Considering what Batman was saying about Superman being irrelevant since his own death it sounds to me as if Johns is basically insulting everyone who's worked on Superman during the 90s. Heh, that's far more metatextual than I expect from a comic book.

I take it back, it was actually in Adventures of Superman #643. And Supes and Bats had some heated words with each other a couple of times in the OMAC Project mini-series. And Green Arrow really tore into Batman in JLA #120

Yeah, that was great! I love it when Ollie bitchslaps Batman.

I doubt that that's what they're going for.

Sad thing is I hardly miss JL/JLU now. Season 2 was my 'cannot missed an episode or else' season! But now I could almost care less. The rise in bad eps and long haitus have contribute this feeling in me.
Sorry, theres so many interesting shows on now, that JLU kinda pales in comparison.

Thanks for the link monsterzero

To return to the TT/JLU continuity issue for a sec. Samsnee agains brings up this idea that there have been lots of articles saying that they're set in different continuities, but whenever I ask anyone for a link nobody can find one. In interviews, it HAS been said that they can't ever do a crossover because of licensing issues but nowhere have I ever seen a statement that they aren't in the same universe.

And considering the pretty impressive stack of evidence that they *are* in the same universe, I think that's an important thing to have before writing it off.

What evidence is there? When was Robin (who is definately Dick at this point) ever away from Batman for that long? Wouldn't the TT have asked for help in trting to stop Trigon from appearing?

Wikipedia has a nice article debating the shared continuity:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_Animated_U...se#Other_series

I could buy the shows sharing the same continuity. After all, they seem to be sharing the same storylines lately.

Well, assuming they're part of the same continuity, the original Titans must have surely broken up by the time the Justice League was formed in the DCAU. If the writers can't do a crossover, they could get creative and introduce a revived team with fresh members.

I didn't know where else to post this question, but here it is. I'm sure everyone's familiar with Warner's policy of not having too many versions of the same character around, for fear of creating confusion w/ casual fans. Hence, why Batman and Wonder Woman will never appear on Smaillville (although I'm sure there are legal reasons as well).
So my question is, are there really that many people out there who can't differentiate between various interpretations of a literary character? Are there people out there who think that Smallville is a prequel to the Superman movies?
This policy has certainly affected JLU. I believe the producers have acknowledged that they can't use many of Batman's supporting cast as they are reserved for the new cartoon, The Batman. I'm wondering whether there is any justification to this policy.

This from Wikipedia



pretty much sums it up, though I'd add that the chest symbol and mask design that Nightwing wears in Teen Titans is the same as the ones he wears in Batman: Gotham Knights -- and are ones that have *never* appeared in the comics so can't be taken from there. Also, when Batman and the Graysons briefly appears in the episode Haunted (Robin has a split second flashback to his parents' death and his meeting Batman) the Graysons are wearing the same outfit as in the B:TAS episode Robin's Reckoning and Batman (though mainly in shadow) certainly seems to be the B:TAS version.

As noted by Wiki and monsterzero TT would have to be set about 10 years before JLU so you wouldn't expect them to call on the Justice League when in trouble. Meanwhile, the TT episode where Starfire visits the future reveals that in the JLU timeframe Starfire isn't on Earth anymore; Cyborg is literally a broken man; Raven has gone insane and is an asylum; and Beast Boy is a washed up, overweight (and possibly alcoholic) failure. The only Titan still active is Nightwing -- who emphatically states that he doesn't *do* partners and he doesn't *do* teams. Which not only seems like they're going out of their way to explain why the Titans aren't members of the JLU but ties in nicely with the Batman Beyond continuity that Nightwing is alive and well and active but completely uninterested in having anything to do with Batman or the Justice League.

That future was wiped out when she returned to the present. If TT Robin is Dick Grayson there's no way TT fits into DCAU continuity. Aside from the reasons mentioned, people were shocked when Superman first appeared. That doesn't make sense if the TT were active years before he showed up. If TT Robin is Tim, not only is he doing a lot of fighting in a very short time span, they have no excuse for at least mentioning bringing the JL during the very big disasters.

I also don't buy that it is the Dick Grayson from the B:TAS series. When that series first started, he was already in college. Yet the technology in TT looks far more advanced than anything in B:TAS, which would have occurred after he left TT. Granted I realize that the creators of TAS had no way of knowing they would have the chance to create such an expansive universe, which is why TAS looks more classical, but it's just too difficult to believe that gaps in technology.

I don't think the two shows are in the same continuity. Things just don't add up. Of course, there will be similarities, because they are drawing on shared source material from the DC Universe, but Teen Titans and the JLU just don't mesh together well. I don't think they really need to, either. I see things like the future Nightwing who appeared in TT having the same costume design as BTAS's Nightwing as a tip of the cap from people who produce TT.

I'm on the "They aren't in the same continuity" train when it comes to Teen Titans and Justice League. Although I would like to see a crossover at some point. Hey, they could do it with dimension travel.

