StinkyEarl, do you live near me?! Only you have left out the illegal Mexican nannies in tow...

After watching Stacy's performance yesterday, I decided that the next time I get into trouble for something, I will start crying, dabbing my eyes with a tissue, and say to the person "I guess I just sensed that you would be the one with the strength to stand up to me, who would not let me get away with my self destructive behaviors, because I have never had anyone to trust, that's why I did what I did and now I can move forward." YUCK.

Yes, Brianne should know her mother. Should a 14 year old be told about her mother's horrible secrets while on television? Somehow I doubt this.

Phil mentioned several times yesterday about the goodies that they would be getting if they continued on his show. Call me cynical, but I think that Stacy's new attitude has to be about the goodies she was promised off-camera. Maybe she's going to the Bahamas to study marine biology?

If Stacy goes to the Bahamas, she'll come back with another fetus surprise.

You are completely correct. Stacy's tune changed once she heard Shill say "vacation". Stacy is an intelligent, manipulative woman. She will tell Shill and Co. what they need and want to hear in order to cash in.

Yep...How did you know? I live, ummmm...., in a very warm place with abundant palm trees. :0 Thinking about moving to Idaho.

I missed the FUF update because of the 911 hearings. Haven't seen it yet. But I do know this: Stacey is one ugly 'ho when she cries. I don't see how she is able to turn on the tear ducts and convince anyone to do anything (except slap her). She's got a face that would snag light'nin. Looks even worse when droopy, contorted, and soaking wet with mascara running. Yikes.

Forgot to mention...The Dr. Shrill (I hate his voice) insanity is speading like deadly bacteria.

I was in a jewelry store yesterday, and a brainless baby factory (BBF) came in with Bratley and Bratney in tow, along with their little grandma. The 10-yr-old twin bad seeds ran through the store scraming "Grammy, I want this...I want this..Get me this NOW. I want it NOW."

The BBF ignored her bad seeds as they tore the store (and my nerves) totally apart while she was browsing. But then, she suddenly came alive when she overheard the clerk say something about "owning it" to another person in the store. That's all it took to wake BBF up.

The BBF suddendly joined the land of the living, became animated like a true Stepford wife, and said: "That's what Dr. Phil always says, First, You have to own it....and I agree...I happen to own five of those in different colors. hahaha. "

I felt like puking five different colors of rage. I am tired of these twits acting like Dr. Shrill is their gu-ru. It's a sickness. And it spreads. Yep, Idaho looks better & better....

I generally can't focus on her face because I'm too preoccupied with her pea head sitting on that thick neck. Her neck is seriously distracting to me.

I, frankly, was surprised during the smackdown (sidenote: how many of you about fell off your chairs laughing when Dr.Shill said, "I don't do this for the thanks"? Yeah, me too.) when he told her that if the didn't continue on the show they'd still get the Happy Place and the financial planner and the therapy whatever .... I thought she'd bolt from him in a heartbeat if she knew she still got the goods.

Fangums...yes! OMG! The neck. The pea-head. Yes, yes. That too. I couldn't figure it out until you said it. She's a freaking trian wreck. Must have good teeth. That's the only thing I can figure....the way she gets men to beat down her door to bed her.

LMAO about today's show. The BBF who has triplets and another baby...what an idiot. I DO NOT feel sorry for that brainless twit. Sew your womb shut, idiot wimp! Stop having s-e-x. Use birth control. Above all else, stop your damn complaining! Stop pushing out pups by the shit load. We are already overpopulated with undisciplined brats!!!

I can tell you one damn thing...I wouldn't want someone like that stupid ass taking care of me in the hospital, that's for sure. OMG! She's a nurse?

Hmmm.....42 hours without sleep, and only takes a bath every other day?? Frying pans in the fridge? "How about a little potassium chloride in your IV line instead of sodium chloride (saline)? Whoopsie! Sorry for killing your ass but I'm just so tired."

People like her need their damn heads lopped off.

Please don't feel sorry for that twit. REBEL! Advocate for responsible egg useage, not pity and counseling after the fact. I think she likes being the martyr...the poor little worn out mama cow. "Will it ever get better". Hell no stupid.

I want to take her to court and get custody of her five cats. She's unfit. Gimme those damn cats, right now.

No shit, Sherlock! This woman is a malpractice lawsuit waiting to happen. And I'm sorry, I expect a nurse who waits on me to be clean. The only time I have gone more than 24-36 hours without showering and shampooing has been when I am sick; and even then, I try to drag my green-faced ass into the tub because bathing usually makes me feel better.

What about their marriage? Call me The Childfree Bitch, but it MUST be suffering. I know quite a few couples with kids who have terrific relationships with their spouses (namely my closest high school friend and her husband), but I can't understand how anyone could handle being that overwhelmed and alienated from their spouse.

