It didn’t occur to me at the time of watching because I got to see it so long after the event, but I think that this is obviously another factor in the change of tone between seasons.

I actually loved the fact that they kept using trannies – given tha the show’s set in the future, I give them leeway for adapting the word thusly to describe the transgenics. It came across as both affectionate and derogatory, and felt more organic than transies. Plus as scififan said it was probably a joke on purpose, given the fact that they wove in homosexual characters/subtext (didn’t Normal date a woman who used to be a man or something in season 1?)

Or what DrCher said.

Do you notice that when Renfro is speaking French on the phone, that the translation that comes on screen spells Manticore wrong? It says Manitcore.

rikraq, is that on the video (original braodcast) only, or on the DVD too? [/too lazy to check]

It was on my dvd.

Speaking of DVDs:
Does anyone have the seasons and just don't have the heart to watch them yet? I received the second season, in advance from a pal, as a gift a few months ago for my birthday and I still don't have the motivation to watch them. Am I the only one with this problem?

Not that but I looked at Season 1 on the shelves at Best Buy for three month before spending the money. Then I said what the hell...you know you want them, and unlike several movie DVDs I've bought and still not watched, I knew this would be different. No problem once I watched the pilot. I pre-ordered season 2 so that I would get 30% off. If you only have season 2 I can see your problem. I'd start with the pilot episode and you get right into it.




I think that you've got a good one there. That could also explain the mysterious meeting in Washington DC at the end of Harbor Lights.

I just read over at IMDb that Jessica Alba is dating Mark Wahlberg, he's 32 which would making him 10 years older than Jessica, start of a trend?

I watch my S2 DVDs all the time just for the Alec bits -- easy to fastforward through what I don't want to see.

IMHO the commentaries on DT, TBA, HG, and even FN are worth watching the DVDs for, just to hear Moira rave about Alec/Jensen.

I've had some problems watching the DVDs. I'm about halfway through season one, and that's all in a rush. I found that once I started watching, I was enjoying them, but once interrupted (two months ago), I haven't worked up to watching again. As opposed to DVDs of other shows (like Angel) where I put everything on hold for a marathon as soon as I get the DVDs. I really don't know why, but you're not alone.

Not really. She dated Michael Weatherly during the DA days and IIRC he was 10 years older than her.

I have to admit I have been putting off buying the dvds, even though my tapes have completely been worn out. I wishlisted them on Amazon and I keep looking at them at the store, but I haven't yet bought them. In the meantime, I've preordered Angel and Firefly.

I suspect it's because if I watch them, I will yet again be embittered by the whole thing. Similarly, I couldn't bear to watch any of my Farscape dvds after the cancellation, but once the miniseries was announced I had a marathon.

Same here. I am also afraid that I'll now realize that the series did suck.

Let's don't over state the case. They shared a table at New Years party and left in the same limo. We really don't have any info as to what really is going on between them. Maybe she said "Hey, Mark if you drop me off at my hotel in your limo the press will see us and we'll get some free publicity." and he "Cool! And, it will make my ex-girlfriend, Jealous too." On the other hand....

As far as the age thing, don't forget that on the occasion of her eighteenth birthday Jessica Alba announced:





Lighten up. The first season was real good. And, the second season had Jensen Akles! My advice is to just watch one show per day. You'll have a good time.

Or do like I do and imagine the characters in a much more expanded DA universe, no longer constrained by storyline continuity problems and writer/creator differences of opinion -- not to mention no longer hindered by having to cater to the whims of certain "stars."

I also try to think of the DA series the way Max Allan Collins says he does -- that what we saw on television, or in the books, is just a tiny slice of the life those people (characters) lead -- that lots and lots of stuff happens to them "behind the scenes" that the viewers/readers don't know about. That's the only way make a fantasy life come alive. What we have are only glimpses, with many juicy things left to the imagination and infinite stories to tell.

Pip - Are you Max Allan Collins agent? You bring up his name a lot. (Just wondering)

Oh, you've guessed my secret.