I believe the creators have been clear that TT exists in it's own continuity. Also, Wikepedia is not a valid source as anyone can write anything they want. It's no different than posting an opinion on say, a message board.

They're the same people. Bruce Timm and Paul Dini were the creators of B:TAS and created TT too.



The thing is -- LOTS of people have said that they think they remember the creators saying something like that, but every time somebody tries to provide a link it doesn't actually say that. If anyone can actually provide any link at all where Bruce Timm says they're not in the same continuity then that would settle it.

But nobody has!



I don't understand your point. The Wikipedia article simply collects both the evidence for and against and says its a subject of frequent discussion amongst fans. Are you saying that any of the evidence listed there didn't actually happen in the episodes?

Paul wasn't a creator of BTAS, just one of the most influential writers.

And Bruce didn't develop TT; he's credited as an "executive producer", but producer credits in Hollywood mean jack, "executive" and "associate" credits doubly so. It could mean anything from he has a hands on, daily grindstone involvement to something as silly as Glen Murakami may have asked him to do a character design once and that was his compensation. He may or may not have actually had anything to do with developing the design of TT, and he may or may not actually have anything to do with its production.

Paul hasn't been actively involved in the Timmverse since Batman Beyond; he had nothing to do with developing Justice League, and he has no credits at all listed for Teen Titans.

Whether TT and Justice Leauge exist in a common continuity is a moot point anyways. For legal reasons, there will never be a crossover (even if the legal problems get cleared up in a year, with the way Cartoon Network is running the - to date - last order of episodes indicates to me that they have no interest in ordering more to provide such a crossover, and even TT is nearing the end of its production run -- it may be popular, but its very rare for a cartoon to continue production past what the network deems is the bare minimum for keeping it on the rotation without spending more money on it).

So far, the continuity of JL and TT both being in the Timmverse causes far more headaches and issues than its worth, so whether Timm and co. have said they aren't in a shared universe is irrelevant because they've also never said they are, and at this point, it doesn't matter either way.

Besides, if the TT were in the same universe as JLU, the probability of them crossing over with Static would approach 100%

The evidence listed there may not be accurately represented by the people who put it there for various reasons (eg, fans trying to give wider credence to their pet speculation). In this case, I feel that Wikipedia may be reasonobly reliable. In others... google John Byrne and wikipedia for some insight into the problems with Wikipedian as a reference.

I think the only clear thing is that creators of both shows have decided to leave it ambiguous to spur the fan debate. After all, it's obviously given us something to talk about while the show is on hiatus.

A quick search of Toonzone yields the following:

http://forums.toonzone.net/showpost.php?p=...686&postcount=4

* Timm said a Justice League/Teen Titans crossover was discussed with creators of both shows.

"We couldn't even agree on the format of the show," Timm said. "Should it be a one-parter? Should the Teen Titans crew do it? Should both of us do one part of it? Should it be a serious story? Should we deal with the continuity or should we not deal with continuity? After about five minutes of that, it was like, 'Forget it, it's too hard.'"


An interview with Murakami, which seems to have taken place early in the Titans' run.
http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=89451

TZ: Do you consider Teen Titans to be part of the DC animated continuity?

Murakami: We do talk about that. We talk about how everything fits. I guess it does fit, but there are so many other things I have to think about first before I can really start worrying about that.

TZ: Do you plan on having any crossovers with any of the other shows that are out there, like Justice League or Static Shock?

Murakami: Honestly, we haven't really talked about it. My main concern right now is to let the Titans be the Titans so people get used to the show and get to know the characters. Trying to figure out how to do a cross over is— Well, that's something else. I'm focusing on other things right now.


In other news, JL may see a season DVD set release next year:

http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=4480

To be honest, I'm not sure if I'm going to be picking it up. I've been collecting the BtaS and StaS sets, but I'm not so sure if JL holds my attention long enough to warrant a purchase.

In my opinion, the problem with JL (not to be confused with JLU) is that it took them a while to find their footing. A lot of the first season is pretty uneven, and you have to sift through some poor episodes (Warworld) to get to the good ones (IJ4A, Legends). Season 2 is much better overall.

Plus, Superman hadn't found his anti-wrinkle cream yet, so he spent most of season 1 looking old and getting knocked around like a weanie.

There is no reason to think the shows are in continuinity. And frankly, even less reason to need them to be. They exist MUCH better as seperate entities. I always find it bizare when people insist on arguing them into the same universe. The Timmverse is what it is. Its different than The Batman, Superfriends, and Teen Titans. Its different than Smallville, Birds of Prey, and Batman Begins.

Oddly enough, though, I'd still have liked to see a semi-crossover episode. Though I'd have done it with the Teen Titans meeting their universe's Justice League, or at least some members of it. I'd probably have even made their GL Hal or something to differentiate it from JLU, or an old school Aquaman if he's out of embargo. Then, the same week, you could have JLU team up with its universe's Teen Titans, though with them I'd love to see them be the classic team as young adults with Nightwing, Raven, Cyborg, Beast Boy/Changling, and Starfire.

