It's her stepfather and I think the reason she and Pat were made a team is that Stargirl's creator Geoff Johns (writer of JSA, Green Lantern and Flash) is a continuity nut who loves the golden age characters. Heck now that he's writing JSA he pretty much controls all of DC's golden-age characters. I think Geoff wanted to tie her in to all of the characters in DC's past instead of just creating a character out of the blue with no ties. Courtney Whitmore (aka Stargirl) is very important to Johns, she's modelled and named after his little sister Courtney who died in a plane crash. I'd love to have a Star and S.T.R.I.P.E centered episode. In a way she's a little like Disney's Kim Possible, what with being a popular cheerleader and gymnast HS school student by day and super hero in her spare time.

That's it. I want a KP/JLU crossover now.

I was bored tonight, so...

Here are the various heroes who appeared in "Panic in the Sky" (besides the founding 7):

Stargirl, Pat Dugan, Ice
Supergirl, Steel III
Fire, Metamorpho, Black Canary
The Question, Huntress
Red Tornado
The Ray
Aztek
Supergirl, S.T.R.I.P.E.
Crimson Fox, Hourman (probably II, not I), Ice
Aztek, Supergirl, Stargirl
Atom Smasher
Shining Knight
Vigilante
Fire
Starman IV, Dr. Light II
Steel II, Wildcat, Hawk (behind Wildcat)
Hawk's back (sorry, no good frontal shots of him)
Sand
Blue Devil
The Creeper
Obsidian
Captain Atom
The Atom
Booster Gold
Dr. Mid-Nite (I or II, I don't know)
B'wana Beast (this was the best I could get of him)

Awsome rooster! Thanks!

I can't believe the Creeper appeared. I didn't realize he was actually a "hero" now. I always thought he was kind of in that blurred line of good and evil, at least according to TNBA.

I must thank whomever provided the Wikipedia link. I've spent hours on that site just reading all the backstories on B level heroes.

Question which no one has answered yet: Who was the member of the Ultimen that was in red, white, and blue? Which Superfriend was he based on?

Thanks roosterboy! I especially appreciate the vidcaps to put a 'face' with a name.

Re: the list - man, with Aztek, the Ray, Dr. Light, Stargirl, and Supergirl on station, it would take *a lot* of Ultimen to beat them.

I didn't have a problem with the Ultimen's relative weakness - they were all fresh clones without independent minds - it's not surprising that they couldn't fight at 100%.

There's actually a very good issue of the JLU comic book where Batman and the Creeper team up against the Madmen (Blue Beetle villians known for their irrationality).

Who's who in the JLU

Great list, roosterboy! I went through last night, and there were five that I just couldn't identify (Aztek, Starman, Dr. Light, Steel (II) and Bwana Beast), and I didn't even see the Blue Devil. (All I could see of Bwana Beast was the red helmet and horns, and I wondered if it was the Red Viking).

And I'm nearly positive that was the second Hourman, because they showed him activating his Miraclo power using the transdermal patch and not by popping a pill.

Here's a question: I've missed huge swaths of JLU and JLA (it was my DVR that finally got me on track, since Cartoon Network's scheduling of these shows is so moronic). Have they ever made reference to any of the actual Golden Age heroes? (Other than Wildcat, who I guess is still actually the same guy from back then).

That one is named Wind-Dragon. He based on Samurai. And Samurai's wind powers were basically ripped-off from Red Tornado.

The first season episode "Legends" touched on it, in an old school Earth-2 sort of way-- a bunch of the League fell into another dimension where they met the Justice Guild, who were the comic-book heroes they had read when they were kids.

"The Savage Time" hit some Golden Age points, namely the Blackhawks, Sgt. Rock and Steve Trevor.

But the only true "old hero" we've met in JLU so far is Wildcat, though several of the JSA characters are around, obviously. Of course, some of them might be the "golden" version, and we just aren't explicitly told. Also, how can Obsidian be there without there having been an Alan Scott?

Schroeder:



That was Starman #0, the very first issue, originally published in 1994. So you started reading right at the beginning. It's my all-time favorite series, and you could do a hell of a lot worse than picking up the "Sins of the Father" TPB right now. Take it from another law school graduate and lifelong comic book reader.

I'm totally positive it was him. Hell, I'm such a comic geek, when I saw him slap his wrist, I shouted "Yeah! Transdermal patch, baby!" Luckily nobody heard me, because I live alone with two cats. (Like I said, comic geek.)