The nurse with the triplets and the other child (4 boys under age 2) was insane! Call me crazy, but after giving birth to my darling triplets, the doctor would have orders to give me a tubal. The way I understood it, she works 3 days every 2 weeks - 24 hours at a time - at 2 different hospitals which definitely is a malpractice suit waiting to happen - and I've worked for law firms that did strictly med mal and they'd have a field day with that. Not to mention I'd really want her caring for my NICU baby. Of course, NICU babies can't complain about their care or lack thereof or testify in med mal cases, but now they can just request a copy of the Dr. Phil Show where she discussed being so out of it she put milk in the cabinet and the frying pan in the fridge and cat food in the litter box.

Being single and not having kids, I may not have the best grasp on this, but when I see a couple where both of them are working and have decent jobs and there's all this chaos/conflict about housework, etc., I always wonder why they don't get someone in to help with the housework once a week or a couple of times a month. Seems like the sanity would be worth it.

EXCUSE ME, NURSE RATCHET, WOULD YOU LIKE SOME CHEESE TO GO WITH YOUR WHINE?

I HATE mothers who birth litters of pups and then cry about how hard it is.
I think they enjoy getting the "pats on the back" and attention they get from whinning about their chilllldrrunnnn to whoever will lend an ear. Their guru...Dr. Shrill....enables them with the "payoff" by offering an overworked mother of the year award on national TV? WTF?

The "payoff"...would have to be huge to cause ME to ruin my life through such indescriminate reproduction. My sister-in-law is a nurse and has three bratleys...two of whom are nine months apart. They are total brats. She pops pills, zones out on the sofa, and lets them raise themselves, while she whines about how haaaarrrdddd it is. I agree. Yes...It's hard getting through life when you're so damn stupid.

I want those 5 cats, dammit. Forget the brats. Whose tending the cats? :0

She never mentioned that she was doing invitro or taking clomid, so her brith of triplets could have been totally natural, there's no way for us to know. And even if she did have triplets due to infirtility treatment, it doens't mean she was irresponsible, it means she was longing to have a child. As a woman, I really understand the deep desire to have a child. Having too many kids wasn't really the root of her problem. She was working too much and didn't seem to be getting any help or support from family, either her husband or her parents, etc. Having three or four kids- and there was no way to tell if they were brats or not from the footage- does not make her a bad person.

Word. As I learned from having only 1 child, new mothers need help! When I decide to have another one, I will hire someone to help me.

You guys are awesome, I love all the different opinions in here! For the first time, I babysat my best friend's 1 month old son all afternoon, over night and most of the day. All I had done before that was chip in with caring for my niece when she was born. I know now why new mothers are really really tired all the time. And this is with a healthy child with only minor feeding reflux problems. I have a lot of respect for mothers and even though I did fine, it woke me up that I had him for one day and mothers have their kids every day, day after day. I remember thinking wow, thank Jeebus I didn't have sex. So kudos to all you mothers out there! I don't know how my mom raised four kids, let alone one, and decently too!

It does kind of irritate me when fertility drug takers whine about having so many children. The risks of multiple births are well known and documented and even though I know wanting a child can be painful when you don't have one, don't complain when the expected actually happens. Triplets aren't all that rare without fertitlity drugs so I'll give that lady the benefit of the doubt since it was never said what she used. Still, she did decide to have sex at some point so...meh.

PissyMissy, I'm a woman too, and I don't understand the deep desire to have a child. I don't understand the psychology behind IVF-induced multiple births, either. I'm not talking about triplets here; of course, that can happen naturally or chemically. I cannot and will not understand those who have sextuplets, septuplets, whatevertuplets, and refuse to opt for selective reduction of the embryos. These poor children are born with terrible birth defects, spend the first year of their life on respirators, run up medical bills into the millions (that are eventually paid by other insureds through higher premiums), and cannot be adequately provided for by their parents (as witnessed by any number of beg sites for these poor children on the Internet). I cannot see how wantonly subjecting an innocent life to birth defects and horrible maladies is doing "God's will" or however it is usually justified. To me, that is the very height of inhumanity and cruelty and should not be celebrated. Yet every single time a litter (I hate to use that word, but it applies) of these unfortunate souls is born, there's media hoopla, celebrations all around, and marvels at the "miracle." To my mind, it isn't a miracle. It's irresponsibility in the extreme and should be stopped.

Woman does not equal Mother.

I'd be interested to hear perspectives as to why the mothers of today feel as though they cannot cope with the realities of raising their own children without some sort of help, especially SAHMs. Even working mothers, though: my mom worked, she raised three kids without the assistance of anyone else but my dad, and she managed to keep a spotless house, a stocked refrigerator, and a showered body while doing it. We never ate fast food, either. This was in the 80s. What, if anything, has changed?

