I don't remember the character ever appearing anywhere. A little help?

I've been very unhappy with this entire season. Reading the spoilers for the last couple of episodes just cheese me off immensely.It all turns into Batman Beyond? Fuck that. JL was miles above this crap.

Eh. To-MAY-to, to-MAH-to. Letting ex-teammates get tortured is a no-no. Did he even officially resign from the JL or just disappear? Either way, started out the episode liking him, now think he's a creep.




Not that I remember, I think they were always that way.

Yup. Government sanctioned torture and following orders. Heavy. I hope the writers don't burden themselves too much with it, because I check out when a show goes all Chris Carter on me and I really just like the big cosmic fights, mostly. And character resolution, like is there an explanation for how Red Tornado is sauntering about JL Headquarters after being completely obliterated last season?

Red Tornado is a robot, so he was probably rebuilt off-camera.

For the most part, Red Tornado is a machine. I figger that someone just got Flash to pick up all the pieces and re-assembled him.

Plus, if I recall, in the comics Red Tornado used to get destroyed on a pretty regular basis in the 70s and 80s.

Reddy doubles as a vacuum cleaner, so they need to keep him repaired.

Maybe a wizard fixed him.

Regarding Epilogue:

Count me as someone who actually enjoyed this episode. I've always enjoyed Batman Beyond, and it didn't bug me to learn about the DNA thing. Waller got some great lines, like the stuff about the China set, and CCH always delivers.

I agree, and so would Cap. He was told to stop Superman from illegally taking a prisoner out of Cadmus custody. There's no reason to think he was aware of the torture, as he wasn't Question's guard. He did know that Superman and Huntress had broken into a government facility, rather than go through proper channels to secure Question's release. Captain Atom did the right thing, based on the information he had.

Saw part of the repeat. Gotta love the military dogpiling on Superman...like they could do anything. What, they didn't think of throwing their useless rifles at him?

Just realized...Cap's a Charlton character, same as Question. Is it design that those two starred in the plot? I mean, I'm not talking a semidrect homage to Watchmen. I just find it nice, is all.

After reading about how awesome Justice League has become, I finally buckled down and decided to watch the series. I love that it continues the storylines developed in BTAS, STAS, BB, and TNBA. I'm currently on Starcrossed and I'm fairly impressed with the show thus far. That said, WHY THE HELL haven't they shown what happened to Dick Grayson? in BB: ROTJ Barbara tells Terry that he should look up Nightwing for some whacked out stories, indicating that Dick and Bruce had a huge falling out between JL and BB. Why has this not been shown?

Did anyone find it stupid of Supes to be doing a mission "off the books" and storm in wearing his costume. Not exactly the most discreet way of handling things.



Well Huntress has been intimate with Nightwing in the comics and she doesn't know his secret identity.



Possibly because the rights for Dick Grayson are either tied up in Teen Titans or The Batman (I'm not sure if the Robin on TT is Dick or Tim).

And yes the Huntress/Batman series by Rucka is collected in a TPB. It does feature the Question (though he is a very different person than the one shown in the cartoon), but the Huntress is the main focus of the story. A pretty good read, especially if you like Huntress.

Just chiming in on the latest ep. Loved the continuity from S:TAS recalling his mindf*ck from Darkseid. I never saw the Justice Lords ep, and it seems like so much of this season has been centered around it, that I feel kind of lost by it. From reading the boards, apparently Luthor is now Brainiac or something? Perhaps someone can explain?

As far as Epilogue goes, just be happy they didn't decide to throw Static Shock in there too.

My bad about the spoiler tags. I thought I had read it on here, unspoiled, meaning it had already occurred in an ep.

Hey Samsnee,

I highly recommend that you put spoiler tags around your Luthor speculation. Unless you're magically on the same wavelength as the writers there is no way you could jump to that conclusion without the spoilers from our Canadian friends.



It struck me as a very Batman-like action, only executed the Superman way. In his defense, I think Superman realized that Cadmus is hardly in a position to complain to the authorities, and his goal was search and rescue, not destruction.

Ironically, Mattel does not have the rights to make the Charlton characters as action figures, so as much as people have been clamoring for them (and they have, I swear!), that means no Question or Captain Atom toys or merchandise.

Even more interestingly, the events of the cartoon have been mirroring the recent DC comics to a large extent, and in the comic Countdown To Infinite Crisis, another Charlton character stumbles onto a large-scale conspiracy against the superheroes: this time it is Blue Beetle (who has another analogue in Watchmen). Lex Luthor, Amanda Waller, and Maxwell Lord are also involved in the conspiracy in the comics, but so far it is playing out much better in the cartoon.

With regard to the files the Question stole, were they all simulations? I did not recall from the Justice Lords episode that (just in case) Luthor had killed Flash just that Flash had been killed.

As I recall, it was not established in the Justice Lords episode that Luthor had killed Flash, personally; but it had been heavily implied that whatever the crisis was that spurred the White House raid had (a) been a direct result of something Luthor had sone and (b) involved Flash's death. By my read of the subtext, I would actually have thought it wasn't a hands-on thing, or the dialogue would have been phrased differently.

