I laughed and laughed. Gotta love some spoiled-brat-child Mordred - putting the "Justice" back in "Justice League". Mini-Bat was a gag-and-a-half - poor little Bruce afraid of some girl-germs? (Hee!) Super-short's befuddled "What?" to Green Votive? And we had fun, fun, fun 'til the Amulet was taken away...

Possibly the only improvement I can imagine would have been Etrigan following up "Mommy!" with "What big -" before being dropped on his butt by Wonder Woman. Now THAT would have made my day.

I have to say, Teevee's commentary to the contrary, I'm enjoying this season so far just as much as last season's. I liked the opener, I liked "For the Man who has Everything", and I liked this one. I hope and trust they'll continue to deliver good stuff, and I'll keep watching.

ETA: "I an Vengeance - I am the Night - I am Killjoy, er, Batman!" Bruce, dear, get some therapy; learn to laugh a little without the aid of Joker-Gas. Sheesh. Wonder Woman shoulda smacked him gently but firmly upside the skull for being such an asshat.

Actualy, this is a minor problem. If every adult did vanish, there would be a whole lot of car crashes, plane crashes, etc. Oh well, I'm reminded of Xena's quote in that Simpsons' Halloween episode: "A wizard did it." That's actually perfectly acceptable in this episode.



Bats doesn't always need Joker gas. Ever watch Mad Love? His laugh there is downright creepy. Besides, even though he occassionally smiles it would be completely out of character for this version of Batman to laugh just for the heck of it.

I thought this episode was hilarious. That isn't suprising since I like the X-Babies.

Am I the only person who thought this episode kicked Teen Titans' pointy anime asses?

No Daisy. You are so not the only one.

Same here. I thought there was potential for this to be a disaster, but after watching it, and enjoying it, I'm happy with it.

As far as stringing togehter a few episodes, rather than doing the separate 30 minute stories, I think we'll get some of those later. It seems to me that the first order of the day is to set up the new way of the world in JLU, and maybe put a few new things in our heads before moving on to big stories. For example, through three episodes, we've seen that GL's changed his look, in an obvious attempt to start over post-bird nookie. We've planted a couple WW-Bats seeds of love. And we've TWICE pointed out that Bruce is never going to get over what made him Batman. I'm not sure why we've been shown that two times in the first three episodes, but I doubt it's just for no reason. Lastly, we got a taste of what might happen as we bring new characters into the mix, but at the same point been shown that the show still revolves around the big 3/6.

I figure that we've got at least one or two more building block episodes before we get into some multi-part episodes.

Off the top of my head, I remember that Blockbuster was named in the credits.

Had to take a peek at the next episode description. It's "Hawk and Dove." Quick concept: two brothers are granted special powers by unknown force. One is a gung-ho reactionary who loves to fight, the other is a liberal who never raises a fist. The plot has them and Wonder Woman interceding in a civil war, so that fits with the concept.

ETA: I had wanted to include a link in there, but that didn't happen. Last thing I wanted to do was spoil anything. I just forgot to close the tags. And in a neat twist, Comics Continuum reveals that the voices of our guest heroes are...Fred Savage and Jason Harvey, better known as Kevin and Wayne Arnold from The Wonder Years.

Now I am excited for tomorrow's episode. Given how awesome WW was last week, it's cool to see her in another episode again

Also that is great voice casting. Does anyone know who is doing the voice of Booster Gold in his upcoming episode?

Thanks for the spoiler info, Lantern7. I haven't heard those Fred and Jason's voices together since TWY ended.

I love the fact that Fred Savage and Jason Harvey are doing the voices of Hawk and Dove. Very nice bit of casting.

I thought the more interesting casting in this episode was Michael York as Ares, and Ed Asner as Hephestes! Now who could actually picture York and Asner working on the same project? lol

Overall I thought it was a good episode. We got to get a glimpse of Diana´s temper. Hawk and Dove were cool. The fight scene in the bar where Hawk was needling Dove was funny. "Hey, you're the one who couldn't keep your big mouth shut!"

The Annihilator was a toughsonovabitch. Thankfully, Hephestes is a wise and crafty dude putting weaknesses in his stuff.

For those who don't read the comics, Wonder Woman and Ares are pretty much old adversaries. She's thrown a monkey wrench in Ares plans a number of times.

WW and the Arnold boys vs. Basil Exposition and his giant robot with a bunch of soldiers stuck in the middle. I'm not sure where all of that rage came from, WW never struck me as a particularly angry character. I think one problem that this episode had was that the solution was blindingly obvious the instant MM and WW had their little chat.

