One don't share alot of the complaints about HG-GL. I'm happy they're focusing on some other characters besides the Big 3 (or Aquaman!) and I could do without the wooden characters of Superfriends

I sincerely hope they don't waste any of the time left on Lois Lane. It's bad enough I have to put up with Clark himself.


Well, the big problem was that everyone was saving it. Captain Marvel's book was selling over a million copies a week in the 40s, but it's not like there are a bunch of those issues lying around somewhere.

Exactly. One of the main reasons that those old comics were so rare was that people were recycling everything for the "war effort". Metal, nylon, paper, everything was saved and reused. Not to mention, even after the war, nobody thought that an old comic would ever become valuable, so why not just throw it away? So very few copies of the original Superman, etc. survived, hence their value. But in the '90s, everybody and their brothers were buying 5 copies of every issue and storing them in plastic so there was still a bazillion copies of each issue floating around so they ended up losing value.

Also, just wanted to say that I really liked the fact that Flash gets all tongue-tied around a woman that he's really interested in. Maybe because I do the same thing. I can do the outrageous jokey-flirty thing with every guy I work with because I don't care and the "rejection" is not personal. Get me around a guy that I'm actually attracted to and I look exactly like Flash did in this ep. (Well, except for the costume...)

The JLU version draws most of its background from the Geoff Johns cleanup from a few years back. And I don't think it's complicated at all; in fact, there's a nice simplicity to it. In the comics: A Thanagarian ship crashes in ancient Egypt, Prince Khufu and his consort Chay-Ara get stuck in a cycle of reincarnation due to nth-metal exposure, archaeologist Carter Hall is the reincarnation of Khufu and with a vague memory of that ancient Thanagarian ship, adopts the identity of Hawkman and his wife Shiera becomes Hawkgirl. Not that much different from the JLU version, really. They just left out Shiera in favor of Shayera the Thanagarian.

Where it gets complicated is having to fit the JLA Hawkman, Katar Hol and Shayera Thal into things, but even that isn't too complicated.

Damn. I'm late. Not much to add. I missed the first ten minutes of Legion of Doom. D'OH!



Saw that! Can't wait!

Add me to those unconvinced that the John/Shayera/Mari/Carter love square is anything but a stalling tactic. John/Mari has been going on for two seasons now, and it has never seen as a "real" relationship--the writers have never bothered to write it that way. Likewise, John has never been written as being truly over Shayera--he's been presented as a man in denial, ever since The Once and Future Thing. When you consider the fact that Starcrossed occured roughly two years ago in DCAU time, the whole thing reaches Ross/Rachel levels of ridiculousness. It's distracting, it's overplayed, it's unrealistic, and it runs the risk of damaging all characters involved with (except for Carter, cause he's damaged already for storyline reasons).



I hope this means that there's going to be a shift in how the characters involved as portrayed. As it is now, a "surprising" resolution would be no more satisfying than the obvious one.

As for I am Legion...I liked it. The world needs more flying robot sharks. And less of Lex Luthor.

I'm guessing our Supergirl has grown up a bit - perhaps she's now a full-time member - and has ditch that obnoxious baby half tee.

Is the Batman/Superman movie in a part of JL's continuity? If so then Lois knows who Batman is.

Quick, somewhat OT question. In watching the Boomerang B:TAS/ S:TAS hour I wondered if WW even guest starred on either show? It would make sense, except that after the last incarnation of the Superfriends but before Justice League, she had no real animated presence so how would she have looked?

Nope, as far as I know/remember the first time we see her in the Timm&Crew-verse is the premiere of JL. I've always presumed that the alien invasion of the premiere ep. was her first superhero adventure outside of Themisyera (sp?).

While I don't think that it's ever come up explicitly, I think it's safe to say that all of the previous Batman and Superman series are in continuity unless we hear a statement to the contrary.

