I had no idea! Ha! I love learning about these things!

Thank you, Lantern7 for the description of the 'speed force' and thank you Zerowing for explaining what happened in the scene!

TO: Dwayne McDuffie
FROM: Gobsmacked Viewer

Please do whatever it takes to get layouts and storyboards from Divided We Fall onto eBay. Be sneaky, if necessary.

Oh, and find the nearest Warner exec, grab them by the lapels and shake them a couple of times until they give up a JLU Complete Season Boxset... with commentary tracks. Yes. That would be splendid.

Thank-you.

He was also Deadshot in the "Task Force X" episode and Ghoul in the episodes with Kronos, a character he played on Batman Beyond.

Was Ghoul in anything Batman Beyond related besides Return of the Joker? Can't recall, and I imagine I'd have a hard time forgetting his great Christopher Walken sound-alike.

How good was this episode? Superman saw Lex naked, and I didn't get a realy titter out of it.

Lex: What's the matter? Never seen one of those before?

Superman: (holding Lex by the neck) You combined with Brianiac, threatened us and the world, and Flash just winked out of existence...and you think I'm looking at your other bald dome?

Lex: Heh...how did you know I shaved down there? Turns you on, don't it, alien?

Is that what he was doing with this hand when he punched through his copy?

Pretty much in agreement with what everyone said, great ep. Particularly enjoyed the continuity with S:TAS in regards to how Brainiac infected Luthor. I'm always amazed though that there's never anyone in these buildings as they're being destroyed. I know, it's a cartoon and all, but these are huge office buildings.

As for next season Even though the LOD idea may seem kind of cheesy, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt since they did quite well with the Cadmus storyline. I'm going to guess now that the LOD is actually a front for someone bigger, and he's using them to distract the JLU from his true intent (Darkseid perhaps?)

Seriously, how does this shit keep getting made? Timm's universe is JUST FINE THANK YOU. We don't need the TT and The Batman continuity. They just suck.

Something I forgot to mention: while it seems likely that they'll be building a revamped Hall of Justice on Earth for next season, why didn't they just rebuild the original Watchtower and have teams work from there? People disliked the new one because it had the big gun, not because it was floating in space. Given the occassional alien threat it seems to me that having an outpost in orbit is a sound idea, and the original Watchtower not only lacked the big gun, it didn't require a large staff to operate.

It's also convenient that the magic users of the JL were incapacitated or unavailable, since we've seen all three of them teleport people around.

Total nitpick here, but I'm doing it anyway. He said, "You've got my number" and she said, "I think I do." I thought her comment was more about understanding him than it was about her actually having his phone number.

I do! I have the same odd feeling towards her that DaisyDuke has for Green Arrow. I thought it was a little messed up, but then I realized it was because she reminds me of Mrs. Macc. A lot. Except the wings.

As far as this episode goes, absolutely loved that it was Flash saving the day. Loved it. Loved that little miss angry is also the first one reaching into scary holes in time and space to save a friend. Loved that Lex was a dick from start to finish. It was just a whole lot of fun.

Yes. Really, the Flash is one of the most powerful Justice League members. His comic version is even more impressive. There was an issue of JLA where a nuclear ballistic missile was about to strike a city, and the Flash evacuated every last man, woman and child (500,000) from the city in less than one pico-second.

He's really too powerful for his own good, so the writers occasionally have him do dumb stuff just so he's not completely invincible.



It wasn't so much about the gun, it was the public perception of the Watchtower. That these "god-like" superheroes were high above them like the Gods of Mount Olympus. Superman wants to make a down-to-earth headquarters that accessible to the general public. He wants to give the perception that the League is among them and part of the community.

I didn't mean to infer that it had to do with his phone number, the line was all about its subtext. And I took it as semi flirtacious, thus letting us know that Batman/WW thread has not been forgotten. Also, I used single quotation marks - I paraphrastically quoted.

See, this is why I try not to nitpick. I always come off as a weenie. I didn't mean to infer that you might not be on board with the subtext. Sorry about that.

I meant to point out that by including the word "phone" when you paraphrastically quoted, in my mind at least, it drastically changed how one might interpret the line. I would interpret "You've got my phone number ... I think I do!" as much more flirtacious than "You've got my number ... I think I do!" With the former, it sounds like they might be discussing a potential booty call, and with the latter, it sounded to me like she was saying, "I think I know what makes you tick, tough guy, and I like it!

Of course, I have a track record of being way off with this sort of thing, so I'm probably wrong.

Is it wrong that after seeing Flash save the day, I want a Flash series, ala Batman and Superman? He's always been much more fun to watch than GL or WW.

This weekend I saw some pics of the Black Canary JLU figure that's coming out next year I guess. Whee! Now, if we could just have an all-Black Canary JLU episode--or at least one where she kicks GA to the curb! I much prefer the Ollie-less version of Dinah that's in the comics these days. At the very least, I'd love to see a Black Canary/Wonder Woman "World's Finest" type of episode. BC should have been one of the JLU founders instead of Hawkgirl, IMHO.

