I just can't see them snickering.

I'm curious, is there some kind of S&P rule about the context of "hell" that says whether or not a show will get its rating bumped up or not? I ask, because I remember years ago on Gargoyles, Xanatos (the main villain) making the remark, "Pay a man enough, and he'll walk barefoot through Hell." To my knowledge, it was still rated Y-7.

Any info on this, Dwayne? Or was that just an example of S&P being erratic as usual?

So, was last week's episode the last of the season? I have a hard time keeping them straight.

No, this Saturday's ep. on CN is the season finale. I did get a chance to see it (relatives in Canada who wanted an excuse to use their new dvd recorder) and I have to say, I think it may be my favorite DCAU episode. It's very character and dialogue heavy, and since I can take or leave the action element of the show this episode seemed tailor made for my tastes. Good stuff!

I can see HG making a comment about "the package" though.

Most women I know have no shortage of comments about the packages of their men. I can't wait for the ep on Saturday. How come Canada gets it first? Does the company behind the show Canadian?

Huh?

DC Action Universe? I'm not sure what this abbreviation means.

And the fact that WW and HG would snicker or raise an eyebrow or look amused is what makes it funny. I could totally see them doing this.

Hawkgirl? Sure. Wonder Woman? Not her style, she'd be completely unphased.

Hawkgirl would do a glance and a unimpressed grunt. "Less talking, more hitting!"

DC Animated Universe.

Clearly they just like us more. Not sure about who owns the company though.

Nah, that can't be it. I'm guessing it's either part of the NHL settlement, or possibly some sort of test to make sure that the show doesn't cause seizures in young children before they show it in the U.S.

Meh, whatever. We still get to see it first.

Maybe this is to make up for the aborted Alpha Flight cartoon.

Aborted? You mean they were actually considering doing one and then didn't!?
GAH!!!

Hawkgirl would. So would the Flash.

Sarcastic shot at Canada and the CFL of supergroups.

This is from All The Rage. Minor spoilers included in the text below. Everything is a long way off and shouldn't ruin anyone's enjoyment, but read at your own peril....

http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/rage/index1.htm

In regards to the spoilers. I don't care for the Teen Titans animation. I hate the exagerated face they make on that show and that show is no where near as fucked up as JLU/B:TAS/S:TAS. I know people don't like Timm's work. I can understand from a writing standpoint but from an animation standpoint I LOVE his work.

I'm amused because the only part of the Teen Titans that I don't liek is the animation.

I don't see why the Legion of Superheroes can't have a series on the same time as JLU. It would be the same as Teen Titans not having any continuity with JLU. Or why not just have LoS been an offshoot of TT instead of JLU. While TT can be great at times, at it was with The End, I still want my Batman and Flash fix.

Those spoilers have been debunked by Mr. McDuffie on his forums, so I'd ignore them.

So, no Legion show at all, then? Now I'm depressed...

Yah! Hawkman! Woo hoo! (Unless the spoilers are bad).

I'm conflicted. A Legion show would have been a natural even more so than JLU perhaps, but done in the TT animation style? That would have been a disaster in my opinion and a disservice to the characters.

Y'know? I'm almost beginning to think that the Y-7 rating is some sort of running gag. The raw, physical violence, while visually stunning and entertaining, really pushes the envelope some times. However, Dwayne and the Gang have done a superb job of pushing things just far enough and leaving the rest for the audience to fill in. Honestly, I'd love to see how this creative team does on a TV-PG or TV-14 series.



Wait, didn't we only see the "shadow" of the gun, falling across Flash's forehead? I don't think the barrell itself, pressed against Flash's noggin', was ever shown. I think they got away with just enough. Anymore and the rating would've probably gone up.

Here's something I've always wondered: just how many adults are tuning into JLU?

Yeah, yeah. I know, CN only cares about the 6-11 tweens and 9-14 teens that are watching. But with all the *winkwink* dialogue, innuendo and cameos of Silver/Golden Age characters, Dwayne and the Gang know us older folks are watching. I'm just curious what the numbers are, as little as they may be.

