He was invulnerable to all weapons, physical attacks, fire, cold, ect. However he could still die from old age, illness, or starvation. Remember, you have to die a "Warrior's Death" to get into Valhalla, which Odin's spell made sure that wasn't going to happen.

(DC's Odin was a much bigger jackass than Marvel's Odin)

But these aren't the 1970's. I do agree that it was not unrealistic for a character in 1970 to add "black" to their name as a sign of racial solidarity. Indeed, as I understand it, that was the after the fact rational for Black Manta. He actually envisioned himself as a black power leader seeking to express the black man's natural dominance over the underwater world. Or something like that.

The thing is, that is no longer a relavant naming convention. Historically, "black power" was assimiliated into the larger civil rights movement, which while promoting pride in one's racial heritage, also promotes the ultimate unity of humanity. In modern day, naming oneself Black Manta or Black Falcon or Black Lightning would seem antiquated. Simply put, people don't do that now-a-days. While the comic books have to contend with a continuity from the 1970's, a cartoon like JLU had no such confinement to concern itself with. It has the freedom to revisit character names and update them for a contemporary audience. Their first effort with the Ultimen was an unabashed success. For the "token" Superfriends, they took what had been bizarely out-of-place stereotypical names and replaced them with names which acknowledged their cultural heritage while also being useful to their powers. It wasn't just "random Japanese reference" or "random native American reference." The names evoked their respective cultures while still having a clear point.

While Black Manta was not nearly as stupid a name as Samuri, I have no problem with them changing the name. Devil Ray is appropriately themed and characterized for a villian. I think its a definite upgrade by any standard.

Just saw this a minute ago..

http://www.toonzone.net/schedule/index.php...wseNetworkID=13

No Justice League this week. (And for several weeks it appears) There's going to be a Naruto rerun and the premiere of Bobobobo Bo-Bobo.

So it looks like no more new JL episodes for awhile.

Wasn't this the exact same premise of the old SF cartoon, Challenge Of The Superfriends?
The LOD would 1) hatch a plan to get at the SF, 2) the plan would succeed, but then something would go wrong, 3) So the LOD would had to free or help the SF, 4) After the SF won against whoever or whatever they were fighting, they would capture the LOD, but then the LOD would escape and vow to fight another day.

I hope these episodes will be better than that!

"I don't think Kara is immune to kryptonite at all - she says in the ep. that the other dimension is affecting her powers and reducing her vulnerability to kryptonite, in the scene where they first see the giant rock. "

Yeah, it seemed to me that it was a byproduct of Skartaris being a "high-magic" area, and that Superman and Supergirl are traditionally unusually vulnerable to magic. The twist was that the magic both weakened *and* protected her to some extent:

1. She's about 10% as powerful as normal, due to the effect of all that magic.
2. She's about 10% as vulnerable to Kryptonite as normal, for the same reason.

She even says after the door is shut that kryptonite in such a large quantity should have killed her instantly.

One thing I thought was especially cool is how Kara, even though weakened, picks up a sword and charges into the fight anyway....

I agree, unless the color name had something to do with their costume or powers, like Green Lantern or Red Tornado.



Well some of it has to do with trademarks and copyrights. A company that has had a trademark on a character for decades like Black Lightning isn't just going to suddenly change his name to "fit with the times". They need a bit more motivation than that.



I agree somewhat. Although I don't think a superhero name has to necessarily invoke what specific power or ability the hero has.

Like Marvel's 'The Vision' or 'Cyclops'. Their names don't really say what their powers are exactly, but they just sound cool, and it fits them. 'Green Lantern' or 'Firestorm' don't accurately describe their powers either. But they sound cool nonetheless.



I agree. But whenever I saw Black Manta, I never thought: "Oh a black super-villain".

The image that came into my mind was of a "Black Manta Ray". It made me think of something 'sleek, stealthy, and deadly'. Him being a black man never really came to mind.

