From TCTKTTOPO:

Hey everybody! Happy New Year! Ooh, maybe I'll go write a New Year fic. Give everybody at CSC a little champagne and see what happens.

Two more days before I have to go back to Tokyo. Taking the DVDs with me this time. I'll work on how I'm going to watch them later:)

We're on page 3???? Bloody hell people!! *smile*

Anywayz, Just wanted to mention that I just watched S.W.A.T. with the DVD commentary of cast and director and one of the cast members giving commentary was JC. He was pretty quiet though, he didn't say much which bugged me but when he did speak up he had some funny comments and such. I really would've loved to have heard both him and Colin Farrel doing commentary though.

Boogie shoes!

I was really not going to try and rent the film, mostly because every photo I saw of the film, JC was obscurred or behind someone like Colin (who I am not a big fan of) and that was so wrong. But now that I know he's on the commentary well I could give it a try. Too bad you can't pinpoint exactly when he speaks up, or would that be a tad obsessive?

The only two parts where he really speaks up that I can think of are when they are in the S.W.A.T training camp for the first time and he goes head to head with Colin and then near the end during the climax scene in the plane. Other than that, he makes a couple of comments here and there but like I said before, he stays pretty quiet.

I finally got the Sports Night DVD (thanks Santa!). I was able to catch the episodes I missed during the original run and in re-runs on CC.

I had never seen the seminal Sally episode. Never.

Of course I knew all about the "you're wearing my shirt, Gordon", but I hadn't seen it until the DVD.

Great scene. Great line. Great delivery. Peter Krause knocks it out of the park.

And yet I have a nitpick...How did Casey know that Gordon's generic white dress shirt was his missing shirt? And why did that bother me so much?

Because it was his favorite shirt.

What naugastyle said, and well, because he's Casey. It made perfect sense to me for Casey to be able to identify a relatively unremarkable white dress shirt. He'd been thinking about the missing shirt all day, too, right? It was on his mind.


Yes'm. He really does.


In this group? Not bleedin' likely.


And, er, other untoward things. Go, pj! Be sure to let us know how it turns out. And where to read it.

Happy 2004, all. I hope everyone is having a stupendous year so far.

/Bump

I never had any problems believing that Casey would recognize his own shirt. Just something about his personality says that.

It was probably the shirt he was wearing the very first time he listened to the Starland Vocal Band's "Afternoon Delight" on his Time-Life Sounds of the Seventies album. You just don't forget things like that.

THAT was funny. Good one, Alan.

Dan is looking over my shoulder as I'm typing, saying, "SURE, he could remember the shirt but not our anniversary!!" Dan's a little testy.

Obsessed, much????


OK, wlfdncer and I are sharing a brain. I watched the commentary too and the first thing I thought was that JC was very quiet and the second thing I thought was that wlfdncer would be a tad upset!!! Hi, how you doing?
I watched the making of featurette as well and he is a little more vocal during the interview part.

Page 2 is wrong, wrong, wrong!!

ETA: I blame this edit on posting so soon after Alan Swann. Sorry Alan but that is one of the causes of ASES.

D'oh!!!! I didn't watch the making of featurette!!! Now I wish that I had.

I'm doin ok FI, you haven't emailed lately.*pout*

Hm. I just can't decide whether or not to buy SWAT. I hated it. I mean, I HATED it, but I just love Josh Charles so much. But then I hate what they did to his character.

*sigh*

I'm so torn.

you could always just rent it whenever you feel the urge for a little JC. *shrugs*

Hi, I'm new to this board and just wanted to share my love for Sports Night. I still have some recorded episodes that I refused to overtape. Plus, it saves me from going out and buying the DVDs although I'll probably buy them anyways.

teahater, I would just rent S.W.A.T. if you ever have that urge. I feel the exact same way you do, especially since I love Josh Charles.

Welcome, nerdyduck. What are your favourite episodes, quotations, characters etc?
I bought the SWAT DVD but I enjoyed the movie, both times I saw it in the cinema!!! Oh well that is only me. Renting is also a very good option.

