Since I mistook this at first as some sort of slash fanfic reference, yeah, it is NOW. Hee.

I'm sick of Green Lantern too. After two seasons of his unrelenting angst I still don't find him interesting. That's saying a lot because after a single episode of JLU I found myself liking Captain Atom, another uptight military man, and I don't read the comics so I had never even heard of him before. I actually had an "Oh nooo!" moment when he exploded and I assumed they'd killed him off. Now that would have been a ballsy move for a series premiere.

I thought they'd killed him off, too.
What's his backstory? How did he become a total nuclear reactor in a suit?
And I, too, am a little overdone with GL. We get it, he's moody. Move on.

Next week is an adaption of Alan Moore's "For the man who has everything". Awesome.

Is Green Arrow really more violent than the other JLers?

And word on Green Lantern and his newly rediscovered curmudgeonliness. He really needed Hawkgirl in more ways than one.

Short History:
In 1968, Air Force Captain Nathaniel Adam, a Vietnam veteran was falsely accused and court-martialed for murder and treason. In order to get a Presidential pardon for his crimes, Adam was forced to participate in an atomic experiment. In Area 51, government scientists were testing samples of an alien metal found at the crash site of a UFO and Captain Nathaniel Adam, was chosen to be the guinea pig. They locked him inside a sphere of the strange metal, suspended in an underground test chamber and detonated a nuke.

The experiment catapulted Nathaniel into quantum field where the alien metal that was bonded to him and he got shot into the future to the present.

With his original pardon null and void because he had been presumed dead, Adam was immediately co-erced into doing clandestine work for the U.S. military while maintaining a public superhero persona. Dubbed "Captain Atom" by the government's public relations people, the 1960s adventures of Captain Atom were transformed into a cover story, giving him a fake past for the years of his non-existence.

I'm not 100% sure if the cartoon's Captain Atom has the same origin though.

I personally love Green Lantern and I don't see him as any angrier than batman. Besides right now he has a reason to still feel a little angry lost his girl to guy with a burnt face, his girl betrayed his planet, he got his ring broken off along with his hand or arm broken, the Lantern Core turned their back on him when they thought the blew up a planet. Face it besides some bird nookie what good has happened to Jon Stewart?

GLJohnStewart is the best GL for JL. Kyle is too powerful and Hal has too much baggage. So what if he angry, does Bats have a cornerstone on anger? I didn't sense anymore anger than what he done for 2 season on JL.
I see some want Supes to stopped being the annoying boy scout that he is, but he still being written that way and that's not gonna changed anytime too soon. Instead be upset that Supergirl is written as an airhead and GA as a guy who prefers women over his morals.

The Hal Jordan that became Parallax in the comic books has too much baggage. There's no reason why they couldn't have used the Hal Jordan of the old Superfriends days, before he went crazy etc. I'm convinced the only reason why they chose the John Stewart Green Lantern is because they wanted to have a black member of the JL. I miss the Hal Jordan GL. GL was always my favorite of the old Superfriends.

I personally don't think Batman is particularly angry in this series. He's a loner (keep in mind that he wasn't standing with the other heroes during most of Supes' speech, he was working in a corner), but he doesn't seem pissed off at the world. I think part of the reason they made GL angry is to help distinguish him from the rest. Supes, WW, and MM already fill the even-keeled superhero requirement. This was always part of the problem with GL (Hal Jordan)in the comics, if memory serves: he was essentially Superman with a different set of powers. That's why they made him go nuts and replaced him.


BTW, Hawkgirl is coming back a bit later in the season to help out with a resurrected Solomon Grundy

A comparison of Green Lanterns.

Hal Jordan. Generally referred to as the "greatest" of Green Lanterns. In battle, certainly no one can truly compare to him. He has the strongest will of all GL's. But out of battle, Jordan's character is dull as dishwater. He's even more vanilla than Superman.

Kyle Rayner. Young, and impetuous. Has a more 'Peter Parker' type personality. Maybe he doesn't have as strong a will as Jordan, but Kyle is an artist, and he has a huge imagination. (Which when using a GL ring is very beneficial) Kyle is very likable.