I hate the look of the Teen Titans and have never sat through an episode voluntarily because I hate the animation. I figure, it's a cartoon if I hate the look of the animation it is best to steer clear of the whole thing. Justice League looks good, has a great story and has excellent voice work, do you need more?

He truely is a douchebag for thinking Timm's work is "tired and dated", his shit is way better than any of that Japanime crap.

It truely is awful. Superheroes should not be doing that big face expression crap that's so prevalent in anime. It's juvenile, poor animation.

I couldn't agree more. It's a shame DC doesn't have a say. Because clearly their characters look better in Timm's style. Which is what I think DC would want.

Hm... tried to post last night, but as I hit the button, I lost my connection during the big giant storm that blew through town.

But did any other 30-somethings yell "Sinistar" when the decoy Brainiac/Lex rose out of the skyskraper?

And am I misremembering, or wasn't there an episode early on where Flash tripped over a pebble which caused him to wipe out? How does that fit with him being able to race around the world to get up to super speed? Or, should I just not worry about it?

34 and yes.


in response to bossu's informal poll, I'm 34 and watch. I have a buddy that's late 30's that watches as well with his 7 year old.

.....

WTF?

Teen Titans is vile. I get nauseous from looking directly at it. There's nothing wrong with Timm's iconic style. If it's TT-style, it'll just look like more derivative Anime-ripoff garbage, like The Batman. They have a distinct, recognizable product. Why would they want to wreck it up like that?

I only know adults who watch it. But then again, I really don't know any kids. When/if I become Aunt Mer, I can't wait to introduce my niece/nephew to the wonders that are DCAU cartoons and the Muppet Show. Really, I will be vital to this hypothetical youngster's developmental education. :-)

Speaking of adults watching DCAU cartoons, my friend expresses his love for B:TAS by telling the story of how he skipped out of the tail end of every 1st year med. school gross anatomy class to get home in time for B:TAS. That's dedication.


re poll: 27

I appreciate shows that are for children that aren't dumbed down, but I don't see how many children would get the nuances of JL's/JLU's plot. They certainly don't know the expansive history of these superheroes and villains (I sure don't!). I hope I'm not selling children short in that regard. I guess I've never seen JL/JLU as a kid's show, compared to a show like Animaniacs, which is very much aimed at both children and adults. I felt the same way about B: TAS. I thought Toonami was targeted at young adults, anyway. That's why I find the whole ratings thing a little...amusing.



Not all anime is like this... There's lots of anime that's quite adult and doesn't have these characteristics. JL/JLU could look really dark and noirish in some of these anime styles, without the big eyes.

But not nearly as well as Timm's style. That just so perfecly matches the JLU. But most of the anime shown on CN is just shit.

Yeah, I actually agree with you. You know a Timm show just by seeing it. I do miss the dark look of B: TAS, though, and wish they were still using it. Didn't they draw it on black backgrounds? Or am I making that up? Any episode with the Question should look pretty gritty.

Artwork for the upcoming JLU DVD unveiled:

http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=4145

Okay, WTF? Forget "DC Kids Comics Collection" and the fact that the characters seem quite off-model, but why is Aquaman on the cover when he doesn't even have a speaking role in any of the three (only three?!?!) episodes. Heck, I'm not sure if he even appears in any of the three episodes.

Exactly how are they releasing these episodes, anyway? They certainly aren't in order of first airing, but they don't seem to be in order of production code, either. Damn you, WB, for not releasing full season sets!!



While I agree for the most part, I thought there were quite a few stinkers in the first season of JLU that lacked any subtlety whatsoever. In particular, "Hawk and Dove" was jaw-droppingly bad in this regard. Not only was the dialogue pandering, but the annihilator was fueled by rage? I swear I thought they were going to hug it to death.

All this talk of Watchmen upthread made me go and hunt down an old copy at the library. If the Watchmen movie ever gets off the ground, I hope they consider Jeffrey Combs for the honour of playing Rorschach. He's already got the Question down pat!

