Fuck!
That was intense. I'm really liking the Government vs. The Justice League arc.
Yeah...I thought Bruce's reaction at the end kinda weird as well. What were they suppossed to do with Doomsday? Dude's just too powerful.

He tried to, but for whatever reason, it didn't work this time. Doomsday even says something to that effect. The potential is there for them to abuse their powers, Bruce was over the top in his rant, but they need that reminder.

I agree with the person who earlier commented on how odd WW's eyes looked during that scene. Very buggy. I think Supes' could have too, but for the difference in the style of their eyes.

Who were the super-heroine/super-villainess in the previews? One appears to be working with The Question and the other seems to get trapped in a mirror (she was also at the Cadmus meeting).

I think Phantom-Zoning DD was the only viable solution (other than getting Mr Miracle to build a impenetrable prison...but lets not go there. Yet.) but I understand why he wigged out. See, he *does* know Superman. And he knows Luthor. If President Luthor begins acting suspicious or does something questionable, Supes stands a good chance of losing it. And lets face it, a good chunk of the JL would probably help in bringing down Luthor and helping out Big Blue. So, yeah Batman is right to be worried. So is Amanda Waller. But really, keeping Doomsday? Making Doomsday? Bad, bad techniques.
Bottom line, great ep.
ETA: Man, for the Batman to admit that someone is wound a bit too tightly...

In the comics one could probably describe Batman's attitude toward meta-humans as borderline racist ... Which is why he spends all of his time coming up with "protocols" to take down his fellow JLA members, rather than, you know, coming up with a plan to stop the Joker from going on another killing spree. I think we saw some of that coming out in Batman last night ...

I think the best description to Batman's actions at the end of the latest episode would be to say that Batman has a major case of penis envy.


Well, Superman probably knows that his counterpart stopped Doomsday via lobotomy (since Lois and a swarm of news cameras were there), and now he knows that Doomsday was able to recover from it. So he might as well do it again. It's like the first time he fights a villain he pulls his punches until he knows how much they can take, next time he doesn't need to bother pulling his punches since he already knows how much the guy can take. That's not "abuse of power" that's smart fighting.

The Phantom Zone was the best and safest solution, but not the only one. Doomsday still needed Milo's help to break out of Cadmus: presumably the League could have built something similar and stuffed Doomsday into it. I think Batman's feeling is that the League (Superman in particular) passed judgement by itself, and that once they start doing that there's no way to stop them from continuing. This is what happened in the Lords universe. Now with Luthor as a viable candidate, there will be the temptation to pull strings behing the scenes to prevent his election.



That wasn't Talia, it was Tala. TVtome has a blurb on her.

Just something I may have missed: Did the JLU know that Doomsday was created by Cadmus?

I wrote a slash fic coda to tonight's episode. Clark/Lex, Smallville crossover with JLU.

Check and Balance


It's NC-17 so be warned. But it does have a plot as well.

Another thing I like to note between Waller and General Eiling. I think they also setting things up with Eiling that he becomes the General like in the comics. He's starting to take matters into his own hand and start disobeying his government supporters just like in the comics.

Ok while I really enjoyed this episode I felt like I was missing something. When did this whole justice lords story take place? Did I miss an episode of justice league somewhere along the line? If someone could fill me in I would be very grateful, thanks.

This happened in season 2. Basically, in an alternate reality the Lords (sans the Flash, who was killed) decided that they had to take over to protect the world from President Luthor and other threats. Superman roasted Luthor and lobotomized most of the other villains to accomplish this, and set up a fascist regime. The Lord Batman constructed a portal to the League's world, and the Lords managed to capture the League. The Lords (except for Batman) then went into the League's reality, where they fought Doomsday (he was also lobotomized by Superman) and started to set up shop. Meanwhile, the League managed to escape and convinced the Lord Batman to help them. Once back in their own reality the League defeated the Lords with the help of Luthor's power disruptor, which removes all superpowers. In exchange for his help Luthor was granted a full pardon by the president.

If you can find a copy of this episode I recommend it: most consider it the finest episode of Justice League. At the very least it's one of the top 3.

I totally agree. It's a two-part episode called A Better World. It, along with Hereafter and Starcrossed achieved permanent residence on my TiVo.

A Cadmus type solution wouldn't work because it didn't work. Doomsday got out, didn't he? Even if it was because of sabotage, the point is, it was easy enough to release him by a disgruntled member of the organization. And remember, the Justice League doesn't just have crimefighters, if also has civillians, who, and for all we know, one of them could find themselves in the same position as Milo, i.e. that of a disgruntled employee. I'm not sure how much our heroes know of the cirumstances that led to Doomsday being freed, but they do know that his previous imprisonment was a resounding faliure.