Guy Gardner. Guy has a take-it-or-leave-it type of personality. You are either amused by his jerkass attitude, or you're not amused. But there's no question he's tough as nails. He's as tough as John is in my opinion. But his sexist, macho-man personality tends to grate on everyone around him.

John Stewart. Great character with a commanding presence. When he's talking, you suddenly feel the need to stand up and pay attention. Strong-willed, tough as nails guy. Has a somewhat interesting military background. It needs to be explored more, but I doubt they'll ever do it on this series. (I still didn't see the need to change his look)

Out of all these that they considered using on the show, Kyle and John were the most viable choices. I think the main reason they went with John is because he's black, and they wanted at least one ethnic character in the main lineup. I personally have no problem with that at all. And note that John isn't a one-dimensional generic "black guy" either. He's a legitimate character.

[disclaimer]Again, I'm not a big comic book guy, but I know enough to get by with the main characters and to know a little bit about some of the other ones. (For example, I recognized Dr. Fate, but didn't know Green Arrow.)[/disclaimer]

Word on the large number of GL stories in the first JL. I think that part of the reason for this might have something to do with both Superman and Batman having been featured in their own shows very recently. Maybe it was a good idea to give those to characters a breather for a little while, even if they are sometimes the strongest characters (for story telling.)

I think GL was probably the easiest character to go with after Superman and Batman, as in JL and through one JLU, he has a very strong personality. Bats (I love when Flash calls him that) doesn't have the market cornered on being angry, but he's a different kind of angry. Batman seems more focused on what he's angry about (remember, I'm just talking about this show, and not the vast group of other shows, comics and movies) and he also injects a little more humor and sarcasm into his personality. GL is just seething angry right below the skin. Dark Child brings up a good point, in that he really hasn't had anything good (other than bird nookie, Hee!) happen to him.

It is possible that story number one for JLU focused on him to show us that he is clean, mean, and back in the saddle after what happened in the first JL. I also think this is the point of the Sisko look mr.simpatico, so I'm willing to just accept the new look as a sign that something has changed since the last time we saw him. (Oh, and I actually like it. I would think that is exactly the look he would go with in 2004.)

Having said all of that, I think that if I suspend my thought process that makes me wonder why they are going to tackle big problems in such small groups, I will really enjoy the group dynamics that can be set up here on a week to week basis. I can envision each week having a strong and serious team leader, a specialty character to deal with the specific problem, and both of them will be annoyed by either a wise-cracking or brooding loner or undiciplined wild card character. This should be a lot of fun and a great way for somebody like me to learn about more characters.

Re: GL -- See, I was discussing this with some friends last night, and I now think the "new look" GL is subtly, but palpably different from the characterization we've seen in previous seasons, and I think it was done intentionally.

Remember, he used to be straight-ahead military guy, everything by the book and according to regs; a soldier. But he -- and the rest of the JL -- was betrayed by Hawkgirl. Because SHE was doing her duty, following orders -- she was, in other words, a soldier. So the events of Starcrossed have changed him, opened him up a bit, allowed him to see that his worldview has certain limitations. Example: The bald/goatee look is anything but military. When Captain Atom responds with a "Roger that," GL says, "You can just say okay." In the end he can -- grudgingly -- acknowledge that Supergirl's actions were unorthodox but effective.

Sure, he's still rather a prick, but he's not the same guy he was in the first couple seasons. Which is why the writers introduced Captain Atom to be the classic foil for "liberal hothead" Green Arrow -- because Green Lantern no longer fit the "conservative soldier" characterization.

Note to non comics fans: There some serious precedent there. There was a comic in the '70s called Green Lantern/Green Arrow, (different GL, but whatever) in which those two heroes (who sit at either end of the political spectrum) travel the highways and byways of the country and deal with Social Issues. By, um, arguing. Imagine Bill Press and Pat Buchanan in spandex. (Or, you know, don't, because, ew.) Anyway -- it made great strides in terms of comic book topicality and characterization, but as for the actual dialogue...yikes. Put it this way: it was .... important.

I liked how that informed the JLU episode -- how they let Ollie be Ollie, and that John Stewart has grown out of the role they originally slated for him. The rest of the big seven, I think, is still pretty much where they were in "Secret Origins."

(Hm. In a previous post, I mentioned my fondness for geeky deconstructionist fanwankery of the superhero genre. Reading over the above ... I seem to be soaking in it.)