I agree. But looking at it from Superman's point-of-view, there's no way in hell they could have gotten the Question out by doing it "legally." After all, the stuff they are doing in Cadmus is supposed to be top secret. The government would probably deny they even had the Question in custody. From Supes perspective, he saw no other alternative but to go in and break the Question out.

Dwayne, I think you did a very slick job of putting both CA and Supes in a sticky and problematic situation in which both believe they are doing the right thing. We know there's going to be a hell of a fight next week. I'm looking forward to it.

Okay, I couldn’t hold out…I downloaded the remaining JLU episodes. And because I watched them into the wee morning hours I’ll have to watch them again to try and string together a proper analysis but for now I can say: WOW!’

However, I do have a question about Epilogue:

My downloaded file for Epilogue started right at the episode title where Terry was staring into the clock right before he smashes it. Did I miss a preceding scene? If so, could someone describe it to me?

Also, regarding Divided We Fall:

So, we finally get a Lois and Clark scene and going into it all signs point to a ‘Clark is Superman’ revelation…I mean, c’mon it’s about time they’ve been seeing each other for a “few years”. And then…nada…yes, we get a nice poignant ending but...but…oh, and I love how Timm and crew even played us there for a second with Clark adjusting his glasses as if he were going to take them off a la Superman the live action movie. It’s lucky for them that there’s going to be a next season so that they can rectify this mini mind-fuck [/shipper rant]

Unless Cap can generate kryptonite radiation, it's going to be an ugly fight. My guess is that Cadmus would wait until Superman got outside before springing Cap on him.

And, of course, Superman could just super-speed out of there, taking Question and the Huntress with him, but I'm betting he won't.

Random question - Superman knows about the kryptonite bullet that General what's-his-name threatened to use against Kara, right? Isn't it fairly brave to just stand in front of a Cadmus gun and dare the guy? (I'll fanwank that (1) Supes x-rayed the gun and (2) the bullet is not lead, so he could be sure there wasn't kryptonite anywhere in it.).

Random question #2 - who was the mad scientist torturing Question? Psycho pirate? Hugo Strange?

I don't know about Kryptonite radiation but he can generate red sun radiation, which I think weakens Superman (I'm not entirely sure how Supes' powers work and what affects them).

I believe it is Dr. Moon, an old Wonder Woman villain.

It wouldn't weaken him, it just wouldn't replenish his "battery" like a yellow sun would. But if Cap is able to keep him locked underground long enough to drain Supes' power levels, it doesn't matter whether he's producing red sun radiation or not. The key isn't getting Supes under a red sun, it's getting him away from a yellow one.

The kryptonite radiation theory is an interesting one, though. I don't think I've ever seen it used before, but then I don't know why it couldn't work without the writers resorting to a massive deus ex machina or really incoherent technobabble.

Heh, then I must be telepathically linked to Timm, because I called it before the episode with the revelation even aired. Then again, I also speculated that Mr. Mxyzptlk was also somehow involved, but that unfortunately turned out to not be the case.



YTV messed up the airing. They apparently accidentally showed some snail olympics (I kid you not), which is why there was no opening.

Slightly OT, but I just watched "Speed Demons" from STAS for the first time in years, and I've gotta say that whoever voiced Flash in that episode has got nothing on Michael Rosenbaum.

Harrison Fjord:
Green Lantern did it back in the 80s. (Or maybe it was Hal in a dream sequence, or Amazo using Hal's ring, or Hal using the ring against Amazo - I can't remember the details).

I don't know how much control Captain Atom has over his energy, or how complicated kryptonite radiation is to generate, but he might be able to do it.

Where did you do this? I can't wait either.

I don't know about the cartoon, but in the latest issue of Superman/Batman Captain Atom seems to be able to make kryptonite radiation just fine.

I believe you're thinking of the current comic version of Superman. I believe the cartoon version is based more on the old Pre-Crisis Superman who got weak when exposed to red sunlight. I recall a Superman episode where some aliens used concentrated red sunlight on Superman and his powers dwindled very rapidly.

Also, Captain Atom can absorb any kind of energy, so he could just suck the solar energy right out of Superman's cells and weaken him. So when you consider Captain Atom's energy powers, plus the fact that he's nearly as strong and durable as Superman, he'd give Superman a very tough fight.

Hmmm... pre-Crisis Superman sucks. But I see your point. Timmverse Superman is a major dick, and most of the comic book Superdickery happened pre-Crisis.

Still, I think I'd rather have Captain Atom create Green K radiation rather than get into the whole red sun/yellow sun thing any more than we have to.

CN really needs to re-air that Justice Lords episode at some point: not only is it one of the best (if not the best) story from the original series, the constant references will drive people nuts if they missed it the first time around.

They reaired it like two weeks ago on YTV.



The Thanagarians used red sun radiation to weaken Superman during the invasion.

Seriously. I missed it. I get the gist of it from all the references, but I think they can spare a Teen Titans time slot now and then.

Why is Canada getting all the good stuff? Early episodes, reruns of classic eps. Pffffft.

Because we're cooler than the rest of the world?