Topic? I don't follow the Flash comics but Wally taking out Lexiac totally reminded me of poor Barry Allen's demise on Crisis on Infinite Earths. I am so glad the others managed to pull him back.

"I can never go that fast again..." --> almost broke my heart.

I dunno, I find the animation in Teen Titans kinda refreshing. It's good to get different styles, I think, and not have everything by Timm style. Not that there's anything wrong with Timm style because I love all the shows we've gotten over the last 10 year or however long it's been. But not every DCAU property has to look like that. And this comes from someone with no real love of anime.

About the only complaint I have about the TT animation is that the extreme stylistic differences make it impossible for them to do a JLU/TT crossover.

Now, that said, I would prefer any LSH series to be done in the Timm style. I want my Legion to be serious, not wacky and cartoonish, if that makes any sense at all. But that doesn't mean I don't still love the Teen Titans show and style.

Even the style of The Batman, which I hated at first, I've gotten used to from my infrequent viewing of that show. I hate a lot of the new character designs, but the actual animation I no longer have as much of a problem with.



It really is too bad that Flash hasn't been Barry all along. It would be great to have had him sacrifice himself to stop Brainilex and then next season we could see Wally step into the role. That would be some good stuff right there.

I dont think you need to know the entire history of the comic book DC universe to enjoy it. I was 12 when I first watched B: TAS and my sister was 7 or 8 and we both loved it so I think you aren't giving kids the proper, um, props on what they can/cannot understand or enjoy. Yes, some kids still prefer their pokemon to JLU but there are loads of kids out there who are as big fans of JLU as my sis and I of B: TAS. So in any case I think it IS still a kids show at heart. The themes may be more adult than you remember from old school 70s or 80s cartoons but look at the trades in your local comic book store, a lot of them have adult themes now that they didnt have back in the good ole days of Action Comics. So I think its just the evolution, pushing the envelope and with it bringing the audience along with it whether they may be 10 or 50 years old. My sister and I have followed the entire DCAU universe ever since B: TAS to the JLU and now I'm a 24 year old kid who still loves em cartoons just like I loved em back in the day.

Does anyone else find WW's expression very, very creepy? Yeah, why IS Aquaman on there? Wouldn't Green Arrow be a more logical choice?



True. True. I'd actually forgotten about this episode until you brought it up. The bar fight was good, though. After Green Arrow was hijacked in the first ep., didn't this ep. further hint at the fact that the League was getting too big for its britches? WW was a little too authoritarian, IIRC.

It is kind of odd, J'onn would have made more sense. I also don't know why they are unable to update their pictures. There are plenty of promotional pictures from all seasons of JL/JLU. Don't they know that GL has embraced his inner Sisko and that Superman no longer looks like he needs to eat a sandwich?

It's not the bug eyed expressions, etc. that I take issue with in anime, or any cartoon duplicating its style. Heck, comedy is one of my favorite genres within the form. And I've even come around to Teen Titans' more kid friendly mix of action and comedy (It has enough serious and surreal moments for us fans of animation in general.). No, it really is that, like others have said, that the Timm style is better suited towards JL/U and its more serious ilk. Having Sam Register, who to my knowledge already has his hands in the pots of The Batman and Teen Titans, take over is out of the question IMO.

Would it kill them to release the full seasons?!

Aww, why so much bashing on Teen Titans? Now, I admit that I'd rather rip my arm off and beat myself with it than consider Teen Titans and Justice League to be in the same continuity, but Teen Titans by itself is an entertaining show.

Hey, you know what would be cool? A crossover between Teen Titans and Justice League that involves dimensional travel. The Titans could transport themselves to the Justice League unverse and meet their counterparts. The Justice League versions of them could be older and more serious, it'd be neat to see what would happen. To bad it couldn't happen though, Nightwing doesn't seem to be allowed to be on Justice league so Robin doesn't get to meet up with his older version.