The question about WW does make me wonder about Theymiscara (also sp?). The pilot implies that very few people know about it, yet in the highly advanced world of the DCAU it shouldn't be possible for Lost-like islands to exist. I suppose I can buy some sort of magical shielding, but this didn't stop non-magical folks from stopping by on occassion. Also, after WW's appearence it seems like everyone knows about the island now, so why hasn't anyone tried to take it? The Amazons aren't that tough to beat if you have advanced weapons or superpowers, and most of the Olympian Gods seem loathe to interfere directly.

Disagree, politely. Just like REAL LIFE, men and women keep each other dangling for YEARS. Who haven't heard of a man and woman dating each other for over 3 years(or more) in REAL LIFE? It happens and it happens alot! Betcha, asked any of your buds how long they dated a "girl or guy" and I bet some of their answers(truthfully) would surprised you. Heck, in high school I witness many times, one guy dating different girls! Unrealistic? Hardly.

John/Shayera/Vixen NOT Carter(we don't even know if he'll be back) isn't the first time we seen a triangle animated. Remember Robotech and the Lisa/Rick/ Minmei triangle? Trust me, this wasn't something invented for JL/U, its been shown before and will continually.

I will agree, though that John in denial about his true feelings about Shayera and I'm sure their storyline will be tied up before the end. I think even Vixen, knows how it'll end.

Dated mrs. clarkins for three years before we became engaged.


Forgot who mentioned it after I did but the only thing I look for in the 50 cent boxes at comic stores/shows is something that looks interesting to read.

I gave up collecting comics back when I was a teenager. Anything I had I'd bought at Walmart or gotten from a subscription so I wasn't going to get rich off it and when we got married we needed the room and the money so I sold what I had off to a buddy.

True and the soap opera might have worked if the show was still focused on the original seven but by expanding the cast/roster to literally dozens of characters (most of whom who have so far just been seen and not heard), focusing on the love life/sexual tension between just two isn't really fair.



I agree. But the real question then is not why is John "still with Vixen" (as if he is in total control of that relationship, which is a little sexist) but why a very successful (in the comics), independent, famous model like Vixen is still with Mr. Green "I'm still hung up on my old girlfriend and I can't decide" Lantern? I don't see her as a doormat. She could do better.

Well, it could just be uncharted (I can't remember how big Themiscrya (sp?) is), or it could be protected by the kind of magic that lets people through every so often. Gorilla City is the same way - it's deep enough in the jungle that everyone just assumes it's uninhabited, so prior to its discovery, nobody ordered survey planes or satellites to check it out.

I think the UN granted them recognition as an independent nation. You're right that whatever nation previously claimed the waters they're in might have complained, but I guess the Amazons won the debate.

Well, Elongated Man is already taken, but I suppose Booster and Vibe are both available . . .

...at least in this world thankfully.

Yup. It is in continuity.

For me, that was the most stalkery thing about him. It read like he'd been devouring interviews with her and had a little shrine set up at home. I bet John Hinckley knew what Jodie Foster liked to eat, too.


He's in the opening credits, at least. So they haven't forgotten about him.

I doubt it's supposed to come across that way. That was clearly the moment where Shayera realized he could be telling the truth.

I disagree. For me, that was clearly the moment where Shayera realized he could be completely crazy.

I guess this is one of those cases where animation is limited in its ability to convey emotion. Widened eyes and gasps of breath can be taken in more than one way.

The the JLU continuity at least, I thought Gorilla City was under a cloaking shield that rendered it invisible to satellites and such.

As far as Vixen is concerned, do we even know how invested she is in the relationship? They've portrayed her as modeling in her "off duty" time and being pretty cosmopolitan. If she finds Jon attractive and wants to have some good times with him, as if fits into their mutual crazy superhero schedules, fine. But it seems she's not unaware of his residual feelings for Hawkgirl, and we don't know how she'd react if she merely felt it were the right time to break things off.

I think Shayera's next line of dialogue can be interpreted two ways as well. When she asks Batman if he thinks she's an idiot, obviously it refers to the little bat-tracer, but I also took it to mean that she wasn't buying Carter's "I know everything about you because we were together in a past life" spiel.