I'm not saying Batman's remarks were out of character. He feels isolated from people in general, and superhumans in particular. It's very good from a storytelling point of view. I'm just saying it's uncalled for.

It also explains why in Batman Beyond, future Superman tells Terry Batman wasn't much of a team player, even though the JL series so far shows he clearly was one. Bruce didn't like where the league was going and isolated himself more from the team in time. Marvel did a mini-series back in the 80's called Squadron Supreme about a JL-type team in a parallel Earth that became benevolant fascists and started doing stuff like altering villains' personalities and their groups' version of Batman,"Nighthawk" left the team and form a group to oppose them.

You make a good point, but by this logic every killer should be tossed into an alternate dimension. Folks like the Joker aren't nearly as dangerous as Doomsday, but they are far too dangerous to lock up considering the ease with which jailbreaks are accomplished in the DCAU. While I agree that Batman's comments were uncalled for, I can see his point.

For anyone wondering who she was, the purple-haired woman was Tala, Queen of Evil, an old Phantom Stranger villain. (Also, she was a character in Neil Gaiman's Books of Magic miniseries from 10+ years ago.) This makes a certain sense: The Cadmus people have enough science-based schemers on their team, but if it's their intention to go against the Justice League, it doesn't hurt to have someone with a magical background as well.

Plus Doomsday is equivalent to Superman's powers and if he ever went rogue, Doomsday could be used against him which may be one reason Bruce is pissed.

I'm starting to think more along the lines that Superman may be a threat soon. Post-Crisis Superman has more of a taste of his own mortality and now there are a lot more things in this world besides Krytonite that can kick his ass so if his enemies almost finished off before, imagine if they get even more powerful (like Presidential powerful). Sure Bruce, Diana and his other friends can keep him in tow for now but if one of them were to die...

To be shackled and immobilized? I actually think the Phantom Zone is the better alternative. What fuh-reaked me out was that Superman tried to lobotomize DD again! Wasn't that the moral tipping point in the alternate history?

I thought the tipping point was Clark char-broiling Luthor. Lobotomization was alternate Supes' MO, though.

Man, I wish they'd rerun some of the old JL eps, if anything just as a refresher course. Its been so long since I've seen some episodes that my memory is getting fuzzy.

Well, Waller told him to take care of Doomsday and said that she didn't care how he did it, just that it got done ... Eiling just took the most extreme interpretation of that order.


Eh? I'd put my money on Batman, I can just imagine CADMUS getting their hands on his 'protocols'.


Yeah, Clark killing Lex was the major turning point (set off by Luther killing Flash ...) Of course there must've been an earlier 'break off point' because Luther is already president in the alternate time-line. As for the lobotomy, like I said, Clark already knows that Doomsday can/will recover from it, and Doomsday was beating the crap out of him ... Can't fault him for going for it.

I enjoyed this episode very much and look forward to a continuing story arc on this subject. However, I felt that with a story like this, they should have done a 2-parter. In fact, that's been one of my biggest problems with JLU. There is simply not enough time in a half hour episode (20 minutes minus commercials) to tell a proper story. You need an hour long episode. Otherwise, the story is simply too rushed and not fleshed out properly and the solution is too quick.

This week I was reading some press release at futoncritic regarding the new season of shows on the Cartoon Network and they had this opening comment on JLU: "The Justice League, led by Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman and Green Lantern, has grown much larger because the threats are even greater." It then goes on to list the DC characters to be featured this year. So now the JL is led by 4 out of the original 7? I could see why Shayera would no longer be considered a lead member, but what about Flash and Martian Manhunter? Clearly, they're still there and since they were with the other original team members at the table conference, are still considered as the originals. So what gives with such an odd wording? It's like that press release from the Cartoon Network is totally ignoring Flash and MM as team members.

I can't blame them for ignoring MM and the Flash, considering that the show has ignored them for most of the season. However, MM does appear to be coordinating most of the team's missions, so he's definitely one of the leaders. I'm not sure about the Flash, though. It seemed like he had to go MM to approve JL involvement in the Mr. Miracle case (as opposed to Flash and MM having equal say and needing a third core member to break the tie, for example).



I don't have an ethical problem with the JL doing that to killers who can't be rehabilitated and are too dangerous to be locked up (a situation that does not truly exist in the real world where criminals don't have superpowers). Of course, the JL risks going down a slippery slope with increasingly loose definitions of "too dangerous," and Batman seems to recognize that problem.

I don't think they'll go that route since it was already done in S:TAS. And I really think Batman is overreacting. He was fine with the JL before all this and now he worry? Bats I like, but the guy is too suspicious of everyone and if he can't trust Clark, then I hope the friendship ends.

