Kalbear
Jun 19, 2005 @ 1:45 pm
So, I just saw the Canadian eps that haven't aired yet.
Whoa.
What a great ending.
cambridgeguy
Jun 19, 2005 @ 3:29 pm
They mentioned they had a really bad day where they lost a lot of people and the Watchtower.
It was implied that Chronos took out the JLU, but at the end of the episode that never happened. However, back in Batman Beyond a near apocalypse involving the "final" battle between Batman and Ra's al Ghul was mentioned, and that's probably a real event which could easily incorporate the JLU. Who knows if it will ever get shown, though. Between Batman Begins and The Batman virtually all Batman villains are off-limits to the JLU crew, and there's no way of knowing if the series will last long enough to get past that.
No wonder J'onn has been acting evil: he's a bureaucrat now. I don't see Batman or Flash leading a bunch of missions (for vastly different reasons), though.
Zerowing
Jun 19, 2005 @ 4:42 pm
The thing you all need to keep in mind about episodes that take place in the future is that time is "fluid". The progression of events not set in stone. So just because we saw John and Shayera's progeny in the future, that doesn't necessarily mean that will happen.
Arkham
Jun 19, 2005 @ 7:20 pm
I don't see Batman or Flash leading a bunch of missions (for vastly different reasons), though.
So I guess J'onn's comment to Shayera about the other core members leading missions referred to only half of the other six (including himself). Too bad, because I would have liked to have seen Flash lead a mission.
Ugh, Superman. You're such a dick.
I am growing progressively less fond of John Stewart.
No wonder J'onn has been acting evil: he's a bureaucrat now.
Another reason why I want to see more of the Flash.
TimeMonkey
Jun 19, 2005 @ 8:21 pm
This series just proves what the Justice Lords incident did, without the Flash the rest of the team starts to suck then become total bastards.
Enter4None
Jun 19, 2005 @ 8:39 pm
Couldn't agree more Kalbear!...and finally! FINALLY! *MAJOR SPOILER* in the latest chapter "Divided We Fall" Flash gets major respect by having the best AND final battle of the episode!... It's not like it totally redeems the lack of Flash on this season but that almost atones for all the other wrongs story-wise.
Hugin
Jun 19, 2005 @ 10:49 pm
The bit (you know the one), with the hero (you know the one) in Divided We Fall, may have been the coolest thing this show has ever done. The use of music cues during the sequence was fantastic as well. I rewound it several times to watch again.
SideshowJed
Jun 20, 2005 @ 1:29 am
Poor Gregor: "Gregor brain hurt! Must have Shayera blood! BLOOD SHAYERA!"
Well, the brain hurting was all J'onn. Breaking the heart of the man he loved, though?
That's all her.
Vercingetorix
Jun 20, 2005 @ 8:49 am
the elephant trick was the alst thing I would have expected with her animal powers. I was thinking bear or lion or something more predatory, but increased weight/density? Cruel and crafty
I was surprised Vixen didn't reduce her mass when she was falling; even if she can't fly, if she reduced her mass to a spider's, she'd pretty much just float down.
Poor Gregor: "Gregor brain hurt! Must have Shayera blood! BLOOD SHAYERA!"
I didn't see last season - can someone fill in Gregor's backstory? Also, have we ever seen Katar?
cambridgeguy
Jun 20, 2005 @ 10:20 am
I didn't see last season - can someone fill in Gregor's backstory? Also, have we ever seen Katar?
It's actually Kragger, not Gregor. Aliens aren't allowed to have human names, after all. Anyway, Kragger was one of Hro Talek's chief subordinates when Starcrossed occurred. Kragger, unlike the other Thanagarians, was always suspicious of Hawkgirl and wasn't convinced that she could turn her back on the League. Once Hawkgirl found out that they were going to destroy earth (this was conveniently omitted from the story that they told her) she switched sides and informed the League, who were hanging out in the Batcave. Kragger had placed a tracking device on her and led an assault team which the League consequently beat up. J'onn went into his mind to learn how to fly a Thanagarian ship, and clearly did some permanent damage in the process. Oh, and I must have missed the mention because I don't know who Katar is.
Denman
Jun 20, 2005 @ 10:24 am
Man, nobody's mentioning Elizabeth Pena's work as the leader of the surviving Thanagarians. I've always loved her voice and thought she was also great as Mirage in The Incredibles.
