Question to any die-hard fan. Did psycho Amazon Aresia ever appear again in the series beyond her first appearance? Or was the "Fury" two-parter her sole appearance in the series?

I think that was it. I never saw her in JLU.

Then she really died in the explosion? That sucks. Behind Grodd, she was my favorite JL villain.

I'm intrigued as to why -- and I'm not trying to be rude here; having read these boards and similar threads, you're talking about a story that may be the most disliked of the entire series. (IMO, only Metamorphosis was worse.) Usually it's cited as Exhibit A in how they got Diana all wrong (an otherwise normal woman being able to match someone gifted by Olympus?).

As far as to whether she actually perished -- explosions are notoriously easy to escape in animated series -- but as she and the whole sequence were never mentioned again, perhaps she wound up in an alternate reality?

Simply put, I had no idea or preconceived notion what any of the main characters were supposed to be like, other than Batman and Superman (since I'd watched each of their series long before JL), so I pretty much rolled with any characterization of the rest of the League members. That helped me enjoy a lot of the episodes. At least those I watched (with the "Fury" and "Brave and the Bold" two-parters being at the top of my list).

I liked Fury a lot as well, though I'm fond of any episode with Star Saphire. I wish they'd used her more.

Well, she did show up again in the comic book that was associated with the show. And she used some sort of mind control sound that put all the guys except Flash (who was in drag at the time) under her spell.

I liked the episode mostly for the personality clash between Diana and Hawkgirl.

Those two always were great together.

Anyone have any thoughts about the Wonder Woman DTV animated movie?

Personally, I felt that if they took the exact same script, used most of the same cast, and made a live-action movie, it'd be the next Iron Man.

The upcoming Green Lantern movie looks interesting, too. Basically Training Day in space, with Christopher Meloni as Hal Jordan, Victor Garber as Sinestro, and Michael Madsen as Kilowog.

I thought it was one of DC's better animated movies. Much better than Superman: Doomsday or Gotham Knight, slightly behind New Frontier. I was surprised how violent it was, and the story definitely could have translated to a live action movie easily.

Green Lantern looks good. Can't wait for that one.

I liked the WW DTV, it was well done and Keri Russell,who can do no wrong in my book, carried the voice off well; even though i'm used to Susan Eisenberg as my WW voice of choice.

I do agree samsnee that most of these dtv movies from DC and Marvel would work well as live action treatments, specifically WW, Iron Man, and Dr Stranget dtv movies.

I think their scenes rivaled Green Lantern and Flash's as my favorite ones. Loved Hawkgirl calling Wonder Woman (and basically all Amazons) out on their anti-men code.

No jokes about how the two women couldn't stand each other while all of the guys got along well (more or less, anyway)?

I never got the vibe they couldn't stand each other at all.

Yeah, their only real problem was after Hawkgirl betrayed them and even then Diana got over it and more or less considered her a friend again. Honestly, I'm a little sad they didn't explore that further, though I'm not sure what I'd drop to make room for it.

I would've dropped some of the newer, weaker characters in JL: Unlimited for more time with the original 7 we got in the first two seasons of JL (okay maybe not Batman, given that he got the longest-running single-character series of his own, intruded--though awesomely--on Superman's series two or three times, plus got wrapped up in Batman Beyond. He had plenty of exploration. I could've done with more of the girls--heck, that includes a bit more Lois in JL, come to think of it--and maybe some J'onn. They could write some really heartstring-tugging stuff for him--see "Comfort & Joy"--when they really wanted to). I wouldn't give up The Question for anything, but there was some time wasted on dead weight. It was cool to discover some of the characters I've seen on DC covers and heard bits about through comic book reader osmosis, but since I'm not a DC comics-reading guy (unless you count Vertigo), I didn't really appreciate the geek-out-worthy cameos and full integrating introductions of some of those characters. Not like a DC fan would, therefor I would've rather had more time with the guys introduced in the two seasons of JL.

It became a very arc-y show after the first season of JL, so I guess I can't fault the series for some of its more divergent episodes, especially in the JLU phase (and many were fun or high quality, to be fair). Actually, this has nothing to do with more focus on the lesser-exposed characters (particularly the women and their relationships, as mentioned), but it's still a shame that they didn't embrace the franchise's history very much, if at all, in JL Season 1.

