All these "what if" ideas. . .go write them out as fics for me to read, people. . .

Re Biggs/Krit and CeCe/Syl, that makes such sense because upon watching him and CeCe I was thinking “cannon fodder” “cannon fodder” for them to have been Syl and Krit or had more backstory would have made so much difference upon watching the episodes. Althouh Biggs’ actual death and the effect on the other characters was powerful upon second viewing, still. And all that ties into the point that they didn't really introduce the transgenics with any continuity, and weve all bitched enough about the FOTW problems.

I was under the impression that the Manticore base in Seattle was a downgrade from the Wyoming base because Manticore was in dire financial condition following Max's destruction of their gene lab. Everything had been moved to Seattle (which was already an operational base because 494 was assigned out of there on the Berrisford mission in 2017 -- I mean, the guy certainly wasn't reporting on a daily basis back to Wyoming was he?)

Renfro was trying to keep it secret from The Committee that the gene lab was gone, hence her breeding program of X5s to keep the babies coming. (Notice, also, that there weren't really all that many breeding pairs of X5s in that line when Alec said "twice". Fertile X5s seemed to be a rare commodity.)

In any case, Manticore was sorely lack funds, and this could be why there weren't any survillance cameras in the cells. They were operating on a "shoes string."

And Renfro didn't concoct the idea of infecting Max with the virus and sending her as an unknowing assassin to take out "Eyes Only" until almost three-quarters of the way through DT -- when Logan's blood sample was analyzed making it possible to manufacture the virus.

Remember how Renfro was trying to make a deal with Max, then suddenly said time was up? They then supposedly tortured Max (to make her think she might have revealed "Eyes Only's" location and thus spur her to escape to warn him) while actually merely rendering her unconscious and injecting her with the virus.

494 really was just Max's breeding partner in the beginning, but his mission was changed by Renfro to that of helping 452 escape which is why he didn't blow the whistle on Max when he found her missing from her cell and the hole in the wall. From that point on, it was all ostensibly an act with Alec -- his helpfulness, his supposed surprise at the nomalies in the basement (which he had to have known were there from being incarcerted there himself after Berrisford), etc.

What I always wondered was how did Alec find Max so quickly after she returned to Seattle? He obviously went back to the base after helping Max escape (he changed clothes) and didn't tail her immediately. Max almost had to have had a tracking device on her of some kind.

Oh well, the gist of what I'm saying is that once Manticore relocated its main base to Seattle, they weren't quite the big bad military organization they'd been in Wyoming. They were running out of money, and their science base had been destroyed. You got the feeling from Renfro The Committee wasn't too happy with Manticore any more anyway -- their popularity as a black ops organization plummeting after the '09 escape and Lydecker's subsequent failure to recapture the missing soldiers. Renfro seemed intent on keeping Manticre going (because she obviously knew this was a way to combat the coming Familiar plague), but she followed her orders to destroy the base (because all she really HAD to have was the genetic data base so she could start over somewhere else building her "army" to protect humans from the Familiars in the future.)

I loved the lines that come out of Alec's mouth.

Someone (The Doctor maybe?) said in Female Trouble that many of the X5s has lost the ability (or had it taken away from them) to reproduce. Therefore, there must not be that many left that can. (I'll have to look through my transcripts when I get home - or at lunch today!)


From TVGuide.Com: url=http://www.tvguide.com/tv/coverstory/]TV goes with God[/url]:
[...]Coming mid-season from Fox are Still Life, a family drama narrated by a murdered police officer who observes his loved ones from beyond the grave,[...]

The lady doctor said the male X5s were kept on birth control, not that any of them had been sterilized. Remember those morning vitamins of his that Alec was selling to the guards? <grin>



Very old news. They're looking to comment on shows involving "God" and since SL hasn't been officially cancelled they're referencing very old press releases. Berman said at TCA "no decision has been made" about SL, and it's obviously not on their spring schedule.