Well, I haven't watched the DVDs yet because I'm too damn poor to buy them (fucking college), so if anyone wants to send their poor unloved DVDs my way, I won't stop you.

However, I have dug out some of my old tapes and I've been rewatching a few of them, and then of course there's that Church of Jensen VCD that someone made that was an amalgam of all of Jensen's scenes, one after the other. Ah, no more having to fast forward through Max pouting or Grandpa being creepy to get to the good stuff.

But in my rewatching, I've found that it was a good show, though the ball was undeniably dropped (for many, many reasons) in the second season. I'm still less bitter and can enjoy S2 more now, though.

Was that the "Dark Alec" VCD that came from Cher's site and the COJ thread originally? I have a copy of it somewhere, and you're right -- it's great to be able to watch all of Jensen's scenes one after the other. I do that with the DVDs sometimes -- fast forwarding, but with that VCD you can pretend it was all Alec's show.

There was supposed to be a "Dark Alec II" -- I've got the outline for it around somewhere -- but the guy who was making it lost interest in DA after it was cancelled and moved on to the "Buffy" fandom. Last I heard he was working on a Spike VCD similar to the Alec one.

I think that she is an agent for Jensen Akles!



This is not the way to watch Dark Angel. It should be savored like a fine wine!

I think a majority of the posters on this thread are Jensen's agents. Myself included.

We only wish. . .

I'm an odd one, I've got Season 2 on DVD - I missed a few of the episodes, including Freak Nation, so I thought why not/I need my Ackles fic. I have no wish t buy the first series on DVD although I might buy them on video if I saw them cheap. But if it came back on UK terrestrial tv, I'd probably only bother taping Pollo Loco.

I found that once I get started watching them, I flow through them pretty quickly. The show was alot better than I'd remembered. Plus, no pesky commercials to sit through.

But it's pretty hard to savor that fine wine when you keep getting nasty, old-man grandpa tasting cork in your mouth.

Sorry. Hated the M/L scenes in S2. The suck was like whoa.

I just can't bring myself to spend the money on the DVDs. I keep looking at them and then telling myself I really should keep saving for the Forever Knight DVDs instead. I know, it sounds crappy of me, but other than the Mmmm-Alec, I just don't know why I would want to own the seasons. Granted, I liked most of the season one episodes and some of the season two; I just can't get over (or maybe I can't forgive) the mess that was made of season two. There was so much potential at the end of season one, and it just died. And even early season two, the potential for a slight turn but still toward great (okay - good) sci-fi was there, but then they went all FotW on us. Not to mention the wahing about the virus and the longing stares out the windows. We got it, note to the writers... we got it. Max and Logan couldn't be together. We didn't need a constant longing glare as a reminder. Bitter, bitter bitter. Plus, White was never as good as Lydecker. Plot lines were dropped out of the blue, new ones came out of nowhere. And the finale! Flying across on the hoverdrone! Logan saving Alec! The fight with Lita! Ugh! Just too much.

Maybe once the bitterness ends, I'll be able to pick the DVDs up cheap.

The finale is why I'll never own - or watch - another DA episode again. As much as I loved season 1, mmmAlec and the potential of the show, that shitacular finale ruined any of my desire to see another episode of DA again - ever. Which is why I was so thankful when it was cancelled.

A thread in another forum just had a reminder that when Cameron re-wrote the "Freak Nation" script, he axed one-half to three-fourths of Alec's scenes. There were originally some great Max/Alec shipper moments in that script, and they all went out the window in order to get in Lita and keep up the Logan/Max pretense of a relationship. (Thank goodness Alec at least got a great scene at the beginning of the episode -- "We prefer genetically empowered.")

I'm bitter. I admit it. If I were a billionaire I'd buy the DA rights from FOX and Cameron (no matter what the cost) and do a DA TV movie that got rid of M/L and established M/A in a very sexy way -- even if the movie was just for my own private viewing! (And I'd make the sex scenes NC-17, too, while I was at it!) <grin>

And I'm sure it didn't hurt that Alba and Weatherly were on friendly terms with that assfedora, Cameron.