I'm actually very glad that they expanded the cast so much, it meant there was bound to be a hero for everyone somewhere in the mix. And to be honest, like half the original seven were pretty boring. GL's only interesting becaus eof his relationship with Hawkgirl (seriously, he does nothing of note without her, aside from the Metamorpho episode, even the one where he's on trail could have been anyone of sufficient power) he's the play by the rules and shoot lasers at things guy, couldn't even use his ring in an interesting way most of the time. I like J'onn but he's so underused he's almost not even worth having. Batman's had all the plot and character development he needs and every episode that focusses on him is pretty much just wasted time that could have been used to develop one of the others, fortunately they didn't focus on him all that much though I do have one major complaint I'll get to further down. Superman also already had his own series but since he's a team player and actually has new places he can go he's worth some focus time. It's Flash, Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl that really needed some focus as they were newly introduced and actually given personalities. Hawkgirl got plenty of love so she's fine, though asI mentioned earlier some exploration of her relationships with the other league members would be nice. Diana and Wally? Sinfully underused. Flash got, what, two and a half episodes focussing on him in the entire series (Flash and Substance, Great Brain Robbery and We Are Legion)? Diana? She's supposed to be one of the big three, the most powerful woman on the planet and greatest female hero on Earth and what do they do with her? Basically nothing. Early on they gave her some plots but aside from whipping out the Amazons or a God every now and then she barely had any character development. Her comic villains don't give a damn about her, Giganta and Cheeta couldn't care less, Circe wanted vengence on her mother, and she went to Ares and Hades instead of them coming after her. I didn't mind her being the nice, sensable one most of the time but that didn't mean she had to stay in the background, though i did like whenever a major fight broke out Diana was always shown to be the most competent/dangerous, taking down far more than any of the others.

As I mentioned I have only one major complaint about Batman's use in the show and that is Epilogue and even then it's only a complaint because of what was supposed to happen and not what did happen. This was originlly supposed to be the final wpisode of the series and I never would have forgiven them for it. They were going to waste the final episode of Justice League kissing Batman's ass which would have made it the worst finale they've ever done. Now, I understand that Batman is what started it all and ending with him would have been a nice touch that brought things full circle, that's fine. The problem I had with it is that it's the finale for Justice League and it focusses on ONE character. Justice League had at least SEVEN characters that deserved a sendoff and most of them didn't even get to make an appearance or get a mention, and that's not even counting the other secondary characters they'd been building up (Black Canary, Huntress, Green Arrow, Question, Super Girl). The entire message of the episode is that Batman is the best hero ever and the most important of them all and god forbid we ever not have one, especially not one that wasn't at least part Bruce (okay, I don't really care that terry is really is biological son but it kind of messes up the message that all Batman needs is heart and dedication, not special genetics) and screw everyone else. And what makes it worse? They waste a lot of time on pointless fantasies that they never explain were just fantasies and serve no actual purpose so everyone ends up confused and valuable screentime is wasted. Instead of Terry quitting the League fantasy why not a scene future League with GL and Hawkgirl visiting their son? Instead of Terry fantasizing about dumping his girlfriend why not Batman and Wonder Woman deciding they should just stay friends? Why not skip the fantasy about Terry leaving old Bruce possibly dieing on the Batcave floor and give Flash and J'onn one last scene? Since it turns out to just be anouther episode it's fine but it would have been a horrible Justice League finale.

Oh, and I think I found an episode I could have done away with and inserted more Hawkgirl/Wonder Woman expansion, the stupid Hawk and Dive episode. I don't hate it but what was the point? Ares never does anything else and sure the Anihalator is a point for later but that could have still been involved. Hell, why not make Sheyera the reason Diana is so pissed off for that episode?

The JL/JLU Wonder Woman was fairly harsh and abrasive, which she was not in the comic, even after the reboot. I don't like the way they developed her character at all. I know I keep saying this, but JLU ruined what had been a pretty good cartoon series.

I dunno, I thought the Cadmus arc was well-executed and I enjoyed the Lex/Brainiac reveal. The main arc was strong, it introduced a few worthwhile new characters, and some of the standalone-type episodes were good. After that ep where Flash saved the day though...I don't think JLU Season 3 (or Justice League Season 5, if you like to look at JL/JLU as one thing) was all that necessary. But there was stuff to enjoy there too.