GL/John Stewart's change in appearance is EXACTLY the same change that they did for Commander Sisko on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Remember? When it first aired, Sisko had, like John Stewart, the generic Negro mini-fro and no facial hair. The next season: Bald head, mustache and goatee. He was "Hawk" in space.*
Dunno if that's where they got the idea for JS's change, but quite a coinky-dink.


I'll admit to watching Justice League sporadically, but have they ever delved into Flash's character at all? Have they ever shown him with his cowl down? Do we know for sure it's Wally West under there? I don't remember them showing him as anything but a hotheaded assclown.

Also, I suppose in this new JLU, the JSA doesn't exist, since I saw quite a few JSAers in attendance on last week's ep.

Yes, we saw all of them unmasked, I'm pretty sure that Flash was the one who commented on how surprised he was that Bats was Bruce Wayne. However, I don't know enough about it to tell you whether or not he was Wally West. I'm sure you'll get an answer from one of the more knowledgeable people here.

I have to admit, I don't understand why the big deal about changing GL's hair. To me it is either an attempt to make him look the way he probably would look in 2004, or more likely, a way to show us that he's changed since the whole Hawkgirl thing went down.

They confirmed in the 'Starcrossed' episode that it is Wally.

Anyone know when the 1st ep will rerun? I missed it due to a retreat and was REALLY looking forward to it.

Thank you, Zerowing. Your post was very objective and very cool!

We all know John was picked partially for his character and race. So what? I don't wanna see an all league of the caucasion persusion. I'm glad John and MM there to add some personality and color to the JL.

Generic negro mini-fro? Dude, I can't decide if that racist or ignorance. Exactly what makes a negro hair generic? And is it a common like whites ALL having blonde hair and blue eyes? :rolling eyes: Really, the silliness has gotta stop.

I'm surprised Flash missed the opportunity to mack on so many new women.

I'm sure Flash will get his chance. Characters will usually stay in character.

Zerowing, you forgot Alan Scott. Sure, in terms of personality he is about as bland as Hal Jordan, but he was the first Green Lantern. I seriously doubt that we'd see him or Jay Garrick show up though. I'm guessing they'll want to have only one Flash and one Green Lantern to make things simpler. Still it would be awesome to have them and Wildcat in an episode kicking it old school.

alexias, according to my listings it will re-air on Saturday 8/7 at 11:30 AM EST.

No, I didn't forget Scott. I was going through the choices that Timm and Co., were probably going to use on the show. I doubt they would have given much consideration to Alan Scott.

When people get out of a serious relationship they (supposedly) change their "look", as a sign of change or a new start. So I think that's what they're going for with John's new look.

As for John ... I've never seen him as angry, more straight laced and "by the book". I think he might lose his patience with the other members who aren't as 'by the book.' I think Hawkgirl, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman are the "angry" characters.

I'm pretty sure that Dini has said they chose John as their GL because he's his favorite. He's my favorite as well (though I do think the animated version of John is a bit different from the 'real' one).

And Flash, no they've never really delved into his character, probably because he's been established as the "court jester" of the League. He's comedy relief and the guy who gets knocked out and is saved by the others. Which is a shame, how many times are they going to have him run into someone's arm? His perceptions increase with his speed, those people would be frozen in place to him, it's be like running into a statue instead of just ducking under the arm. Of course, it's pretty much in line with the way they portray him in the JLA comics ...

Blackwing thanks! I'll be tuning in : )

This was Denny O'Neil's "Hard Travelin' Heroes" stories with GA and GL (Hal), often with Black Canary in tow, trekking across America raising awareness of racism, civil rights etc. - (this was during the Vietnam/Watergate era). They were "important" in their day but now seem very dated. GA became the liberal spokesman for the oppressed while GL became the conservative former military (and Hal was) working for the "Man" (or in this case the "Guardians). The stories were entirely one-sided (because O'Neil was expressing his own political views through the stories) in that Ollie was always right and Hal was always wrong. While this secured Ollie's uber-liberal persona in the comics till the present day, it also did damage to Hal Jordan's image that he never could get rid of (one of the reasons they made him nuts - they had no idea what to do with him). With no Hal in the JLU it seems they want to make Cap Atom or GL/John Ollie's counterpoint. I personally don't think it will work.



