Damn, thanks for the info about The Flash, Zerowing! I wished we could get a chance to see a 1/3 of his true power! :crossing fingers:

Agree about WW..again. I think this episode clearly showed that WW is really no match for Supes. Their strength are miles apart. Also I believe WW isn't invincible to bulletsand stuff? I believe those things literally bounces off old Supes!

In a recent issue of Flash they did the whole Supes/Flash: Who is Faster thing again and Wally managed to beat him. Also in the comics Wally is able to do ridiculous stuff with his speed powers like vibrate through solid objects, travel through time (well Wally hasn't done that but his two predescesors both have) and I'm pretty sure if he wanted to he could make toast just by staring reeeeal hard at some bread. The writers seem to be very flexible with his powers.



Yes that is true. Maybe they depowered him so he wouldn't be so formidable. If you want to get some good stuff with the Shade in it pick up the collected volumes of Starman. He plays a big part in there.

And yet he still has problems beating a telepathic monkey and a guy with an ice gun ... You have to love comic book logic.


Comic Flash's max speed is 99.9999999% light speed, he could run faster, but if he reaches Light Speed his body is 'absorbed into the Speed Force' (a sort of heaven for Speedsters) and he either ceases to exist or gets sent skipping through time. He can also 'give' speed to others to make them faster or steal speed to slow them down. In addition he has the ability to vibrate his molecules, making himself intangible, and he can use this ability to cause anything he passes through to explode (or not).

Comic Superman is almost as fast as Wally, he's probably 99% light-speed. And, yes, it does often make Flash redundant or force Supes to 'forget' to use his speed. (Comics Supes can also fly around is space without a spacesuit or air supply, since his can hold his breath for months).

They had to race in the comics too, and it was rather close.

So yeah, I rather enjoy all the more 'realistic' versions in the JL cartoon. It actually provides a reason why they would need to team up to protect the world.


She wasn't de-powered in any storyline sense, she just got smacked around like she was a complete wimp until Superman was able to wake up and save the day.

Mentioning the Shade makes me think of Ebon from "Static Shock". He's a total shadow and has mad powers. Of course, the writers on that show have never made him a competent villain, which is pretty annoying. I'd love to see a villain like that be able to let loose.

There was also the two-parter Eclipsed, where it was the Flash, with the help of the Green Lantern, who was sent to clear up that wormhole thingy on the sun. Had Superman the necessary speed, I'm sure they would have just sent him instead.

Well yeah, but that episode isn't exactly a bastion of logic ... Since GL was able to create the path for Flash to run on and was able to keep it ahead of Flash, he should've been able to do it himself.

Damn Monkeys! I knew they'd make us pay for dressing them in tutus.

To be fair to Wally, Gorilla Grodd is a telepathic ape, not monkey. And we all know they are much harder to defeat than their telepathic monkey brethren. So cut Wally some slack, eh?

Ah, does anyone remember the all-ape issue of Secret Origins? Good times...

Ohhhhhhh, I did not know that.

In that case, Get your minds off of Wally YOU DAMN DIRTY APES!

Yeah, it was unnerving – and I say that because we as the audience know what really happened that night to the Wayne family. We know that Bruce isn’t a child anymore, and it’s his adult self that is re-living this moment through a child’s eyes. And seeing it in black and white was also a little creepy too.

I like how this whole episode was done; though there were some elements missing from the comic, it still was great (well, how much can they put into a 25 minute cartoon?). And Wonder Woman fighting Mongol was great! She kept him at bay (at least for a while) though it was so obvious that she was slowly losing.



DC states it a few times. It’s in her DC bio as well. But it’s open to interpretation because there are some comic showings that just don’t make it appear that WW is the 2nd strongest DC character. It all depends on who’s writing her.



Yeah he’s unbelievable in the comics! But I think the cartoon needed to power all the characters down: DC has a habit of making their heroes uber-powerful to the point of being just plain insane.



Hey monkeys are tough! Take Curious George for example – he gets in all kinds of trouble yet he always prevails. That’s one tough monkey.

So any spoilers on upcoming episodes? Which new characters are showing up?

I have a question for you Lantern scholars: Can Star Sapphire make constructs with her powers or is she straight up beams like Mr. Stewart? I have been wondering about this for a while now...

GL isn't limited to beams, I figure he just doesn't see the point to making boxing gloves when a straight up shot of beamy ass kick'n is all that's needed.

