Bumping this up, it was mentioned in the newbie thread.

Hello everyone, just wanted to make a brief little post in the thread and apply for my little badge or shotglass or whatever betokens membership in the club. Do we have a song or a drink of choice? Thought I'd just wave and say hello as after seeing the spoilers(maybe its divine punishment for being a spoilerho) I am thinking I will be spending some quality time over here next season.

What is the purpose of this thread? I don't think I'v ever seen it before, but from the name of it, I think I want to join in....

Basically, we talk about all the things that make us unhappy about the show, and how easily the writers/producers could make us happy if they made a few changes, which they will probably never do because they are so sure they're right (about Lana being the center of the universe, so all of us must/will eventually love her and, even if we don't, most of us aren't their target demographic anyway so who cares, for example), so it's hard not to be bitter.

Although, considering how much overall ratings have dropped, how well can they actually be doing with that target demographic, really?

This thread is also a place to rant about what great potential it had before it became Lanaville. It's wonderful therapy for me.

I like bitterness. Bitterness sprinkled with sarcasm and a dash of hostility. Take away all that and there's nothing left of me but my name. What are YOU lookin' at? Not YOU. Miss Lang, over there. What's HER problem?!

Do you think the show has any chance of reaching its potential? I mean, that's what we all seem to be waiting for. For the writers/producers to have some kind of epiphany about how to make the show great. But we're three seasons in, and the show's still struggling creatively.

I used to think there was little chance the show would try to make changes. Whatever I thought of it, it was still pulling in the ratings, and why would M&G try to fix what wasn't broke, in their opinion? But with the ratings dropping the way they have, maybe someone will finally decide improvements are necessary. Or is that a pipe dream?

I think it gets partially there, then trip and fall. To quote The Boss (no, not Omar) the writers take one step forward and two steps back.



I think that M&G doesn’t realize there’s a problem with the show. They pretty much have show-job security because although the ratings flounder, the WB knows there is a huge following for the show in the fans of Superman and that entire universe. Plus, the difference between Smallville and Angel (because Angel had a Buffy following), Smallville probably costs a bit less shooting in Canada and all. Whereas Angel was shot in Los Angeles. So I don’t think the WB is going to say “This is too cost prohibitive to continue with this show.” The network must have this attitude of “If we write it, they will come.”

But to answer of the show reaching its potential, I’m still holding out hopes. I may be biased, but I think the biggest problem is that the shows focus seems to be more of Clark and Blahna…I mean, Lana. Which they can interject now and again, but to keep doing this dance of all things Clark and Lana is played out. It’s about as played out as the Macarena.

It's painful to watch SV, getting a morsel of what it could be, every so often. And then its right back to suckity Suckville. It leaves one longing. That's why we tune in every damn week, no matter how many promises we make to ourselves.

I've given up hoping SV will reach its potential. At this point I'll be content getting more of Shattered-type stuff. If the last few episodes turn out like that, I'll be happy. But if it turns out to be fluff - esp. Lana fluff - I'll go into S4 wondering why I'm bothering to watch it. Esp. since there won't even be any more Clex. Which makes me very sad.

sevenless: don't yet mourn the passing of the Clex-especially if evilness begins to insue, there could still be all sorts of sparky goodness(e.g Syd/Sark season 2, Irina/Jack, Lilah/Wes, ,or there's always the Spuffy.)- maybe even more so now that they have a past and they'll be a more open nature to the ship. That's why I am telling myself, but then hey, I watch Charmed,so maybe you should not trust me

As for the Potenial Greatness(PG) of the show, Seeing as how amazing most of the cast is, the creators might be coasting. For example, people have said in other threads(and if its any of ya'll clue me in and I'll give you proper credit.) how miserable some of the lines are that Lex has, yet MR always make them shine and glow. AM, as well, can make her character assassination by the writers look all manner of good. Even AOT manages to give her character a massive amount of dignity and presence and a feeling of intellect, despite the fact they have made her a cipher. Thus, you have wicked good people who can notch up anything given them, so it could just make the writers lazy. As for return to greatness or coming greatness, what got me sucked in was the Clex and thats in all manner of danger(I delude myself afterthe spoileryclip for tonight's sode that my ship still floats, but ehh). I believe it could be great, what it needs is some more tight Executive Producing and a deal with the continuity Fairy to have the shows back- I keep thinking the recent NYtimes article about Alias describes what must go with SV-where the writers seems to make stuff up midway through, changing already established storylines just for kicks, and generally hanging onto a cliff by their fingernails. As I've already said, i am in a sick sad relationship with this show and I am with it to the bitter end. And if they give us even the small amount of kickass episodes as we have gotten this season for the next one or two, it could be worth it. Hope springs forever eternal.