Actually, I believe all of James Robinson's Starman has been collected in TPB. I really was disapointed that they went with the Prince Gavin version of Starman. But Stargirl has his cosmic rod so I can live with it. 'Cause Stargirl is cool that way.

Considering their leader was distracted by a stupid, selfish personal vendetta instead of working for the good as she seems to believe she's doing, I'm actually surprised they were able to fight at all.

You're not alone. I did think it was interesting that almost all of the extra heroes they showed were either from the modern JSA or from the late-'80s JLI. I wonder if that was a deliberate choice?

Like Dr. Mid-Nite. From what I can tell, the cartoon version's costume more closely resembles the GA Doctor, but we've never been told one way or the other which he actually is.



The final volume just came out a couple of months ago, in fact. But there are still, IIRC, one or two issues that weren't in the TPBs.

Thanks for the link, TimeMonkey!

Flash was only good at communicating with the other League members whenever he got smacked down by an irrefutable point by a non league member he usually froze. He definately has a lot of potential but the way he's written so far he's good at acting as a conscious for the League but not as a diplomat.

No problem. I found that site like a month ago but I kept forgetting to post it.

Coolio. I saw it on the DC website and "download" a PDF file of the first issue, but for some reason, I always have the hardest time telling which TP comes first and which one doesn't it. I wouldn't know where to start. Golden Age/Silver Age/Post-Crisis.


I live at home with my parents, older and younger brother and four cats. And I'm 28.

So who wins?

Check out http://www.tplist.com . Tells you which TPBs exist, which issues are reprinted in each, and what order they go in. It's a great resource!

He has shown plenty of teamwork and diplomatic skills with the others regardless of how badly damaged he is when the chips are down. It was he who recommended to J'onn that they remain understated when on the surface helping the people following the incident with the cannon. He just hasn't been given as much of a chance in a leadership type position like the others have.

I'd love it it if really was the GA Doctor (Charles McNider, who was killed in the comics a few years back), since he was always my favorite Midnite. It could be possible I suppose, the Dr.Fate they've been using is the original GA Kent Nelson version even though Kent and Inza are also technically "dead" in the comics and Hawkman's son, Hector, is the present Dr. Fate.

As for Starman, Jack Knight would have been great to see on JLU but I hear that DC has a standing rule not to use him without James Robinson's permission (since he created the character of Jack) and that's why he's hardly seen in any DC comics since Robinson retired Jack as Starman. A better question is why go with the Prince Gavyn version of Starman when they could have used the GA Starman (Ted Knight, Jack's father) who has a very distinctive costume. I mean if they could use the Golden Age Dr.Fate, why not the Golden Age Starman?

And let me echo the greatness of the Robinson Starman series, one of the few comic runs with a beginning, middle and end - it would make a great movie (the TV series version for ABC they were planning apparently never got off the ground).

Ah, touche.

Topic? I wonder what the exact deal is with Luthor/Brainiac. Did Luthor unknowingly have Brainiac lurking inside him, or is this even the real Luthor at all? I'm looking forward to finding out, anyway.

I thought Luthor was surprised - it looked to me as if he had no idea why his kryptonite cancer was in remission.

(OTOH, he didn't seem very surprised to have superpowers. Maybe he thought the whole thing was a reaction to kryptonite).

I think they may not have the rights to use most Golden Age/JSA characters with modern counterparts, which is why we saw the "Justice Guild" analogues in the first season of JL. Since then, we've seen the modern Hourman, modern Mr. Terrific, and who I must presume is the modern Dr. Mid-Nite, as well as Stargirl (and STRIPE) and Atom Smasher from the modern JSA. We've seen Wildcat and Vigilante, two true Golden Agers, but they've never had distinct modern counterparts worth mentioning. I'm sure they don't have the rights to the Golden Age Flash or Green Lantern or we would have seen them by now, in some form or another. Dr. Fate appeared back in Superman: The Animated Series, so he could be "grandfathered in," for all I know.

As for why they used the Prince Gavyn Starman, I am assuming Timm is a big Steve Ditko fan, which is why they used the Creeper back on The New Batman Adventures (and ever-so-briefly in "Panic In the Sky"), and why the Question has featured so prominently on JLU.