I'd also like to know how MM decides whom to send on these missions. It's not like he knew that Dove was needed for the solution. He should have just told GL to trap the thing in a bubble and toss it out into space.

I wonder if that whole weakness in the armor thing will ever show up again? I'm sure Batman would love to know about it. You just know he has a list in his mind on how to take down every single leaguer. Although from what we've seen in the series, a jolt of electricity should do the trick.

Something tells me Bruce has already found Diana's weakness...many times. : )

I liked this episode. Was that the INVISIBLE JET??? Seriously....I almost jumped out of my seat I was so happy.

Please, no one burst my bubble and tell me that it was the new Javelin.

Loved Diana's "And you know what? It's really starting to get on my nerves" as she's slapping around the bank robber. "Yeah. Cuz that's gonna work". hee! I love Snarky Wonder Woman.

"Outside Now".
And dominatrix Wonder Woman.

But dude who slapped her? Lucky he didn't get one of those red boots in his crotch!

I'm a big Hawk and Dove fan, and seeing Don and Hank Hall together made this fan boy's heart sing. Especially with what happened to the two of them, truly sad. Well, having York as Ares was great, guess that Gilmore Girls deal didn't work, since they killed his characters. Love Ares, though I wanted to see Wonder Woman doing some fighting with him.

Since WW is always saying "Great Hera" I figured she would have some history with the God of War. The only thing I can't understand is why when those soldiers were fighting why didn't they say "Who's that guy in a skirt waving a sword?"

This was nice. A little geo-political commentary from the producers by including these two brothers? Not to say it was a bad thing. The two of them, and the views they represent, were fairly well-handled. I felt sorry for Hawk and Dove when WW came in and busted up their fun. Just because she was in a pissy mood, she had to buzzkill everyone else. :P

Can't say I blame her pissy mood either. It must get frustrating to continually beat the fuck out of some petty thug only to have another petty thug pop up again. Good thing Martian Manhunter was on hand to defuse her (though maybe a little one-on-one "practice" session with Batman might have had a better effect ;) ). Strongarming Hephaestus might have proven to be stupid if he hadn't disarmed her by just not giving her jack nor squat.

Ares was a creep. Hope we see him again so he can be properly smacked down.



Nah. He wouldn't have gotten her foot in his crotch because she'd have kicked his crotch halfway up to his heart. :P Speaking of WW, it was funny the way he commented on her armor, her figure, and her mother all in the same sentence. It was even more funny that he got away with it.

Not really feeling this ep, and it's not fanwanking over Dove's abilities (mental enhancements rather than physical? No sweat). It's just a contest over who can get worked into the greatest tizzy:

Wonder Woman: "I go out into public, I fucking wear PANTS, and I gotta deal with fucking bank robbers? Are you kidding me? And now I gotta deal a civil war?"

Hawk: "Lady, you try getting stuck with a namby-pamby sissy brother. He's got super powers, and he just shoves the bad guys around! And I'm Fred Savage! I ain't eaten in months! Danica stopped taking my calls years ago!"

Ares: "Fight! FIGHT! Feed the rage of the Annihilator, you stupid mortal pieces of horse dung! I'm the God of War, bitch!"

I think Hep wasn't serious about Diana's armor having a weakness. And I thought "Achilles heal" actually suggested a heel. And this was an episode with Dove. I am so ashamed of myself.

Info on H&D. Fun stuff, and relevant back in the day.

I thought WW's aggression was a bit much; I can understand it in the objective sense, and everyone has bad days, but dealing with a punk while wearing civvies doesn't seem like something that should send her over the edge when we've never even really seen her skirting the edge before.

And when did Dove get Flash-fast? His zipping by and stealing that guy's gun, while totally his style, seemed above his power level. But, I'm not that familiar with the Don-Dove (not even that familiar with the Dawn-Dove, but I don't recall either having superspeed).

A little bit of a boring episode, but I liked the interaction between Hawk and Dove.

Is Wonder Womans attitude problem during the episode a little related to Batman, maybe? It's a little cliche to make a man the source of a womans problems, but Batman could easily wear on the nerves of someone looking for romance.

Is the Annihilator a recurring DC baddie, or did Timm and company just completely rip off The Destroyer concept from Thor?

That was dull, paint dryingly dull. It was like watching a 30 minute long PSA, War is bad, people who fight in wars are bad, and it's never more complicated than that.

Hawk and Dove, possibly the lamest and most cliché characters in the history of the animated DCU. The only thing that could've saved this episode for me would've been watching that armor turn them into saltwater taffy.

