"Comfort & Joy" (aka the normally-dreaded-on-television Christmas-themed ep)
Wow. I dunno if many viewers focused more on the odd bit of schmaltz than the damn good character bits and humor in this ep, but...damn.

They were able to include J'onn in the festivities, to great effect--I liked his two bits with the cat and it felt good to see him so welcomed in what looked and genuinely felt like an awkward situation to place him in. The season probably wouldn't have meant anything to Diana either (unless the Amazons have something that coincides on their calendars), but where was she in this ep ? Left alone while they're all gathered with friends and family ? (exception: Bruce, unless he got Tim and Alfred up in the Watchtower with him. Nice that they explained where Barbara and Kara were too with the skiing trip excuse) Where does Diana live anyway ? Watchtower ? An apartment somewhere ?

Every piece of the story was perfect and unique in its own way. Flash and the Ultra Humanite were sorta goofy, funny, but in the end as heart-warming as the rest (and I'm a huge fan of that villain, even though he's only used twice in the first two seasons). John and Shayera's was basically an awesome date story (snow fights, bar fights, falling asleep on him post-bar-fight and what an awesome detail with her reaching up and tracing her fingers around his lips).

There was even a part in this ep that got me to tear up a little. Big winner of an episode. The only single episode story in the first two seasons too, I guess necessitated by the finale being a three-parter.

"Wild Card"
Nice nod to Batman Beyond with the origin of the Royal Flush Gang. Maybe some of those are eventual parents or grandparents of some members of the BB version ? Or maybe they just recruit new members. Is the Royal Flush gang something that was invented for the cartoons, or is it rooted in the comics ?

Loved Harley punching Bats when he tried to pull his psych analysis trick on her, yet again, to turn her against The Joker. One of the potential best Batman-related details about this 2-parter is what's done to the Joker in the end and how it may've been the straw that broke the camel's back and caused him to come up with what he does to Tim in Return of the Joker. I can imagine that that was just the worst humiliation and punishment Batman had ever been the cause of (partly--'cause the punishment part was all Ace, really) and whenever and however he recovered from it...if this is indeed getting toward the end of Joker and it was his last appearance ? What happened to Tim must be coming up soon, even if it's never addressed or alluded to in JL and maybe even happened after the final episode of JLU.

I saw it coming, but the mace-as-defibrillator moment to get John's heart started back up was very cool.

Wow, the mask came off. I wasn't expecting to see her without it, not given how costume/uniform-happy this particular DCAU series is. I felt like a serious 'shipper during that scene (I think I am one at this point, for that couple). I rewound and re-watched twice, it's sad, I know. I'll have to think back some more, but GL/Hawkgirl might be the best handling of an attraction in the DCAU since Batman/Catwoman. It's almost like the writers were watching a lot of well-conceived and expertly-acted relationships portrayed on live action shows going on around the same time or just before in the mid-to-late `90s and learned from those how to do one on a cartoon, 'cause that just isn't seen very often on North American animated shows.

I don't have anything to say about "Starcrossed", it spoke for itself and I've read all the TwoP commentary from years ago in this thread way earlier. That entire fourth and final disc of Season 2 (and the last of the Justice League series proper) was pure gold.

The Royal Flush Gang is rooted in the comics and it was also in one of the previous Superfriends series. You haven't seen the last of the RFG in this series, they reappear...somewhat.

Thats always been my idea.

I wish we could have seen more of Ace. Her parting remark, "No where. I'm going no where." is just so damn titillating. I keep hoping that maybe she'll make an appearence in the JLU comic book. Nothing big that would take away from her appearence in "Epilogue", but just a little cameo would be nice.


First time I saw Killer Frost just standing around without really doing anything, I thought she was Livewire and they had just changed her look.

Really, Lori Petty made Livewire. She's part of the Superman Revenge Squad in "Hereafter" and thats all for her speaking parts in Jl/JLU right? And even then she didn't talk a lot but without Petty it was just...bleh.

Petty didn't do Livewire in JL/JLU. It was the actress who voiced Hawkgirl that did Livewire. I don't know if they couldn't get her, or maybe b/c the role was so minimal, but they decided to recast her for that, which could make since cost-wise. Most of the lesser background characters that didn't have large roles were covered by existing actors. Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl's voice actresses were doing the parts for the female background characters most of the time.

I think she had her own apartment in "Hereafter" (it looked like one that she was getting dressed for Superman's funeral in), but in "The Balance" she had her own decorated quarters on the Watchtower.