I'd say you have a point if she hadn't said "maybe it isn't nonsense" and then looked back at the remains of the tomb. Once Carter told her the story, she joined Batman and GL in believing he was merely an obsessed stalker. I don't see how her reaction or the ending do anything but cast doubt on that assumption.

Come to think of it, you'd think these characters (even Batman) would have an extraordinary ability to suspend their disbelief. As the Finn Brothers would say, anything can happen.

Yeah, especially since Hawkgirl went to Hades with WW. It's as if eps with magic/mythology involved don't really occur. Everyone has got to be skeptical once things like reincarnation are brought up.

Edited because is and are aren't interchangable.

Don't you mean "isn't interchangeable"?

I hope not. :)

True. In fact, Hawkgirl even brought that up in this episode: "Yeah, because we all know that aliens don't exist" (or something along those lines).

I think Hawkgirl is conflicted: Carter could be a crackpot, or he could be on the level. Personally, I figure he's on the level, if for no other reason than that most of the other millions of DC characters on the show are pretty much who they are in the comic books. I expect to see Hawkman come around a few more times this season and end up "proving" himself. And probably punching Batman at some point.

But there'll be tension from not knowing whether this guy's nuts or not. I wonder if Shayera is on good enough terms with anyone on Thanagar to check the historical records.

I hope Star Saphire does something interesting this season. I'm seriously enjoying her past appearances.

After reading the most current Green Arrow comic, I'm interested in seeing some more Dr. Light II.

I don't think that there's any dispute of the egyptian facts. The issue is how crazy Carter is, and it certainly seems like his brain was scrambled, although he denied it. That being said, he's not evil or anything like that, so we'll see if Shayera decides that he's her type. Oh, and Thanagar was conquered and presumably the cities were destroyed.

I'm not 100% sure about the animated world, but in the comics all of the world governments are aware of Theymiscara's existence. But most maintain a civil relationship with the island nation.

As for why no one tries to take it, I personally would not attempt it. The Amazons are all far stronger and tougher than any normal human, they have access to mystical weapons, and an invasion may draw the wrath of the goddess Athena. Zeus might not interfere, but I bet Athena would.

Plus the JLA would certainly come to help. I can't think of any reason why someone would attack Themiscyra, except to destroy the Amazons. There's nothing really of value there, except a few magic weapons.

Aren't the Gates of Doom, which lead to Tartarus, located on the island, or is that just part of the animated universe?

Yep, sure are. IIRC, entering the gates and descending into the Underworld played a major part in the War of the Gods crossover, or maybe the storyline just before that in WW's book. I do recall that she met and freed Heracles there.

I seem to recall that Princess Diana is widely known as hailing from Theymiscara -- there was one episode in which she met up with another princess (one far more care-free than Diana). The story involved a plot by, um, the immortal guy (you know, cannot be killed, caused Supes to go a few thousand years into the future once?) to take over the care-free princess' country and marry her.

From that episode, I got the distinct impression that Diana is essentially her country's ambassador, but they have virtually no dealings with any other country.

Myabe Wonder Woman island is out of reach like Pitcarin island.

Really? Because, from what I heard she pretty much got her ass kicked by the real Dr. Light.

Just exactly what do the Doctors of Light hold doctorates in and where did they get their degrees? Same question for Dr Midnight.

Is Robert Hays the voice for the original Dr. Light, always liked him for some reason.

The story as I understand it is that sometime in the '40s (or thereabouts) a Thanagarian (non-winged) came to Earth, hung out with Hawkman, was inspired by him, traveled back to Thanagar and started the whole hawk police corps. So Thanagarian tech causes the creation of Hawkman on Earth, who then inspires the creation of Hawkman on Thanagar -- and the Hawkman and Hawkwoman of Thanagar have nearly identical names to the Hawkman and Hawkgirl of Earth. That's where I think it gets pretty damn complicated. (Either the Golden Age or the Silver Age origin stories are fine, but when you have to combine them... it gets a bit iffy).