During the first fight the 'North Kaznians" are just using the armor to protect their land. Yet the Stupor-Hero's still attack them. Good one. And, once again we're faced with a small group of outmatched heroes choosing to completely ignore the hundreds of superheroes in the giant space station.

And why didn't they just come out and say that Wonder Woman was PMSing?

Given that her mythos says she's made from clay, I'm not sure if she goes through stuff like mere mortals.

While I'm thinking of it...is Diana in plainsclothes supposed to be a homage to her powerless days in the 60s?

ETA for Xero...

J'onn: Okay...we got a civil war in Plotdeviceatopia. Suggestions?

Superman: Since Ares is involved, we gotta send in Wonder Woman.

J'onn: But she's-

Superman: No proof of that.

J'onn: I will never understand human women. Anyway...the second-stringers are pissed that we've gone two whole episodes without bringing them in.

Superman: *sigh* (speaking into loudspeaker) Attention JLU members! Anybody wishing to volunteer for a dangerous assignment, please step forward. Should you live, you get half-off at the Watchtower Diner. And I understand Ollie Queen's got his chilli up to DEFCON 2.

J'onn: Moons of Mars, I thought that shit would kill me. Ah, here come a few volunt-, aw crap.

Vibe: 'Sup? I'm ready!

Gypsy: And with my vastly underdefined powers, I can-

Superman: I meant volunteers who don't suck. You guys were brought in for the first episode only.

Vibe: 'ey, fuck you!

Superman: Guess what? I fucked your mother. Just then. Flew in, took care of business, flew back up.

Vibe: Well...you are Superman. (walks off with Gypsy)

Mr. Terrific: With my amazing intellect and abilities, I can...

J'onn: I thought you were taking that "T" off your face. No go.

Atom: I'm ready!
Atom-Smasher: Me too!
Captain Atom: Me three!

Superman: "The league needs an expanded roster," they said. "Let anybody with a mask in." Damn!

J'onn: Brainstorm...Hawk and Dove.

Superman: You mean the lameasses who sprout wings when they're near each other?

J'onn: That was seven years ago...and you're, like, the only person who remembers that. No, I mean the original Hawk and Dove?

Superman: Dude, did you not read "Armageddon 2001"?

J'onn: Kal, stay with me. This is a whole new continuity. We got Don and Hank Hall, uncorrupted by "Crisis." One's a warhawk, the other's a pacifist. Oh, and do you remember "The Wonder Years"?

Superman: Mmmmmm....Winnie.

J'onn: I should be creeped out, but you didn't say, "Mmmmmm...Mrs. Arnold." Anyway, we got Fred Savage and Jason Hervey doing the voices...and "Wayne" does the voice of the gentler Dove...

Superman: ...while the younger Arnold plays the gung-ho Hawk! Brilliant! Okay...Hawk and Dove team up with Wonder Woman! What's up for next week?

J'onn: (reading script) "Green Lantern travels to Almerac to quell civil war." Hey, isn't Maxima from there?

Superman: It's John's duty to please sweet alien booty. Gotta rebound from Hawkgirl.

This season's turning into a real disappointment for me. Three mediocre episodes in a row. I'd thought that introducing all the new superheroes would open up possibilities, but that promise is yet unmet. As for WW's menstrual cycle, when you've got a near immortal lifespan, how many eggs would those ovaries pack?

It was weird seeing WW in civvies. I think it was a wink to her Early 70s white pantsuit look. I, too, found the comments by Hep 'bout Wonder Woman's build interesting...especially when she was leaving and he said "Come back when you have more time...I'll let that suit out a little". I'm surprised she didn't turn around and kick Hep square in the nuts.

I don't know if it was supposed to be a nod to the old "pants suit" look or not. I just thought she was supposed be taking time off, and she ended up having to squash some robbers.

As for her bad attitude, Diana has shown that sometimes her patience will run low when it comes to dealing with mortals tendency towards violence.

This may say bad things about me, but Dove makes me want to hit him. A lot. I could have sworn Dove was a girl?

In current continuity, Don = Dawn (Granger, though, not Hall). Not sure how she became Dove, or if she's related to Hank, or if there's any recollection of a post-Crisis Don.

Dove is a bit of a pansy; I know some people are literally that pacifistic, but it seems rather "pie in the sky" to me. Not that "Hawk Smash!" is a better alternative.

I don't really see Dove as a "pansy". When I think of a pansy, I think of someone that's unwilling to fight at all for any purpose.