When I found myself getting more excited about the storyline on CHARMED than the one on SMALLVILLE, I knew something was out of whack somewhere.

That's part of what's missing. Excitement. I don't feel a sense of excitement over SV. Or mystery either, for that matter. I'm not rubbing my hands together with glee about this or that happening.

Part of it was that there was a big secret on CHARMED this year, and we were just waiting for the characters to find out the truth. They teased us with it a little bit, but not too much. Now, after almost a whole season (from last year's finale to about two weeks ago) the truth is all out, and we're watching to see the consequences.

SMALLVILLE has it's big secret, too. Clark is an alien. And they tease us with someone finding out in every promo, whether its Lex (who will never find out, or will never remember if he does), Chloe (who probably won't find out and, if she does, it'll be later), Lionel (he might find out, but he'll probably die soon afterwards, and they don't want to lose that character this soon), Lana (who probably will find out but, like Chloe, it would be later). In the meantime, plenty of other people have found out, and have either died, or been sent to the nut house.

When they teased that Chloe might find out in "Truth", I felt nothing. I mean, I should have been chomping at the bit, waiting to see if she'd learn Clark's secret. But, after three years, I knew she wouldn't. Clark would be imune to her truth mojo. She'd never make it to the Kent farm. If she did, Clark would stop her before she could question his parents. Even if he didn't stop her, she'd forget whatever she learned because of the Levitas.

It's a pony whose one trick has been played out, but I bet they'll keep hinting at it in seasons to come, and building episodes around it (which they did with "Truth"). And we'll keep caring less and less until, when someone does finally find out, we won't care at all. And, on a show about a teen-aged Superman, someone finding out the truth should be a big deal. But, on SV, it just isn't any more.

I think the major problem with the series is just plain pacing. They'll speed through really interesting stuff like Lex thinking he's a freak and go on and on and on about the Clana "secrets and lies" crap. I think they repeat certain things too much but totally skim on stuff that would totally rock if they fleshed it out.

I think that ideally this should be a 2-3 year show with maybe 18 episodes each year. Just imagine the show minus the filler, minus the Clana pandering, minus a lot of the repetition and there's actually a really interesting show there. Without so much repetition, the learning curve would appear to be a LOT faster and Clark wouldn't look so damn dumb.

I don't think it'll ever be a "great" show per se. It'll just continue to show flashes of what could have been without ever becoming a show where most of the episodes are Lineage, Shattered, Pilot quality . . . .

I'm so bitter that the acting on this show is so damn good. Well, in the case of the Chluthors anyway. (which, to be honest is what I watch for, I'm already bored with the whole "teenege superman" thing. God, that sounds awful, but true nonetheless)
I just keep coming back, but the sprinkling of really good storylines just don't really make up for the high percentage of awful ones IMHO, but I'm so enamored of MR, JG and AM at this point, I can't stop watching.
Bitter, bitter, bitter, that's me. ;-)

My name is Min, and I'm a Charmed-aholic.

Amazed at all the Charmed love, since it is, without a doubt, my greatest guilty pleasure since The Dukes of Hazard. But Charmed has been fun this year...time travel, secret identities, unrequited love, nature-defying hair color, gravity-defying garments. If only it had a villain with Lionel's charm and menace...

I'm not as bitter about Smallville as I was before Truth. But the day is young.

I'm right there with you. I've pretty much been watching this show for Lex for quite a while now. Then Chloe joined the list some time this season. And I always sit up and take notice when Lionel is on the screen. I don't watch for AOT, because she's just not there enough. But I'd love a really good Martha episode. Let's find out she did something scandalous before she met Jonathan. Let's see Lionel try to slither back into her life. Heck, let's see her finally decide to really reach out to Lex, which I thought she would have done long before now.