I don't think in JL they had actual living quarters, except maybe Jonn, but I could see him just sleeping on a cot in the Watchtower and that would suffice. In JLU they had their own rooms, or at least some did.

In one episode (maybe the one with John Dee, the nightmares dude ?) they had Flash noticing him taking a nap standing up, mistaking it as one of his telepathic trances. So maybe he doesn't require a bedroom and just sleeps standing up wherever he ends up in the Watchtower.

Oh, and speaking of J'onn--a question I've meant to ask since the beginning and keep forgetting--does it ever explain how he's been alive all this time ? And what was he doing during those 1000 or so years (or maybe it was only 500, I can't remember the time lapse between the last of his people's slaughter and when he gets captured on Earth). Are Martians immortal, barring any fatal physical violence done to them ? If not, how did he prolong his life (don't spoil me if it comes up in JLU). Does it ever touch on his backstory again ? 'Cause beyond some lines and the big long flashback of his struggle with the virus aliens in the Justice League opener, all we got was a hallucinations in (I think) the Morgan La Fay/Jason Blood/Etrigan arc. If they didn't mine he and Diana's long lives for some story material, what a waste of potential.

RealChic, you're right, that apartment Hippolyta helps her get dressed in in "Hereafter" is probably where she lives. Had forgotten about that.

Re: voice actors
In the extras or maybe one of the commentaries on one of the Justice League sets, they touch on how they were limited in how many guest actors they could hire per episode/arc. I was disappointed to see that Malcolm McDowell hadn't been brought in to do Metallo once (though there maybe weren't quite enough lines to justify it), they had Corey "Brainiac" Burton play him instead. Metallo was one of my favorite generic Superman: TAS baddies because of how well McDowell sold the character and his struggles with his state of being (even though he wasn't a sympathetic character at all and was in fact just some terrorist dude in the opening arc of S:TAS).

I just saw the Static Shock crossover two-parter "A League of Their Own." It was a fun episode, but the JL actors seemed so bored doing it. Maybe it was because they were out of their natural element? I don't know. They seemed like the strict, old fogey adults bored with the kids stampeding on their day. The only one who seemed to be performing as usual was Michael Rosenbaum.

Did Corey Burton voice Brainiac here? The voice sounded slightly different. <---(Never mind, I found out the answer on TV.com. He did.)

Martians apparently have really long lifespans. They never really get into J'onn since he didn't actually do much between stopping the aliens from the pilot and the pilot itself.

The living arrangements of several league members were a bit confusing during JL. Hawkgirl was active prior to the league's formation, but there's no way she could hide her wings. Did she live in an extremely well-hidden space ship? A cave? Did she have to hunt and forage for food? The hero code frowns on accepting freebies. I also wondered how GL could afford his apartment. He didn't seem to have a real job so did he inherit a bunch of cash to pay the rent? Again, I can't see a guy like him accepting a free place to live.



Batman's way too cheerful (for him) for the events of ROTJ to have occurred during JLU. It also raises the question of why he never called some Leaguers for help. Tim was MIA for weeks: after a few days Batman should have asked someone for help.

Hawkgirl could easily hide her wings, different universe, but Warren Worthington III, the X-Men's Angel, had a harness and straps to hide his wings. I know she is a woman and that could hinder what she could wear, but maybe she had a devise that turned them invisible.

I thought the events that lead to ROTJ took place originally took place at the end of the S1 JLU finale, when Batman takes off after talking to GA. He got a message from Babs saying Tim was missing and he was responding to it. Of course if this did take place then he was very okay w/it during the JLU S2. Now we know, given Batman's demeanor and how he would act and be a recluse w/that event taken place, that it didn't happen until after JLU ends. Batman didn't ask for any help b/c he doesn't do that. He could have called J'onn or Clark to come search, but that would be admitting failure in his mind, it's his partner and his duty to find him w/o any outside help.

I never caught that. Interesting. I'll have to watch it again.

Well, that finale was supposed to be the series finale, so it would have made sense there. I guess when Cartoon Network ordered another season they either missed that line or decided just decided "what the hell" and left it in.

Sure, it's possible she did that although there was never any indication one way or another that she did so. We never got a chance to see her try to blend in as a civilian.