Who ordered a pizza!



Jessica says that Cameron is a genius!



She means it to too! Definately the part about the NC-17 scenes.



Now that's the attitude. But, I'm taking break for DA viewing to a watch a space space western...Firefly.

Oh, and one thing that colors my view is that Jessica reminds me a lot of my mother.

You know, at the time I was a huge (and I do mean huge) fan of the WWE and with Lita being the 'leading lady' with my favorite tag-tem (the Hardy Boyz), I really figured I'd love Lita on DA. Yea, if a fan couldn't find anything nice to say about her... it wasn't going to work.
The M/L was bullshit. It made no sense. It would have been just as strong to have her standing there holding hands with Joshua or chummy-arm-in-arm with Alec, actually it would have made more sense. Even if there was no M/A love and they were just in the brother/sister/transie/friend mode, I'd have been fine. But the plastic glove of love was just wrong. Wrong, I tell you!

I'd love to see a DA movie just wrapping up the loose plot line. And no one say books... Max Collins or not. Unless my library gets them, I'm not reading them. And so far... none on the shelves.

Okay. I promise I won't say it, even if I am apparently the man's phantom (i.e. unpaid) representative. <grin>

They should have take one of the two chances during S2 to cure the stupid virus. Then there would be no need for gloves. Then Max and Logan could have a love scene and then we maybe could drop the matter. Or, maybe they could break up for some reason. Whatever.



Well if you want something for free why not read Valjean's site for the Alec oriented or
for a completely different approach check out Dark Angel Virtual Season 3 for a good simulation of what Fox might have done for season 3.

And there was I blaming the slow-motion shots. Bitter. Bitter. Bitter.

Question: if they were going to kill Logan at the end of season 1, what were the plans for Zack? Was he to stay a recurring character at the S1 level or was his role meant to increase or lessen? And if Logan had died, would they have got him a resurrection scene?

When they planned to off Log, he would of been gone for good. No resurrection in the works.
As for Zack, if I remember correctly, he would of been a greatly reduced semi-reoccurring character. FOX and DA Heads had no interest in him being the male lead.

Thanks scififan, I'm checking out the VS3 now. I've read valjean's site before, as well as quite the collection of fanfic. Some of which, I must say, was far better than what season two offered.

Dr Cher,

About this killing off Logan at the end of season 1, I understand that he like every ofter regular had only a one year contract while Alba had a five year contract. Ok, but they didn't get rid of everyone else for example O.C. So when exactly did this get rid of Logan plan and the resulting Alba rebellion occur?

They didn't even have Akles until Pollo Loco and without either Logan or Zack either it seems a sparse show. After Pollo Loco it seem that the DA people started thinking about how to get Akles on as a regular. And, the Fox people wanted Lydecker and Renfro out as well.

Did Weatherly actually know that he only had a one year gig or did he reasonably expect to be picked up if the show went into a second season and got hit with a nasty surprise?

Thanks for the info!

Well neither did I. Thing I recall most about him was it was funny when he argued with Logan, however between the incestuous skeeve and failing to kill Logan despite being a refitted nano-tech supersoldier I had very little interest in him.

Being the ignoramus about all this that I am, what was the thinking about axing off the S1 characters (Kendra, Bling and Herbal?)

The actress who played Kendra had trouble on the set, and I read on a forum awhile back that somehow the result of her being let go violated SAG contract regulations on her part which is why she's been gone from TV the past couple of years -- banned is the rumor I heard.

Bling is at least back in the novels, albeit in third person (referred to). The explanation was that after Logan got the exoskeleton he didn't need a physical therapist/bodyguard any more.

I haven't a clue about Herbal. Maybe viewers couldn't understand what he was saying. (I know I couldn't -- very annoying.)

I was sad to see Bling and Herbal go, but Kendra was just annoying. I remember the actress kept threatening to come back.

Zack as the male lead wouldn't have interested me. He was too in the words of Tinga, "huthut" for me. He played well as a recurring character though.