I agree we're not likely to see either. But bringing in Jay Garrick would give them a reason to make a Flash-centered episode exploring the legacy of the various Speedsters that Wally upholds.

As for Alan Scott, he would have been a perfect guest-star for the Solomon Grundy resurrection episode. Since Grundy was one of Alan's original Golden Age villians and even in the Animated-verse Grundy's origins date back to the 1940s at least.

Wasn't there a rumor that Timm&Co. wanted to do a Green Lantern Corps series that was vetoed and was eventually transformed into that Duck Dodgers/GL episode instead?

Which is funny because prior to those stories GA was nothing more than your typical Billionaire playboy without a care in the world. He was Batman without the angst, then he lost his money for a week a became a champion of all things liberal.

And he still wasn't as cool as Hawkeye.

On Topic? I want them to do a Teen Titans episode, only done right, not like that lousy faux-anime version airing before JLU. I'd love a chance to see Starfire, Cyborg, Raven, et cetera without the super-deformity nonsense.

It's neither. It's just the silly, non-PC way I refer to that style of hair on a Black man (which I am, BTW). Been doing so ever since JJ on Good Times and Arnold and Willis on Diff'rent Strokes.

Topic? I sure hope this season doesn't spend too much time on Green Arrow and Black Canary hookin' up. Since we all know that's the only reason GA's sticking around.


ETA. OK?

I was just wondering if anyone knows whether GA is going to be seen a lot this season. He's one of the more famous B-listers, but I just can't see the producers promising to showcase a lot of heroes and then end up just using a few. Of course, he has enough popularity (like Supergirl) to probably be seen again. Not too sure about Capt. Atom, though. Maybe in a big group if the full League is actually needed.

cambridgeguy, I'm sure we'll see more GA nad SG. The rest(I hope) will be used sparingly.

Another strange thing I heard; that supposedly the little kids episode of JLU is supposed to be shown this Sat instead of the adaptation of, "The Man Who Has Everything". So be forewarned just in case.

They’re doing an episode based on Moore’s “For the Man Who Has Everything?” Really? Wow!

I love the new season of Justice League. I love the new characters although, I am a little upset that the network wasn’t able to get the rights to all the characters they wanted: Blue Beetle being the most notable. But DC was good enough to allow for most characters to come onboard so it's all good.

Supergirl was great. I love her cocky impulsiveness. I hope they don’t mess with that. And Captain Atom rocks. They’ve seemed to change the character a bit: he’s now completely energy surround by a containment suit - but that works fine. I wonder if his name will be Nathan Adams or Cameron Scott (his modern day handle).

I just got a mental picture of a the whole lot of them swarming around some giant menace similar to all of the ships flying around the Borg cube at the start of Star Trek First Contact. I can even see GL saying "prepare for ramming speed".

I didn't see anyone discussing this, so I'll throw it out there. Was anyone else super annoyed by the fact that they basically kidnapped Green Arrow to gethim to the meeting? That just bugged me through the whole episode. It also bugged me that Bats just seemed to go along with it, because would have pictured Bats being annoyed that they did that than him shrugging it off.

Okay, so I almost peed my pants over that Black Canary cameo at the end! I've been wanting to see her in animated form since I was a tyke watching Super Friends. How long do we have to wait for her episode??? Any word on who will be doing the voice?

But I do wonder why they chose that costume. Don't get me wrong, I think it's cool they stuck with the "iconic" BC costume...but since they used that beyond hideous new Huntress costume, I wonder why we didn't get the almost as hideous current BC outfit?

From what I hear not until next season. Don't know who will do her voice.

GA and the other superheroes were not kidnapped or forced to be there by any means the rest of them wouldn't use. The LEague did a major membership drive. They had GL get GA because and only because he hadn't given them an answer.

GA for all of his respect of the little guy defied the orders and wishes of everyone to embroil the league in an international incident that I hope carries over SOME later.

Also he was more reactionary than decided. For him any group greater than himself seems too oppressive, refer to Superman's speech. A large part of the Unlimited game plan will be getting all these individual powerhouses to say Yessir, and Let's Work Together.

Even the Original Seven had personality conflicts before Grodd's tampering and Starcrossed.