Good episode. I wonder why they haven't been producing stories like this all year.

I agree that Bruce probably overreacted about Doomsday's fate. If he escaped, how would they stop him? Kryptonite? Amazo? I hope that he was just pissed about "taking a bullet" for Supes. But I think that the rest of his argument may be valid. It's nice to see that someone in the League is contemplating the path that could lead to the Lords.

Unless he's been noticing things all long that are bugging him, and we haven't been privy to it. I'm sure that we'll find out soon, if that's the case.

I saw this last episode and liked it, despite not having seen much of this series (either the JL or JLU incarnations). My question: if Doomsday is made from Superman's cells, couldn't you use some of the less-deadly methods that have worked against Superman -- magic, or transporting him to a planet where the sun's radiation wouldn't make him super? Or do these not work in the animated universe?

Also, is the Phantom Zone considered a bad place to be? If it really is just moving Doomsday to a "place" where he can't hurt anyone, how is that any different from prison? I'm not troubled by the fact that Superman made that decision -- he is really the only person that could do it. Earth courts really aren't equipped for those kinds of decisions, so it would ultimately fall to a single person or small group (the president, some council somewhere) to make the decision. I'm not particularly troubled by the JL deciding the fates of super or godlike beings. I'd be more concerned when they started deciding the fates of regular humans (people for whom a system of laws exists).

Maybe Hawkgirl's betrayl has left him a bit more paranoid than usual?

That was, I think, the single worst episode of JL yet. A nuke? Frack me. That's the kind of five-second non-threat they should use as an opener before the episode really starts.

Nuke appears. Etrigan eats it. Supergirl throws it into the sun. Zantana turns it into a bunny. Whatever. Just cut to next scene.

Did they forget they had a transporter on the space station? That WW was on the island? That WW caught a missile in the first season? That they could have had Batman willing to kill himself but still have someone else interrupt?

Also, I hate making Batman a huge dick just so Superman can be slightly less of an asshole than he usually is.

Lastly, they should have had WW catch Superman cradle-style, the way he's always catching people, not WWII dead-buddy style, which sucks.

I don't think Zatanna or most of the other JL members could have stopped a nuclear missile (although I'd love to have seen the look on the general's face if Zatanna had turned the missile into a bunny). I don't think Bats could rely on Wonder Woman because of the communications problems (and the interference would also explain why he couldn't safely teleport someone to the vicinity). Bats mentioned that Captain Atom wasn't fast enough to catch the missile, I'm not sure if Supergirl was available (or if she could handle a kryptonite missile that was specifically designed for use against Superman, who has the same vulnerabilities as her), and Bats didn't have time to look for extra help. Also, I think it's in character for Bats to resort to this type of solution.

I agree with you about letting someone other than Bats save the day, and about toning down his grouchiness toward Superman at the end.

They do have a teleporter ... Is there any reason why they couldn't have teleported Captain Atom into position to intercept the nuke?

And, if the radio signal was messed up ... Why wasn't J'onn using his telepathy.

"They do have a teleporter ... Is there any reason why they couldn't have teleported Captain Atom into position to intercept the nuke?"

Yes, he was out of range.

"And, if the radio signal was messed up ... Why wasn't J'onn using his telepathy."

J'onn's telepathy doesn't work like that, at least not on the show. It would take him hours to find an individual mind out of the billions on Earth. As I think about it, I don't even know that he's ever demonstrated the kind of range necessary to pull off a stunt like that.

I don't know. Bats was able to contact J'onn just by thinking to him when he was captured by the Luthor-led Injustice Gang. That is the reverse of what we're talking about though.

Or one better: "Raelcun elssim emoceb lwob fo sainutep"

Edited because proper spelling is important for proper spell..ing... (damn, that's a lame pun.)

Teleporting would explain the five dozen heroes. Think about it...

Batman: Great Gotham! A nuclear missle is set to blow up Plot Device Island...and Superman with it!

J'onn: Way ahead of you. Vibe! Gypsy! Atom Smasher! Booster Gold! Teleport down and take care of business!

(one hour later)

Hawkgirl: (high-fiving Batman) Yaaaaaay...less lameasses to clutter the backgrounds.

Batman: Um, J'onn? Why Atom Smasher? He was a nice guy.

J'onn: Now we only have two "atom" guys...the Atom and Capt. Atom. It's a little less confusing. But I'll miss all of them. (munching on chocolate cookies) Or not.

That wouldn't work. Why would turning an unclear missile into a bowl of petunias help?