While its not necessary for a name to describe one's power, nearly all do either describe their power and or appearance. Or at least evoke it in some manner. Cyclops, for instance, is derived from the appearance of his visor. Firestorm is certainly an appropriate aproximation of his appearance and power source. Green Lantern is a description of his power source. Moreover, the color serves a descriptive purpose and the "Lantern" part has an appropriate and unique metaphorical purpose. Apache Chief and Samuri just sounded ethnic. Longshadow and Wind Dragon, respectively, evoke a culture while also being purposeful.

You I'm a Superman fan, and a Smallville fan, and I have a question. In Smallville Clark uses his superspeed ALOT. Yet in the future when he is Superman he flies all the time. Now I know why he would fly from city to city, but why would he fly from let's say the DP to a building in Metropolis only a mile or so a way? You never see Superman use his "Faster than a Speeding bullet" speed anymore. And I've watched a few episodes of JL and there was the episodes where Aliens were invading, and they had to fight them. They were really fast and would shoot laser beams out of their one eye and always nail Superman right in the stomach. Now shouldn't he be able to stand there and dodge them all day long like The Flash?

Just something that I've always wondered. Hell I mean in Superman 1 they show Clark Kent running faster than a train, but that's the last time you see him run.

In the JLU universe, Superman is rather slowed down. I don't know what his exact speed is supposed to be, but he's not supposed to be faster than a bullet. If he was, that would make Flash a rather useless member of the team.

Superman can fly much faster than he can run, so I don't see much point in him doing a lot of running. I mean in Superman I he spun super-fast and turned himself into a human drill! And he flew backwards into time!! That's fast!!

In Superman's animated series, Superman used super-speed a number of times, but in Justice League, the writers have been putting more emphasis on his strength and invulnerability and have let Flash do all the speed tricks.

Essentially, the particular brand of superspeed you see in Smallville is an invention of the show. The comics and JLU Superman can certainly fly really, really, fast and also run and move pretty damn quick but the whole 'bullet time' thing where he can actually think and interact with object as if they were statues? No so much. That's always been pretty much the purvue of the Flash.

In fact, I'd say that one of the prime differences between Superman and the Flash isn't so much the speed they can go at, but the speed at which they can think.

Late to the party, but I had some love to share.

Well, for the second ep, anyway. The first -- despite Warlord rockin' the fur loincloth -- was definitely meh.

The second ep, though, was pitch-perfect, from the Legion of Doom (strange to see Grodd in charge and Luthor playing second fiddle) through Jonn J'onnzz' embarking upon his vision quest (a nod to his early comics adventures), to Diana's spin (I was wondering how far they'd push it -- and then she put her hands over head. So, yeah, pretty far. Heh. The only way they could have taken it further was to have her put a hand up to her tiara, to check that it was there....)

And I too must lament the absence of Aquaman. I'm, um, a fan. And not because, as Schroeder mentioned, he was the hottest Superfriend.

Well, not JUST because he was the hottest Superfriend.

What's particularly dismaying about his laywer-mandated absence is that a friend who saw some early storyboards for this season's eps told me that Aquaman had gotten a haircut and donned the old orange and green. Ah well. Maybe next season.

And if it IS Smallville that's keeping JLU from using Aquaman, then that's even more lousy, because, Smallville being Smallville, the "Aquaman" who shows up will just be some swim coach with a guppy. Who falls in love with Lana. Feh.

Not as far as I know. It's not even true in just the animated shows -- an episode of S:tAS had the Flash, and it ended with both of them in a race. With no apparent winner.

I've been told that, in the comics, Superman is the best at every ability he's got. Others may be as good, but no-one is better. (This leading to one of the many, many things I dislike about Superman, namely, what's the point? Gimme a nice, fallible hero any day!)

I think the cool and creepy tenor is quite effective. I just can't picture a (for example) Michael Dorn-like voice for Grodd. Grodd's manipulative, calm, and cooly assertive, but with a definite rage boiling beneath. In my mind, he's sort of Hannibal Lecter-ish -- well, if you close your eyes and forget he's an ape.


No new eps. for a while?! BOO!