Another reason they're probably shying away from the GA Hourman is his power comingin pill form. That could be testy with standards and practices,

I think they generally have the rights to all DC characters, except in those instances where a) the character is a modern creation and the creator wisely kept some rights to him/herself and b) the rights to the character were given (permanently or temporarily) to some other entity as part of some other production deal. Unless there was a relatively recent attempt to put together a JSA movie (which seems doubtful to me), I would imagine the rights to the golden age JSA members are unencumbered.

However, I can easily see the creators of JLU wanting to avoid diluting the identities of the core team members by having similar antecedents hanging around. Which is why I think they have probably consciously decided to not having GA Green Lantern or Flash show up. I mean, for decades the comics themselves have had to go through major continuity gymnastics to make this kind of thing work -- it starts getting a lot harder to explain in the limited format of a 22-minute cartoon.

Also, some of the characters, such as Robin and Batgirl, or Nightwing, are tied up, as DC does not like to dilute anything. With Robin on Teen Titans right now, he's not going to show up here.

I know that when they decided to launch the new Superman movie, they were wary, because Smallville was on the air; they didn't want to dilute the exposure of their characters, so that the one thing that was out at the time, be it a TV show, cartoon or movie, is the only version that the public saw, so that it had to be good no matter what and that audience members couldn't compare and contrast, which might be a negative.

This was in Enteraintment Weekly, and I had never thought about it before.

So why is Batman on JLU, "The Batman" and "Batman Begins"?

If the only version of Batman we had at the moment was "The Batman," that would kind of suck. I'm all for dilution.

The issue with the JSA and the use of stand-in characters to represent them was primarily because that episode was designed to mock the classic conventions of comic books and they didn't want them openly mocking characters that are still actively used and published. In a different context, there is nothing to stop them from choosing whatever version of a character they wish. I suspect since they have largely been background fodder that their primary intent is to go with the most visually dynamic and/or relevant incarnation. Its no surprise that they saw fit to avoid the GA Mr. Terrific as his costume would be deeply out of place. For others, its not so certain. Also, given the masks, its quite possible that there are other elder statesmen heros like Wildcat. Indeed, I think we can safely assume that there are at least a handful of other middle-aged heros in the JL.

I'm not a fan of the dilution concerns with Batman on JLU. While I could understand them not wanting to use Nightwing/Robin/Batgirl all of the time, I'm disappointed that they seem to be off limits as they all could have been very valuable supporting characters to tell Batman's story. That and "The Batman" sucks so I'm annoyed that they've grabbed exclusive rights to Bruce's rogues gallery.

1) Beats the heck out of me. Maybe Warner Bros. is trying to cash in while the iron (or at least Batman) is hot (or something).

2) Word.

Well we know from interviews that Blue Beetle, Plastic Man, Phantom Stranger, and Animal Man were off-limits, as well as the Batman rogues and supporting cast, and anyone related to the Teen Titans.

I didn't realize The Batman series had rights to the rogues gallery. But didn't we see Clock King recently on JLU? Or does it only apply to A-listers (Joker, Two-Face, Penguin)? I guess it does kind of make sense not to have his enemies though. While I can suspend my belief long enough to buy that non-superpowered Bats can take on some of these villains, I don't see how someone like Penguin would last 5 minutes with any of the JLU.

We should just consider ourselves lucky that Batman himself was permitted to stay on JLU. While Superman is the main man in the Cadmus arc, it just wouldn't be the same without Batman to provide a strong counterpoint. The rest tend to just defer to Superman. This also holds with Batman, although Superman is usually a bit more polite when he's calling Batman out. It's too bad Superman wasn't allowed to say anything when Batman was calling his idea stupid.

I find it strange that they could do a shout out to Plastic Man but not include him in the show. I'm not sure why Animal would be off-limits, though I can see good reasons to pass on both of them. AM is so associated with Grant Morrison's run that it would be next to impossible to include the character in a meaningful way. Besides, his powers are so similiar to Vixen's that its really a one or the other situation. I understand Blue Beetle has some legal issues surrounding him so I assume that's what keeps him out. I could have sworn we saw Phantom Stranger, though, but I'm probably getting the wrong. I know there was somebody with a Cameo in the WonderPig episode who was either often misidentified as Phantom or was often misidentified as someone else when it was really Phantom Stranger.

A number of DC heroes started out in books published by other comic companies. Over the decades, DC acquired either the companies or the particular characters, but sometimes certain rights to those characters were held by other people. I know that Blue Beetle was a Charlton hero (although Charlton originally bought the character from another company) -- I imagine his animation rights were either sold to some other company by Charlton before the DC acquisition or were never acquired by DC. I think the same is true of Plastic Man and Animal Man.