*Snrk* This has me thinking about how much fun an "I Can't Believe It's Not Justice League!" approach could be for an episode, focusing on a band of the lesser-known, much less iconic characters.

I find myself thinking that Bruce is lying there in his hospital bed busily plotting a way to dismantle this "Unlimited" edition of the League. That would open the door for a rival "organization" to pop up, under the often-inept-but-always-grandiose management of one Maxwell Lord.

Bring Giffen and Dematteis in to write it and send the animators a big stack of Maguire and see if they can emulate some of that additional facial expressiveness, since there wouldn't be a whole lot of the traditional big action.

Those poor petunias. Do they think, "Oh no, not again"?

Where did I put my towel?

Perhaps because the intense electromagnetic energy that disrupted the communications also disrupted J'Onn's telepathy. At least in the comics, telepathic waves can be disrupted by electromagnetic waves.

You know, a poster on the JLA message board I visit brought up a good point about Batman chewing out Superman. He was preaching to Superman about imprisoning Doomsday in the Phantom Zone, but Batman didn't have any qualms about trapping Chronos in an infinite time loop a few episodes earlier. A bit hypocritical of Batman I think.

Well, to be fair by its very nature you probably wouldn't be aware of being stuck in a time loop, but I'm pretty sure that you are aware of time passing in the phantom zone. What do you do to pass the time in there, anyways? Plotting revenge against superman probably could only take up a few years.

Which brilliant poster said "Bruce Wayne...Billionaire Asshole"? I think that applies here.

Bit off topic - but the new Question miniseries RAWKS. Highly recommended to those who enjoy his appearances on this show, although it's a pretty different version of the character.

I'm also enjoying the Question miniseries. The way the writer invented a scheme that allows organized crime to flourish in Metropolis is genius right there.

Back on topic.

With the releases of BTAS, STAS, Superfriends Vol 1 & 2, when will the WB recognize that we want Justice League in season sets? Do we have to wait 5 or more years after the show is off the air to get this? They know that the individual sets are selling well, that's how they decide to release season sets like they did for BTAS and STAS. I would like to see earlier episodes of Justice League from seasons 1 & 2. The sets they put out aren't even complete series sets, unlike Teen Titans, which has released every episode from the first season in individual volumes, wtf is w/that, i'm guessing its more popular and sold more, but still. It just makes no sense to me, the market is out there, they know rabid fans will shell out the money for this. Sigh..........

Query...when will there be new eps? "The Greatest Story Never Told" runs tonight, and "Ultimatium" goes next week. I'm itching for new stuff.

April 9.

And scientifically speaking the idea of telepathy being even remotely linked to E.M. waves is unscientific. Given the high level of E.M. waves all around us generated by power lines, radios, broadcasts, cellphones, etc. a telepathic signal would be completely disoriented if it relied on E.M. waves radiating to broadcast itself. If telepathy does exist, it is on a higher form than EM.

No, psionic energy isn't directly linked to EM energy, but it does travel through the air like EM waves, and it's possible to interfere with the psionic waves with specific wavelengths of energy if they are of a high enough intensity.

But in the real world, there are plenty of EM waves of high intensities travelling all around us. Given the preponderance of EM radiation pretty much everywhere around the Earth as a staple of telecommunications technology any telepath should suffer constant interference in attempting to transmit their memes or coscious thoughts. For EM radiation to interfere with telepathy would mean telepathic powers transmitted at least partially on an electromagnetic wavelength which would mean their brains generate high-frequency EM radiation to compensate for the amount of interference in the air, especially like J'onn who uses it at great distances. In such a case everyone around him or any other telepath would be in danger of radiation poisoning.

As far as I've seen, you can't get radiation poisoning from psionic energy. The problem is you're trying to apply real-world physics to comic books. It never works, believe me I've tried.

For example, the X-Men villain Magneto for example can use his magnetic powers to manipulate the iron in a person's blood stream. But the thing is, the iron in our blood isn't affected by magnets. But apparently the humans in comic books it is.

Right, because it's not just iron, it's part of a molecule.

And that's choosing one of the less ridiculous examples. The all-timer (for both inexplicability and ubiquity) has gotta be - How does Superman, or almost any other flying hero for that matter, fly? Who knows? They just do is all. Wheeeeeee!

Painter> the same way Juggernaut manages to keep himself elevated despite him being too heavy for any human muscles to lift: control over one's gravitational force via psycho-kinetic control over one's own body (a very limited form of psycho-kinesis directly related to gravitational forces which is why he can only fly himself).

That's because in the comic books radiation doesn't kill you it makes you stronger. And implying (as was done when someone said J'onn's telepathy is affected by EM waves is applying r/l physics to r/l.