I wish they left us for with a nice intriguing episode to chew on during this indeterminate hiatus. I'm sorry but overall, I found these latest two eps. to be somewhat disappointing. I know JLU has to have a certain percentage of action to appease the tots but I don't watch for the action. In fact, when I watch these eps late a night, those are the parts where I tend to nod off. I'm not saying that I prefer a lot less action but I just wish they were balanced a bit more like they did in "Question Authority". If the driving resolution behind "To Another Land" was to send off J'onn, I'd wish they spent more time with scenes informing his character than dealing with, imo, over drawn-out silly action scenes of flying feds and extraneous fighting (Blue Beetle looking) sub lackeys. But again, I'm (28 yo F) not their target audience, instead I'm the target audience for Desperate Housewives and I hate that show, and shows like it...go figure!

Who was the guy voicing Demos in the the first ep? Did he do the voice of Count Dooku in the Clone Wars, because his Chris Lee imitation is pretty good.

I wouldn't mind, if they were doing re-runs. But replacing it with another hour of anime? Ugh.



I don't think it was. I think sending J'onn off was B-plot at best, but the main purpose of the whole plot was to let the audience in on more of Grodd's plan and set up events so that the JLU knows that something weird is going on, even if they really have no idea what.

That still doesn't quite justify how repetitive the action seemed. Giganta cried out in shocked pain... three times, maybe more? I would think by the third time it would have sunk in, "Oh yeah, I'm big, not invulnerable, and I'm in the middle of a rumble." But then, I don't know much about her beyond her JLU appearances, where she's mainly eye-candy it seems, so maybe she's just really slow.



According to tv.com, Deimos was voiced by Douglas Dunning. His imdb entry is less than enlightening, for me. Tyranus in CW was voiced by Corey Burton, I believe.

Superman is slightly slower than the Flash in the DCAU, both on the air and on the ground. Speed Force tapping Flash is, of course, much, much faster. The reason these guys aren't zipping around at top speed is because there wouldn't be much of a show if they could disarm everyone instantly. Since they can both maneuver reasonably well at super speed they have super fast reflexes (I assume).



I'm a little surprised that they didn't use the Viking Prince's tale to hammer home WW's situation. If she stays in the mortal world she'll outlive everyone, including J'onn. That's a depressing thought for most people, and I don't think having a deep connection to humanity helps when you know that everyone you care about will wither and die while you remain the same.

They've implied that WW does not age (the greek statue that she hinted she was the model for) but have they come out and said it?

On the speed issue, I would say that one notable feature of the DCAU is that both Flash and Superman are considerably slower than they are in the comics. When Flash beat up Luthor/Brainiac by running around the planet at top speed, he appeared to take a second or two for each circumnavigation of the globe -- which is far slower than the comic book Flash would do the same thing. And I think it makes sense for them to emphasize Flash's distinctiveness by not using Superman's speed that often.

No, you're right. For years Black Manta was just Black Manta and we never saw his face and then some point in the 1970s (I think this was during the era of "Black Power") they had him take off his mask and wala - he's black and then he says some cheesy line like "why do you think they call me Black Manta?", though its obvious the name didn't come from him being black but the other way around. In the comics he's a black supremacist who wanted to establish a black homeland of water-breathers under the sea and oh,yeah he killed Aquaman's baby son. He's reappeared just recently to good use in the Aquaman comics. I don't mind the name change but I feel kinda bad about using him in the LoD but with no chance to see a Manta/Aquaman throw-down.

As for the last two episodes I thought they were really good. This is the kind of stuff I like - super-villian action and strange new worlds.I like the classic/new Supergirl outfit (she just looks better in it) and I'm glad Stargirl is getting some screen time and that folks who don't read JSA are getting to discover her. She was modelled after Geoff Johns' sister late sister Courtney and I think she (along with the new Batgirl who we'll sadly never get to see - darn, The Batman) are some of the best of DC's "newer" characters.

So now that J'onn has taken human identity will we gets scenes of Mr. John Jones, Detective like in the comics? Although, technically, thats only one of his human alter-egos.

She doesn't look like a 15 year old girl in it, is how I felt.