I caught Hawk and Dove last night. I really do wonder how anyone could take Dove seriously.

I like the Hawk and Dove episode, although that could just be because I've seen it about thirty times now. YTV loves that ep.

I like the Dove. I mean, he's for the side of justice, without doing any harm.

I watched B: TAS as an eight-year-old, and I thought it was the bomb. So I don't know that kids weren't into it. I didn't have any trouble following it, and never missed and episode if I could help it.

Even the original Ninja Turtles was less crappy-anime than Teen Titans.



I wanted to punch him in the mouth. Why did he have to beat up those guys in the bar anyway?

I looked through the old posts for questions that were asked after the Canadian airing of "Epilogue," and thought I'd repeat them here:

• Who was Waller's grey-haired assassin?
  Andrea Beaumont, aka the Phantasm. She was Bruce's former flame/foe in the animated Batman movie, "Mask of the Phantasm." Umm, I hope you watched it already. As far as I know, there was no significance in bringing her in as the assassin, aside from fanservice.
• Wait, Waller's plan makes no sense whatsoever. Go over it again.
  As Waller tells Terry, she got hold of Bruce's DNA ("He left it all over town-- Not remotely what I meant."), then injected nanotech into Terry's dad that would alter his reproductive genes so they would match Bruce's. The reason Waller chose the McGinnises in the first place was because they fit the same psychological profile as Bruce's parents. Never mind that offspring, much less clones, don't actually retain the memories and/or experiences of their parents. Of course, perhaps DCAU science is much more advanced than ours.
  
  Anyway, Terry was born and Waller hired an assassin (apparently Andrea's new chosen profession) to kill Terry's parents to set Terry on the course to becoming Batman. Only thing was Andrea couldn't kill Terry's parents because "Batman would never commit murder, and you can't honor his legacy by resorting to it yourself." Waller thought about killing them herself, but she knew Andrew was right and just let the McGinnises be. "Luckily," Terry's dad was murdered a few years later and blah, blah, blah, tragedy-cakes. Whether it was fate, coincidence, or contrived storytelling, Terry would become the new Batman.
• Is Terry Bruce's clone or son?
  According to Waller, the nanomites changed Daddy (Warren) McGinnis' reproductive DNA only. Thus, Terry is technically just Bruce's son and not a clone.
• Does that make Matt (Terry's younger brother) Bruce's son, too?
  Yes, this has been confirmed by Dwayne McDuffie at his message boards.
• What was with all those black-and-white sequences? Flashbacks?
  It has been confirmed by Dwayne McDuffie that all of those sequences were just supposed to show what Terry was considering on doing. That's why Terry's date with Dana is still on at the end of the episode. Why would Terry "consider" a fight with the Inequity Collective? Uhh... this question session is over.

Okay, it's been a few weeks since I saw the Canadian airing, and to this day I'm still not sure how I feel about "Epilogue." On one hand, it was unbelievably fun, and the fanboy in me loved all of the little references. On the other hand, parts of the episode (namely Terry being Bruce's son) felt extremely forced.

Although I loved the previous four episodes, I couldn't help but feel that Cadmus ended up being nothing but a cheap ploy to link the episodes together. Having Luthor/Brainiac seemingly pop up out of nowhere, while a nice surprise, just undermined the potential of Cadmus. Having Batman Beyond piggyback on the Cadmus arc just broke the camel's back for me. It all felt like one glorious fanfic, meant to have us go "ooh" and "ahh" and point at all the little references so we could go, "I know where that's from!" While there's nothing inherently wrong with that, I just came out disappointed that all of that setup was practically for nothing. Of course, YMMV.

On to the good. CCH Pounder's performance as Waller was incredible, and I loved hearing Will Friedle as Terry again. Also loved the scene with Ace. Very poignant, and possibly my favorite part of the episode. Oh wait, never mind, the "On Leather Wings" reference at the end was my favorite.

Dammit! I missed the episode. Someone please tell me they're going to repeat soon.