RiverThames
Jun 20, 2005 @ 10:28 am
We never saw Katar, because in "Starcrossed" they essentially made "Hawkman" the bad guy, and making Katar the bad guy would have been a bit too much. So they made "Hro Talak" (an anagram of Katar Hol) as the leader of the Thanagarians.
As for the thing with Kragger, it should be noted that J'onn said he couldn't read Thanagarian's minds normally-- so he really had to push with Kragger to get in there. Telepathic equivalent of busting through a few doors to get in-- you're going to leave some damage in your wake.
Ebongreen
Jun 20, 2005 @ 10:40 am
Man, nobody's mentioning Elizabeth Pena's work as the leader of the surviving Thanagarians.
Hear hear,
Denman. Good stuff.
Vercingetorix
Jun 20, 2005 @ 10:40 am
Man, between Kragger and Grundy, Shayera is turning into a one-woman MRDD plug-puller. Let's hope she doesn't run into Bizarro.
Oh, and I must have missed the mention because I don't know who Katar is.
Katar is the Thanagarian "Hawkman" in the comics. His most recent palatable origin was that he was a rebel/hero Thanagarian ex-cop who was sent to Earth to be Thanagar's ambassador to Earth, together with the more straightlaced officer Shayera, who was basically Scully to his Mulder. Then his origin got mangled beyond all recognition, so I was hoping that JLU would rescue him. Still, making him into an anagrammed anti-hero (and one whose body was never seen) isn't too bad . . .
Daisy Duke
Jun 20, 2005 @ 11:01 am
It's actually Kragger, not Gregor. Aliens aren't allowed to have human names, after all.
Like J'onn or Mikaal, right? ;)
I will give a cookie to the first writer to put Mikaal in, and a hundred bucks to the writer who has him tell John Stewart there's no don't-ask-don't-tell in the JLU.
I now dislike John Stewart. Humorless, full of himself, and blah-blah-blah "my girlfriend, my ex!" Shut it, John.
I can't believe that HE is the guy two gorgeous superheroines are essentially competing for. I will grant he is probably a better boyfriend than Vibe or Superman, but that's it. He's no Green Arrow.
bigbadvoodoolou
Jun 20, 2005 @ 12:48 pm
I agree it made little sense to have both Vixen and Vigilante on that space mission, but damn it was fun to have Gina Torres and Nathan Fillion doing the space adventure thing again. A number of Vigilante's lines sounded as if they could have come from Mal Reynolds.
Morena Baccarin is around too--she does the voice of Black Canary. And several other Whedon alumni are on the show, including Amy Acker as the Huntress and Juliet Landau as the witch Tala.
Gnosis
Jun 20, 2005 @ 1:58 pm
Plus Adam Baldwin has had a couple of roles on the show as well.
I will grant he is probably a better boyfriend than Vibe or Superman, but that's it. He's no Green Arrow.
I love Ollie, but (at least in the comics) I wouldnt call him good boyfriend material. He has a bit of a wandering eye.
I actually liked having Vigilante in this episode (and yes my being a bit of a Browncoat probably has something to do with it). Still want to see him and Shining Knight team up though. Heck all they have to do is bring in Arsenal and they could do a Seven Soliders episode (the golden age ones, not the new Grant Morrison version). Of course since they have yet to do an episode with all the JSA members they have floating around the Watchtower (something I would like to see more) I doubt that will happen.
bigbadvoodoolou
Jun 20, 2005 @ 3:10 pm
Hey, I'm still waiting for an episode with Booster Gold, Fire, Ice, Captain Atom, Elongated Man, and Flash taking on Maxwell Lord.
elle
Jun 20, 2005 @ 3:17 pm
Who were the two JLA'ers walking about at the very beginning of "Hunter's Moon"? A lady with really long hair or helmet and a guy who was, maybe, The Blue Devil?