(I have my own theory as to what has changed; I think it's that attachment parenting nonsense that has mothers so stressed and out of time. I have studied attachment parenting extensively and am the sister of a childhood development specialist who argues strongly against that philosophy and practice. The popular media and society at large now makes a mother feel guilty if she doesn't spend every single waking minute in servitude to The Child...and then the mother doesn't even sleep by herself! Shill kind of vacilitates between advocating this parenting style and not advocating it.)

maggiegault, that's an interesting theory but I'm not sure that's the answer. I used to take a mom/child class with my little guy and some of the other moms in the class were SAHMs like me and a few of them actually put their kids in day care just so they would have more "down time". The first time one of them said it I thought "Wow, really?" and assumed everyone else would be suprised. But everyone else seemed to think it was pretty ok. (Odd to me, I mean geez, you're a SAHM, your kids are your job!) I don't think these are moms who are suffering from over-attachment.

My mom worked on and off when my brother and I were kids and I was never in day care and she kept a spotless house (too spotless in fact, the woman is anal), always had dinner made, spent a ton of time with us kids and managed to get a four year degree going to school part time. Frankly, this boggles my mind. I don't know how she did it. I have one son but my house is never as clean as hers was, and my husband sometimes has to make dinner when he comes home from work. Do you suppose any generation thinks they measure up to the generation before them? I'm not talking about their mother specifially, but the entire generation. Do you think anyone of us could live the way women did 100 years ago? How the hell did they do it? That really boggles my mind!

RE miracle litters: What was the name of that family that had the seven or eight kids? McCoghnhays? Something like that? Anyway, I remember the dad saying in on interview how hard it was to feed all the kids in the morning because all the cereal would end up on the floor so they finally started just dumping the cereal on the floor to start with. That way, he said, the kids could just dig in. Buddy, if you can't treat your kids like people and not animals maybe you shouldn't be having a litter of them. Miracle my ass.

My mother raised three kids, single parent home, and didn't have any help. She never cried about it. She didn't have time. She planned on always being a SAHM, but she said she knew when she had kids there was a possibility that my father wouldn't be there to finish raising us. She was willing to take the chance. When he wasn't there to finish raising us, she did it alone, and did a great job providing. She says mothers don't need help unless they are weak minded women. I think she's right. It's our modern society that has convinced women to whine and bitch and moan about being overwhelmed by "the kids". Give me a damn break. At least we have birth control, daycare, and baby sitters. Our grandmothers didn't. Poor things. Most of them had wombs that were worn out and sagging by the time they were 25.

I have one child. I didn't need help, because I wasn't dumb enough to get knocked up again and overwhelm myself beyond what I could handle. That's called using your brain, which is what I meant by brainless baby factories.
This doesn't apply to women who choose to have many children and do a great job and NEVER COMPLAIN about it. Those women are terrific....just RARE. I only know one whose done it successfully.

One was enough for me. Some women don't want any, and that's smart too. Nothing dumb about not wanting kids. The only thing dumb is burying yourself in dirty diapers if you can't handle the responsibility without "help". Listen people, there is NO EXCUSE for getting knocked up with more kids than you can cope with in this day and time. None. I don't care if it's a miracle or I.F., you better be ready for the consequences of sperm meeting up with egg(s).
Assume NOBODY will be there to help, (including husbands or boyfriends)
and you will do fine.

So let's say she had triplets naturally. I doubt it, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt. What's her excuse for brat #4? NO BIRTH CONTROL. That's why she has another one to worry about/drive her crazy. CHOOSE: career or brats. If you do both, don't complain or whine about it. It drives the real mothers and the unconvinced childfree up the wall.

"Miracle my ass."

AMEN.

ADOPT, people. ADOPT. ADOPT. Quit being selfish pigs and ADOPT if you can't have kids without extreme measures, drugs and test tubes. Well, on second thought...if you're that self-absorbed, don't adopt. The kid deserves better than that. Adoption is for the self-less, not the self-ish.

It was simple. I could tell they were brats by:

1. the look on their mother's face

2. the way the father avoids dealing with them at all costs.

3. Plus the fact she's nominated herself for most stressed out/overworked/overscheduled/overdramatic mother of the year award tends to indicate that the brats are ruling the household and making her life a living hell.

I think that there are numerous reasons why women seem to be so stressed about their roles as mothers: divorce, remarriage and blended families, long commute times, schools setting higher educational standards, schools not allowing for normal childhood behavior, and feeling like a failure if you are not a perfect family like the one showed on TV.

However, I really feel that most of the problems that people may have with being parents are minor. Most people do just fine by their kids, however clean the house is, however many Big Macs they have in the back of the car. Showing average people who do not have huge real or imagined problems would not be good TV, which is why Phil shows FUF 1 & 2, the bully girl, the overscheduled moms, and the war of SAHM's vs. Working Mothers.