My interpretation of that was Batman establishing that he was still a part-timer and that he had better things to do than listen to Superman talk. With regards to Batman not asking for help, I figured that the entire point of his being in the Justice League was to establish that he needed a helping hand once in a while. I can certainly see him not calling in a favor immediately but after weeks of a fruitless search even a stubborn guy like Batman should have broken down and asked for some help. Furthermore, you'd think that Alfred or Barbara would have sucked it up and made a phone call regardless of the potential consequences. Barbara knew Supergirl's ID so she would have been able to figure out Superman's if she needed to.

In any case I suppose it's possible that most of the League was off-world for a while during ROTJ, forcing Batman to work solo.

Justice League Unlimited
"Initiation"
I like the new intro and music. Heh, I can see from the old discussions about it in this thread, it was almost entirely hated (at least the music anyway--not so much the art). I love `80s-sounding guitar riffs/power chords/cheese. Jury's still out on how I feel about flashes of the episode you're watching intercut with art stills of the Big 7. If they start getting real spoilerish, I'll have to fast-forward. Do they ever feature anything so obvious that it'll have me easily predicting events in the eps ?

Captain Atom's accent is charming or something, but otherwise not too impressed and isn't he a mainstay of the series ?

Green Arrow could be fun.

I like Supergirl's inclusion, but then I liked the usage of her on Superman: TAS as well.

"For The Man Who Has Everything" was unexpected (I had no idea we'd still be getting main-character-only episodes, nice!) and quite good.

Fell asleep halfway through "Hawk and Dove" (it was late, not due to boredom), so I'll have to finish the rest or re-watch, but did anyone else get a potential gay vibe between those two ? And it's not like I intentionally force my mind to read into characters like that on TV for my own amusement ('cause hey, I don't 'ship Superman and Batman), I genuinely thought there was something going on there, given their interactions. Aalthough I could've sworn I heard them refer to eachother as "brother" during the ep, not sure if it was meant in the familial sense or to imply friend...

Enjoying all the Return of the Joker talk. My sister might start watching (re-watching, in most of Batman:TAS' case) the DCAU franchise. Depending on how JLU goes for me, I might place RotJ at the very end of the viewing order/bottom of the pile. It seems fitting that the franchise should end with Batman, since it began that way. But I'll have to see how JLU does, impact- and quality-wise, as a finale, 'cause maybe RotJ is best viewed during Batman Beyond Season 3 where I saw it.

Some of the ways I watched the franchise were unecessary though. I mean I pretty much stuck to the way it aired on TV, with the odd movie placed in the right spot or slipping back and forth between Batman and Superman when they had their crossover. But I think now, Justice League Seasons 1 and 2 can be watched following Superman Volume 3's conclusion, while Beyond can be viewed before JLUnlimited Season 1 (aka Justice League Season 3, if you like--man that's annoying and potentially confusing that they changed the name and started back at Season 1 even though it's the same goddamn show). There are no references or, I think, even any knowing foreshadowing or winks about Batman Beyond happening during JL Seasons 1 & 2, but knowing that "Epilogue" comes up at the end of the Unlimited Season 1 set, makes sense to get to know Terry and his future so that'll have some meaning. It works better that way too 'cause you get a break after the fairly huge events in "Starcrossed", get to go back to 100% Batman for three seasons before jumping back into League.

Hawk and Dove are brothers but I get a vibe off them too.

I never meant to imply that Bruce actually got a message from Babs about Tim missing. It's the way I interpreted it in order to make ROTJ timeline fit in the norman Timm universe. It's plausible that it could have played out then, but then we got the next season and there definitely would have been an implication or something else if they had fit it in b/t the two seasons.



That was the point of him joining, but like I said, this was his personal problem, his partner is missing and him admitting he needed help would have belittled him even though Tim was in trouble. We all know that deep down, Bruce is a loner and asking for help is the very last resort for him. Letting Barbara help was probably as much help as he was willing to accept if even that. Barbara knew not to go over Bruce's head in regards for outside help, can you imagine the wrath she would have incurred, much less she would have been out of the team. In hindsight i'm sure Bruce regrets not asking Clark for help, of course J'onn would have been the best help.

The character does, but that specific voice doesn't. George Eads from CSI played his voice in that episode, and someone else took over afterwards. The newer voice sounded less stiff to me...GE made him sound too rigid (but then again, the character was a military man, but still...).

Cypher21, I don't think Bruce would be all that botherd by asking for help, he just wouldn't think to do it himself. Robin's safety is in question and while he may not be thrilled about it this Bruce wouldn't punish Barbra for it, IMO. He'd probably just make them all train five times as hard afterwards to make sure it doesn't happen again.