This is the first time I've posted in this subject - I never watched SN when it was on (I went through a seven year period of not having TV, so I hadn't even heard of it before). I recently started watching the Bravo repeats of The West Wing, and had heard good things about SN here and there on TWOP, so after Christmas I went out and got both the SN DVD set and the season one DVD set of TWW.

So first of all - is Dana played by the same woman who was in Profiler?

Secondly, it's really interesting to watch both DVD sets simultaneously. There are a lot of things used in SN that were also used in TWW, so I had intermittant deja vu while watching.

As far as how I felt about the series, I didn't love it. I thought it was a decent show, but it felt kind of awkward - I think the blurb for SN in Permanent Hiatus says something like "it didn't know if it wanted to be a comedy or a drama" and I completely agree with it. I had maybe one laugh at loud moment every episode, which is a lot better than most shows on right now, but it wasn't anything that I would have made a special point of watching while it was on. I mean, SN definitely had its good points - I loved the dynamic between Casey and Dan, and loved those characters, along with Isaac and sometimes Natalie. However, Jeremy and Dana were almost always completely irritating. The whole dating plan plot was moronic. I cringed during the letters to Louise episodes. Jeremy and Natalie's relationship seemed to consist of "I'm dorky!" "I'm horny!" and that was about it. I didn't find myself "shipping" any two characters except for maybe Dan/Natalie.

I think I watch TV shows and find myself more interested in the characters than the actual plots. And like I said, there were some very strong characters on SN. But it's kind of like Friends - I really like Chandler, but detest Monica and Ross to the point where I can't even stand to turn on the show. I wasn't to that point in SN, but I definitely lost a lot of interest while watching the DVDs whenever Jeremy and Dana came on the screen.

I wish the tertiary characters had been used more, I think they had a lot of potential. Dan's character was incredible, and I would have been happy to have a whole show just focused on him. All in all, I don't regret buying ths DVDs, and I was definitely entertained enough to keep watching the set the whole way through, but I'm still a little bit disappointed. I wanted to fall in love with this show like I had with Firefly or The West Wing, but it's just not happening.

By the way, one of my biggest laughs in the show was the mention of Sacco and Vanzetti. Hee!

Dana = Felicity Huffman
Profiler woman = Ally Walker

Whoa. It's been 55 hours since I began watching the SN DVD set, and now I'm done. I definitely liked most of it. Loved some – and then there was the dating plan (there aren't words to describe it, quite frankly).

But I gotta tell ya, I had no idea Peter Krause was so good in this! I remembered him from Cybill (not that I ever, you know, watched it or anything) and was aware of him in SFU, but why didn't anyone hit me over the head and tell me he is this frickin' good? Lord, he definitely has replaced Deputy Downer as my tv boyfriend. (Buh-bye.)

I was glad to see how many people associated with TWW were involved in this series. I actually cheered for Janet Ashikaga in "Six Southern Gentlemen from Tennessee"!

All the episodes are blending together, but fave episode would have to be Smoky at the moment. Yay! for the Finland mentions. And Dan's / Josh Charles's pronounciation of Esa-Pekka Salonen was pretty damn impressive.

This has made me realize how much I miss Benjamin and Tommy!Schlamme!. More later. I have to, you know, catch up on reality. I'll stick around...

I'm the opposite - I love SportsNight, but I just never could get into The West Wing. Whatever magic Aaron Sorkin infused into SportsNight just seems to be missing. Many people have commented on the wonderful dialog in TWW during Sorkin's tenure there (and mentioned his tendency to repeat material from SportsNight and other projects such as The American President), so I don't think it was that. I guess that I just didn't find the characters as well conceived, whereas I really think that he came up with a good ensemble for SN (which was also superbly cast as well).

I also freely admit that my lack of love for TWW is no doubt at least partly due to the differing subject matters. Politics is "serious", and sports is not - and while Sorkin was not shy about injecting political perspectives into SportsNight, that's not what drove the plots. I guess that when I'm looking for some escapism, I don't necessarily want to get wrapped up with political discussions, regardless of whether I agree or disagree with the positions being taken. Both sides of the political spectrum are more than capable of coming up with tiresome rhetoric, and I prefer it in small doses (as occasionally sprinkled into SportsNight) rather than as a main course during leisurely TV watching, particularly during an election year. After all, we're about to be inundated with more than enough political rhetoric over the next 11 months.