I think "Epilogue" was still a better finale than what was had (sorry, it was rushed and it was too cheese-tastic with them all running down the steps and toward the camera at the end. Was fine with the Darkseid/Lex anti-life equation ambiguity, but there were other things that felt unfulfilled or just not what I wanted out of a finale). But I've recommended to friends that they leave "Epilogue" as the final thing to watch, that it shouldn't be watched where it is on the DVDs when they borrow them. Finish off Justice League proper, then use that ep as it was intended, as an epilogue to the franchise (which yes, focuses solely on the Batman legacy, I can live with that given all we got of Superman and the League. They couldn't bring back Batman Beyond, so it was the only way to give Terry a proper send-off as well, so they had to use an ep of JLU for it).

I really thought that was going to be the finale. And it should've been.

Using the finale of one show to wrap up a previous show is a horrible move. It robs the fans of a proper sense of closure. If they wanted to give Batman Beyond a send off just set the episode in the Batman Beyond time and show us where everyone ends up, the revelantions about Terry and Bruce could still be there but use the episode to show the others as well.


I vastly prefer the finale we got, sure the last moment was cheesy but it was a nice closer showing the whole team as one and even gave Batman the last moment in a way that didn't take away from the others. All the main characters got their moments, even J'onn was finale given some development!


As to JLU ruining JL? I greatly disagree, the original two seasons are nice but very over rated. Season Two was a definite improvement over season one but it was still lacking. They had some very good episodes But a lot of the time it seemed they didn't know what to do with the full team so characters get neglected or misused or just plain left out for no explained reason like when J'onn or Diana is missing when they have no previously established place to go. Plus, as I mentioned in previous posts, they didn't even bother exploring the relationships they already had. At least with JLU they just teamed up whomever they wantyed for the episode and explored those characters. Plus with a broader cast they can do more stories as they can use whichever mix of powers and skills they'd need for a certain situation. And it was also nice to see how other heroes reacted to the Big Seven. The Seven still got their moments but there was really no reason not to expand the cast, they'd already brought Aquaman into the league, and he didn't even like them or give a damn about the rest of the world.

TimeMonkey said:


You're not wrong, they could've done a more inclusive "Epilogue", true. I didn't feel robbed of a proper sense of closure though. "Divided We Fall" and most of the stuff leading up to it was fantastic (except for viewers who hated the politics), so nothing was lacking for the team and their stories, IMO (except for more exploration of Diana and J'onn, really, but that's a problem with the series as a whole, not the finale or epilogue). I just looked at "Epilogue" as an extra piece of the story that was making up for the fact that they weren't able to wrap up Batman Beyond in a satisfying manner, didn't concern me that it happened under a Justice League opening (it's the same franchise/continuity, it's all good). So many other shows, animation or live-action, end up screwed over due to cancellation and Batman Beyond really didn't get a proper send-off ("Unmasked" ? What was that ?). It didn't have to just live with that non-ender, because Bruce Timm ran all these shows, hence what we got in "Epilogue".

To be fair, I was watching all these on DVD (aside from having seen most of Batman: TAS when it aired), I knew from looking up viewing orders online what "Epilogue" was intended for, was prepared for it to only be focused on that, and treated it as BB, essentially (though you could argue that, with Amanda Waller's involvement, it's still a quasi-JL ep, plot-wise). I guess it might've been more upsetting/disappointing if you watched the series live and didn't know ahead of time that it wasn't going to involve the League. Or if you hated BB, or Terry.

I know there's some resentment over the writers treating Batman as god too, he was given priority or got to be Mr. fix-all sometimes, it was apparent who most of the writers loved writing for most...but they just did such a damn good job with him and I loved B:TAS and Batman Beyond (okay, not so much the highschool-focused Smallville-ish eps that overcrowded the second season especially, but there was a whole lotta good there too) and the whole throughline of that character's arc, I can forgive them for making him the bookend of the animated franchise. The stuff with Old Bruce and Terry felt genuine, it was touching, it worked for me. It's more than you'll ever get out of the neverending comic books, the guts to commit to the withering and conclusive end of the character.

More understandable is fan frustration over Wolverine, though I suppose DC needs their overexposed grit character to sometimes jeer at too when it's felt that he's taking away from the other characters.



I don't think JLU ruined JL either, but I do think Season 2 was a vast improvement over Season 1 and for me was the gold standard of the JL/JLU run. "Eclipsed" wasn't anything special aside from being a little creepy and allowing Flash some focal eps and I can't remember whether I liked "The Terror Beyond", but otherwise I don't remember any bad 2-parters. I mean something like "Hereafter" was better than "Hearts & Minds", but I still enjoyed "Hearts & Minds".