As for CHARMED, I just realized Grams doesn't know. And Penny! Penny doesn't know! And there's always the chance that evil, hot, Adult!Wyatt will pay a visit! Maybe throw around some more energy balls while flexing those biceps in that tight black t-shirt. (Rubs hands together with more glee.)

I'm trying to think of something I'd anticipate with SV. Clark flying? Maybe Lois showing up?

Yep, that's me in a nutshell too. Not even really AM so much, especially after last week. Just those loveable, lovely, lustful, lonely, lickable Luthors!!!

But it doesn't stop me from being bitter about the rest of the damned show, especially the new-found hate I'm having for the Clark character, when TW was the whole reason I started watching the show. Why would you cast someone so ridiculously hot and then make his character such a complete doofus?

Min, I'm starting to get hooked on Charmed, too. Hell, I'm starting to get hooked on One Tree Hill (gloriously trashy piece of crap that it is.)

That is the question, isn't it? If you were Joss Whedon, or even Aaron Sorkin, I would assume that you had some convoluted, but fascinating character development blueprint in mind, and I would anticipate the day when all was made clear. M&G...I dunno. Clark may not be the only doofus on the field of play.

Lustful Luthors...just the sound of it makes my toes curl and my skirt twirl. (:-)

As far as the WB is concerned, SMALLVILLE is a product. They make money according to how much that product can sell for. And they make more money with a product that gets 7 million viewers than one that get 4 and a half. Even if they've managed to keep most of their "key demographic", losing 2.5 million viewers of any age means they get paid less.

I think the WB is gonna step in. In fact, I'd be surprised if they haven't already. I'm sure they kept mostly hand-off when the show was so far ahead of all other shows on the WB, and they had no reason to fix what wasn't broken. But, as of right now, SMALLVILLE isn't doing all that much better than ANGEL or CHARMED.

Usually, I'm not in favor of networks telling shows what to do. That's what messed up ANGEL this season, in my opinion. But I also bet the network has been keeping track of viewer opinion, and might ask M&G to make changes accordingly. Which might mean less boringly repetative Clana, more Lex, more Superman mythos, etc.

Of course, I also think they were in favor of pushing Lana/KK so hard in the first place, so what do I know?

Word! At least in season 1, Clark was a loveable klutz because of Lana's necklace, and it gave him a reason to spaz out all the time, and was a source of great humor between Chloe and Pete. Now the necklace is gone, along with Clark's brain & ability to reason apparently, so there is no excuse for him being such an asshat. He's like an out-of-control pinball, pinging off of people, yelling - "You betrayed me!!" He's getting more whiney and self-righteous than Lana for cripes sake! I am so full of bitterness - I need a wheelbarrow to carry it!

For real! Wordy Mcword!

I'm totally bitter about the Clark character right now. I think I don't like him at all.
He's way too much of an inconsiderate asshat and it's not getting much better.
I mean, remember when he was being a jerk to Chloe last season and she smacked him down with the whole, "I'm not your personal search engine." or whatever. So, you know.. learn your lesson, asshat. Stop treating Lex like your own personal problem solver.

I'm bitterly appauled by the way he treats his friends.

He DOES say that alot, doesn't he? And everything else you've said is so right, Owzers. Like catpower2000, TW is the whole reason I started watching the show. And, unless his hair gets any shorter, I'll keep watching. But I can't help but be disappointed in his character's whininess. I do kinda like the idea of Clark being the hero baddie, while Lex is the misunderstood good guy. But if that's the direction they're taking things, I hope M&G at least write Clark some good lines. We already have La Nah. I don't want no stinkin' Le Clark.

Now that they've so thoroughly alienated a huge part of their audience, they're never ever going to get them back. People can try to blame it on American Idol, time/day change, sophmore slump all they want but I really wish they had stepped in and gotten back to the core stuff a lot earlier, kinda like the way a whole bunch of us were telling them to back in S2. Once people give up on a show, they usually latch on to something new & don't look back unless their friends tell them it's improved 1000%. Otherwise . . .

