I wanted to know a little more about Moocher #1. There seemed to be more to her than the usual can't-get-out-of-the-house story.

Where are my IKEA gift certificates? *whimperwhimperwhinewhine*

Sikamikanico:

WORD. He cries more than Marty, ferchrissake!

Thanks for more info, and I agree. I don't think Stacy can be helped at all via DP's show.

Moochers: Moocher 1 was horrific. While Moocher 2 in no way deserved the IKEA stuff, I was kind of glad he got it just so Moocher 1 would be pissed. Her whiney, poor me "Nobody ever gave me anything" (except for free room and board for you and your two kids for two years) made me want to send her to live with spatula mom. I despise her.

Spanking: I think a pop on the butt when they are little and don't understand consequences (like running out in the road) does no harm. I was spanked as a kid, and it hasn't made me violent or damaged. That said, the issue is far greater. I taught public high school from 1992 to 2000, and even during that time frame, the permissiveness of parents had an overwhelming effect on the achievement, personal responsibility, work ethic and overall general likeability of the kids. Complicatedgirl, I'm sure I can relate to your sister, although we taught different age groups. I loved teaching at one time, but I would never go back now, and the refusal of most parents to be disciplinarians rather than buddies for their kids is the primary reason. You know what else, most of my time teaching was spent in an upper middle class area where the parents were educated, and they were the worse. My first three years were in a lower income level with lots of single moms and poverty stricken families, but they had much higher expectations of their kids (regarding personal responsibility and behavior) than did the others.

I've been in a store or restaurant soooo many times where there have been loud, obnoxious small children and they're always with a parent who just doesn't GET that their behaviour in public should be more toned-down than whatever they're acting like at home. I'm afraid that my own kids are looking at the obnoxious kids and thinking, "So that's okay? I can yell my head off in this store and Mom won't care? Hmmmm..." I would love to shake one of those parents and call their attention to the fact that they are making every other person's shopping/dining experience miserable.
Discipline. Please! Something!

Oh, gawd. They're sending Alex to the Islands for SCUBA lessons and time with a Marine Biologist.

I've gotta get on this show. Everyone gets something.

I think that DP has finally given up on Marty and Erin, and he and Jay have just decided to raise these kids themselves.

As for the parenting issues, I am afraid that it is only going to get worse. I have had 4 friends and a step-sister have a child in the past year, and I am currently in my third trimester w/ Baby Boy Borokat. When I started sharing my philosophy on child rearing w/them, which I think is pretty simple, ie- you eat what's on your plate, if you are old enough to pull out a toy and play with it, you are old enough to put it up- I got laughed out of the room. "Oh, Katie has alot to learn!" Like my opinions are so outlandish and it is perfectly normal for a 6 MONTH OLD to have 18 toys strewn across the living room- that was the scene that I encountered at one of my friend's house. I thought- this is how bratty kids begin.

One of my friends refuses to leave the house w/ her 3 month old. She says she just likes to sit there and watch him and nurse him all day long. My point is- this kind of permissive child rearing starts at birth. These parents think that their kids are little pieces of perfection and it really speaks to their own narcissism that they think their child is unworthy of discipline. Then they become Brandon.

Of course, I am always not so tactful about children. My opinion at a recent baby shower that I like dogs more than kids went over like a pregnant pole vaulter.

Congrats, Borokat!

Anyway, I just wanted to state for the record that I think all of us can agree that children need structure and discipline. People need to know how to act in public and that learning begins as a child. Now, what method of discipline is proper/best/works/whatever is where the debate comes in. I do think there are realms where it is clearly abusive where it should no longer be open to debate.

Back to the "moochers"...I really didn't think that the second kid was all that bad. Yeah, he might be a little lacking in motivation, but it was only between 6 - 8 months. It's just not that big of a deal. The thing that I found interesting was the third family. Did I hear correctly that they've had 20 different family members living with them? Yikes! I think there's a pattern there that has nothing to do with the nephew. I have an aunt and uncle who are always 'rescuing' people who then tend to take advantage of them. It's a thing with some people.