Eh, sounds like kidnapping to me. If you send someone an invite to, say, a birthday party and they don't respond, wouldn't it be kidnapping to go and grab them and force them to attend? GA said he had better things to do; the JL should have respected that. Fascists.

Hee! While that may be true, it seems to me that GA likes the attention.

I think it was kidnapping...but without the usual fight and struggle.

It was Superman's idea. You can't fight the system and be a Superman-approved good guy. Register (and get a child-safety lock for) your force-ring and get a license for your Batmobile!

Batman went along with it to get to see Ollie in the shower.

Personally, rather than one big-ass team, I'd rather see multiple superhero teams sniping at each other and competing, while still all being good guys. It would a) explain why they don't call each other for help and b) highlight that many are nonconformist vigilantes and c) show their various personalities.

This "kidnapping" thing reminded me of something I was thinking about while watching. Does anyone else think that the original seven have become a little more like the Justice Lords from "A Better World"? They seemed somewhat elitist in their manner. I'm looking at that forcing Green Arrow up there in a different light now.

Or maybe they're so concerned about going over the edge, they need GA with them. Still can't believe they have non-metas guiding the crafts.

Somebody mentioned Vixen...she's currently in a Birds of Prey arc. Did she always have Animal Man-like powers? Also there are Huntress and Black Canary. It's an awesome book...not like the crap-ass TV series.

You have to wonder if the 7 have forgotten about their overlord counterparts. I'd love to see an episode where at least one of them has doubts and concerns about that.



As others have pointed out, taking him when he didn't seem interested is kidnapping. I don't care what their motives were, still kidnapping. A membership drive is when the girl scouts hand out fliers. Girl scouts do not, however, forcibly drag classmates to meetings and make them join.

And his respect for the little guy is exactly what drove GA to viiolate orders. Orders which, since he was refusing to join, he was under no obligation to obey. But he saw that the civilians were the ones most affected by the robot, i.e. the little guy.

And maybe these individual powerhouses don't want to say Yessir and Let's Work Together. All of these people could have had the choice to start a league in the past and they didn't. That's their choice, and the original league shouldn't get to make that decision for them.

Well it wasn't like they were twisting Ollie's arm behind his back and forcing him to stay. It was his decision to stick around.

The point of teleporting him to the watchtower was just to get Ollie to see what kind of operation they were running. Perhaps hoping if Green Arrow got to see it all for himself, he'd be more enthusiastic about joining the League.

Which is why i'm a Marvel guy.

I mentioned upthread that this Justice League had fascist undertones, i.e.e, that anyone with superpowers would have to belong. It seemed very distrubing, Superman doesn't go and join the Police force, why does everyone in a wierd outfit have to be under your (or J'onn's) leadership. They did kidnap Green Arrow. no way around it. I'm pretty sure one can't just walk off an orbital satellite.

Lantern7, I think Vixen just had generic animal powers, strenght, speed, agility, claws, whatnot.

Actually to my knowledge Vixen has always had Animal Man-ish powers. She got them from the her familys Tantu totem though.

The humans working aboard the watchtower was a weird sight. While I question the reason(superheroes with other skills can do it themselves) and the technology. The technology seems unfair that the JL can live and work in space and humans are still very much grounded. Imagine some resentment can come from that.

Vixen actually was in the Justice League comic as a member of a not-very-popular version of the team, and got her powers from her necklace. I heard she was relegated to 'Fem Force' now. Good for her. She wasn't being used anywhere else, so far as I recall.

Actually in the comics, there are people working and living in space on a daily basis. The space program (and science in general) in the comic book world is much farther along than in our real world.

Man, I wished we hadn't lost the cable when the finale came. From what you've all said, it kicked ass.

That said, I'm sort of ambivalent about the ton o'heroes we get now, but I am liking the Green Arrow. He's snarky, he's idealistic, he's not afraid to tell off Batman, Superman, and Green Lantern all at once, and he's a little shallow too. What's not to love?

Supergirl's all right, I suppose, and she was right: Captain Atom does need to get the stick out of his ass.

Time will tell, I suppose.

I'd like to see Batgirl pop up there sometime. She and Supergirl worked nicely together on the Batman/Superman series.