Stupid Canada ;-)





At the risk of sounding incredibly passe... big ole WORD! From what I understand, JLU is doing quite well ratings-wise but they treat it as if JLU is its red headed step child. WHY?!

Yes, but wind chill isn't everything.

Technically it's pretty hot here at the moment, at least where I am.

Personally, I want to see more of the old villains from the first two seasons. Why haven't the injustice gang been doing anything? You'd think that when all th heros banned together the villains would try something similar.

I don't want to speak for Timm, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's because he can't use the Joker right now, and IG without the Joker/Lex dynamic just isn't much fun.

The Joker doesn't have to be there. They could just stick someone else in his spot, and Grundy's. 'Cause Grundy's dead.

Any nation that unleashes Celine Dion upon the rest of the world will never be cool. We don't care if you guys were sick of her, that was just cruel.

Topic? I got nothin'.

She's just the first step in our plot to take over the world. Either surrender or we'll clone her!

Well, let's see...Do you think any Canadian supers will show up on JLU?

By the way, are there any Canadian supers in the DC Universe?

As for the latest episode in the USA...I was concerned earlier in the season that there would be too much emphasis on standalone episodes, but I'm pleased to see that we're getting an actual story arc. I think the was Superman was portrayed was interesting. He wasn't a total idiot, but there were indications of his arrogance and blindness to his own flaws. It seems that the lesson he got from the Captain Marvel incident was that he was right all along about Lex, and not that he needs to examine his own behavior.

ETA I forgot about Jimmy, but I did notice how he responded to Lois Lane's comments. He seems completely oblivious to both his own flaws and the possibility that the public could turn against him. He didn't bug me as much as he did in the Captain Marvel episode, however, because at least he didn't demolish a city.

Would that include being a dick to Jimmy and leaving him tied up while he chatted with Huntress? God knows he can't carry one thought in his head, let alone enough to multi-task his way through talking to Huntress and getting Jimmy out of the chair.

And I like Superman. Just not JLU Superman.

HEE!

You know I'm trying hard to stay on the Supes bandwagon because...well, he's my first crush (technically Christopher Reeves as Superman was my first crush) but you know, Supes should be in my top three male heros shortlist right? But because of the JLU and my exposure to new superheros, Supes is quickly losing rank. Batman will always be #1 (is there a more complex hero out there?) but Question and Green Arrow are quickly rising to the top. Hmmm...maybe I just don't have a thing for superheros with superpowers.

I've now rewatched Epilogue. Now that it's been confirmed that the black and white sequences are just fantasies/day dreams, the episode has made a much greater impact on me. It concentrates the theme and allowed me to focused on the Waller story. And I think I can now say that they Ace/Batman flashback scene is the most poignant Batman scene I have ever seen and that includes the whole of MotP.

The two elements of the ep. that I've been mulling over is the infusion of Bruce's DNA into Terry's ummm...surrogate father and the blatant reference to the Judeo-Christian scripture. I may be wrong about this, but this is the first time the DCAU has ever directly referenced any of the world's major religions. For the most part, they've stuck to mythology, or an amalgamation thereof. I guess that just threw me out of moment for a few seconds because I've never associated comic book fantasy/sci-fi heros and their worlds with religion. I've always placed them in a very ambigeous agnostic cultural setting.

And as for the DNA infusion. Well, being an X Files fan I can't help but equate what happened to Terry's father to Scully's removal of her ova. So, basically poor Mr. Terry's father was medically raped in a way. And he was the surrogate to TWO sons. That's just squicky.

You should check out "Quiver", the Green Arrow run written by Kevin Smith.

But, but, that means no Mark Hamill!

The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Plastique, who was originally a Quebecois separatist terrorist.

Maybe there was one in the Global Guardians? I'll have to get back to you on that.

Yeah, according to their Wikipedia page, the Global Guardians had a Canadian member: Centrix. Unfortunately (fortunately?), I know nothing about this character as he/she apparently appeared in an issue of Justice League Quarterly long after I quit reading that title.

But a quick look in The DC Comics Encyclopedia (p67), reveals this about Centrix (who is a he): "Projects invisible energy force waves in equal and opposite directions from his body; carries arsenal of small pellets and other projectiles propelled by force waves." It also says he's "one of Canada's few public super heroes". He operates out of Ladysmith, Vancouver Island and is a rich bastard who funds the GG and practices New Age philosophies. He definitely looks like a Liefeld/Lee/Charest-type creation, complete with extraneous straps, pockets and shoulder pads.

Sounds like a real winner.

I dunno, could it be because JLU's drawing the kind of demographics that Toonami's advertisers AREN'T quite looking for? *shrug*

For all it's Y7 enjoyment, this show seems more at home preceding [adult swim] programming; which, funnily enough, it does, for its 10:30PM repeats.

The problem is they only do that once or twice a week, whereas shows of more dubious quality (or, at the least, overexposed airplay) like TMNT and Teen Titans are run daily. If JLU ran every night at 10:30, I'd be happy. It doesn't have to play during Miguzi or Toonami, but I'd like to see them run it more than twice a week (with one of those airings being a rerun of what they showed during the first airing).