I felt like her old costume made her look 13, and this one makes her look 16 or 17. Of course, part of that might be the less childish hair stile as well. And it may be my imagination, but I think they drew her as being taller than they had in the past.

No new episodes for a while after only 2 weeks?? I know I sound like a broken record, but I seriously have a HATE on for the execs at Cartoon Network. Is it really necessary to show Naruto a dozen times every Saturday!!

Watchmen: 09/86 - 10/87
Squadron Supreme: 09/85 - 08/86



Nightshade and Peter Cannon: Thunderbolt (with a bit of Judomaster thrown in for good measure too, I've always thought), actually.

I think Harvey Birdman has done the definitive parody of the ethnic Superfriends. Now including Jesse Jackson. They've certainly gotten more mileage out of Apache Chief than I ever thought possible.

In the comics Diana has forfeited her immortality by leaving Themiscyra. At least that's what I remember but I stopped reading around issue 175. I loved what they did with her reboot post-Crisis but at that point the story had veered so far away from that, I didn't recognize, nor care, about any of the characters anymore. What I think would make a great JLU story, if they were still doing two-parters, is when Diana was elevated to Goddesshood and then decides that she can't stand by and returns to humanity. It could easily be placed within the context of the League.

Ozymandis seems like a mix of both Thunderbolt and Booster Gold, really. His philosophy may come from Thunderbolt, but his willingness to cash on his name is something Booster would do.

But Booster Gold wasn't a Charlton character, so no good. And he first appeared in February 1986, (long?) after Moore would have begun work on Watchmen, so he couldn't have been the inspiration for Ozymandias anyway.

When you have a character who is, essentially a black supremacist and a racist keeping the world "Black" in his name does make sense. I can understand not wanting to get into all of that in the TV show, but I suppose part of the point of characters like Black Manta, Red Skull, Master Man, et cetera is that they are very "un-PC" and that's part of what makes them bad guys.

I was wondering about Viking Prince as well, if he was invulnerable, and he got frozen in ice (where, presumable the freeze would have stopped his metabolism) then shouldn't he still be alive?

His body didn't look aged at all, I kept waiting for him to wake up and look at the sun for a moment before going, "Oh crap."

ETA: If we're talking about non-PC and offensive portrayals I have to say that I found the chubby Japanese fan girl with the very pronounced accent and glasses that kicked Star Girl in the shin somewhat questionable.

What's even worse is Mickey Rooney provided her voice.

I wasn't actually talking about speed of movement as much as speed of thought. In Smallville, Clark frequently does this 'bullet time' thing where he experiences things as if everything else has stopped dead and he was moving at regular speed. In the comics and the Timmiverse he can *move* very, very fast and has fast reactions but he does seem to experience events as if HE'S the one moving fast. I don't think they've ever done the 'city of statues' thing with Superman -- though they have frequently done it with the Flash.


Oh, and sorry for the Watchmen screwup. My bad.

In the comics he has the "bullet time" speed perceptions, the writers often just fail to use it properly. Same deal with Flash actually.

Super speed is just a hard power to use properly in a plot. The fact of the matter is that almost all of Flash's "Rogues" shouldn't last half a second against him, yet the guy with an ice gun can somehow target and fire at the guy who can move at the speed of light so they can fill 22 pages each month. Or the pathetic fight against Deathstroke in Identity Crisis where Slade is able to stick out his sword while Flash impales himself on it, in spite of the fact that Deathstroke should be moving in super slow-mo from Wally's perspective. And I won't even get into the fact that Green Lantern decided, for some reason, to try and punch Slade rather than just trapping him in an energy bubble like anyone with a brain would.

In comic book world the more powerful you are the dumber you are about using your powers. This is the universal rule that allows non (or low powered) guys like Batman, Robin, and Green Arrow to hang with high level people like Superman.

Heck, Batman has an easier time beating a high end super-person than he does an insane clown or a good ninja.

And since this is the JLU thread I'll just point out how ridiculous it is that Flash is often taken down by a normal human sticking out their arm and giving him a WWF style clothesline while he's running by.

The Silk Spectre was modelled on Nightshade? Was the Charleton Nightshade unpowered?