"AP" is so goofy! I don't think even primitive women "co-slept" with their kids. Don't get me started on kids in the delivery room....

The issue seems to be delegation. Relinquish some control, ladies! I really liked the first guest, because she was there to get some help, some advice. She seemed willing to change, but it will be so tough-she is such a natural busybody. I look forward to her update. Loved her mom, too! NO way was she going to spend her whole retirement in that whilrwind! Grandkids or no-she was out for some well-deserved r-n-r!

Nurse mom scared the dickens out of me- remember she's out there driving, sleep deprived, to and from work and Lord knows how many errands. She is a big accident waiting to happen, or, as noted upthread, a malpractice suit.

DP is nutty, but I like it when he asks guests like these "So, does it feel good being the martyr?" It is EXACTLY what these people really need to hear. They are probably used to hearing "I don't know how you do it" and think it's a compliment.

StinkyEarl is out of control and I'm enjoying it immensely!

Oprah started all this. She has a show about the poor over worked mom about once a week and DP has just followed her lead. What a great way to pander to the fan base! Oprah had Naomi Wolfe on a few months ago and together they "broke the wall of silence" about how tough raising kids could be. Yeah right. Like Erma Bombeck wasn't writing columns about those awful, everybody has the flu, times of chaos and mess way back in the 50's. Only thing was, Erma had a sense of humor about it.

Phil irritates me no end, with his constant references to the great nurturing female instincts that men will never understand. Dr Spock once said that after his first book in the 1940's he received mail from young women saying how bad that made them feel - how they couldn't tell what was wrong with their baby just by the sound of it's cry and they didn't feel great love for their baby from the very first moment. Some did, but others didn't and that lack of "instinct", real or imagined, didn't make them bad mothers. Likewise, not all women have an overwhelming hunger to give birth to a child. Some are happy to forgo child rearing all together and others don't have to deliver a baby from their own body before they can love it.

Dr Spock wrote a fine article in Redbook about all this in the 1970's, apologizing for his patronizing talk about maternal instincts. Pay attention Dr Phil.

Boy this post makes me sound old.

Of the friends I have with kids, the most well-behaved one is an adorable four-year-old to whom I once witnessed my friend politely say "Sweetheart, even if [masked_spangler] wasn't here right now, I wouldn't be playing with you, so you need to go find something to do." And the kid did. And she was fine. And we let her play with her dolls for an hour by herself, then we went upstairs and got her and took her out for ice cream. And everyone had a lovely day. I see nothing at all wrong with kids understanding that their parents love them and care for them, but also have their own lives too, and that sometimes you need to just entertain yourself for an hour or two so Mom can do something else.

Sorry Maggiegualt, I didn't mean to imply that woman=mother. What I meant is that a tired woman with more than one child does not equal brainless baby factory. I'm not a believer in rabbit-babies either, that's why I'd never do IVF.

StinkyEarl, who are all these women that you know that have soooo many kids? Most folks I know have two and only one couple of our aquaintence has two with one on the way, and she doesn't complain a bit.

I have my own theory about the complaining. Its a two part theory:
A) I blame new mama bitching on the La Leche League. Oh sure its supposed to be supportive, but this breast feeding cult is scary, scary, scary. Lets all burn incence and chant together; "Breast is best, breast is best, breast is best" scuse me while I yack. Really, these women get togther, identify themselves as "mommies" and glorify FEEDING their kids! Feeding them! Like everyone else hasn't been able to feed their children just a sucessfully over the last couple of million years! Its not really the Lecheites themselves, but among younger SAHMs there's this creepy culture of self-definition as a mother and nothing more. That drives many moms I know to feelings of inadequacy being surrounded by moms who talk about being a mommy all the time. It leaves little room for self-development as a woman and a wife/partner (if they are one).
B) Guilt over not working outside the home. I grew up in the '80s, knowing I had the hard work of feminists of the previous generation to thank for my opportunities to work in the corporate world. I, and my peers, grew up expecting to go to college and begin 'real' careers, earning significant money and being able to stand on our own two feet. Many of my peers have abdicated from the coporate world to stay at home and raise kids, but the feel like they constantly have to justify to other women, and to their partners, that they are really working, and that its hard work, every bit as hard as working for money. So they fill thier time with developing their kids; taking them to gymnastics, soccer, hockey, ice skating, swimmng, boy or girl scouts, and exhausting their children with all this damn development.
You just can't win. Working and having kids is a hard road. The Leche-ites and thier sisters in various mommy support groups will look askance at you for not loving your kids enough to stay home with them. You stay home and people wonder why you're taking your 'job' so seriously and making sure every understands how legitimate and exhausting it really is. No matter what decisions they make, women are judged by each other and by men.

oh, ITA about the attached parenting thing. In the middle ages parents didn't even see thier kids for several months after birth and they were certian to survive. Henry VIII still turned out ok, though.