I just got a book about Bruce Timm (Modern Masters) it's a book length interview and he was asked about why John doesn't get too creative with his power ring and Timm said why make a gun that shoots lasers when you can just use the ring itself to shoot lasers. John's kinda no-nonsense type. But that they would try and have him at least make giant green boxing gloves or something once and awhile. Pretty much what mrow said.

I didn't mean to say that John can only shoot beams, just that it's what usually does. I know he can do whatever he imagines. I'm wondering what Star Sapphire's limits are. She seems like a very interesting character. I would like to see more of her.

Well, I don't know about constructs, but I speculate that since she can envelope her body in a protective energy shell she probably can make 3-dimensional shapes with her powers. Unless I'm wrong.

Holy crap, what a great ep. That was hilarious!

I LOVED this ep!

GL: "Boy your girlfriend really is bossy!"
Bats: "Shut Up"

WW: "I changed my mind. I'll go with Bruce"
Supes: "What's the big deal"
GL: "Boy for someone with like 50 types of vision, you sure are blind!"

Loved WW biffing Supes in the back of the head and the "I'm telling!!"

And the baby beast? sooooooooo cute.

WW: "You ok, tough guy?"
Bats: "Let me go! I'm fine!"

Although Bats dissing WW at the end? Not cool.

Yeah that was pretty good. I don't think I was into it though until Baby Etrigan showed up. Plus it was nice to see John use his ring in more creative ways.

Man, that episode had no right being that great.

I was all set to be dissappointed and I just loved it so freaking much.So did they start the voice work right when the regular tv season was at it's busiest? The lack of Flash and Martian Manhunter is getting to me.

Then he pulls his cape over his shoulders then walks off. I was in stitches.


I really wanted to see power ring lawn mowers.

Poor Mordred. He started out in diapers and ended up in diapers.

Best episode yet (that is since this Unlimited stuff started)!

I loved everything about it right down to the actor's voices. During the eppie, I tried to figure out who did the voices for WW...it was Dakota Fanning, my favorite little girl in H-wood.

As for some of the best lines of the eppie:



I thought the same thing, but Batman's response was hilarious and soo cute!

I found any and everything Kid GL said to be some of the funniest lines in the episode!

Only complaint, I didn't want Mordred to be THAT old, I wanted him to stay the 20 something Aquamanesque inspired guy.

Too much for me. Sorry...but between John opting for Kyle Rayner's "crab face" mask and baby Etrigan...oy. Like somebody slammed "World Without Grown-Ups" and "Sins of Youth" together.

Mordred...dumbass. Seriously...what a freakin' dumbass. Have fun with the Depends, fool.

ETA: I recognized Copperhead and Cheetah. I think the other two were Blockbuster (Batman/Nightwing Villian) and KGBeast (Batman villian). Am I close?

This was one hell of a funny episode!

Who'd have thought GL used to have such an imagination? The snarking between the four of them was so dead-on for the characters and LOL funny too, especially GL calling the relationship between Bats and WW.

Morgan was surprisingly calm for being betrayed by her own son. Strange that. Can't say the ending disappointed either.

Awwww! Baby Etragan was so cute! The grown-up version brought the funny and not the angst for once too.

It was kind of sad how Bats commented that he hasn't been a kid since he was 8. Appropiate, but sad.

Maybe this JLU cartoon won't be so bad after all!

ETA: Lantern7: I thought that guy was Bane for a minute there, but Bane's thing is pumped-up muscles.

It sort of looked like Blockbuster so I guess they're going with the dumb version if that's who it was.

I think that was the KGBeast though. I've only seen him in the Nightwing No Man's Land story when he was in prison sans mask and machine gun arm, so I'm not sure.

I thought it was funny that, I assume because girls mature faster than boys, Wonder Woman was the tallest kid. Her response to that fact was great. I liked all the kids voices, the actors did a good job.

Baby Etrigan needs a change, "This looks like a job for Superman."

\

That was definitely the KGBeast. Robin (Tim Drake) took him down by himself relatively early in his career, if memory serves. Definitely before the Knightfall business, in any case.

I think Batman's last line was entirely appropriate: his childhood ended early and tragically, so going back to that is probably just another painful reminder. It does make me wonder how many among the core League know about this. Superman definitely knows, and I'm guessing WW knows based on her reaction. Still, it's not something I can see him as just bringing up in conversation, and maybe the other Leaguers didn't automatically go look up Bruce Wayne's bio after they found out his ID.