Is there someplace that lists the cameo appearance along with the recaps of the show?
bigbadvoodoolou
Jun 20, 2005 @ 3:17 pm
That would be Crimson Fox, a French superheroine, with Blue Devil. They served together on a short-lived incarnation of Justice League America written by Gerard Jones (#0 and 93-113), as well as a small Justice League branch based in Europe (as seen in Starman #38, which does NOT have a happy ending).
roosterboy
Jun 20, 2005 @ 5:02 pm
I will grant [John Stewart] is probably a better boyfriend than Vibe or Superman
Better than Vibe? Come on, can John get down like Vibe can? I think not.
The Pez
Jun 20, 2005 @ 6:33 pm
When it comes to Vibe, I let Ollie do the talking:
http://moviepoopshoot.com/comics101/images.../mar16/punk.jpgCrimson Fox is actually Vixen's twin...in JLE, it's really complicated.
elle
Jun 20, 2005 @ 6:53 pm
Thanks, bigbadvoodoolou! (so would that be Vivian or Constance?)
I could use subtitles (or name tags!) like the old movie serials to say who is who as they appear on screen.
Count me in as one of those looking forward to seeing more of Flash in action.
MereyGB
Jun 20, 2005 @ 7:00 pm
"What do I know about the jungle? I live in a loft in Chelsea."
So, in the DCU is there a New York City? And do any of our superheros actually live and "work" there? I'm assuming Vixen was referring to the Chelsea neighborhood in Manhattan.
Perfect Xero
Jun 20, 2005 @ 7:07 pm
Yeah, there's a NYC though figuring out how the geography works out can get a bit confusing. In the comics Wonder Woman lives there, as of right now. She's also lived in Boston and Washington D.C. ... So she's not "linked" to NYC in the same way the Superman is with Metropolis or Batman with Gotham.
bigmonster
Jun 20, 2005 @ 7:46 pm
Man, I would love an epsiode featuring Blue Devil! He is my all-time favorite comic book hero ever....and I've been reading since the early 70's. Dan Cassidy rocks.
Daisy Duke
Jun 20, 2005 @ 8:53 pm
I love Ollie, but (at least in the comics) I wouldnt call him good boyfriend material. He has a bit of a wandering eye.
Yeah, but I could buy wanting him or trying to change him. Or competing for him. I mean, you're right, long-term wouldn't work out. What was that 90s grunge rocker thing VH1 was running? "Gotta love him, gotta wash him. Can't take him home to mother."
John Stewart has no personality aside from "cranky and bossy."
Gnosis
Jun 20, 2005 @ 9:31 pm
So, in the DCU is there a New York City? And do any of our superheros actually live and "work" there? I'm assuming Vixen was referring to the Chelsea neighborhood in Manhattan.
I believe Kyle Rayner also spent a good deal of his time as Green Lantern living in New York. I also think it's where the Outcasts operate out of now. It's not like Marvel where you cant spit without hitting a superhero there, but it still has a few.
bigbadvoodoolou
Jun 20, 2005 @ 9:34 pm
Yeah, there's a NYC though figuring out how the geography works out can get a bit confusing. In the comics Wonder Woman lives there, as of right now. She's also lived in Boston and Washington D.C. ... So she's not "linked" to NYC in the same way the Superman is with Metropolis or Batman with Gotham.
New York City is right where it should be, Gotham City and Bludhaven (Nightwing's home base city in the comics) are across a river from each other in New Jersey, Metropolis is in Delaware, and Hub City (former home of Blue Beetle and the Question) is in the Midwest, allegedly similar to Chicago (which also exists in the DCU). Opal City, Starman's home city, is a "funkier version of Baltimore [Maryland]," according to its creator, James Robinson.
Daisy Duke
Jun 20, 2005 @ 9:38 pm
And for some half-baked reason they've moved the blue-collar steel town of freakin' Keystone to... Kansas. Which is chock-a-block with big steel towns, apparently.
As a Philadelphian I say... feh.
Perfect Xero
Jun 20, 2005 @ 10:09 pm
Metropolis is in Delaware
In the recent "Countdown" book the Superman-bio listed Metropolis as "Metropolis, NY". So it's officially in New York State.
I love Ollie, but (at least in the comics) I wouldnt call him good boyfriend material. He has a bit of a wandering eye.
Ollie is a real prince in the comics. Ya know, he seduces his teammate's wife and commits adultery with her and doesn't even have the common decency to feel bad about it when said teammate sacrifices himself to save his worthless ass.
roosterboy
Jun 21, 2005 @ 12:06 am
Crimson Fox is actually Vixen's twin...in JLE, it's really complicated.