Also, today's kids are far more active and self aware. When I was a child, I was content to sit with my mother for hours on end while she was doing other things. My son is a freakin' whirlwind of activity and constantly demanding attention. I remember thinking "Thank you, Jesus!" when he was enrolled in all-day kindergarden.

I quit my job to have him and now I work from home. His "Mommy, Mommy, Mommy!" for up to 10 hours a day was wearing me down. My mother marvels about how energetic he is. She said that if I was like that, she wouldn't have worked 2 jobs!

The mom! Loved her, also! And the best part is that she wasn't apologetic about it. I make it a practice to just *enjoy* my grandchildren, however, once in awhile, I'm asked to care for them. That's ok and I'll do it. The last time I was asked, the li'l darling was brought over with the worst cold; sneezing, nose drool, the package. It's been 10 days and I'm still sick as a dog. Lost a full week of work and resented every minute of it.

I only watched the first 20 minutes of Friday's show. I'm getting really bored with these mommies-on-the-edge programs.

Hexele:

Thank you... it was one of my rare moments of Philclarity.

PissyMissy:


Heh, I think Anne Boleyn and Kathryn Howard would beg to differ.

I had sympathy for the first mom but the second one just scared me (plus her voice really irritates me). I had to look away from the screen because I was getting so nervous just watching her and her kids. You know what lady? If you're so tired and your job is too stressful, find a new one. My job caused me health issues (acid reflux, heart trouble, high blood pressure) and I quit.

I wonder if the third mom (the one losing hair) has had bloodwork done to make sure she's not out of whack. There are a lot of conditions that cause hairloss and sadly, doctors tend to miss them (PCOS, Cushing's, etc.)

I was surprised to hear DP discuss the "supermom" phenomenom. It's been the only show I've seen where he addressed the problems with trying to be a perfect mom and perfect careerwoman. Men are usually not expected to take care of the entire household and work obscene hours outside of the home, why should women? I think she should grab onto every offer of help her husband gives.

I think she needs FlyLady too. Thank you, marillion. Love, brand-spank-me-new FlyBaby

Amen! I just wonder if these people think before they keep birthing babies. Its common sense, if one is wearing you out, then two is going to be twice as hard. And for the life of me, I am amazed when someone will have multiples, and then go and have another child! I am trying my darndest not to sit here and judge, but why? And don't they think that the other child is going to have a complex from being ignored while strangers and family fawn all over the multiples? Now I know the McCaughleys (sp?) had their first child before the sextuplets, so this does not really apply, but I always feel sorry for her.

I know that I have all these parenting ideas that will go out the window once Lil Borokat makes his appearance, but even though I will be a SAHM, little pumpkin will be going to daycare, and my house will stay clean. Because if you want to see a grumpy Borokat, show her a messy, cluttered house. And none of this co-sleeping (if ever there was a yuppie bullshit name). Mr. B. and I are going to need our alone time and plus, I have night terrors. I know that I would squish him.

Oh, and Monday's ep is looking like a DOOZY! I expect to see everyone here Monday afternoon. Check out drphil.com for the sypnopsis.

I'm the odd one out. I do /co-sleep/sleep share/trendy name here/ with my newborn (either in bed with me or next to the bed, within arms reach, in her co-sleeper). She will sleep in her crib, bassinet, and pack-and-play, but I feel much more secure when she is sleeping near me. Maybe it's because I am a new mother and had no prior experience with babies? However, I don't want her in bed with me forever.

Monday - Rich Kids! Ohhhh...

I don't think having your newborn sleep in the bed with you is the same as having older children sleep in your bed every night. BTW, congrats on the new addition, DrCher.

I knew a woman who shared a bed with her parents into her 20s. I try not be judgmental (ahem!) but that was just weird to me.

Dr.Cher, the greatest thing about this website is how we don't judge each other (just those nitwits that appear on the show :) )- so if sleeping with BabyCher works for you, then I am happy. But- the one thing I thought I would tell you is that my friends who had their newborns sleeping in the bed with them found it impossible to get them to eventually sleep in their crib. In fact, my cousin's 3 year old still sleeps with them! Yikes!

PS- Lil Borokat is going to sleep in a bassinet by our bed for the first few months, though. Mainly because we have a split bedroom house and the master bedroom is on one side and the nusery is on the other.

You're not the only one DrCher. When TOMH Jr was an infant he would always wake up at 4 AM for a bottle and after that I would bring him into bed to snooze until 8 or so. Those hours with him sleeping next to me were honestly some of the best sleep I have ever gotten in my life. It must be something about the soothing baby snores. Plus, there was nothing like waking up to those big brown eyes watching me. Ohhh, I think I'm making myself ovulate!