Plus another big problem with the Watchtower is the lack of accessability. Highlighted in this last episode: the teleporters were down, the Javelins were wrecked, so everyone in the Watchtower was just stuck there, unable to come and give back-up. (A bit contrived-- why could Supergirl go out the window? And I'd bet Zantanna could get back to Earth somehow.)

This never seemed to be a problem in JL. But seriously, there are easy ways around that. Keeping small groups on the Watchtower would minimize the issue from the last episode, and ensuring that someone like Dr. Fate or GL are on there most of the time renders the teleporters moot. There must be escape pods as well.

As for public perception, I think that they could easily be convinced that having a small orbiting station is well worth it. Everyone apparently loves Superman again, so he could just put in a good word.

To me, this one simple scene signalify(sp?) why I was against the JLU concept; the 'family feel' of JLA S1 and S2. We had scenes of Supes drinking coffee with Bats in the Batmobile, WW going out clubbing, GL/Flash eating and looking at the Flashmobile, MM spending xmas with Clark family, and GL/HG getting into a barfight!
Man, great scenes like that was what made me LOVED JLA! But JLU just drew them farther apart, IMO. It became all business.

I also enjoyed seeing that kind of interaction between the characters every now and then, and I hope there will be some of it in the upcoming episodes.

As for the "wink wink" moment between Batman and Wonder Woman, that scene also included Green Arrow and Black Canary getting ready to ride off together, the episode ended with a Lois & Clark scene, and there was a reminder of the GL-Hawkgirl relationship during the battle with the JL doppelgangers. The only thing missing was a Huntress/Question scene, but I guess they had enough time in the episodes leading up to this one.

Anyway, I agree that the animation in this episode was really good, that it was interesting that they managed to get away with showing Wonder Woman destroying a skyscraper by throwing a plane into it, and that it was a good idea to give Flash a big role in this episode. Also, I like that they didn't forget about Amanda Waller (it was totally in character for her to be discussing an air strike with the president), and that J'onn got to do something useful in combat (freeing the team from the tentacles of doom).

If Amanda is Mrs. Waller, where's Mr. Waller?

In the kitchen, barefoot, baking a damn pie!

No, actually, I have no idea, but wouldn't that be in character?

Maybe he was killed by a metahuman.

I bet you that pie is all kinds of yummy. You know Mrs. Waller wouldn't be shy about expressing her opinion if she didn't like his cooking.

Murdered, IIRC, leaving Amanda to raise their kids by herself and get an education and a government job (as a congressional aide or something) at which she excelled (and how!) and that eventually landed her in her current position. At least, that's the story in the comics. For some reason, I think her husband's name was Joe.

I'll see if I can't find the Who's Who issue that details her.

Okay, here it is...

Amanda Blake grew up in Chicago's Cabrini-Green and married Joe Waller at the age of eighteen. They eventually had six kids. Joe Jr. was a promising young basketball player who was killed by street thugs. Six months later, one of Amanda's daughters was raped and murdered. Joe stalked the man he thought was guilty and they both died in a gun battle in a bar. Amanda sent her remaining kids to college and then got her own degree. She went to work for a man who was later elected to Congress. While doing some research, she came across records of the original Task Force X and managed to convince the right people to fund a new department.

The rest of the history given for her in Who's Who, Update '88, issue 4, p13 gets really involved in the history of the Suicide Squad series and probably isn't very relevent to the JLU show. She is described as "one of the slickest operators in American government" and talks about the "considerable influence" she wields in US intelligence circles, as well as her "strong budgetary ties to Congress". In other words, she's a big-time player.

Word. I can't believe Dwayne got away with the BFG blast and smashing a plane into a skyscraper in the space of three episodes, in a Y-7 series. (I actually have to keep remembering that it's Y-7; I love it, but I probably wouldn't let my 7-year-old watch it).

- For a second, I thought Luthor was going to save Flash and get another pardon.

- I loved this episode, although it seemed a little abrupt. It might have been better to let the Brainiac fight stretch out over 2 or 3 episodes. Also, the voice acting for Green Arrow has been great up to now, but the final "don't quit" speech seemed a little forced.

- It might have been nicer of Superman to give the Watchtower to the UN or something. It certainly would be an upgrade from the international space station. (Still, I was hoping for a scene where Supergirl and Captain Atom solve the "no transport" problem by lowering the entire space station down to the battleground).

- Superman's going to set up an "Embassy" somewhere on Earth? I don't think he's over the ego thing yet.

This goes back to the Justice League International comics that started in 1987, where the League set up embassies in different countries around the world, complete with small staffs and teleporting devices to respond quicker to international emergencies.

He can call it whatever he wants, but the JL needs a HQ of some sort if they are going to continue functioning as a team.

In any case, the GA speech and subsequent applause was a huge ego stroke for Superman: GA said that that the world needed him specifically, not the original 7. Plus, everyone but Batman was giving him a standing O at that point. I'd probably feel a rush of self importance as well.

Plus, he is, technically, still an alien, so "embassy" isn't that unusual a way for him to look at it.

Yes, but the embassy is for the whole League to use, not just him.