I did like that Mordred twist: there was something like this in Greek mythology where a guy was granted eternal life but not eternal youth, and ended up a grasshopper. I'll just assume Mordred doesn't turn into an insect, of course. :)

It's too bad there was no Flash, although if he were in there I'm betting he'd be almost exactly the same.

This episode was ass! I'm still confused at what the hell Timm and Co are smoking at this point. I think Cartoon Network has his balls so tight the guy can't even breath without asking for permission.

Last week episode was so-so and this was on par as being the worst episode of JL/JLU ever! But I'll save the 'worse ever bit' becuase I have a feeling there more donkey doo around the corner for JLU this year!

I'll admit GL was the best thing about this episode but it would've been so much better to have The Flash and MM in this w/o Batman/WW and all the unnecessary fluffling. Timm and Co need to let it died.

This episode for me was the 1st defining Jump The Shark moment of JL! There's sure to be more!

Thankfully there was no Flash this episode! I like the guy, but the four had enough trouble wrangling all those kids. They didn't need an immature 8-year-old with super speed. The immature adult with super speed is bad enough. *L*

ETA: Although, with all the new heroes around, it might have been interesting to see this episode from the POV of some of the others. Say Green Arrow, Supergirl, this Question guy I've been reading about here (never heard of him before this), and maybe Etragan and Martian Manhunter (since they have history with Morgan and Mordred). That would have been interesting.

Does anyone have a good site/thread for discussing the new Firestorm comic series that launched, what happend to Ronnie Raymon, the original Firestorm, and the new books' tie-in to Identity?
I'd appreciate it.

Except for Flash and GL, do the other leaguers know his secret identity? I think out of curiousity they would have looked up Bruce Wayne's bio if they had not heard of him already.


I can just picture him making noises at superspeed by sticking his hand under his armpit.

I'll have to respectively disagree with you there. Like someone else mentioned, Flash is already too much of a kid for him being youthified to have much of an impact on the audience. Also, I think that J'onn is too alien for him to work as a child, at least for the visual I think this episode was going for. Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman and Green Lantern looked like kids dressed up as superheroes for halloween, while I figure J'onn would just look like a smaller version of himself.

Does anyone else think there was a connection between the statues in the beginning and the Cthulu rip off (Ixthultu?) the JL fought last season in the Dr. Fate episode?

I'd like to see Flash as a kid, but that's probably just because I'm an Impulse fan, heh. It'd be like the best of both worlds!

I agree that J'onn wouldn't work, though. He's alien enough as it is--as a child he wouldn't really have any idea of how to function on Earth, would he?

. . . Although, if he speaks telepathically (which is the case, right? I know he moves his mouth, but in the cartoon-based comic series he gets different word bubbles to indicate this), would his voice still be really deep? Now that I would like to see.

Well unfortunately, due to a storm passing through my area, I lost my satellite signal for 10 minutes and missed the last part of the episode.

However, from what I saw I liked.

The most interesting part to me was the fact that Wonder Woman acted the most like her adult-self. I guess to emphasize how girls are more mature than boys.

I presume Morrigan just gave them child bodies rather than revert them backwards to their child selves, because Clark (Superman) didn't have superpowers when he was young child. His powers only started to emerge when he was in his late teens.

I would have liked to see what J'onn was like as a child.

Only because as a child he hadn't had thirty-odd years of exposure to a yellow sun; since it's still his body regardless of apparent age, I figure the solar energy still has to be in there.

Yes, but I what I said about Morrigan reverting them backwards, I meant that literally, as in "turning back the clock" and reverting them back into their child selves. In which case Clark would be powerless.

But it appears that Morrigan just gave them child bodies that had the same abilities as their adult ones. Especially since Batman seemed to have the same fighting skill as he had as an adult. He just wasn't as strong.

I seem to remember a young (three or four-ish) Clark lifting up Pa Kent's tractor with one arm, so I think he would still have powers at age 8.

Anyway, I'm liking the new JLU and I can't wait for the Question episode, especially since I want to mentally compare him to Rorscach. I think my main complaints - why have so many members when you're just going to focus on three or four? what about some continuity? let's get some bigger storylines! - can be easily solved with one change: return it to two half-hour episodes. That was the perfect size - cartoons are rarely an hour, but for JL it worked. And if they don't want to have two half-hour episodes, have one one-hour episode. I liked them much better when the stories were bigger.

Oh, and favorite line: Etrigan, being held up by Wonder Woman: "Mommy?"

Was that in the cartoon series? I don't remember that happening.