Best faint hope, it might be burned off over the summer, ostensibly under FOX's "new" summer programming. But when the sets have been taken down and no new episodes ordered you know the show is dead.

"Wonderfalls" has been filming at a frenetic pace ever since last July, has 13 episodes ready to go, and is slated for a Friday, 9 p.m. March debut (announced with fanfare). THAT'S how a new show is treated by FOX if it's thought to have a chance.

Thanks. I went and looked it up before coming back. Female Trouble wasn't one of my favs, and I guess I've blocked bits and pieces out...

VERTES: No, there’s no way the father could be transgenic. X5 males are routinely dosed with birth-control meds, as are most of the females. Only a few of the older ones are allowed to maintain their normal cycles, for research purposes.


Damn. And I was all excited too.

I think that this treats much to lightly the loss of the Manticore personnel in the "cauterization" and the subsequent White clean up operation. Even with the data Renfro would need 19 years to produce fully trained adult transgenic soldiers not counting the time it would take to set up the facility and recruit the doctors and biologists, etc to do the work.

It's a SciFi show. They could have adults in two seasons.

And, frankly, there's no reason Refro should know that the Familiars are on a particular schedule. She may have twenty, thirty, a hundred years to get ready for the Familiars. Or until next week.

I agree it was patently stupid for Renfro to "cauterize" Manticore. However, she did it, and apparently without a qualm.

Her only goal was retaining the pure science that could be used in the future. Sandeman's creations were nothing but "meat" to her, as she so eloquently put it.

This would go along with her being a government operative undercover at Manticore to oversee the transgenics' creation because she had inside information about the cult's ultimate plan to destroy the human race.

I agree but to me the transition running from Meow through Designate This seemed way to contrived. I don't buy the idea that Lydecker would respond to the situation he finds himself by destroying his lifes work. It isn't as if there isn't a good alternative either, i.e. assassinate Renfo. And, he clearly has to ways to go about it. First would be to use the killer hover drone and second would be to direct Zack, Max, & co. in her direction as the she is the killer of Tinga. Once Refro is out of the way he could assume command and blame someone else for doing it. (The committees control seems a little loose with Renfro not reporting the attack on the genetics lab for example.)

Clearly we just have the programs new direction being implemented with no regard to the characters known or probably behaviors.

Remember though, that Lydecker wasn't able to order the final destruction of the genetics lab. Didn't Logan have to punch him and push the button himself? Am I remembering that right?

I wonder how much influence MW had with that scene...

Yes, Lydecker did have a last minute moment of doubt. But, he set the whole situation up. Zack, Max, etc. had to be convinced that they really could take down Manticore, that the genetics lab was the best target, and came up with an eye to get in give that his access had been revoked by Renfro. He didn't have to do that. I think that all he had to do was point them at Renfro directly as enemy number one and Zack in particular would be so pissed off they he go take her out.

Ah, but then Lydecker got to punch Logan in return when Logan wouldn't leave Max's "body" behind.

As for the X5s simply being pointed at Renfro, I think Lydecker was afraid he'd never be in charge again, and figured destroying everything was the only way to insure The Committee didn't just send in another person who wanted to use the X5s in a twisted way ... who would keep "killing his kids."

This is a risk but once Renfro was out of the way, I think that he could assume command and file a very negative report on Renfro's activities. Little she was doing was authorized...including the attempt on Lydecker with the Hover drone. I really doubt that the Tinga incident was authorized either, nor as you point out was the DT episodes breeding program. I think that by moving immediately after the attack on Renfro the Manticore troops would probably obey Lydecker as they were no doubt puzzled by Renfro orders but we duty bound to obey. Once in effective charge of Manticore a "dead man" could be come a force to be feared indeed.

Plus by feeding Eyes Only certain information selectively Lydecker could put the committee on the defensive politically.