I have been a long term fan of The West Wing. I am not at all interested in politics but this show kind of changed that. I have learned little things from the show but I wouldn't claim to know what is going on at times. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I don't live in the US and that politics in Ireland is slightly different. Still I do enjoy the show and never miss an episode. It was from West Wing that I heard about Sports Night. I adore both shows for very different reasons. I love the characters and levity of SN while I enjoy the intellectual aspect of the WW. Having said that I'm not trivialising SN, there are some serious moments and thought provoking scenes in the show.

I must agree with Fighting Irish. I first saw The West Wing and then heard about Sports Night. They eventually showed it here in Australia at midnight after the wrap up show during the Winter Olympics. Only 11 eps. I stayed up and taped them. I fell in love with the show. There are times when I just want to slap both Dana and Natalie. They drive me nuts. I love the Casey/Dan dynamic and both of their relationships with Isaac.

I think the main reason I love both shows is because they don't treat me like I'm stupid. It's refreshing. While the topics are entirely different, they are both smart shows.

I think I feel differently than most...

I always felt that SN was such a great concept becaue it blended well-written comedy and drama in the surprise setting of a late night sports show.

The typical "jocks & sports folks are dumber than a sack of hair" refrain didn't resonate in SN because of how smartly the characters where written and played.

When I attempted to watch TWW, I found the snappy banter and long winded Sorken-speak, that makes SN, annoying and trite when set against the politically tinged White House backdrop.

**I should probably add the disclaimer that I share more of Sorkin's political views than I oppose, since ideology is often a criticism of TWW.**

I know its much more popular and critically aclaimed, but I've never connected with TWW they way I do with SN.

As an aside, I just purchased new pair of glasses. The clerk was showing me a few different setswhen she suggested I try on the frames in "gunmetal." Sold!

I'm another SN convert because of TWW (and these boards, I might add). I was watching the first episodes of S1, and while I acknowlegde The Apology and Dan's speech on-air to be perfect, I'm happy Sorkin et al didn't try to cram more serious themes in SN.

T6SGfTT, for example: I appreciate the theme and admit that it provoked some thoughts in my head, but there just wasn't enough time to explore the topic in a satisfactory manner. I'm glad TPTB dropped the political themes and opted to explore the characters themselves.

One favorite example of this was in WKODHIB, when Casey talks to Charlie and ends the conversation with "I'm your father. Who'd you think I was?" I really liked Peter Krause's delivery in the scene. (I really like Peter Krause in general. While I see that Josh Charles attracts quite a fanbase here, any other PK fanatics wanna join me here?)

However, I am alone in thinking that there's no way Charlie would have understood anything from the conversation pretty soon after "you were scared during that"? I loved Casey's little speech, but, c'mon, Charlie is nine years old. (I realize the writing isn't aimed that particular demo.) They could've fixed with a few shots of Charlie looking confused and worried, and end it with a happy look after Casey smiles at him.

Me! Me! I love Peter Krause and Casey has been my favorite SN character from the beginning. The first episode I ever saw was Intellectual Property and the bit with the fly in the studio just cracked me up.

I also have never gotten into TWW that much. For me, it's all about the characters. I can appreciate the writing and direction of a show like TWW, but I have to love the characters in order for the show to really grab me the way SN did. I liked these people, foibles and all, and I enjoyed spending time in their company.

Hee! I'm sitting here on my lunch break reading a book called Good in Bed by Jennifer Weiner (very good book, btw). I just read this passage, where her family is trying to figure out why the baby is crying:

"Maybe she's hungry," said Tanya.

"Wet diaper," suggested my Mom.

"Disappointed with ABC's prime-time lineup," I said.

Peter cracked up.

"Well, she's a very discerning viewer," I said, bouncing Joy against my shoulder. "She really liked Sports Night."

Yay!!!!!