TOMH Jr is 3 (and a half!) now and he has his own bed that he goes to sleep in every night. Most nights at about 4 AM he still manages to make his way to our bed though. I used to worry about it but now I figure, eh, he's not gonna want to do it when he's 15 so what's the big deal if he does it now. In the big picture, 3 (and a half!) is still a baby. We all sleep easy, there's no fighting and everyones happy.

I never thought we would be a co-sleeping family (I'm not sure that we actually are) but sometimes you just have to go with the flow and do what works with your kids.

I guess one of my biggest concern about cosleeping (and maybe some of you can help me out on this) is that how do you and your significant others still schedule time for the nookie? TMI, I know, but Mr.B. and I will usually settle into bed at night, and snuggle while we watch the Daily Show- one thing leads to another, and well, I guess that is why there is a Lil Borokat on the way! Doesn't cosleeping take away the few precious moments of alone time that you and your spouse have after the baby is here?

Lil' Borokat can easily go into his/her crib or bassinet if asleep and you and MrB can 'snuggle'.

Same for us, TOMH Jr could always be slipped back into bed. I've always wondered though about those parents who use a "family bed" and that's it. There is no other bed for the kids to go into because everyone sleeps in the same fricken place!

The first mom from the Fix My Mom show (sorry I'm behind, still unpacking) is evil, just plain evil. Making snide remarks about her daughter's weight and threatening to call CPS? The daughter needs to get the hell away and start supporting herself. BTW, I laughed when they showed footage of full bookshelves during the "calling CPS" voiceover. "You've got to come right away! They have BOOKS in the house!" What is this, Fahrenheit 451?

"Oh, I was at the altar 8 times, but that one time didn't count because I had it annulled!" Delusional.

Maybe she and Omarosa are sisters separated from birth.

I'm so confused.

Care to elaborate so we can help clear it up for you?

Confused at how the same kid was both a boy and a girl.

Don't talk about the boards on the boards, please. -- Sars

No apologies necessary, sugar. We're cool.

Just got back from the nail salon, where a woman who HAD to be an attachment parenting type was getting a manicure. Rather, she was attempting to. She had a four-year-old son named Jacob who insisted on sitting on her lap the entire time. Being a four-year-old, he wriggled and wiggled the entire time, whining all the while about how "This is boooooooorrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnng! Can we go now, Mom?" I agree with him; I'm a slave to my gel overlays and I get bored at the salon, too.

The child managed to annoy the owner of the salon, who is Vietnamese and is very strict with adult children (who all work in the salon). He was annoyed because her manicurist couldn't do her job, and there were men and women both who were there to relax.

Her manicure somehow was completed, but Jacob smeared her entire left hand's worth of nails clamoring to get on mom's lap again. The manicurist had to stop with another client and fix the mother's nails. Jacob then ran around the salon screaming that he "di'int wanna wait! wanna go home now!" Can't blame the kid, little boys aren't built for nail salons, as a general rule.

Don, the owner, spoke with the woman before she left. "You are welcome to return to the salon," he said. "I cannot serve you, however, if you have your child with you."

Righteous indignance. "That's my CHILD you are talking about," she huffed. "There is nothing wrong with a little boy wanting to sit on his mommy's lap. It's bonding, and you act like that's a crime! I'll go where I want, when I want, with my child if I want!"

Jacob was tugging at mommy's pant leg by now, "Let's go, let's go, let's go." So they left.

Only to return not three minutes later. Mom had smeared the entire hand of nails on the right side, this time, while getting into the car.

ETA to add:



I'm childfree, I ain't got none of my own, and I'm talking out my ass...wanted to be perfectly clear on that one. Kind of like a tone deaf person trying to teach an opera star how to properly sing a libretto. That being said, DrCher, that is so not the same thing. There is a world of difference between a baby in the bed (don't most babies wind up in the parents' bed at some point anyway?) and having your four kids, ages 5, 3, 2, and 6 mos., all crowding together with you and your spouse. And yes, I know of people who do this. And yes, it's not the shiny happy event AP proponents would have you believe. And I'll pull absolutely NO punches here: it's usually the father of the family that hates the co-sleeping practice (when there are older kids, and multiple kids, that is).

Your situation is totally different, and I hope I didn't sound like a judgmental bitch to you (well, more so than usual, that is!).

Hey look, just get out there and you will see them. I get out everyday, and OMG...They're everywhere.... Grocery stores. R-rated movies. Sports Bars. 4-star Restaurants. Business meetings. You can't escape from Bratley and Bratney.

Wherever you go, you'll see her: BBF with "family" in tow, making everyone else's life damn miserable because she didn't think [pre-pregnancy] "hmmm...can I, like, really, like, cope with, like, more than one (or two) kids?"

Answer was NO, by the way.

I have some friends who have three or more kids. Some who have one or two. Some who have none, and vow never to have any (because they see bad seed spread across the country and it scares the hell out of them).