But it was implied that Renfro had been insinuating herself into Manticore for a long time ... years maybe. Wasn't she originally referred to as "Madam X" where no one knew who she was other than a voice on the phone? Even Lydecker didn't know who she was?

I don't think it would have been that easy to supplant her with the troops. Remember how Brin followed Renfro's orders and not Lydecker's? As did Sandoval.

Lydecker had been being undermined for quite awhile, actually ever since the '09 escape when he lost a lot of face with The Committee and finding the runaways took priority for him over the rest of Manticore.

I always got the feeling on DA that Lydecker truly loved his "kids" in a twisted kind of way. They were his children, although he treated them more like pets or posessions than sentient beings. But he would go to bat for them every time, and was truly horrified when Tinga was killed, as well as going against orders to "shoot to kill" the runaways. He was also protecting Max when he was going to kill her in the hotel room rather than see her captured by Renfro -- a twisted act of love. Yet he brutally tortured Zack -- albeit for his kids' own good because he felt like he absolutely HAD to find their locations. He also personally killed Eva, as well as another one of the escapees in BEFORE THE DAWN. It's as if he takes full responsibilities for the X5s, and even though he cares deeply about them, sees it as his ultimate duty to make certain they aren't unleashed on mankind -- until all of that became moot when every single one of the X5s was released into the world anyway. Whole new ball game then for 'Deck, and his choice was to join his kids' team -- a place he still has at the end of AFTER THE DARK.

He truly is a complex "father figure" and it would be interesting what would happen if he ever was confronted by Sandeman. (Hmmm, a fanfic story idea is emerging here.)

Ok, but in my scenario Renfro as been killed either by Zack & Co. or by a armed hover drone. Then Lydecker makes his move. I'm guessing that the remaining people are relatively junior and would easily be bullied into obeying Lydecker because he out ranks everyone left. I think Renfro was able to do the same because she out ranked Lydecker.

Remember, that Lydecker has already eliminated Sandoval. My issues is why not go all the way and finish the job. If it was done with the hover drone (which isn't offically in the inventory) or by Zack in revenge for Tinga, Lydecker can deny all knowledge of who did it in his report (claim to be investigating) but assure them that he's things under control.



This should be interesting.

Are you deliberately quoting Alec from "Freak Nation?" <grin>

Programming heads up: Martin Cummins is on the new Andromeda this week.

And if you're a Jensen Ackles fan there's a photo of him taken yesterday over at the JRAU forum (JensenRAcklesUnlimited.com). He's standing beside Christian Kane holding a case of beer at the Silver Spoon Golden Globes Beauty Buffet (can't fathom why he was there).

He looks the same as usual -- just fine.

Hey, Pip, I can't get that link to work. :(

Hate it when that happens.

Try www.jraunlimited.com. It's in their forum section. You will probably have to register to check it out.

He looks kind of rough. Is he friends with Kane? Kane is a freak. He refers to himself in the third person. I hear it's very annoying after two hours.

Could one of those who's found the photo give a little more info about where on these forums it is? I tried, but they've got a lot of vague, random threads, and I've no idea where it is, and no desire to poke aorund indefinately to find out. And, yeah, you do have to register, although they claim you don't, and that's even more fun. Ooh, and [/b]lots[/b] of pop-ups! [/sarcastic voice]

WireImage has a teeny version of the pic here.

It's under "Jensen Current Events" New Picture thread.

Kane is good friends with David Boreanaz, which is why he's currently on "Angel." I rather imagine Jensen just happened to be in the beer place at the same time as Kane and so the photographer told them to stand together.

And in the other photos I seriously doubt Jensen is "with" Dierdre Hall. <grin>

Photographers set up these kinds of shots.

Interesting though, that Jensen doesn't seem to be "with" anyone, as in of the female kind. Also glad he's still a black t-shirt, jeans kind of guy.

0.02% of my Fametracking mind suspects that Jensen is a closet case.

Yeah, and considering I've heard the same rumors about CK, I have to admit my first thought was that they were there together.