Love it! One more book for my (ever-lengthening) gotta-read list.


Exactly.

I just have to shout out to BewarethePhog....I take it you're a fellow Jayhawk?

Anyhow...Just thought I'd share in the Sportsnight love. I still miss some of the Casey/Dan moments. PK and JC had awesome chemistry. I'm contemplating a DVD purchase...All the talk here makes me think it's worth it.

kschica, as somebody told me when I asked whether I should buy the DVD "Run, do not walk to buy the DVD's". I have never regretted buying them. I love sitting down and rewatching certain episodes. They cheer me up no end when I'm feeling down.
eeowyn You picked one of my favourite Casey moments

That exchange between Casey and Charlie was just so sweet and the acting was spot on. Yay for PK.. The kid was very good as well.

I recently purchased the dvds, kschica, and I heartily agree with Fighting Irish's "Run, don't walk" advice.

I never saw this show at all when it was on, but am such a Sorkin fan that I had to buy Sports Night just to see it. I have never been so pleased with myself. I cannot believe that this show was cancelled.

So far, I have made it to the end of Season 1, and the last scene in WHODHIB kills me every time (I re-watch compulsively).
When Dana is breaking down over her camera exploding, ranting and raving about how she wants just one good thing to happen before the end of the day, then she turns around to see Isaac standing there. I was completely caught off-guard the first time I watched it, and it took my breath away. Big, crazy, heaving, gulping, sobbing, crying-at-the-television moment for me. Wow.

Uh-uh eeowyn and HeadCase, step away from Peter Krause, I laid claim to him a long time ago ;-)

And I’m both a Sports Night and West Wing fan. Though I’m with the masses who are crying at the fate of what the latter has become.

Loved that book. And In Her Shoes too.

I'm new here and I don't wanna get in between anything, so... fayzer – you wouldn't consider sharing, now would you? (Sharing is nice, you know.) ;-)

I actually had a thing. I was reading Sorkin's interview at Comedy Central, and Sorkin mentioned sitting down with "the (probably) most famous tv director" for the Pilot, and didn't really like what he had to say about the show. Anyone have an idea who this guy was, as my mind is drawing a complete blank?

HeadCase wrote:

I love that episode. He is such a talented comedian. (It's all good, baby. I'm feeling the SN love, whee!)

And I have to say, I was really impressed about Felicity Huffman's moves in "Dear Louise". I wonder if she had to take any directions from T!S! That thought cracks me up, though.

I loved Good in Bed too. That certainly had me cracking up and squealing "shout out" to an empty flat.

I also loved the Casey/Charlie scene. It was beautifully done and that kid so looked like a young Casey. It chokes me up every time. I also love Dan's line to Casey "He's such a good little guy". There was so much affection there that I get all teary just typing about it. I'm such a sap.

I loved the "Isaac returns" scene. Particularly, the "you look good boys". Dan and Casey's relationship with Isaac, both together and individually is probably my favourite relationship (apart from Dan and Casey's).

I must admit I really liked the break up scene with Dana and Gordon. It was also well done. And then the follow up scene with Casey (you know, "you're funny)...that tentative flirting. *sigh* So sweet.

libby, I liked Isaac's scene with Dan and Casey, too. I half expected him to give them a little of the OldIsaac sass, though: "Let me look at you," looks them over, "You're exactly as ugly as I remembered you." Or, you know, something funny.

Okay, so what I said before about the compulsive watching? Still a problem.

I went home at lunch today and could NOT stop myself from watching the first s2 episode. I need a 12-step program.

Dana's hair? Swoon. Love it longer and softer around her face.
"What took you so long, McCall?" Wow. Her voice all low and growly. Wow.
Casey's face? Swoon. His little looks of longing, and his sweet little smile just before the kiss. Swoon again.
The kiss? YAY! hooray! and swoon.

God, I missed feeling this way about a television show. [/crying about the state of TWW]

Absolutely Crimson & Blue-blooded. It's always great to see another Jayhawk on the boards, welcome! Keep an eye out for terrilynn, she's another one of us who posts on TWOP.