In the Post-Crisis Superman comics, Clark's powers didn't begin to emerge until he was around 16-17 years old. And even then he only had super-strength, durability and speed. He didn't learn he could fly until a little later, and the heat-vision/x-ray vision didn't come until he was in his 20's.

In Superman: TAS Clark's powers didn't emerge until his teen years (as already stated by another poster further up) Not a bad episode. They could've really gone overboard but, thankfully, they didn't. Word on the "Your girlfriend sure is bossy" line.

Superhero's being turned into kids? Eh? Not my cup of tea. IMO, there's no real excuse for their personalities to change so much ... They still, apparently, have their own minds a memories, why are they acting like little kids just because they're in little bodies? Because it's cute? Bleh.

Mordred has 'the source of all magic' and was powerful enough to send every adult in the world to another dimension, transform the planet in to his kingdom, and yet he couldn't knock down a gate? He should be able to wipe out the Justice Kids with a thought.

That was in the very first comic (I had a replica). I haven't even tried to keep up with the retcons, though, so that may not be canon even for the comics anymore.

The only interesting thing to me was the continuation of the Batman/Wonder Woman pairing which has never been a thing in the comics until recently. It's always been Supes and Wondy(and that's only been post-CrisisEven though they already kissed in the Hawkmen movie, it's WW that's pushing for something to happen. Diana seems to be another girl who's into the whole dark, brooding, troubled badboy. Much like Jean Grey's attraction to Wolverine or Buffy to Angel. When Bats says he "hasn't felt like a child since he was eight." Diana looks like she wanted to comfort him and take away all his pain.

I though she looked more like she wanted to smack him for killing her silver lining. Besides the whole "my parents died" thing, I think Bruce was totally reminded that he's the weakling of the pack we he doesn't have his imtimidation to rely on (the "hey! Wait for me!") and was pissy because of it. I love him.

You know, that actually bugged me a bit too. I was willing to suspend my belief for the duration of the episode, but do you really think that getting stuck in a kids body would bring back the feeling of being a kid? Would the biology of being a kid be enough to get you back into that mindset?

With a light episode like this, I really don't care about the logicistics of the situation. Was there a good reason for Etrigan to be there in baby form? Probably not. Is there any sort of explanation of John Stewart needing glasses suddenly? No. If one can asume every hero was trapped in that nether world, why didn't Morgan turn to someone like Dr. Fate to help her? No good reason (though I don't think a child Dr. Fate would be as interesting as the others). There was tons of logistical problems in this episode, but I just took it as goofy fun and enjoyed it.

Yeah, when GI Joe did it back in the 80s, Clint, Mainframe and Lady Jaye didn't revert to acting like children.
Hell, they came busting out of their truck on skateboards, but still packin' paint guns to attack Cobra.
They were just grownups in kids' bodies.
And they still saved the day.
Yo Joe.

I have to wait a while before I see this. My boyfriend recorded it for me and watched it and said he liked it, but I had to work.

Stupid work.

You're right, of course, but I could fanwank that Etrigan was pissing Morgan off ("want to go back? fine, troll-boy!") and that John Stewart needed glasses because he thought he needed glasses. I mean, even as a kid, he doesn't have a great imagination. My eight year old cousin has a much finer grasp of surreal fight manuevers.

Can your cousin think of a freakin lawnmower?


....










yeah. I thought so :P


A few things really bug me about this episode.

The biggest being that Mordred is roughly a teenager. Static and Gear are most likely too old but several other superheros were young enough to get involved.

My second gripe comes from the the predictable but seriously dumb logic that all the kids would immediately rejoice seeing their parents or other adults being disintegrated before their very eyes.

That is going to raise some measure of concerns no matter how young and self absorbed a child is.

My last complaint is Mordred sucked as King but then again Morgana was never really interested in raising him to have power :p

I found it interesting and amusing that they revealed that Supes has a crush on WW.

Overall this was a lot of fun to watch.


FYI the scene of little clark lifting a tractor is from the first Superman movie.

They revealed that Supes has a crush on WW? Did I miss it? Did I miss it because I was so blinded by the crush WW has on Bats...and vice versa, though he wouldn't readily admit it?

ITA. I just sat back and enjoyed it. And yeah, I 'awwww'ed when Baby Etrigan came out of the cave. He was so cute!

Like some others have already mentioned, I also liked how WW seemed the most mature of the JL Kids (although she WAS rather bossy), and thought all the child voiceover actors did great work. I can't wait to see the ep again. :-)