Okay, the thought's crossed my mind as well. I mean, hasn't Jensen had the same guy roommate for years -- who he also took with him to that wedding in Orlando last June?

But, on the other hand, wasn't he seriously involved with "Lisa" for like three years during his stint on DOOL. (I know. I know. It could have all been a publicity set-up. It happens.)

And there was another actor I was almost certain leaned that way, and for years I thought so, then I found out he was just really quiet about his dating (of girls).

Really, it's not fair to speculate, although it's also hard not to.

Oh well, at least we know which way "Alec" swings. <big grin>

BTW, Jensen is one of EOnline's "Sixteen Sizzlin." There's a nice article about him on their website.

Ohhhhhhhhhh. My 0.02% has jumped to 8%.

Now Dr. Cher, there could be a perfectly innocent, logical explanation -- like maybe both Jensen and his roommate were friends of the bride (Jensen was in the wedding party, BTW). <grin> But that Jensen fan who reported meeting him in a bar in Orlando last June said Jensen was there -- at the bar -- with his roommate (a really nice guy).

That was the first time I ever wondered ...

But maybe Jensen's got a Texas sweetheart (of the female kind) we just don't hear about. It's not as if Jensen's in the spotlight much right now, so we would never know.

Christian Kane is good friends with David Boreanaz, BTW, and David is married and a father, so it could just be a friendship thing too between Jensen and CK.

Ack, I just remembered something! In an interview last year, when asked if he had a girlfriend, Jensen's reply was "I'm currently involved with someone." Now that's an ambigious answer, isn't it? Then, when asked more about it, the folk who run Jensen's newsletter replied that, although Jensen had been out on a couple of dates, he DIDN'T have a girlfriend.

Honestly, until the guy gets married and has a child (to prove the relationship is for real and not a Tom Cruise/Nicole Kidman staged type of thing), we'll never know for sure. Personally, as for myself, I think he's straight -- but I wouldn't bet money on it.

Pip, the more you post, the higher the rating goes. 12.494% now.


Jensen, if you are reading this, it's okay. We still love you regardless.

Absolutely! It doesn't matter to us who moves your futniture!

As long as we can watch.

Now that is just sad! Your golden boy may not even be straight. Well, I'd say that its all probably nonsense but after Rock Hudson turned out to really be gay I'm not a good judge of this.

Does his roommate have a girlfriend?




I thought they had kids? And, broke up over Scientology vs Catholicism!

Sorry to say this proves absolutely nothing one way or the other. Men of all sexual orientations, in my experience, co-mingle quite successfully. Well assuming they aren't homophobic assholes.



Why is it sad? It's not like sexual orientation is the only thing that could get in the way of me and JAckles riding off into the sunset. Once you accept that it's all just a fantasy anyways, it really doesn't matter if the object of that fantasy is married, gay or has a seafood fetish. My mother had Rock Hudson lust and I remember how disapointed she was when she found out he was gay. And I said to her (note: my mom at the time, late 30's married with three kids): Yeah, because that was the only thing that was keeping you apart. Same thing here. I don't know who JAckles keeps warm with at night and quite frankly I don't care. Whatever makes him happy is fine with me. All I know is that he is yummy to look at and a great actor and at the end of the day that's good enough for me.

Besides, it makes my gay friends all happy when I tell them JAckles may be playing for their side. :)

Topic, finally got the dvds for season 1 and I find myself ranting at them, but enjoying them nonetheless. But I've only been able to watch the Pilot so far.

[ot]Nicole Kidman and The Tooth's kids are adopted[/ot]

The only role I felt 'straight' vibes from Jensen was in DA. But then, I've only seen him in 3 things. When I first saw him as Eric Brady, my gaydar was going wild!

But if he's gay, more power to him. In fact, I want pictures! Hoyay! is muy sexy.