Plus Superman's has spent virtually his entire life on Earth. He should be considered a naturalized citizen by now.

Hawkgirl and J'onn are aliens too, and Wonder Woman is from anouther country.

Back in those days, the League had some kind of UN sanction, IIRC. They weren't so much of a country as they were a UN agency.

Maybe that's what Superman meant here, but the first thing that came to my mind is that in his opinion, the League is its own country - soveriegn and not subject to national laws.

Also, Starman and Supergirl are aliens, Aquaman is a foriegn soveriegn, Booster Gold is from the future, Red Tornado and Amazo are androids, and I'm sure there are plenty more.

Does anybody else get excited when they see Nemesis in the background? I'd love to see an espionage episode, with Nemesis or the Unknown Soldier.

That's a fantastic bit. Wish I'd thought of it!

I recently bought the first two years of John Ostrander's Suicide Squad off eBay (for an amazing price), and I'm really loving Nemesis. He seems like a really honorable guy on a team full of supervillains, mercenaries, and generally damaged personalities, and I love how he is a master of disguise and can just pop up anywhere. However, I read a Bruce Timm interview where he said Nemesis was one character they just got "stuck with," when they couldn't get the rights to use some of their higher choices.

It took my second viewing for me to catch that Superman says, "I wish to hell I were." Thought that was a bit strong for the Y-7 rating as well, unless the episode got a higher rating that night.

Not that I'm complaining. I love the balance they strike between the audience it's "intended" for and the audience that actually watches it. :)'

He says "I wish to heaven I were."

At least he did on the version I saw.

YES! The Cartoon Network censor strikes again! (SEE: "Cowboy Bebop", "Gundam Seed", etc.)

As they pointed out in the Men In Black cartoon commericals, he's an illegal alien.

Actually, I was amazed that they got away with having Lex point a friggin shotgun at Flash's head, that's usually a big no-no even on non-Y7 shows.

(It was still cool, though.)

They had a naked Lex, which I thought wasn't acceptable for Y7 even though you didn't see anything. I was almost expecting a convenient shrub or something.

*grin* Why use a shrub when you can use a superhero? First Flash, then Supes. I didn't even realize he was in the buff until my second time watching.

And as for the Superman line...once I heard what he began to say my eyes grew really large. They use hell as a curse on CN? I asked myself. And then they had him say "heaven" instead, which got a huge laugh out of us.

There was serious discussion of Cartoon Network allowing Green Arrow to say "Like hell you are" to Superman after Supes breaks up the team. I'm not sure it would have happened but it was a definite posibility. The staff decided against pushing for it when we realized it would have given us a different rating for the last episode of a four-parter. That's really unfair to young viewers who had been watching our Y-7 rated show all year, and might not have been allowed to watch a TV-PG or possibly even a TV-14 rated finale. We backed off.

You're shitting me. Saying "hell' will bump you from Y-7 to TV-PG or TV-14? That's unbelieveable.

Well, to be fair the show tends to get away with a lot. Aside from the previously mentioned Javelin toss, they often show realistic guns firing bullets. Most other shows in this genre have lasers shot out of funky looking devices that have a passing resemblance, at best, to an actual gun. They've also made some pretty racy innuendo (for a cartoon), especially between GL and HG back in the day.

Green Arrow ogled Galatea's boobs on the video when he and Question first infiltrated Cadmus. There's also the oh so subtle innuendo during Vixen and HG's conversation about the contents of GL's drawers (the clothes drawers, although the other type of drawers certainly applies). These are off the top of my head. So, I'd say the writers have gotten away with a lot, and good on 'em!

Sexual innuendo won't bump up the TV rating for a show marketed towards kids, but "hell" will. Does that seem backwards to anyone else?

Maybe the argument is that if it's truly subtle innuendo, the kids won't understand it anyway. I agree though, they get away with alot with the tricky word play and the *wink wink* and it's the best thing about the show to me. Those moments always hit me and I realize this show is for adults too.

I watch it with captioning on and my Closed Captioning said "hell".

Which is part of the reason I love this show, it can actually do subtle.

I actually liked Supes wishing to heaven. Gave the remark more weight, like he was taking the comment very seriously to suggest wishing to heaven.

Overall, the balance they strike is perfect. Its genuinely a Y-7 show, but with plenty to make the adults in the audience to appreciate. Kids don't like being talked down to, either, so I imagine they like the maturity even if the sexual inuendo flies over their heads. Besides, its all be quite subtle. You'll know if it you know, but if you don't it won't even occur to you. There is a very nice sexual inuendo in the Epilogue that is perfectly played.

Vixen might as well change her code name to Rebound Girl.

This didn't bother me in the slightest, and I didn't even think of a 9-11 reference until here in the thread.

I guess for some of us, it's not what comes to mind, and must be the kind of mindset the censor was in, too, that he/she just didn't see it.

As far as a naked Lex, he was covered by strategically based arms and capes, so again, I didn't think it was that bad.

Now, had Hawkgirl and Wonder Woman started to snicker, that would have been awsome.