Are you sure? That didn't used to be the case; Crimson Fox was two twins named Vivian and Constance d'Aramis. One would play hero and one would take care of their business empire. Vixen was model Mari McCabe and totally unrelated to Crimson Fox. Has that changed?
Gnosis
Jun 21, 2005 @ 3:00 am
Ollie is a real prince in the comics. Ya know, he seduces his teammate's wife and commits adultery with her and doesn't even have the common decency to feel bad about it when said teammate sacrifices himself to save his worthless ass
So there
was another person who has read
Justice League Elite!
Zulfiya
Jun 21, 2005 @ 8:28 am
Crimson Fox is actually Vixen's twin...in JLE, it's really complicated. [/quote]
Given that the (identical) twins who were Crimson Fox were white Frenchwomen and Vixen is a black American from New York... that seems unlikely.
I think Pez just confused the fact that Crimson Fox was a set of twins (one was thought dead before they started the heroic ID, so they used it as kind of the perfect Secret ID). That and her name was "La Reynard Rouge" in French, which could arguably be translated as "Red Vixen" as well as "The Crimson Fox".
Vercingetorix
Jun 21, 2005 @ 9:03 am
doesn't even have the common decency to feel bad about it when said teammate sacrifices himself to save his worthless ass
I thought he did feel bad - didn't he get cut by the magic axe? Or did it not cut him? (I read each issue of JL:E about 6 times and I can never figure out what happens from panel to panel - apparently, Menagerie died in the limbo dimension, but I'll be darned if I can figure out how).
Denman
Jun 21, 2005 @ 12:22 pm
Who do you think is the DC equivalent of Marvel's Black Widow, who's been with Daredevil, Hawkeye and Iron Man?
bigbadvoodoolou
Jun 21, 2005 @ 1:21 pm
Who do you think is the DC equivalent of Marvel's Black Widow, who's been with Daredevil, Hawkeye and Iron Man?
Nightwing (Dick Grayson), who has been with Starfire, Huntress, Catwoman, and Oracle.
The Pez
Jun 21, 2005 @ 1:48 pm
Yeah, sorry
roosterboy & Zulfiya, I was totally confused. There was a topic on Crimson Fox and Vixen going on. I also wanted to sound smart (I'm actually only half-way-through JLE...I got the whole run of JLI/JLE on e-bay for around $170...great deal if you realize ohw many comics there were [also I won the post DeMatties/Giffen ones])
I was talking on a comic board (Superdickery forums) and someone posted to their own article on
Who should appear on JLU, but haven't. It's pretty interesting, I think I Tomorrow Woman episode could be really good if done right.
Who's the Marvel equivalent of Wonder Woman?
clarkins
Jun 21, 2005 @ 3:38 pm
So there was another person who has read Justice League Elite!
Never heard of it. Is it a comic store only book?
bigbadvoodoolou
Jun 21, 2005 @ 3:45 pm
It doesn't sell very well, mostly because it doesn't feature the big icons. It's a "black ops" sort of team with Flash, Green Arrow, and a bunch of newer, lesser-known characters led by someone named Vera Black, the sister of a former Superman villain named Manchester Black. Joe Kelly is the writer.
Gnosis
Jun 21, 2005 @ 4:09 pm
Who's the Marvel equivalent of Wonder Woman?
The easy answer is Power Princess from the Squadron Supreme, but of course she's not formt he main Marvel Universe.
I really don't think there is an exact equivalent to Wonder Woman in the Marvel Universe. There really isnt a female character who has the same level of prominance that Diana does (Jean Grey and Sue Storm are probably the two most recognizable female characters in the Marvel Universe and they both really appear only in team books). I guess the closest equivalent (female powerhouse who is a long standing member of the world's premier super-team) may be She-Hulk, but they really aren't the same aside from the basic role they play (and even then its a stretch). As odd as this sounds, Captain Ameirca may be a good equivalent for Wonder Woman, given the type of respect they have both among the superhero and global communities. So over all there really isnt a true equivalent for WOnder Woman.
Who do you think is the DC equivalent of Marvel's Black Widow, who's been with Daredevil, Hawkeye and Iron Man?