The person I was actually referring to who has a bunch of kids and who also does a great job happens to have six children. She home-school's all of them, and they are all very well-behaved. I never dread going over, because those kids are a joy to be around. There's always something going on at that house when I go over, but nothing bad. No bratty behavior. They are hilarious. They get into trouble, but when they do, they don't mouth off to their mother or to anyone else. Their dad is a military officer. He is strict. But it's the mom who sets the tone for the home. She's the one whose there, day-in, day-out.

A strong mother is a beautiful thing. A whiny, wimpy, weak-minded baby factory is a scourge on our society and should be flogged in public. I hate cry-babies.

PS....My other sister-in-law has three kids. She let that "sleep in my bed" crap go on with her youngest (i.e., the baby). And YOU KNOW WHAT? He is now nine years old and has his own bed next to her's in the master bedroom. She has a gigantic sleigh bed, and he has a matching itty-bitty-twin-sized-baby-bear bed next to hers. Matching comforters. After all, we want it all to match. Right? INSANE. SICK.

Now that he's older, he can't have friends over, because they will see baby bear's bed next to mama bear's bed, and do what any normal kid would: GO TO SCHOOL AND TELL EVERYBODY HE'S A FREAKING FAIRY.

Think, people. About your kids. Not what makes YOU feel good. But about what is best for normal, healthy development for your child.

I am one of those "wacko" attachment parenting/breastfeeding/co-sleeping parents of 2 kids and have to throw in my perspective, just 'cause I know everyone is equally deserving of my opinion. (snerk!)

Attachment parenting is not dragging a 4 year old into a nail salon and expecting them to sit on Mom's lap like a Yorkshire Terrier until the enamel dries. In a tiny nutshell, it is about knowing your child and and meeting their needs (not every want) so that they eventually grow up to be independant, confident and contributing members of society. Nail Salon Mommy should have left Junior w/ Daddy or a babysitter and taken the time by herself. She was just an inconsiderate bee-hatch.

I have breastfed both my kids, and it is indisputably the best option for a newborn. However, there are so many reasons why another Mom would choose to bottlefeed, and as long as a baby is geting fed, it is nobody else's DAMN business how! I also breastfed in public, but I never stuck a tassel on my nipple and swung it around first.

The Mister and I started co-sleeping when our first child was born, without knowing there was a name for it. It just worked out better that way for all involved and we all got so much more sleep! She had no problem moving to her own bed when it was time. Same for our son. (yup, if there's a nightmare, they get to come snuggle for comfort)

StinkyEarl


That's a great point. To be a good parent, you have to consciously parent. Not try to present all the images you think a good parent should look/act/be like. Children are not accessories.

Also- a favorite Aunt of mine is childfree by choice. She never wanted to parent and made sure she couldn't in her 20's. Lucky me, I was one of the recipients of her lavish attention and loved getting to spend the night at her house being "spoiled" by her!

Snort! Your name for the BBF kids cracked me up becuase in real life all the Bradleys and Britneys I know are brats. No offense intended to the moms of Brads and Brits out there, but gak, there sure was a gotta-get-a-McMansion-and-a-Brittney phase early 90s, wasn't there? And all I can think is you named your kid after the Chipettes, or worse, after a region in France.



She probably breast fed till he was six too. God bless breast feeding in general, its healthy, blah blah blahcakes, but we all know someone who breastfeeds well after the kid is walking, talking, potty trained, mentioning it to strangers. I so don't get that keep em babies till they're teens thing at all.

:) :0

Yes...I actually know a Bradley and a Britney who are brats. Hey, they also live in a McMansion with TIBP's (two-income brainless parents). Hmmm.... I think they might be the original family that got all that CONTEMPT fired up back in the 90's when BBFs first started taking over the world.

B & B....They are not twins, but are about 14 months apart. I try not to call them Bratney and Bratley to their mom's face. (BION, StinkyEarl does try hard not say everything that comes to mind). So I refer to them as "Thing One" and "Thing Two".

She thinks it's endearing. Puke. Barf.

B & B are not allowed at my social functions. I say no kids, but it's mainly those two that I am trying to exclude. When I say T-1 and T-2, I really mean it. And those kids don't know the meaning of LIMITS. Shame. They ruin it for everyone.
What's the point in having kids that your friends have to exclude? Useless parents.

I also know others who are brats... a Dakota, and a Chandler, and a Evan, and an Dexter. ...and let's don't forget little degenerates Catherine-Crocket and Ethan-Howard. I'd like to take a big peach limb to both of those.

Seems like the hypenated ones are really really snotty and stupid. I avoid them like the plague. Yep. I would expect to see the hyphenated's on Dr. Shrill in a few years...

Hell, that even sounds like some type of damn seriously fatal alien-borne disease...