DrCher:

No doubt! I've been racking my brain trying to figure out what I can do to get on the show. Pregnant teenager? No. Mooching off my parents? No. Cheating on my fiance? No. Does pre-marital sex count as "bad" in DP's world?

borokat:

HA! Is it wrong of me to think puppies and kittens are cuter than human babies?

I don't think it's out of order to think kids can learn to pick up toys. I made the 2-year-olds in the nursery pick up after themselves and they were able to do it. You do have to remind them, but they can learn.

Kids today have too many damn toys. When I was growing up, we were poor (actually below poverty line). Mom would bring home cardboard displays from Walgreen's and we would play with those. I wish DP would do a show that focused on parents who buy excessive amounts of toys for their children.

SnowDog - Any of these future shows work for you?



Maybe if I go with the 'Spouse who is too open with nudity', I'll get some free clothes...

Okay, today, on the topic of being sexual with boys, Katherine said: "Before today, I didn't know that it was OK for me to say 'no,' and they would still want to be with me"

WTF?

complicatedgirl, I agree that parents shouldn't let their children run wild. I think that's just as harmful (if not more so) than spanking, and I find nothing more bothersome than seeing a parent who constantly acquiesces to their child.

As for the "moochers" - geesh, like others have said, what's the point of giving gifts to moochers? I'd have loved it if someone would have paid my first month's rent, never mind provide me with gift certificates. Dr. Phil is always going on about how he hopes others out there will learn from the people on his show but all I learned from this show is that I should have held out for gifts before I moved out of my parent's house.

I agree. How do all these gifts, etc. help people watching at home who are trying to cope with the same problems? What can you do to straighten up your wayward daughter when you can't afford SCUBA lessons?

Wha? What does seeing a Marine Biologist have to with keeping your legs closed and raising your child? Did I miss something?

Amen to all about raising kids with discipline and structure (and not spanking except for a pop on the bottom when they're toddlers).

Where the hell has all the common sense gone?

Too many toys also. When my son was growing up, we got him 1 present for Christmas and one for his birthday. No sense in getting more because the relatives got him stuff. Plus he didn't need a toy store to be fulfilled, IMO. It just wasn't necessary. We knew as he grew that he would see toys on television and started educating him on consumerism and impulsive buying (in basic terms of course) way back when he started repeating the phrase, "Collect them all!" Doing activities with your kids is the way to go instead of buying them toys to keep them busy and out of your hair.

Parents make me sick now. They just don't have a clue. And this goes for Erin, Marty, and Dr. Phil. Kids who mooch off their parents---like Jay? And WTF is with Dr. Shil about giving people stuff? Where in the psych books does it say that awarding people toys, I mean expensive stuff, is a great motivator for changing behavior. That dog won't hunt.

But it will bite you in the butt someday, Dr. Shil. You're a fool.

Dr. Phil's son seems to have a large ass. I couldn't take my eyes off his rear-end today. Maybe he was just standing weird?

Yeah El DeMarge, it's too bad. I'm sure he's a very nice boy but unfortunately, the opinion of nerdy, pear-shaped guys just don't carry as much weight with teen girls as those of really "cute" guys. I noticed that one of the Stair Well of Wisdom boys was pretty hot by middle-school standards and the girls were just hanging on every word he said.

Borokat

Hee, a LOL moment.



I have to go with the friend on this one. I'm all for structure and age appropriate discipline as they grow able to understand it, but I think a 3 month old who just gets fed and cuddled all day is a lucky baby.

I'm sorry...if I had daughters that age, I would be reeeaaallly squicked about Smarmy!Jay spending time with them and talking about Bridging the Gap. I can only imagine what he might have on his mind...just saying.

Is it me or should DP re-think this family therapy thing?

Stardancer2001:

Beats me.... maybe a marine biologist would tell her what fishes could swim up her hoo-hoo if she doesn't keep her legs closed?