Dove will fight if he has to protect himself or others. He just doesn't believe in fighting for the sake of fighting. He'd much rather end a conflict with communication than fisticuffs.

I don't get that vibe from him. Even when he "fights", it's far more re-directing a foe's attack than fighting (or just stealing his weapon). That's cool in it's way, but I'm thinking more of the off-the-battlefield chatter Dove provides, where he puts the "bleeding heart" in liberal when I described him as such.

Together, Hawk and Dove make an okay team in combat, but I distrust starry eyed idealists as much as... whatever your favorite description for the current administration might be.

ETA: I just watched it again, and I have to say that I'm really worried about the way the team as a whole is going.

When WW tracks down Hawk & Dove at the bar, her first words are, "You didn't answer your summons." Then she growls at them, "Out! Now!"

To me, this is a little to 'Kingdom Come'-ish for me. I loved KC as a story for an alternative future in the DCU, but I do *not* want to see the JLA (JLU? JLX? wtf is it now, anyway?) that fascistic in the modern day, unless it's from some goatee-wearing alternate universe.

[QUOTE]I don't really see Dove as a "pansy".[QUOTE]

Really? 'Cause he came across as one to me. I assume Hawk learned how to fight to a) keep him alive and b) redirect the urge to crush anything just to make Dove shut the hell up.

[QUOTE] He'd much rather end a conflict with communication than fisticuffs.[/QUOTE]

"Justice Leage, Now W/ 99% Less Action - Gently Reasoning with Giant Robots, Walking Undead, And Galaxy Swallowing Evil Our Specialty!"

Well the point of the episode that not every problem can be solved by punching it into submission. Which was the case with the Annhilator. It was powered by anger and agression, so the way to stop it was to simply choose not to fight it.

As for Dove's attitude, it takes a lot of strength to stick to your convictions despite others trying to force you to think their way.

Who tried to force Dove to think their way? If anything, he was the one evangelizing his beliefs all over the place.

I got the point of the episode, I was just bored to tears. Oooh, violence is not the answer. Got it. Thanks for the fortune cookie, DC. Now back to bashing things, mmmkay?

The guys in the bar who were ready to pound his head in for thinking differently than they did perhaps?

I agree. It takes a great deal of strength and courage to stand by your convictions. Go Dove.

For some people, their convictions are: "You hit it till it breaks". And God love WW for it : )

But here's my thing: Isn't WW supposed to be "Ambassador of Peace to Man's World"? Wasn't the whole WW mythos supposed to be to show the Man's world the ways of peace? And violence as last resort?

Seems she thinks the last resort comes pretty quickly : )

And God love her for it.

Yet another "Kingdom Come"-ism creeping into the fascist JLU. Diana was exiled from Themyscira because Man's world had changed her, not vice versa.

See I'm torn. I mean I don't want it to become Kingdom Come'ish....

But that being said I love that they are at least TRYING to make WW the badass that she is in the comics. I mean watching Superfriends which I love for all it's cheesiness, WW was never able to really show her strength. Part of that is because the characters weren't allowed to hit each other. But they could have shown her holding up a building or something.

So I like seeing tough, take charge, super strong WW. But where's the line I guess.

Eh. No powers, no real threat, and we don't know how long he'd been irritating them. (Who starts philosophical debates with strangers in bars, anyway?)

If they had just robbed an old lady, and then Dove walked up and said, "y'know, I don't think that was so morally sound, you guys." I would be all right with it.

But as it was, they were really just guys. And he has super-speed. Why didn't he just write an impassioned essay about violence, backwards, on their foreheads in indelible ink, so they'd have to read it every time they looked in the mirror for the next week or so? And then just skip off?

And now Dove is the Dad in the anti-drug commercials. He just keeps getting lamer and lamer. (Totally kidding. Parents. The anti-drug.)

It seemed to me the only reason the goons in the bar wanted to fight was because Dove didn't share the same views as the goons. Small-minded people tend to have a "You're either with us, or against us" mentality.

If someone asks you a question about a subject, are you going to say what they want to hear just to fit in, or will you say what you believe in? Dove says what he believes in, despite the fact it may piss somebody off.



No, the point was that violence isn't always the answer. There are times when Dove's way is appropriate, and other times when Hawk's way is.

IMO, this half-hour format is not working at all. It seems they are trying to cram too much into the new eps. I was very bored with this week's episode. I just couldn't care about what was going on with Dove and Hawk. I thought York and Asner did great. I really like their voices. I hope we do see Ares and Hephaestus again this season. I like it when the show deals with the world of the respective heros. I have to say that WW looked HOT in her blue jeans. I hope the season gets better. BTW, does anyone know where to send e-mail or regular mail to the people behind the show? Thanks.