Let me add my voice to those who suggested that you run out immediately and pick it up - the SportsNight DVD set is, without a doubt, a proverbial "what one (CD, DVD, book, etc) would you want to have with you if you were marooned on a desert island" item. But be aware that they're addictive - you're likely to show up at work the next day bleary-eyed because you had to watch just one more episode the night before.


I don't know the quote, but I wonder if it was James Burrows, who has done work on many other notable shows including Cheers, Taxi, 3rd Rock, Wings, Will & Grace, Dharma & Greg, and others.

James Burrows sounds about right. Here's the quote from Comedy Central: (go here to read the whole thing)



I can't get over just how much crap they had to take from the network. I loved Aaron's last dig at ABC: "Anybody who can't make money off of Sports Night should get out of the money-making business."

eta to provide the link

*shudder*

There used to be people who complained that they couldn't tell Dan and Casey apart. I think those must have been the people the mystery director was aiming at. "Duh, I get it! That one's short and that one's gay! Wait, I mean, that one's a slob and that one's a woman! Oh, damn, TV too complicated!"

Sure, the guys had their similarities (they'd been best friends for ten years, after all) and they both spoke Sorkin-ese, but their personalities were clearly distinct if you just took the time to get to know them. And if people didn't want to take the time -- fine, there are a million shows that cater to those folks. They couldn't let us have this one?

tita: Hell, the "Isaac returns" scene still makes me tear up. Partly because of the horrible breakdown Dana's having, and the way her face just lights up when she sees him.

The scene where Isaac returns always and I mean always makes me blub. Yes, I am a sap but this show does that to me. What makes it moving for me is the genuine affection all the characters show for Isaac. It seems to me that the actors themselves through their characters are showing us genuine respect and affection for RG. Am I reading too much into this scene?

libby That exchange I just love. It is the look on Isaac's face as he delivers the line. It shows affection far beyond boss/employee. I love the look on both Dan and Casey's face at this moment as well. I LOVE THIS SHOW.......
*sob, sob* Is it wrong to skip out of work to go home to watch Sports Night? It is, ok then I will just have to wait til I get home.....

Edited to remove one too many "then"s

Oh, libby, you and me both! I think it's totally right that Dan should love Charlie. Partly because he would love Casey's child, and also, hello, father issues? Aw.

tita, I feel your pain, too. "Whatcha been waitin' on, McCall? It's sixty days." I, uh, er ... ::blither::

And something about the way Dana says Isaac's name when he comes back just in time for "something good to happen" still gives me chills.

Can it really be James Burrows who said that Dan & Casey had to be Oscar & Felix? How ... sad. I read once that Sorkin called Sports Night "the story of a man and his faithful dog," which sounded rather awful, until I realized I couldn't tell who was supposed to be the man and who the dog. And then somehow it was okay. ;)

FI, sugar, you sit your ass down. You can't skip work just for OPBSN, even if you're in the zone. Trust me, I know this.

No, I do.

Sandman Pardon my ignorance but what does OPBSN mean? *blushes with embarrassment* Obviously SN is our beloved Sports Night but what does OPB mean? Thanks for the pep talk.... said so eloquently!! BTW how are you babe?

Our Poor Beloved, on account of how shabbily SN was treated by the Asshat Broadcorping Castration. (See oh so many of my posts, above.) Don't mind me, I'm in government, you see, so I speak fluent acronym, to the dismay of - not that many, really, now that I think about it.

I'm just ducky, thanks. Hope you're the same.

eeowyn, thanks for the link to the full interview. It's hard to believe that James Burrows would have been so limited in his thinking, since he's worked on so many good (and often innovative) sitcoms. But I suppose that in the end, most of the characters even on those shows are somewhat easily pigeonholed, so perhaps that's a mindset that he couldn't overcome.

From the interview eeowyn linked to:


I was always mad at ABC before - but if this is true, then I'm truly livid at them. I was under the impression that Sorkin's desire to have SN on HBO was one-sided, and that they didn't return the interest. But if this quote is true, and ABC sabotaged HBO's picking up of the show (presumably over an inability to come to financial terms) then that's just too much.