A thousand times word, Owzers. Like last night's ep, perfect example. "Doop de doo, I'm the big dumb alien, loping along with all the information that Lex is searching for and will destroy himself for, and I'll never tell, ha ha, and...WAIT A MINUTE. LEX has the nerve to LIE to ME??? HOW DARE YOU, LEX?? HOW DARE YOU??"

*ring ring* "Hello pot? This is kettle. You're black."

Edited to add that I really did love last night's ep, loved TW's acting, and am feeling very little bitterness today. But that scene pissed me off.

Episodes like "Memoria" cause bitterness. Once you see an episode like this, you realize how good the show could be...if they weren't so obsessed with proving Lana is a "lead" in the same league as Lex (which she so clearly isn't) and pushing the relationship that never really was (Clana). The show could be so great if the PTB let it.

Bwahahaha! And WORD to the nth degree. I want to like Clark, but they are making it Very Hard for me to do so. I think I might even hate him now.

I know! I drove my boyfriend crazy while watching "Memoria" because every time Clark came on, he'd do something asshatty, and I'd shriek at the TV - "You Asshole!!!" and punch the arm of the couch. At this rate, I'm gonna need a new couch, and I think I'll send the bill to M&G!

*Edited because my typing speed goes faster than my brain*

I did almost the same exact thing while watching "Memoria", Owzers. While Clark was doing his asshatty behaviour, I was screaming "You f***ing idiot!" at the TV. At one point I threw my Clark action figure at the screen. Usually, the Lana action figure is the one that gets thrown around.

LexClark4ever - I'm going to have to buy a Clark action figure too if the writers keep portraying Clark as such a hypocritical shmuck, that way I can inflict punishment on it instead of my poor couch. I might smear his head with catfood and toss him on the floor for my cats to torture....oh yes, we wants him to suffer precioussssss.

Last night, my Clark action figure (as I already mentioned) got thrown at the screen and bounced off, scaring my cat who was sleeping on top of the digital box. My Clark figure usually spends most of the time cuddling/making out with the Lex figure. My Lana action figure has bounced off of the ceiling, TV set, and the closed window. That figure has been slightly therapeutic. Right now, my Lana figure is imprisoned inside that alien pod that was included with my Agent Scully figure from the X-Files movie.

I know that M&G have to, at some point, get with the canon and rip our boys apart, but you'd think they could do it without making Clark into Assy McAsshat. But, knock on wood, at least they haven't made it over La Nah. Then we would have to murder them and their immediate descendents.

So, ideas for the rift? Mine would be to move the show to HBO. The rest will take care of itself. ;)

CanSpy, I only have three words for you: Queer as Clark.

Delurking to announce that every single time Lana shows up and/or Clark does something stupid I tend to yell and scream and throw random things at the TV---people stay away from me on Wednesday nights. (I think this qualifies as bitterness. Can I join?)

*pats couch*

Have a seat. :)

I can keep the bitterness down to a lowlevel hum (especially if Memoria is as good as it sounds) because the best moments make up for the rest. And I'll always have Shattered.
Unless-Lexana. I can stick them being friends, I can even sort of understand it, but the moment Lex offers Lana a mallet to break down the Wall Around his Pants (™ some clever bugger) my cup of bitterness runneth over and poisons a few local rivers.

Someone somewhere suggested that, instead of subjecting us to Lexana, they are setting Lana up to be the go-between, who sees the Clark/Lex friendship crumbling and, because she is friends to both of them, sees it as her duty to mend it. Which I can actually see if for no other reason than it would give them something to do with Lana besides pine over Clark, or be the next FOTWs target. And they have to keep her involved in the storylines because she is a "lead", after all. And, while watching Lana run around playing peacemaker (I can already see her ringing her hands, trying to find some way to get Clark and Lex to talk) could become very annoying very fast, it would be 1000% more acceptable to be than Lexana.

I heartily concur, Bitterswete and I hope that's the way they go. For our sake and that of the water supply.

I completely have faith in that statement or comment. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go steal a few trucks full of bottled water.

I don't see how Lana's the best for that job, though... I think Chloe would be a muich better rift-mender.