As for missing characters during certain eps...I just chalked it up to the writers requiring us to fanwank a reason why they were absent (and you still had to do the same thing for JLU, even moreso with such a large cast with a huge array of powers that would've come in handy during certain events). They did occasionally mention why a character was absent in the first two seasons.

I have no problem with Epilogue focussing on Batman, it's just the total disregard for everyone except Hawkgirl in the episode that irks me. They could have been added to so many scenes, didn't even need speaking roles, and all would have been fine. Like when Waller is saying she'd worked witha lot of amazing people during her time as liason to the League why not show her with Diana, Superman, GL, Flash and J'onn before switching to the Batman is getting older part? That would have been everyone and the epsiode could have remained exactly the same.

I really wouldn't have had any problem with Epilogue being the final episode, since the previous episode already did all the things you'd expect a finale to typically do.

I'm cool with never getting another minute of new content for this multi-series mega-franchise, but I wouldn't say no to the odd fill-in-a-gap direct-to-disc movie if done well. For a second, with the announcement of Superman/Batman: Public Enemies, I got excited about the description about the original cast returning for vocals (yes, even Clancy Brown as Lex, unlike in "Brainiac Attacks", not to mention Tim Daly instead of George Newburn for Clark). Bruce Timm being involved is par for the course, as I think he's been behind all the direct-to-DVD DC films so far, post-JLU, right ? (Superman: Doomsday and onward). Whatever it turns out to be (because yeah, even with vastly different animation--which I like, so far--it could end up being in-continuity despite Timm saying a while back that all these direct-to-DVDs would be standalones, even from eachother), it looks like it has promise.

I gotta get caught up, I haven't even seen Wonder Woman yet. And when does the Green Lantern one come out ?

The Titans animated film ("Teen" or otherwise) was scrapped, right ?

Green Lantern: First Flight comes out July 28th. I thought Wonder Woman was awesome....check it out ASAP, and yes Teen Titans was scrapped. Can't wait for Superman/Batman: Public Enemies! Previews look good so far.

I knew about the Superman/Batman movie, but I didn't know it was the original cast (including Tim Daly)! Sweet! :D

I've already got the Green Lantern one preordered.

From what I hear (and don't hold me to it), they only pushed back the Titans movie, in order to get their more established stars out there first. I hope they didn't drop it completely, though, 'cause I was looking forward to that one.

Chiming in one the Wonder Woman love. I was not expecting it to be really good. They did a great job of tying in all the mythology, making Wonder Woman a warrior, but also tying in that she is from a people that have truly embraced peace. I figured one or two pieces of what makes WW great would have been written out, but they managed to make it all work really well.

It gave me a lot of faith for Green Lantern.

I just got my WW DVD from Amazon (how ironic) last night, and I'm impressed. I just think it was too short and it seemed more like an episode of what should be a series. I also liked how the Amazons had different personalities (like the one who'd rather read than battle), feelings and emotions (one expressing how she wished she could start a family). The Amazons on JL were one-dimensional and all about fighting all the time. And I love how Hippolyta was actually a warrior herself in this series. In all other JL incarnations Hippolyta always came across as an older, less strong woman and more of a damsel in distress than Queen of the Amazons.

I watched WW last night, and really enjoyed it. They de-powered WW a little bit -- no flying, super strong but not Superman strong -- but I didn't mind, because they really captured her as a warrior. I was surprised at the level of violence -- right from the start we got people being killed in fairly brutal ways. By really hitting the "newcomer to man's world" note, they gave the movie a hook that WW often doesn't have. And the performances were all very nice -- I was especially impressed with Vickie Lewis and Keri Russell.

Can't wait to check out Green Lantern.

Green Lantern: First Flight is so so so good. Even better than Wonder Woman. It really has me so excited for the live action movie!! I would talk about it but I am not sure anyone wants to be spoiled...