Let's take this a step further - ABC presumably dropped the show because the ratings were too low, and therefore they weren't making enough money. HBO then comes along and offers to pay ABC for the rights to the show, but ABC decides that their offer isn't good enough, so they turn them down.

But if ABC was dropping the show anyway, they wouldn't be making any money from the show, so why turn down the chance to get something for it? The only logical explanation is that they feared that HBO could use SN to take audience away - but if SN was a worthy enough draw for ABC to fear HBO using it to steal ABC viewers, then why would they want to drop it in the first place?

Somehow I get the feeling that while we can credit Sorkin with creating wonderful dialog, perhaps we can only give partial credit for character and plot creation - because odds are that the J.J. character is a direct lift from real life.

Thanks Sandman that clears that up for me. Now I can sleep at night again!!!!

eeowyn, Peter has agreed that I can share him with you every other weekend ;-).

tita, since I believe this is your first viewing, let me warn you about the horrendousness of the dating plan which you should be encountering shortly. It’s great reliving the first time viewing pleasure through other people though. My BF is coming to visit next weekend and she only has one disk left to see so that is our big Saturday night plan.

BTP, hee! Good call. Also, aaaargh. The speculation you raise from the article seems sound, and if true, suggests a situation which is truly infuriating. Thanks for helping me reach my target heart-rate for the day. ;)

I guess Sorkin had his share of network involvement (imposing?) throughout the show's run. I remember reading from TWW Script Book that when he first presented the pilot script to an ABC executive, their response was that the show should be more Frasier. I love Sorkin's comeback, though: he wished it would have been more like Birth of a Nation but life's like that sometimes. Hee!

BTW, I always assumed that Sorkin and the show were majorly screwed over by the network, and just reading about HBO's offer and how ABC turned it down confirms my suspicions. [sigh] It is wrong to wish that every good show could be on HBO from now on? (Not that I'm a huuuge fan of their programs, but I hope every writer/director/producer/actor could have that kind of creative freedom.)

fayzer: we'll work out the details of the custody settlement (bed-times, care etc.) later? Thanks, babe.

I watched "Dear Louise" last night. Funny fun-stuff. I always laugh at Natalie's attempts to scare the writer's block away. I only have one complaint: was I the only one annoyed by the final scene, when the beach volleyball player was sitting on the photocopier? That was just so tacky. And the "why men do anything: to impress women" was hardly better. Feh. But I still enjoy Dan and Casey's lame dance moves, and I'm going to get my hands on KC & Sunshine Band's Very Best Of -collection asap!

On a personal level, I totally agree-- although don't think I wouldn't do the same thing if Josh Charles was hitting on me. Tact be damned.

But as far as character development goes, it totally makes sense. Dan wants to be liked. He can't stand it when he's not (see: Dan's breakdown/therapy and the whole Rebecca thing.) He loves the fact that millions (okay, thousands) of viewers watch him every night and think he's cooler than Casey (Jeremy's tampering with the voting aside). So that a little sumthin' sumthin' with a pro beach volleyball player breaks his writer's block makes perfect sense to me. And I'm not entirely sure that impressing women isn't motivation on some level for a lot of men, and vice versa.

ETA: I mean this a lot nicer than it sounds! Typing is like that sometimes.

fayzer, I hear ya. I was a little spoiled for Dana's Dating Plan, just from having hung around in the West Wing forums.

I finally watched the second ep of the second season, where Dana has the epiphany, and I have to say: Way worse than I could ever have imagined! Dana's such a freak! I can relate to the words she's saying, but she makes no sense. I can't believe Casey didn't just grab her and kiss her and shake that epiphany right out of her head. Frustration!

Though I have to believe that this was just Sorkin's way of choking on the thought of following through with all the tension that he built up in the first season. He believes he'll make a mess of Casey&Dana if he tries to write them together, so he makes a total mess out of keeping them apart. Frustration!

I always liked that Casey's words (and expressions) matched the viewers during that whole explaination. And later, he says something to Dan about how he has no idea what's going on. PK gives good clueless.