Both Drs. Midnite were medical doctors before becoming superheroes. So they at least came by the name honestly.

The female Dr. Light was an astronomer; IIRC, she got her powers while studying the star Vega. The male Dr. Light was some kind of generic STAR Lab scientist, I'm guessing a physicist or maybe an engineer considering the suit he & his partner built. Both of the Dr. Mid-Nites were surgeons, and the female Dr. Midnight was the original's medical student/protege.

Well yeah, but the story seemed to insinuate that her powers were weakened because they were out of practice. But that aside, I just think it'd be cool to see a female hero on JLU who was more than just brawn...we've got lots of warrior chicks (and oh yeah, a model...random). I want to see a detective/scientist - some sort of intellect. Don't get me wrong, I like Diana, Shayera and even Supergirl (despite the baby tee) but why can't we have a female counterpart of Bats or even J'onn.

I'd be fine with them actually using Stargirl instead of just showing her.

I agree and I think we'll see some more couples. But for now, I think GL/HG has it "locked up" in the ship dept. LOL

Who knows. Maybe its a question best asked to a counselor or shrink.

Personally, I think John is afraid of being hurt again and with Vixen, its easy. With her career and league duty, Maybe her and John, don't spend too much time together, where things could get complicated?

Exactly. Thanks!

Speaking of undeserved titles, how about all those captains? I know Captain Atom was actually a military officer, but what about Captain Marvel, Captain Cold, or Captain Boomerang? Isn't there a federal law that prohibits impersonating military or law enforcement personnel?

Say, doesn't she have a "featured" episode, this season?

I think it's coming up on Saturday along with Supergirl.

ETA- Yup. Also features Green Lantern. It's called "Chaos at the Earth's Core"

Here's a cap of Supergirl's new cossie:

http://www.stx-superhero-report.com/JLU_SUPERGIRL.html

And here's a good general Who's Who:

http://jl.toonzone.net/whoswhojlu/whoswhojlu.htm

An interesting point is made on that page about the presence of Waverider. In the comics, Waverider's a time traveller from 2001 (er, make that "ten years in the future") where a member of the Justice League has killed all the others; assumed the identity of "Monarch" and enslaved mankind. Waverider's come back in order to work out which Leaguer is destined to become Monarch and then kill him. It turns out to be Hawk, BTW, though there's a twist where it turns out Waverider's been manipulated by Monarch all along. Waverider's presence opens a channel that allows Monarch to fulfill his destiny -- to travel back in time, murder Dove and allow himself to be beaten to death by Hawk. A series of events that unhinges Hawk's mind and causes him to take his dead-future-self's armour and become Monarch

That could be a *very* cool storyline for JLU to play with. Even better if they mix things up by making it clear early on that the identity of Monarch is actually different than in the comics.

Anyway, does anyone have a screencap of the villainous Dr. Light from the new ep?

I doubt they'd want to touch the Monarch debacle. His real identity was Captain Atom, but they changed it after people found out about it early. Let's just say that one isn't exactly a fan favorite.

Is the villianous Doc Light actually appearing on JLU? I thought the Teen Titans folks had alreadly claimed him for their own and he was going to reappear in their new season.

In fairness, Waverider was actually from 2030. Its just his horrible future didn't come about until 2001. Waverider wanted to go back in time to 2001, but failed and landed in 1991 where he figured he'd just get the job done early. I wonder if the idea is that Waverunner is here to stop the apocolypse, or if already has. I'd suspect if the JLU team were to tackle the Monarch story, they wouldn't feel it necessary for Hawk (or Captain Atom, for that matter) to turn out to be the villian. On that premise, a completely different Monarch may have already come and gone.

If I had done the Monarch post-story, I would have had Hawk remain a hero, but give him Monarch's technical knowledge and armor. Then you could have had a decade of "sure, he's a hero now, but Waverider says he'll be a villian by 2001" angst, followed by a new super-crisis in 01.

So I'm the only one who likes the babytee?