I think that's the point. Lana is going to be utterly freaking ineffective as a rift mender. In fact she might make things a bit worse because she just can't see what's going on because it has nothing to do with her. All she can do is wring her hands, cry her eyes out and wonder what's going on. Maybe once she sees this world-shaking tragedy hit two important people in her life, maybe she'll finally get it through her head that bad crap happens to other people and not just her.

Yay! It's official.
The Rift is all Blana's fault.

I've been having a lot of trouble remembering who is supposed to be evil, Lex or Clark. I think the rift will happen when Lex finds out for sure that Clark is an alien and realizes that he needs to save the world from the Invasion of the Self-Righteous Prigs. Go Lex!

I'm wondering how much effect you guys think fan reaction had on season 3. And I have two reasons for asking.

At the end of season 2, when the producers started talking about what season 3 would be like, they said Clark and Lex would have very little interaction this year. They'd drift apart until they were no longer nearly friends (or enemies) but more like acquaintances. They'd be into their own lives, and not be very involved with each others.

And, say what you will about the deterioration of that friendship, they have definately been "involved" all season. And could this be because the fans made such a fuss about how the Clark/Lex relationship was the best part of the show, and making them just "drift apart" (the friendship ending with a whimper rather than a bang) was a waste?

Also, I'm pretty convinced that, when they ended last season, they fully intended to come back with Chloe working for Lionel quite willingly, and very much in "evil teen vamp", "woman scorned" mode. (The way they dressed her in that last scene with Lionel screamed it from the highest hill.) But, again, fans made a fuss. And, when the season starts, they quickly make it clear, while Chloe was technically working for Lionel, she wasn't really, and was still trying to protect Clark, despite being mad at him as season 2 ended.

So, do you think fans influenced these things? And, if so, if we really let them know how we really, really feel about Lexana...

Wishful thinking, huh? After all, they must have known how a lot of us felt about Clana, but they still hit us over the head with that as often as they can. (Even though, recently, not so much. Hmmmmmm.)

If they really gave a flying rat's patoot what we thought they would do what Xena did and make the Clex semi-textual, with constant nods to the HoYay.

Edited to remark that they clearly do not give a flying rat's patoot what we think on this most dear to my heart of all subjects, and therefore, I am deeply embittered.

I think the quote was that Clark and Lex would "no longer be aligned", which I think is mostly true aside from Shattered/Asylum.

I think they're insanely stupid to break up the Clark and Lex friendship.

No, seriously.

I think if they were to keep them friends and then, after the show runs its course, keep publishing the Smallville comics, it could be an alternate universe to the main Supes canon and they could reiterate everything that's happened from the inside out. It would be really interesting to see how everything would be different if Lex were Clark's best friend instead of his best enemy, and I think it would breathe new life into the DCU and generate new interest in it and that they would make a lot of money.

But the thing is, they won't grow a set and do anything original, because they feel like they have "done everything" already and think that if they do anything new and different they will alienate the fans, who in reality are either semi-obsessive-compulsive about reading the same story over and over again, or have grown bored of it anyway. Classic comics suck these days.

Really? I've been thinking of how much Clex we've actually gotten. We got the hug from phoenix. A couple of scenes in Extinction with Clark trying to protect Lex from getting shot. The dream sequence from Slumber. Then a huge dry spell. Shattered and Asylum did make up for that somewhat, but now the season is nearly over and it's hard to think if there even has been much Clex since Asylum. There was Clark stealing Lex's car in Velocity. One scene in the barn in Whisper. Crisis and Memoria had a few decent Clex scenes, but otherwise?

If they want to have a rift, fine. Make Clark and Lex hate one another, give us passion. Don't give me indifference and deny me seing them on screen together at all. Was Smallville not promoted as the story of Clark and Lex and their friendship?

I wouldn't mind so much, but they find time to show us the same Clana ending nearly every week with their conversations going round in circles. And they couldn't find time to give us the occasional friendship scene with Clark and Lex hanging out, watching DVDs or playing pool?

And they have the nerve to say they realise the audience are sick of the Clana loft scenes. But instead of replacing them with oh I don't don't know Clex loft scenes, which no one has ever said they are sick of, they give us Clana scenes in The Talon instead and think the audience are so dumb they will swallow it.