Warner Home Video has announced that Superman: The Complete Animated Series will be released on DVD on November 24, 2009.
The full press release has been posted here

From the same article:

Best Buy (I dunno if it was exclusive to them, maybe other stores had it as well) did a Complete Series set of Superman already, but it was basically just Volumes 1 to 3 in a slipcase. It was dirt cheap too, timed to coincide with Superman Returns. This set's box will likely be fancier, though I don't know if they will make it as nice as the one for Batman: TAS (which I haven't got around to buying yet, even though it's the only piece of the DCAU I don't own, aside from The Zeta Project and Static Shock--might just wait to see if they go Blu-Ray for Batman:TAS). The only difference with this Superman:TAS set will be the extra disc that apparently focuses on Darkseid. Curious to see it, but not about to sell off my slipcased set and pay for a likely more expensive Complete set just to get that bonus disc.

Cool that they're planning on putting out Justice League. Already own it, but I'd buy it complete if it was offered. They'd probably be smarter to break it up as JL and JLU though, for those who didn't like the latter. To me it's all one thing though, and so is the entire franchise from B:TAS to Batman Beyond.

I liked Green Lantern ok, but I was surprised they didn't have more of a Hal Jordan backstory. New Frontier had a better one. Am really looking forward to Batman/Superman: Public Enemies.

I also am excited about Superman/Batman: Public Enemies. Especially because Tim Daly and Clancy Brown are back.

Timm said that they specifically didn't want to rerun his backstory since they'd just done that in New Frontier.

Justice League: The Complete Series streets November 10. From the sell sheet:

SRP for the set is $99.95.

Superman/Batman: Public Enemies first look - video with movie preview, interviews with cast and crew, behind the scenes etc.

Interesting, apparently the next DC DVD will be titled, Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths. Might this be that unproduced movie that would've bridged the gap between JL and JLU?

My guess would be that, as with Doomsday, The New Frontier, Public Enemies and the scrapped Judas Contract, CoTE will continue the trend of adapting classic print storylines, in this case, "Crisis on Earth-1/Crisis on Earth-2," the original Justice League/Justice Society crossover from August-September 1963.

ETA: Of course, I could be wrong.

I just watched Superman: Doomsday a couple of weeks ago, and really enjoyed it. I had no idea what the movie was about going into it, and when it became apparent that they were actually doing the death of Superman, I couldn't figure out how they were going to cram that entire plot into 75 minutes. I thought their solution was really elegant, and combining two of the new Supermen (the clone and the Last Son of Krypton) into one was very nice. And it was nice to have Lex as part of it -- in the original, he was kind of a side line character (and he had that horrible red hair -- I hated that version of Lex).

(I also saw the two Ultimate Avengers direct-to-video titles. The start to the first one was nice, and the overall effort was better than I normally expect from Marvel animation, but their stuff is still so much weaker and more juvenile than the DC stuff. I hope DC realizes how lucky they are to have the team they do.)

Superman: Doomsday was really entertaining, I loved it from start to finish except for Supes weird cheekbones. They were distracting.

Last night I watched Green Lantern: First Flight though and, damn it, it should not have that entertaining. The whole thing clicked, seeing more would in no way be a bad thing. And yet, I still cannot stand the Green Lantern comics.

Interview with writer Stan Berkowitz about the upcoming Superman/Batman: Public Enemies release.

Clancy Brown interview about Superman/Batman: Public Enemies posted at Comics Continuum. Some interesting questions and answers.
The most surprising is probably when he said that they recorded it twice, first only Clancy and Kevin Conroy, since Tim Daly had some conflict in his schedule and later, when Tim Daly came to do his part they decided to record their parts again, because they decided they sound better when they are doing it together, all three of them in the same room. It seems they had a lot of fun doing this stuff.

Thanks for the tips on Superman:Doomsday, WW & Green Lantern. I will check them out. I was a big fan of JL/U & Batman TAS but has been too busy to check out the one off movies

I'm not into comics, so knew little about WW outside of the Timmverse. But I thoroughly enjoyed the movie, particularly because they did focus on Diana being a warrior. I always appreciate a woman kicking ass and taking names. I didn't agree with the Amazons' initial misandric perspective at all, and I'm rather glad that Steve called Diana out on that. Perhaps it was overly simplified in the movie, but I thought it strange that Hippolyta would be all "Man! Bad! Blah!" because SHE made a poor choice of a lover. Not to mention the hypocrisy in that perspective when it was another woman who opened the door to more destruction by freeing Ares.

It was a lot more entertaining than Green Lantern, despite the graphic violence.

Superman/Batman Public Enemies Blu-ray review

Tim Daly interview about "Superman/Batman: Public Enemies" release.

It seems that DC Universe is going to do a sequel to Superman/Batman: Public Enemies:

source