Well, considering that Dove is the most annoying character in the history of this show, I can only suggest that I see nothing wrong with wanting to beat him up, for any reason.


There are ways to say what you believe in without pissing people off. And Dove definitely strikes me as an, "I'm right, you're wrong, and I'm going to keep pestering you until you agree with me," type of guy.

I'm anti-war, but c'mon they couldn't come up with anything less cliché than war mongering rednecks sitting in a bar? Most of my family is pro-war and none of them have tried to beat me up for disagreeing with them.

Self-Righteousness is not limited to 'liberal' folk. I've heard plenty of conservative and religious folk with the: "I'm right and you're wrong, so there!" attitude that I would like to stomp the crap out of.

And how do we know Dove was 'pestering' anyone? What's the difference between pestering and trying to argue your point?



Great for you, but not everyone can have calm and rational discussions about some subjects. That was my point about 'Small-Minded' people. And I've had my share of run-ins with them.

As much as I enjoy seeing new superheroes (new to me, anyway), I'm really missing Jonn, HG and Flash right about now.

The ep was ok. I did love Michael York and Ed Asner as Ares and Hephaestus, and hearing Jason Hervey and Fred Savage again brought back my Wonder Years love. :-)

Did I ever say it was?


We don't know what he said ... I was simply giving my impression of the character. The fact that he was willing to kidnap the two leaders and force them to talk doesn't really help my opinion of him.


If the other person isn't interested in debating a point with you, and yet you persist, then you're pestering them.

This thread is so much more interesting than the episode was, heh. More dramatic tension in the air!

Seriously . . . that was boring as hell and it really did feel anvillicious to me. I mean, I suppose Ares was in-character enough mythologically (except for being civil to his brother) but his symbolic little rant about how humans were made to kill each other went on just a little bit too long. Hello crazy. His creepy eyes weren't helping.

Well, now that Hawk and Dove are out of the way, we can now have an appearance of the far more cooler creation by Steve Ditko for DC:THE QUESTION!

I've held off commenting about JLU until I'd watched a few episodes, but ever since I'd read about the new direction they were taking this show, I was concerned. Everything that I was worried about in terms of the show has unfortunately happened. The half hour length makes it virtually impossible to develop a half-way decent plot. The show and the resolution to the threat of the week is much too rushed. I liked Seasons 1 and 2 because you really needed a one-hour format to take time to not only develop the story, but also to develop the characters. I thought this was going rather well in Season 2, especially near the end with Green Lantern and Hawkgirl.

I don't particularly care for the new format and all these new superheroes. As far as I'm concerned, they're second tier. Yes, I know from reading the comics occasionally that there are many Justice League members, but the original lineup worked best. Couldn't they just bring in a new character occasionally to join in the mission? All these new characters means less time for the originals (which I really liked). I really miss Hawkgirl and after 4 episoders where each of the original team members has been featured at least twice, there has been no Flash. Where the hell is he? He's my favorite and I've always appreciated the humor he brought to the show.

Count me among those who would also like to know who to write to regarding the direction of this new version of the show.

Also, as its been noted, the new theme song sucks and showing scenes from the episode in the opening is just wrong.

Why it sucked: Written by 7th Heaven writer Ron Zimmerman.

Doesn't he write comics? Or is that another Zimmerman?

I found out that one ep will be written by Gail Simone...I am so amped. I knew her before she became a breakout writer...currently, she's finishing up The Legion and kicking ass with Birds of Prey.

Clocksomper24: no wonder. That explains so much.

Damaris56 There is a two part slated for Nov. Ben Browder will be one of the voices. It has Batman, WW and GL going into the past and future. In the future they are suppose to hook up with Future Batman.

I can't agree enough with having them stop showing clips of the show while the credits roll.

Guys, I'm not sure if I'm using the spoiler tags right. If I'm wrong let me know. I don't want to run afoul of Glark or anyone else. Thanks

Yep, BoP (the comic) rules and the episode in question is a double datewith Green Arrow and Black Canary and Huntress and The Question. Amy Acker from Angel is supposedly voicing the Huntress. No word on Canary yet.

And I know a lot of old time Teen Titans (comic version) fans like Hawk and Dove for nostagia sake but they always seemed bland and boring to me. There are a lot of cooler DC characters (like members of the JSA for instance) they could have wasted an episode on instead.