batman's isolation very, very well, I also think that they've stressed that he is alone not because he wants to be, but because he's afraid not to be (er, or something). I mean, he clearly loves Selina.

Actually, that's a debatable issue. The cells in Superman's body seem to possess an infinite capacity for energy absorption. At the present, he almost never needs to eat, sleep, or even need oxygen to breath. He can live almost indefinitely from his solar energy reserves. And his powers are only growing as he ages. He may actually be immortal.

There was an alternate future shown in the DC One-Million mini-series which takes place 1 million years in the future where the present-day Superman is still alive and living in the sun, after fully transforming into a being made of energy.

That was my favorite part of the episode, starri. I had to rewind it once or twice.

And for those requesting an mp3 of Batman singing... here you go. The password is "batsisblue". It was taken from the show so unfortunately it includes sniffles and talking from Circe and Zatanna. If you want a "clean" version, someone involved with the production staff would probably have to do it... sorry. But enjoy.

I watched this episode today, and I was somewhat disappointed, as I have been with all of the JLU episodes so far (granted I missed the first one). I enjoy seeing some of the second and third tier DCU heroes (Zee rocked in this episode), but the stories have been a bit too silly at times, mostly this one and the one from two weeks ago. I mean Wonder Woman as pig was crazy enough, but I just don't buy Batman singing. That scene disappointed me in so many ways. The animated Bats has always been the definitive Bats to me, but that was not Batman singing the blues. I think I have to go watch some B:TAS DVDs now.

I like Batman/WW better then I could ever possibly like WW/Superman. It isn't that I don't like Clark, it's just that it seems so lazy to pair them together, to obvious and cliched. Perhaps in other incarnations they fit together better, but in the DC animated continuity I don't see very many reasons to put them together. Superman is a Hero, he isn't a Warrior. He fights for Justice, but half his battle is fought by his being a symbol that others look up too. Though he is impressive in his intelligence and resourcefulness, he doesn't have the discipline of a warrior. On the surface WW and Superman fit together well, but their essential natures kinda clash. WW is a warrior, and I think that what attracts her to Batman is that Batman is a fellow warrior. Batman is the Dark Knight, after all.

Now, all that means that I understand the attraction between WW and Batman. However, their romance is doomed. While WW is attracted to certain parts of Batmans personality I'm sure that his obsessiveness and general weirdness will drive her away sooner or later. So, I think that the things that make Batman a "Bad Boy" will be the things that eventually end any possible relationship between WW and Batman, instead of being the cause of it.

I gave this week's episode a try, after not tuning in to the show since the early days of its original incarnation (not because of a lack of quality; I just never remembered to watch it when it was on and eventually gave up). I'm much more of a Marvel person in general, but in the time I've spent reading comics I've soaked in enough DC information to at least have a passing familiarity with most of the characters. I'm a little fuzzy on the finer details of some of them -- I can tell you how the Vision and the Human Torch are related, but I can only barely understand Hawkman's origin, and I read the story that supposedly cleared it all up.

That said, there was some good stuff here, and I recognize that it was a comedic episode, but the show does seem to have devolved since the last time I watched it. The larger cast also seems to burden the show with a legion of no-hopers like B'Wana Beast. Seriously, B'Wana Beast? If you bring in Animal Man, not only can he talk to the pigs, you can have Grant Morrison show up and use his metaphysical powers to set everything right again.

I also have to agree with the majority of posters here that the theme song sounds like what would happen if you took a garage band from 1982 and threw them in a lake.

ETA: I know this is stretching back a few pages, but Green Arrow? Definitely not as cool as Hawkeye. But I think I would get along better with Ollie.

evilredsmurf Thank you thank you thank you! You're my hero!

Actually, the romatic tension between Bruce and Diana was covered in JLA during Joe Kelly's run as writer. It was...different to say the least.

Seriously, who was that hero that pig-hunted with Red Tornado and Elongated Man?

The Crimson Avenger. Canonically DC's first superhero (appearing for the first time during the 30's). How he's here, I have no idea.

As for the episode, it had plenty of the good, and plenty of the bad. The whole Wonder-Pig subplot was bad, and should have been dropped (or at the very least have her fly). The rest, good.