I loved Herbal, particularly in "Prodigal" where he's been saying "It's all good"--until he realizes Max is in the building as a hostage.

Dude! Do you remember what those scenes were supposed to be, specifically?


Assfedora is my new favorite word.



[Librarian Mode]You can get them through interlibrary loan. All you have to do is fill out a card at your library and they'll get them in the mail from a different library, free of charge.[/Librarian Mode]

Okay, so I've read the books now and I liked them. Some of the M/L parts pissed me off, simply because they existed, but they were easy to skim through. And it was really nice that the loose ends got all tied up. I thought the solution to "The Coming" was funny.

She had a nose candy problem. I don't think she is 'banned', but she is certainly black-balled. I hear she has a popular consignment shop in L.A. and has cleaned up her act a bit.


Let me tell you, everyone who worked for the series would always have a good laugh when they would read her 'threats'.

----

He knew the limits of his contract. I think the idea to get rid of Logan/MW was first thrown around before Xmas break '00. MW knew he was on 'borrowed time' and probably manipulated the hell out of young Alba. The girl was very isolated and insecure up in Vancouver, but now she's boinking Marky Mark and his abs, so I guess she's doing okay now.

FOX/DA did not want both Lydecker and Renfro out. Just one. Nana V. backed out only because of money (after leading the producers on), but by then they had already burnt their bridges with Savage. DA worked hard to try to win Savage back. He was going to direct, but MW fucked that up.

This just makes me sad. I loved Lydecker and I hated the way he was "bumped off".

Stupid MW, ruining my fun.

OTOH, the idea of JAlba boinking Mark Wahlberg amuses me.

I wonder if he kept the props from Boogie Nights?

Supposedly quite a bit of M/A scenes -- not romantic, but the beginning of "something." LATR was also supposed to be more M/A-centric, the "love" being between Max and Alec.

All of those scenes were left on the writing room floor, however, after Cameron got hold of the scripts. I'm sure the actors never even got to see them.

Does anyone know what Moira Kirland Dekker is doing now? What I wouldn't give to correspond with that lady about DA, but she's probably put it all behind her now and moved on. Wasn't she on another series right after DA that got cancelled too?

That's early like around Art Attack! Why did they want to do that back then...it can't be that they were charmed by Akles...this is before his famous antics.

When did this Alba/Weatherly love affair get going in earnest?



It (the idea ) probably amuses her too. I've been following this but I doubt that it is really what is happening. It does look like Mark may be interested though.

Oh word. although even stuff like how He had brought up Terminal City land beforehand so it was all his and he was giving it to the transgenics annoyed me too. It was so patronising to them and paternalistic and typically Logan.

With regard to MW/Logan, maybe they were playing around with dropping Eyes Only as a strand/catalys which would make Logan replaceable as a male lead - I think that with Max running around to clean up transgenic messes and so forth he (EO) was less important in the second series (I mean the stories seemed to carry less weight in the "grand scheme of things") and they may have made that decision back then. (Complete speculation.)

She's working on features now. After DA, she worked on Haunted and the new Twilight Zone.

Actually, I think it was that Logan had bought just the two buildings -- one in TC and the other just outside TC that had the tunnel between them.



I recall now that she wrote "Swim Fan." Dr. Cher, do you know the name of any features Moira's currently writing, or are they not to that stage of development yet?

Too bad television lost her. She had a great way of blending action with vulnerability and emotion in her characters, and she also knew how to write a male lead.

Yea, except the only DA book in any library in my state is the Eyes Only Dossiers and I don't want to read it. And we're not set up to interloan out of state yet. We do have an awesome request desk that will order just about anything. DA Novels are on the list, but none have arrived.


RE: Logan's death @ season one
It had nothing to do with JAckles, Logan's was to be an honorable death - his life given in order to save Max's. Logan should have gone out a hero, instead of a jealous asshatted chump.

Scififan, you MUST start spelling my boy's name right! <grin> It's Ackles, NOT Akles!