The Question was also a Charlton character, so that doesn't quite explain the lack of Beetle. Also, Charlton died so long ago that I doubt the company sold any animation rights.

It goes back to a Blue Beetle radio show from the 1940s, where the contract supposedly covered "any future media rights" to the character -- even though that Blue Beetle was a completely different character. The Blue Beetle most people know, Ted Kord, was created by Steve Ditko at Charlton Comics in 1966 or '67, and was only connected to the Golden Age Blue Beetle (Dan Garrett, a Fox Comics character brought back by Charlton around 1964) later on. Nobody knows the true story behind the Beetle situation, but the radio show is what everyone agrees on.

Captain Atom and the Question are both Charlton characters DC acquired in the mid-1980s, same as Blue Beetle, but even though they can appear in the show, they are off-limits for any merchandising (such as action figures by Mattel).

Captain Marvel, a character DC acquired from Fawcett Comics, is also off-limits for merchandising, but they were able to use him for that one episode. However, Plastic Man (a Quality Comics acquisition) had a cartoon show of his own in the 1970s (from Ruby-Spears, IIRC), so it is likely he wasn't allowed to be used in JLU because the contract for the Plastic Man cartoon kept him out of other media projects.

Animal Man is a DC original, as is Phantom Stranger. And I'm pretty sure BStu is remembering the Crimson Avenger from the Zatanna episode of JLU... dark suit, fedora, red cape, and red domino mask. He has appeared in crowd scenes a few times so far.

I heard Alan Moore wanted to use the Carlton characters for The Watchmen, but couldn't get the rights so he used the characters as models.

Beetle can't be shown because of the old (1940?) radio serial. Somehow, that affects the rights to future broadcast versions, though I believe the contract expires in 2007. I'm thinking it's because the Blue Beetle wasn't originally a Charlton character, but was put out by Fox Feature Syndicate and later (50's, I think) was purchased by Charlton.



No problem with the rights, as those heroes had recently been purchased by DC. The problem was that Dick Giordano, who had once worked at Charlton and apparently still had a soft spot for the characters, didn't like that Watchmen would basically make those heroes unusable in the main DCU and so Moore was asked to change them.

We've seen Inza already, so I'm assuming that's Kent. I don't remember if they've ever used his name outright, but I think the Superman cartoon did.

I'm pretty sure the name Kent was used at least once by Inza. I think so, at least.

The dumbest thing to come out of the everything-Batman (except Batman) being off-limits to JLU is the use of Nightwing (the 1st Robin all grown up). There's something like zero chance that "The Batman" will ever get to the point of using Nightwing (they might not even use Robin) which means the character won't be appearing ANYWHERE (Chris Nolan has already said there are no plans for Robin in future movies) even though NW is an established character in the DC Timm-verse.

As for the Justice Guild, apparently that episode was originally written/planned with the GA JSA in mind but DC President Paul Levitz nixed it himself (rightly IMO) because he thought it mocked the characters. So they made up variations of JSA characters instead.

Teen Titans has used (and may still use) Nightwing.

They did? But hasn't it been heavily hinted that the TT Robin is Dick? Or was this some kind of TT ep. set in the future?

I don't think this is right. I remember Captain Marvel action figures. Moreover, there was definitely a Captain Marvel cartoon - most definitely a cartoon, not that Shazam-in-a-van sh*t.Yes, and yes.

Its been as good as stated that TT Robin is Dick. The future appearance of Nightwing is one of the best pieces of evidence.

I'm also dubious about the suggestion that Captain Atom can't have products made of him. DC Direct has made him as well as Captain Marvel. Perhaps its an issue that they don't *want* merchandise being made because they'd have to pay out more in liscense rights, as opposed to something that just can't be done.

I believe I read somewhere that DC Direct can make products of guys like Capts. Atom and Marvel but they can't be licensed to other companies. DC Direct gets to because, well, they're DC. But a company like, say, Mattel couldn't.

At least, i think I read that somewhere. I just can't remember where.

I don't get the exclusion of Phantom Stranger. What's the worse that could happen? He appears out of nowhere, and Green Day plays "Boulevard of Broken Dreams" over and over?

BTW...the Starman as seen in JLU appears in The Rann/Thanagar War. He's got the blue outfit from after his stint on Adventure Comics, as opposed to the red uni in JLU.