But he was in Orlando in June? Damn it! I could've driven to try to get a peek at him. </stalkerish vibe>

Unfortunately, once a young male actor officially comes "out," his roles are limited. That's just a fact of Hollywood. No more leading man or teen heartthrob parts -- just sidekicks, best friends, and emotionally quirky characters.

So, as far as I'm concerned, Jensen is straight as an arrow. Please, no one touch my fantasy (I mean that figuratively AND literally) and let me keep my suspension of disbelief intact. <big grin>

It's exciting though that it looks as if that "E! Sizzlin Sixteen" is going to be an actual television event sometime soon. Maybe we'll finally get a little "live" Jensen.

Everytime I see the phrase "in Orlando" I get NC-17 images of Jensen and Orlando Bloom. Don't you wish you could live in my head?

Hey, I really do live in Orlando! <grin>

I given this a little thought. First, I think that Ackle is definately straight. Don't worry Pip! <grin>

He has always seemed to me to the kind of guy that would be a good buddy. The sort that is out going and very friendly with everyone but at the same time very hard to really know. Also, I get the feeling that is he is a very sensitive person. He takes his feeling very seriously. As such although he is very desirable to women at the same time I think that he doesn't feel very confortable getting to intimate too fast.

Another thing is that if the lady in his life isn't a famous person she might just be falling off the media radar screen.

Or he could be dating a number of different girls just for fun and nothing serious. Jensen also has made it clear he doesn't like to hang out at parties and Hollywood events much, so he wouldn't be in the media, hence no press coverage of his personal life.

In the latest interview of his he said he'd worked on a comedy independent film last year (acting AND producing) and it sounded as if he might have been traveling a bit to different film festivals showing the film. I don't think the film made Sundance, however.

Dear God. How is my boss gonna take it when I tell him I have to go home and take a cold shower?

Geez, I'm gone for a few days and come back to this! Jensen is not gay - la la la la la, I can't hear you! He's sitting at home waiting for me to save up the money to fly out there and meet him so he can make me his wife.
So there!

Here's a question:

Who the fuck cares?

I mean, it's not like any of us are going to meet him at a nightclub and marry him or anything...er except you of course Sci Fi Gal :)

It's not important to us. Being gay, he'd still be hot, and very droolable over.

Well, um, actually, a couple of gal fans DID meet him last spring in a nightclub really near where I live. He just happened to be hanging out there for the evening while attending a wedding in Orlando (as mentioned in an earlier post). They just walked in, and there he was, with his roommate, sitting at a table with no one recognizing him. They had quite a nice chat with him, about DC and acting and stuff.

So, chance meetings can happen ...

I've met and talked with a couple of TV "stars" myself, by chance. Not really famous people ... but fairly well known ones. The actor James Best, who used to play the deputy on "The Dukes of Hazzard" is a neighbor of mine. He read my published novel and told me he really liked it. We frequent the same restaurants and I always go up and chat a bit with him when I see him, now that he knows I'm a neighbor and not a stalker. <grin>

I interviewed Conchata Ferrell (and of course no one knows who she is, but she's a character actress) for a small newspaper I used to edit in my home town -- her parents lived there and she was visiting.

Anyway, I think meeting Jensen for real is a lot more likely than meeting say ... Brad Pitt or Harrison Ford. He seems to go to pretty ordinary events and hang out just like "real" people.

Word. Cause now, in my fantasies (thanks to Raksha), Orlando Bloom is going to dump that fugly Kate Bosworth and marry Jensen. And they're going to star in my fantasies (right after Orli and Viggo...mmmm)...

Thanks, Rak! :)

Well for most of us, it's a less realistic assumption, Pip.

Really for me, it's all fantasy. Plus, I'm one of those people who thinks that people have the right to fuck anyone they want given it's all over 18 and consensual and that no-one has the right to pry into that. So my little JAckles fantasies are happily unrealistic and his real sex life is his own business. Everybody's happy.

Anything to further the cause of HoYay!