This talk about the Charlton characters makes me wonder -- Have any of the Freedom Force characters (Unlce Sam, Human Bomb, the Ray, Dollman, Phantom Lady, Black Condor... and the red guy whose name I forget) shown up on JLU?

I believe I've seen the Ray in the background of some of those 'OMG the JLU is HUGE!' shots. I think he was standing next to Aztek.

I was wondering about that too, Perfect Xero. What, exactly, killed him? When Grodd gave a rundown of everything to which the prince was invulnerable, it seems like he covered all of the elements. That would really suck if Viking Prince tried so hard to die (a noble death, of course), and the whole time, all he had to do was freeze to death. He wasn't so invulnerable, apparently.

On a related note, once he died, wasn't he supposed to be reunited with his Valkyrie love?

No, the fresh maker, that would only happen if he had earned entrance to Valhalla, which is where Odin had taken her. If he died by freezing to death, he didn't die a noble death, and thus would not gain admittance.

Like I said earlier, He was invulnerable to all weapons, physical attacks, attacks with fire or attacks with cold, ect.

However he could still die from old age, illness, starvation and I suppose he could freeze to death too. Remember, you have to die a "Warrior's Death" to get into Valhalla, which Odin's spell made sure that wasn't going to happen.

His funeral didn't give him a "warrior's death"? Ah, well.

I think he was already dead, so he just got a warrior's funeral. He had a warrior's life and a warrior's funeral, but I guess the death was the deal breaker for the guy.

Of course, if he was just in some coma and not really dead, then the JL pulled the plug. It does call into question just how strong Odin's spell really was. Could the Viking Prince have survived an Omega Beam blast from Darkseid, for example? Inquiring geeks want to know.

On Aquaman and Smallville, from the October 2-8 edition of TV GUIDE:


It's just TV guide spoilage, so nothing shocking, but I fogged it anyway for the pure.

You know, I kept expecting the Viking Prince to wake up from his cold nap and die a heroes death while fighting the supervillians. I was sure that was how Odin's jerk wad spell was going to get beat. I mean, couldn't the weapons of the modern world kill a guy who is enchanted to be invulnerable to the weapons of the ancient world?

Odin gave no protection from nuclear bombs. I'm just saying.

Edited because I found the answer after I posted. Sorry mods.

Jimminy Jillickers! (You're kidding, right? Right?) What struck me about her is how much she resembled the Golden Age Etta Candy -- she was just as short, roly-poly and obnoxious. That's all Supergirl needs: her own "Holiday Girls" sorority of fangirls to follow her around while she's adventuring.

I hated how Stargirl was portrayed. I have every issue of Stars and S.T.R.I.P.E. and JSA (the bulk of her DCU appearances) and I don't remember her ever being this unpleasant.

Or Harajuku Girls, ala Stefani. Yes, that accent was a bit much.



Thanks for the clarification, Harrison Fjord.

Wouldn't her accent be pronounced? She wasn't Japanese-American; she was Japanese! I think it would have been unrealistic if she hadn't had a strong accent.

I don't have a problem with pronounced accents; I do have a problem with caricatured/stereotyped ones. But that's probably more of a problem with an American VA doing a Japanese accent than an authentic Japanese accent.

I could swear we've seen Human Bomb in the background, possibly Black Condor as well. Of course, the modern Ray has made a couple of background appearances. I don't think any of the rest have shown up yet.

The "red guy" is Firebrand.

Oh, and it's Freedom Fighters; Freedom Force is the Marvel group originally led by Mystique and once known as the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants.

So Aquaman won't be around for a while? I for one am happy about this, I've never liked him in JL.

Wonder Woman's lightning twirl costume change was cute. If this is really the last season I'm expecting more winks like this. Viking Prince, fer cryin' out loud! Random!

But I hope it's not the final season since there's so much more material to mine. If they're exhausted by the big storylines, then standalone eps with spotlighted characters will do, and with a whole comics universe to draw from...? (I can only dream that Marvel swoops in to employ the creators on an Avengers series.)