John was retired military, wasn't he? So wouldn't he be receiving a military pension?

I always thought when you were drafted into the GL Corps, that they set you up pretty nicely as you were defending that section of the quadrant. You know, an suitable apartment, a regular salary, the usual perks w/any job. I wonder what their benefits package is like, and if they have a 401k?

Was it John McGinley? Kinda sounded like him.


That's what I thought as well, but I wasn't sure if my memory was faulty on the military service.

Chris Cox took over the role of Captain Atom after Eads "declined" to return (allegedly because he wasn't fond of working for scale). Thus, in "Initiation," Atom spoke with Eads' Texas accent, which softened considerably when Cox assumed the part.

He was The Atom, not Captain Atom. (No relation.)

They don't have one. Green Lanterns work for free, hold down other jobs if they want to earn money, and are expected to prioritize their non-paying work over whatever they do to earn money (if they do anything at all). The whole organization has never been portrayed that realistically.

As to the Tim thing, that's one of the things that is kind of hard to fit into the DCAU because of JLU; quite frankly, no matter how much Batman would rather not work with anyone else, when Tim's life is at stake, I expect him (or the people around him; or even the JLU to notice on their own) to ask for help, especially when the League has numerous people who could solve the problem fairly easily. Otherwise he just looks grossly negligent. Moreover, Barbara and Alfred are not idiots, and faced with the choice between offending Bruce's sensibilities and Tim getting killed, the choice is obvious.

My post about the GL Corps was a joke. Sarcasm doesn't come off well on message boards as it would in person.

It's possible that they had a bg space mission putting several of the best people to find Tim out of range and then the other people might be busy with big things most of the time.


For example if Wonder Woman was visiting her mother it's not like Bruce could just swing by and get her.



And that actually brings me to a point, Batman has had the League in Gotham before with no problems. Wonder Woman was with him when she was turned into a pig. And I'm pretty sure Huntress and Black Canary are Gotham Based.

I imagined it was a joke. I just like pointing out the Green Lantern Corps basically practices slave labour (if "zero dollars a year" isn't slave wages, I don't know what is).

They did show her in civvies in the comic book that went with the cartoon. At least in the issue that I read, she had her wings stuffed in a backback that would fall away when she pulled a cord. It was a little backpack though, and my friend and I would joke that it looked mighty painful.

I don't really see an issue with the whole RotJ/Tim thing. How many times has Batman faced stuff in his solo comics that he should by all rights call in the Justice League to help with? Lots. Yet he never does, except when the story -- not the situation -- calls for it. Same thing here. Think of his solo series as similar to his solo comics and JL/JLU as the team book and it all makes sense. Considering all the times Batman has faced and defeated the Joker, I can't see him thinking this time was any different than all the other times he didn't ask for help beyond the Gotham clique. And the Joker's actions in this instance were beyond anything he'd done in the past, so Bats had no reason to suspect it was more serious.

Frankly, there's so many things in superhero comics that don't make sense if you try to apply logic to them (Thor wondering about the lack of superhero response to Katrina, for the most recent example to come to mind) that I stopped worrying about it unless it's really egregiously messed up. And I don't think this is a case of that.

If it was a normal situation, I would agree, but with Tim missing for weeks, I would expect he might look to the sky for a bit of help.

I like the "everyone-off-in-space" and/or "some were busy with crises that threatened more than the life of one boy" explanations. Both of those combined. And if anyone like Hawk & Dove or any other unfamiliar types (to Batman) were available, he wouldn't have bothered asking them anyway. A call may've gone out to the other main team mates, maybe Jason Blood/Etrigan too (who I'm pretty sure was portrayed as an aquaintance during his introduction on New Adventures of Batman, right ?), since magic might've been able to locate Tim. But when he got a negative response back, I imagine Bruce would've just had a bit of mild frustration before pressing on with the search.

Hank/Hawk might be the winner of "most disproportionate forearms of the franchise". Especially when he and Don/Dove (I'm trying to learn names here, writing it out/repetition helps big time) are in their civies and involved in a bar fight, they're ridiculously large, even for dynamic cartoon stylings. But that's okay, all the male human and human-shaped heroes shouldn't have all the same builds.