Don't even get me started on Clarks recent abuse of Lex.

I am deeply bitter, because after sitting through Sunday's Charmed and noticing they take every chance to tart up the female lead (poor Phoebe), that they rarely do anything half as fun for SV(please not to the gals). I think there should be equal opportunity exploitation and what we got in Memoria does not cut it(because it's just not attractive to put a man in that state of undress wearing those clothes) I want all leather Lex, please. Or maybe a P&P2 type scene-involving lakes. Also seconds on all the Clexy scenes. Yes, it's doomed, but I think it could be good (like Spike/Buffy or Sark/Sydney) even when it goes bad. & yes, I possess unexplored depths of shallow:-).

It was. And I believe that’s how it was sold to Michael and Tom. I’ve read numerous interviews where they both say the important storyline in their eyes and Clark and Lex’s relationship. Unfortunately in true WB fashion, that has been pushed aside for the “Will-They-Or-Won’t-They” drabness that is Clark and Lana.

Last season there was a huge billboard where my mom lives for Smallville and was Lex in that billboard? Nope. Just Clark and Lana-and that is so not what Smallville is supposed to be about.



I have seen very little of Season 1, since I didn’t start watching Smallville until towards the end of Season 2, so I’ve been going on faith that Clark and Lex are indeed friends. From what I’ve seen on the show, they’re just friends, not the best friends that fanon or the show suggests.



I don’t know why that is. I’ve read Omar’s interview with Al Gough and he does seem focused on how important Lana is to Clark. He must be the only one who sees it, because I surely don’t. She’s a source of misery for Clark-he always second and third guess himself because of her and why he hasn’t gotten tired of her jerking his chain escapes me.

Since they're going to rift soon, is it really so much that you concentrate on how much emotional pain & crap the RIFT causes our two male protaganists?

I mean I find Jack Bristow & Sloane interactions fun to watch with all its familiarity, intimacy & icy menace. They have a history, things in common and I could watch an entire hour of that stuff.

Frelling Tralk said:

It was, but in season two we got the bait and switch, and it stopped being about that and became All. About. The. Lana. Oh, on the surface it's still about the beginnings of Clark and Lex, but with the two men's paths being portrayed separately, parallel, but rarely intersecting. Personally, I viewed Shattered as an AU - an attempt by Ken Biller to resurrect the long-dead original premise of the series because, really, the relationship portrayed in that episode comes out of virtually nowhere and is not canonically consistent with most of what comes before it. It's the stuff of fan fiction, but has not been the stuff of canon for a long time, if ever. Then in Asylum the writers (blanking on who, doesn't really matter, it wasn't Biller) were forced by virtue of Biller's script to have to follow up on that story line - though, naturally (and unlike Shattered), much Lana and her petty, boring melodrama was forced into that story line too as a reminder of who the series has really been about for over a year. Then after that we went back to indifferent basics; and in Memoria, it's been the stuff of debate as to whether Clark's actions are more to protect himself than Lex, for obvious reasons.

Whenever I see fans describe Lex and Clark as "best friends", I have to shake my head because I don't see where Clark has ever viewed Lex as his best friend. At times Pete was portrayed in that role - before KK was given all SJIII's screen time this year. But if anything, and especially since season two, we've had so much Clana forced down our throats that there is no doubt in my mind that Clark views Lana as his best friend if for no other reason than she's the one he wants to pork, badly, and in his BDA and teenage mind, that superficially equates to being his best friend. After all, in the season two finale we have the ship showing Clark - and the viewing audience - who the only three people Clark gives a shit about which are Ma, Bo, and Lana; and not even Pete or Chloe get to make an appearance in that scenario, much less Lex.

And for Lex, it's not so much that Clark is his best friend as much as it seems that Clark has been his only friend in Smallville since the series began. But in that case, yeah, I can see where Clark being Lex's only friend would automatically count him as Lex's best friend too. But the feeling has never really been mutual, much less consistent.

So I've long, LONG since given up on caring about whether or not Clark and Lex "rift" because I see nothing to rift, in reality. Therefore, I'd rather have animosity, even hate between the guys because at least that would be, as you pointed out, passionate and interesting. Indifference isn't interesting.