El DeMarge:

And DP seems to be a large ass. ;-)

DrCher, I could go with either Role Of The Woman or Are You A Part Of An "Odd Couple"?. Maybe I can get some new cookware with the first one and a honeymoon to Maui with the second one.

Oh, Alex wants to be a marine biologist? Doesn't that require, I dunno, being smart?

When I was young, single, sexually active, and on vacation in the Caribbean, I was the perfectly chaste the entire time...

SnowDog: I'll see ya at the show. We'll see who received the better freebies.

RE: Shill Jr's ass. I think he was wearing an adult diaper. I hear he's kinky like that.

Okay, quick question...

Just what has Alex done to merit such a prize?

Was it...

a. Getting knocked up at 15?
b. Thinking the world revolves around her?
c. Making Kathryn's life miserable?
d. Being Marty's "special girl"? (Ewwwww.)
e. Popping out a little sprog who most likely will be on the welfare dime?
f. Thinking she is the Dalai Lama now that she spewed from her loins?
g. Affecting that smug and holier-than-thou bovine look each time?
h. Handing off the care of little Nathan to her parents all of the time?
i. Actually sleeping with another boy after one illegitimate baby is born?
j. Providing the lamest, most trite justifications for doing so?
k. Being, just in general, a slutty little twit who will be knocked up again soon?

Trying...to...breathe!!! Oooooh, too much wine. Thank you, DrCher. :)

Gah! I missed it. I have a new job (yay!) and did not get home in time. What happened? Can someone briefly recap?

Preview for tomorrow's show: I actually have a transsexual relative myself, and I have yet to see a media portrayal of the subject that is not sensationalized and that in any way rings true to my experience. If Dr. Phil does anything stupid, I will be back here tomorrow night to mouth off about it :-)

Ewwwwwwwww!!! They're gonna give Marty sex advice new week! Ewwww!

I've already forgotten most of it MaskedSpangler, but it was a very boring show.

Jay took Alex and Katherine to his college where a bunch of his male friends talked to the girls about What Boys Think. It was a lot of fast remarks like, "make the boys open doors for you", "be interested in things" "be friends before you have sex." What seemed to really make an impact on the girls was seeing the school and being able to visualize a future beyond high school.

Then DP said that girls who wait to have sex usually are busy with other interests so he's sending Alex to the Islands to learn scuba diving. Wonder if Nathan's going to go with?

Edited to add to Snowdog; double ewwww.

Like, keep it in your pants? That's the advice he needs.

RE: Tomorrow's episode

I hope that baby-talking wife has stopped or her husband has divorced her. I don't think I could put up with that for two minutes.

Or two seconds.

Glad we don't have to hear from Trista anymore.

Brandon the Druggie Punk is/was going to be on CSI? Why?

Because he's been clean for a few weeks. Isn't that the gift everyone gets?

Actually, Robin is going to give Marty sex advice. Hope Dr. Phil gives Erin a Robin mask for afterwards.

And Oh My God! Why, oh why would they let the two spoiled little tramps check into the "best hotel in Dallas" and "relax," then have Jay take them to the "best restaurant in the country." WHO HAD NATHAN? Why didn't he give Marty and Erin a weekend at a hotel to relax, and have Jay (for Alex) and Jordan (for Katherine) go to the house?????

And I was looking at the upcoming shows, and [small voice]what is a booty camp?[/small voice]

I just watched the FUF1 episode that I taped. Alex's had a large smile on her face the whole time leading up to Dr. P telling her about her vacation to the Islands. Her reaction to the news seemed very rehersed. I think the trip to Texas and the trip to the Islands for Alex were a bribe to continue to be on the show. If I am right then the younger daughter will recieve some kind of reward later. It does not make sence to send Alex. They are worried about her have sex again and their answer to setting some teenage dating ground rules is to send her on a vacation to learn scuba diving away from her parents.