"look out! ..Here come the hypenated's!".

"Run for your lives!! It's hypenated!"

http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0078748/th-5337_16_8.jpg

Rock on sister. I have no problem with public breastfeeding but I have seen some women practically take out a bullhorn and announce "I will now be exposing my breast. My naked breast. Look at my naked breast. But don't look at it like it's a sex object! It's meant to feed children you perverts! My naked breast!" before breastfeeding. Of course everyone is looking and everyone is uncomfortable by then!



First off, I really don't think it's "crap". It's an arrangment that works for a lot of people. Second, I think it's like almost any other childhood behavior. It's ok at some point and at some point, it has to stop. Of course you can't let an 15 year old sleep in bed with you but you wouldn't let a 15 year old crap in their pants either. Your job as a parent is to help you kids grow out of those childhood behaviors. Not everyone who co-sleeps with their infant is going to have a nine year old sleeping next to them further down the line. To me that's an example of not doing your job of helping your kids grow out of a childhood behavior.

Yes, she "tried" (emphasis on wimpiness) to put a stop to it, but after overindulging and allowing him to sleep beside her for years, it was impossible. She even tried buying a $5,000 bed that looked like an airplane. But by the time he reached the age of five, he had a phobia about sleeping away from Mama Bear, and he just wasn't having and part of it. So they went shopping for matching sleigh beds.

(That says it all, huh?)

The problem is, a few kids will go away on their own, to their own bed, at a normal/appropriate time. But there are other kids who won't, and develop a dependency that is sickening.

Now, I wouldn't tell my kid to go away if he wanted to climb in my bed when he was little and scared. I'm not saying that. But I wouldn't have let him stay all night long or make it a regular thing. To do that might have made him a dependent little wimp. Not my goal. Maybe other people's goal, but not mine. I want him to grow up and take the world by storm. Can't do that from the comfort of Mama Bear's bed.

I hope to gawd my nephew gets some serious peer pressure to move out of his mommy's room. He can't keep it a secret forever, and the guys at school are starting to ask about spending the night. Peer pressure can be a good thing, I guess.

I got warned on the View forum (I hate the View). I try to go back and forth between Shrill and The View. Somebody was complaining about the View hostesses, and all I said was (agreeing) that "Star is a squash-butt" and "Joy is a bitch". I kept my opinion short and simple. They deleted my posts and said I didn't participate enough. Never heard of a minimum participation clause. Have any of you?

StinkyEarl, you know I'm planning to have your baby and all (Dammit! I'm childfree! Well, there goes that plan...), but be careful with back to back posts. Streng verboten hier.

The attachment parenting issue is always one that fans the flames of a virtual bonfire. I studied it extensively at university, and my sister is widely considered an expert about the practice. *brag mode* She is one of the most well-regarded child development specialists and teachers in the United States, and she was just named head of a fantastic daycare program in the Midwest. She also has a child of her own, with one on the way.

My sister's biggest problem with the co-sleeping concept is that she feels it has three undesirable outcomes: a) it undermines the relationship between the father and the mother of the children (as in, what was the marital bed is now the family bed); and b) while attachment parenting is aimed at addressing children's "needs," one of the most important needs a child has is to learn that he or she is perfectly all right on their own, including in the dark, in their own bed, at nighttime; c) more than any other aspect of attachment parenting, it teaches the child that his or her mother's sole purpose in life is that of providing for these needs...that mom has no other identity other than that of Gentle Servant to the Child...that mom doesn't even get the sleeping hours to herself. My sister feels this is unhealthy for mother and child, not to mention father, if he is in the picture.

And, of course, none of the pertains to the wee little ones, who need their mums and should be kept all swaddled and snug ;-)

Obviously, it is six of one, a half-dozen of the other, and neither side is going to change the others' minds! I would like to see the Shill present a balanced debate on something like this; however, he'd fuck it up, like he did with that incredibly hostile, adversarial, and ludricrous "debate" he did with the working and SAH mothers. I'm not even a mother, and I found that program positively insulting. There is no right answer, and we women need to stick together and be there for one another. Shill was egging each side on, and it was so disheartening to see women trashing other women and their choices.

How do you all feel about the "Cry It Out" method?

maggiegault:

That show really burned me, too. While I do think it's ultimately best for a child to have at least one parent home with them, it's just not feasible all the time. Women who work shouldn't feel like they're inferior or feel guilty because they have to help provide income or want a career. Likewise, women who stay home to care for children shouldn't feel like they're betraying those who sacrificed to get women rights to work, vote, etc. I think DP did a great disservice with the show; he should've tried to make both sides see that they're all moms and shouldn't be bickering about who's better. But then that would've alienated his groupies.

Monday's show looks like it's going to be good. I love shows about spoiled kids, it gives me the chance to "When I was your age, our toilets froze in the winter" at the TV.