You can't have the "classic" team without (Kid) Flash, Wonder Girl/Troia, Speedy/Arsenal, and, to a lesser extent, Aquaboy/Tempest.

It's too bad they niether show can use the others' characters. I'd love to see the JL versions of several of the Titans.

I recall an interview with one of the creators stating that TT was a seperate universe, but I can't remember who exactly.

My point about Wikepedia is that nothing on it can be pointed to as 'evidence'. It's just as much a fan compilation as anything written here. Which could all be accurate but shouldn't be treated as Gospel.

When is this show on? I can't find it on Saturday nights anymore?

Because CN's been giving it a good FUX-ing.






I kid, I kid.

No you don't.

It's true.

Why must networks treat great shows like crap? Would it kill them to show a marathon of the JL every now and then? I swear.

I don't think they need a marathon, just to actually air it consistantly.

If you thought that was bad, next Saturday on Toonami from 7 to 9:30 pm they'll be airing the 1989 Batman film. I guess it was a matter of time before they would air a completely non animated movie.

Not to mention that I believe that they still need to reinstate Toonami as a weekday block. That way, shows such as Yu Yu Hakusho and Gundam SEED would be less likely to suffer poor ratings due to less frequent airings and subsequently being pushed into the nether regions of CN's schedule, pissing off many, many people. Oh, and of course, we'd have room for daily Justice League (Unlimited).

Shouldn't it be a rule that CN doesn't show live action films unless they have Roger Rabbit in the title? Only a matter of time before the geniuses behind CN ruin Adult Swim like they ruined Toonami.

Oh, for goodness sake. Not everyone regards the first incarnation as the "classic" one. Just as many justifiably regard the New X-Men as the classic team, many regard the New Teen Titans as the definitive team. While Kid Flash and Wonder Girl were on that team, they pose significant issues in doing them within Timm-verse continuity. Maybe at least involve Flash as a nod to the series, but defining them as a Timmverse team would be tricky and unnecessary.

Cartoon Network's scheduling of JL/JLU is nothing short of appalling. Whenever a new episode airs, they never repeat it later that night or the next day. They never show marathons or repeats of previous episodes (unlike just about every other series on the network). There never seems to be any advertising or publicty surrounding the show. And last month, they stated that they were planning to show S1 JL episodes at 2:00am on a few specific dates. Those dates came and went and no JL was shown. They replaced them with other cartoon shows. What the hell is wrong with these people?

Yep. Encore of practically the entire Fridays show following the midnight Naruto. Just because we needed it.

I'll take that as a "Yes, they're in the same continuity".




But that's got nothing to do with the issue we're discussing. I simply quoted Wiki because it tied all the evidence I myself had seen in one place. The only point you can reasonably have against it is if you think the information I quoted is false -- which since I'm telling you again I saw it with my own eyes -- is the same as saying "Nuallain, you're a liar", something you have no reason to think.

That's more of a "We considered making them be part of the same coninuity but it was too complicated so nothing was decided one way or the other."

What? I didn't call you a liar, I said Wikipedia can't be relied on as a source. Chill. Producer Glen Murakami has stated several times that the Robin character on TT is a composite of other Robins both comics and animated, therefore he can't be the Robin of the Timmverse and the whole continuity is separate.

More on topic, an interview with Bruce Timm from just before Starcrossed aired, and Aquaman is getting his own show.

I think an Aquaman show is a bad idea. Yes, the Earth is 90% water, but I don't see how he's going to be able to fight a new bad guy every week. I guess they have some advantage over Smallville in that not many people are familiar with the character history beyond Superfriends.

I read in an article that CN will soon be offering some its shows for sale as downloads. Unfortunately, it will only work a media player from Hasbro, and I doubt it will have JLU. Why don't they just offer it as an On Demand Eps on Time Warner Cable like they do other shows? Or maybe even for download on the new Ipod Video?

Oh sure, complain about my monopoly.

I don't know how they're going to do it, but if they set the Aquaman show in Miami (I'm fairly sure the Smallville appearance mentioned Florida), there's plenty of city there to provide plot, and port cities have lots more passers-through than, say, a small town in Kansas, so they could have fewer local one-shot villains and more out-of-towner one-shot villains.

An Aquaman show simply doesn't attract me in any way. Now Hawk and Dove, there's a show I'd love to hate.

No, no there's actually so potential there. Just think, it'd make a great parody. It could be like The Tick mixed with Birdman: Attorney At Law. Actually, I could say the same about Aquaman. But they're intending to make it a drama, right? So sad.

The show will supposedly be set in the Keys.

When are new episodes of Justice League finally going to be aired? Does anyone have the scoop?

We've all been asking that same question for about 2 months now. Short answer is nobody knows. Someone at TV.com is convinced they'll start airing again in January, but I haven't seen any confirmation.

Maybe Dwayne will wander by again and give us some answers.

According to comicscontinuum(from Nov 2):
"No new episodes of Justice League Unlimited are scheduled for the Nov. 7-Dec. 4 period, and it's likely the next new episode will air in 2006."

That sucks. Way to go CN.