Moocher 1 question: "Are you my mother or my landlord?"
My Answer: "She's both, bitch"
When you move back home with your parents you have to follow there rules. Why? Because it's their freakin' house; they've got the right to kick you out whenever they want.



You know what? I'm already scarred enough; I do not need to see that on my television.

ETA: Dude, I have got to find a way to get in on these prizes, man. One moocher gets an apartment, the Teenage Whore gets a trip to the Islands; I'm screwed up, where's my prize goddamn it?!

Congrats Ms. Borokat! and fwiw I think you're right on about too many toys and picking them up, dunno about six months, having a three month old myself. The one thing I do agree with DP about is age-appropriate discipline and decision-making. Too many toys: my niece got so much on her fourth birthday that she got tired of opening presents and pitched a temper tantrum. (Did I already post that? It still blows my mind.)

Don't be too hard on your friend. You may find you are surprisingly confined to the couch with a newborn, especially if you breastfeed. Be prepared. If you're like me, and want to be getting things done, it can feel excruciatingly restrictive. Cuddle, change, feed is pretty much the order of the day, although Hex Jr and I have been out plenty. BTW, watch your blood pressure!!

OT: The hot college guys bit was so. scripted. And you know the girls were thinking "he's hot. oh, he's hot. and he's hot. He is so digging me." And granted, I didn't go to SMU, but when I was in college at least 60% of the guys did indeed want to see if you had the same interests as they did: Do you put out?

edited 'cause my grammar were bad

I noticed that a couple guys who were sitting on the higher steps didn't say anything at all. Were they just placed there so it would look like a bigger "group of advice-giving guys"? Or were their comments just edited out (Dude, just, like, if you got weed? That's all a guy needs, dude. Oh, you got a nice rack? Yeah...)?

A 6-month-old isn't walking yet and probably doesn't understand a lot of language yet, so he won't be putting away any toys. However, I bet by around 18 months, he will be ready to understand a concept like "Toy goes here, not here". I'm working on it with my baby and sometimes he does it and sometimes he speed-walks the other direction.

Thanks, guys. I actually talked to newborn mommy friend last night and she has gotten out of the mental stage- for the most part. She actually took the baby to Red Lobster!



Hexele, I am going to have to stop watching DP, because these recent shows are probably making it go thru the roof!

Alexandra gets a trip to the Four Seasons in Dallas and scuba trip to the Cayman Islands.

Notice she did not say, "What about Nathan?"

Or, "Thank you."

This show is so fucked up with the prizes to screwups.

I seriously think that the show had to start offering prizes because they werenot getting enough submissions to be on there. this way they can insure renewal of show for several seasons.

I hate Dr. Shil, Robin, and fatbutt JayShillJr.

I missed the last 15 minutes of today's show. Can someone tell me about this thumb-sucking woman? I never saw the show in which she originally appeared. Like was the thumb-sucking ruining her life or something? I really don't understand what the major problem could be there.

And the baby-talking wife looks 15 with a 45-yr-old husband. How OLD is she, does anyone remember?

Why do all sluts want to be marine biologists? It's mostly studying plankton formation and algae growth, y'know.

They have similar IQs!

Seriously, though...last night's FUF1 show really pissed me off. I was willing to accept that the panel of boys was all coached and staged, but still, they had some valuable things to say. Word to the one who said that if the boy isn't interested in your hobbies, thoughts, and interests, he is only interested in one thing. They also alluded to something that I really think needs to be said: sex is great as is, but it is wonderful when you make love with someone you love. The connection is incredibly powerful then. That should be the goal of lovemaking (well, and babies, if you want them!).

I just don't think Alex gets that. She just looks so clueless. Perhaps she will never understand that.

What a shame it is that these young girls view sex as merely something they must do to gain the attention of a boy. Why aren't these girls being taught that sex is enjoyable for women, too, and that a man/woman should be concerned with giving pleasure, also?