I think Huntress is also a good equivalent here. She has been with Nightwing, Arsenal and the Question.
Daisy Duke
Jun 21, 2005 @ 6:16 pm
Who's the Marvel equivalent of Wonder Woman?
I'm tempted to say Storm. Powerful, but not the most powerful on the team she's usually in, regal-but-sexy, ruler of various places, hyper-moral. Everyone wants to get with her but she doesn't get with everybody. She's even got the deity-involved backstory.
snowcrash
Jun 21, 2005 @ 6:20 pm
Who's the Marvel equivalent of Wonder Woman?
I agree with
Gnosis that there really isn't a direct female equivalent, but my choice for closest analogue would be Thor. You get the mysticism, the fame, the "stranger in a strange land" and the top-tier power level.
Why does JLE sound like a rip-off of Stormwatch Black/ Jenny Spark's team before they became the Authority?
Who should appear on JLU, but haven't
Dogwelder.
Arkham
Jun 21, 2005 @ 6:38 pm
Who's the Marvel equivalent of Wonder Woman?
I think Thor is a good choice, but you could go with Valkyrie if you want a mythology-inspired warrior woman. Also, her costume wouldn't look out of place on Diana. I suppose someone could make a case for Ms. Marvel (Carol Danvers), since she has superstrength and flight and is supposed to be strong willed and independent. I'm tempted to argue for Emma Frost, since she likes skimpy outfits and bondage accoutrement, although Emma is into whips while Diana is into ropes.
bigbadvoodoolou
Jun 21, 2005 @ 8:41 pm
Why does JLE sound like a rip-off of Stormwatch Black/ Jenny Spark's team before they became the Authority?
You're more right than you know. The concept first appeared in Action Comics #775, "Whatever Happened To Truth, Justice, and the American Way?", written by Joe Kelly. In it, Superman took on a team of violent antiheroes who did their dirty work by any means necessary, the Elite, who were pretty thin swipes of the then-uber-popular Authority. Manchester Black was like a male version of Jenny Sparks, and there were other Authority analogues on the Elite as well. Anyway, Superman won and proved that old-fashioned heroes still have a place in the world, which was Kelly's "diss" against Warren Ellis and Mark Millar's "killer heroes" in the Authority. The new Justice League Elite series (which I admit I haven't read) addresses some of the same concepts, but it all started with a reaction against the Authority, which in turn formed from the ashes of Stormwatch Black.
jeet
Jun 21, 2005 @ 10:21 pm
Nightwing (Dick Grayson), who has been with Starfire, Huntress, Catwoman, and Oracle.
When was Nightwing with Catwoman?
roosterboy
Jun 21, 2005 @ 10:53 pm
Ew, that's kind of icky. Hasn't Batman also been with Catwoman?
Is JLElite still an ongoing series? I read the first two or three issues and lost interest.
Gnosis
Jun 22, 2005 @ 1:39 am
JLE was a only a 12 issue limited series
but it ended in a way that could lead to more stores (though I dont know how much demand there would be for such a thing)I can't believe I forgot Thor. Yeah he is probably the best analogy to Wonder Woman (though technically Hercules would also fit, due to the fact they both rely heavily on Greek mythology - however it;s not that good a fit since Diana isnt a drunken buffoon).
Ew, that's kind of icky. Hasn't Batman also been with Catwoman?
Yes, but they've never really gotten together. The closest they've come is during Jeph Loeb's "Hush" storyline from a few years ago.
RiverThames
Jun 22, 2005 @ 7:46 pm
I saw a JLA vs. Avengers pic a couple of months ago that did it's best to match types on who was facing off who, and it had Wonder Woman vs. She Hulk, who is probably the best match, even if they aren't technically equivalents in meaning.
But the Marvel heroes don't have that same sense of Iconic Representation that the DC ones do.
fakely mctest
Jun 23, 2005 @ 10:58 am
Yes, but they've never really gotten together. The closest they've come is during Jeph Loeb's "Hush" storyline from a few years ago.
Are we talking together together? As in going steady? Or as in the Biblical sense? Because Brubaker's run on Catwoman addressed their relationship a few times. It was strongly implied that they were occasionally together but that they both realize that their lives are too complicated for anything...traditional.
The new writer hasn't really picked up that thread yet though.
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