"Fearful Symmetry"
Interesting that they're tying together some of the backgrounds of the experimented-on metahumans like Volcana and the original Royal Flush Gang. This show shouldn't remind me of Volcana (comics or S:TAS-created villain ?) and how much of an emptry generic villain they turned her into after her fairly decent introductory ep.

Jeffrey Combs rocks as The Question. A brand new character I'm 100% happy about. He's human and simply uses disguises, right ? He isn't really faceless ?

Is Tea/Galatea from the comics ? I'm pretty sure they did something with Supergirl involving a clone, but was it a lot like this ?

Dr Hamilton! Not necessarily 100% Grade A Eeevil based on what I know from this one revelation so far, but definitely scheming. If it's just "for the good of mankind" and all that, then no surprise that he's flipped, given the events of the Superman ender "Legacy". Should be fun. I love all these bits of an arc coming together.

"Kids' Stuff"
LOL x 100 ! So many quotable fun bits.

Liked how Diana enjoyed being taller than the boys so much.

"Your girlfriend sure is bossy"
"Shut up!"

Hee! Awesome.

That looked like a fun reality, but of course everyone would've grown up, Mordred would've ruled as a tyrant, and then there would've been beheadings for real, not just kids messing around with the guillotine.

Aaaaand a depressing (yet poignant) line from Batman plus creepy ending to top it off. Why did Mordred age to be decrepit after making himself a young man ? Morgaine says that he broke her spell of eternal youth and would therefor have eternal life, but why as an old man, why didn't he stay 20-something in appearance ?

Why does Morgaine Le Fay wear that mask ? Just protective armor, or is she hiding a hideously scarred face ?

Tea ~ Power Girl

Sort of.

I just have to say if you like him so far, he only gets better and your questions get answered, so keep on watching. JLU totally revitalized his character for DC.



She is basically a Power Girl homage but just not given the name of Power Girl. Do a wikipedia search under that name and you will get your answers.

There is no equal.

D'oh, my bad! Thanks for clarifying.

All the years he'd been kept eternally young for came rushing back.

Kid Stuff was one of my favourite episodes of JLU; the personalities of Wonder Girl, Bat-boy, and Kid Lantern were great (they didn't really do anything with Superboy). I especially liked the contrast between John's fairly banal use of his ring and Kid John's superactive imagination.

Not a big fan of Kid Stuff. I usually enjoy silly epiosdes but I think the lack of Flash really shows here. He'd be perfect for this kind of episode.

I think because she's a demon, centuries old at that, and is trying to cover that up. In her first appearance, "A Knight of Shadows," they showed her without her mask and she was beautiful, but when kissing Jason revealed fangs. And later, when she started wearing the mask we could see her shriveled up and aged hands before she sucked the youth out of innocent people. So she's hiding an old and demonic face under that mask.

There really wouldn't be any difference between him as an adult and him as a kid.

Also, I saw Superman: Doomsday, the first Timm-made DVD movie. The important thing to note is: It's gay. Really, really gay. Gayer than Smallville.

I refuse to believe it! Is such a thing even possible??

: )

Considering this is Superman we're talking about, is this Superman/Batman gay or Superman/Lex gay we're talking about?

Lex/Superman gay.

After Supes dies, Lex clones him, and then takes the clone into a room full of red-sun lamps, and beats him up, screaming at him for leaving when they had "so much unfinished business", then straddles him, and asks "Who's your daddy?"

...!

Wow, that spoiler is...I don't, I don't know what to say!

But I was wondering about Superman: Doomsday. I'm going to have to hunt that sucker down.

Did JL/JLU establish that the wings were her actual wings? Because for every comic book version of the character (including Hawkgirl, Hawkwoman, and both Hawkmen) the wings were just part of the costume.

Yeah, the wings are real (I think Timm said in an interview that the Thanagarians genetically engineered themselves to have wings, or some such thing, which is why the ones seen in flashback don't have actual wings, just the comics-like artifical ones that Stalkman later uses).

"Stalkman"...nice.

Had to see "Destroyer" again last night. Finally noticed that Blue Devil actually had one line in the episode. That's it...nothing else new to add.

Colonel Green How dark is the movie? Might watch it with my son who loves the JLU shows.

I actually own the movie Clarkins

It is darker then normal, I will say that. There is a lot of just off screen deaths or implied deaths, and we do see blood in a few scenes.

Probably the most obvious example of all this is when we see Doomsday pick up a guy by the head and squish it like a melon, though we don't actually see said squishing.