And what the hell was up with the luxe accomodations, the restaurant (I've heard of it and they are right: it is supposed to be the best in the United States), and the first class treatment? Alex HAS A BABY AT HOME. Must be nice to get knocked up, foolishly decide to go through with the pregnancy, then foolishly decide to keep the baby, then go gallavanting off to Dallas with the Dr. Shill crew.

Oh, and she has a scuba trip to the Caymans coming up, too. WORD to Tosia: the little cow didn't ask about her son ONCE.

Here's a thought: let's go to Cabrini Green in Chicago and find a couple of single mothers there and shower THEM with gifts. Or, better yet, let's help them with the actual realities of being a 15 year old mom: pay their rent to their slumlord. pick up their WIC vouchers. shop for hand-me-down clothes, or get clothes free from a charity. figure out a way for her to work while her baby stays at home.

Dr. Shill has done a disservice to the teenaged girls of America. Well, the boys too: what about holding the father of the baby accountable? What about teaching the lesson that if you fuck without a condom, this is what can happen?

Did anyone else think it was odd that a 13-year-old and a 15-year-old, esp. when they hadn't proven themselves especially trustworthy or mature, were allowed to spend a weekend alone in a hotel?! Hopefully Dr. Phil and Jay were bright enough to clue in that this was not a great idea, and had someone staying in the hotel to make sure they didn't do anything too stupid, but from what was presented, they came alone, stayed alone in the hotel, etc.

ICAM about the "prizes" for bad behavior - first with the moochers, now with Slutzilla (tm somone fuckin' brilliant) and her trip to the islands (not only who's gonna watch Nathan, but who's gonna watch her!).

Has Baby Nathan's father ever been on Dr. Shill?

Maybe she thinks she has to be a marine biologist so she can work at Sea World and ride Shamu in a show, wearing a thong and pasties. How glaaaaamourous! So I assume she'll just hand over her baby to her parents when she goes away to college, right?

They've never shown his face on the tapes, DrCher. He's also never been on the show. Apparently he doesn't want his personal life on display for the world's enjoyment. And Alex says he's the trashy one???

Damn. I'd managed to block out the memory of the baby talk woman. She was just disturbing and I'm so glad she stopped.

Hee! to below.

What the hell is wrong with that kid? He could get prizes!

I've GOT to get this off my chest cuz this is really bothering me....

Let me get this right, Dr. Phil, king of own up to your behavior and mistakes, sends Alex, aka, the girl who won't keep her legs shut, to the Cayman Islands to keep her mind off of boys?

What kind of world do we leave in when we condemn girls of lower socioeconomic class for having babies out of wedlock but validate little spoiled girls for being the town's bike with trip to the islands??

We send people to jail for long amounts of time for being caught with a miniscule amount of weed but if they're on Dr. Phil and are fucking junkies, they get a part on a television show?

I found his show amusing at most but he can go straight to hell now. What a hypocite and a double standard. Thanks everyone for turning me off this show forever.

Dr. Shil, indeed!

Word.

Does it strike anyone else as not the greatest idea to send Druggie Boy to Hollywood? Gee, drugs, alcohol and substance abuse = temptations in the television/acting industry? Nah.....

Oh Today's Dr. Shill, we put a plant in the audience to say to Robin:

"You're so beautiful, talented and intelligent! You just seem so perfect!"

Sigh. Your paycheck is in the mail, Actor#5087.

Re. Druggie Boy: Can someone just send him a copy of "Corey Haim: The E! True Hollywood Story?" That would take care of this crazy acting idea...

Oh, I would think it would only encourage him.

But he's reformed now! ;)

Regarding his debate today regarding marriage before 30: I find it funny that he didn't use his own experience to bolster his argument.Like the the fact that Robin is his SECOND wife, that he married a girl when he was quite young and it didn't work out (she's said, though it is not confirmed, that he was unfaithful). That never gets mentioned. What a chicken.

I wish I existed solely to correct Dr. Phil's grammar, too. That woman was insane.