blocked writer, you parents don't sound cheap, it sounds like they made you learn to be accountable for your expenses and how to budget. What a great gift!

You'd be surprised how insidious the media is. There's only so much of the outside world you can keep out. But this is where that fabulous word "no" comes in.

"Can I go see The Incredible Hulk" Batboy asked (despite not watching any ads for it, it was so heavily cross-marketed with other, kid-friendly things, it was an inevitable request). And our answer: No. "Can I....?" And our answer: No.

Sometimes you get the follow up question/whine: "But Soandso saw it; why can't I?" You have to bust out a few more words for this response, but it's almost as easy as "no": "I'm not Soandso's mother. I'm your mother and my answer is still 'no'".

You've all covered what a great disservice it is to the child to have every whim indulged so I won't retread that, but what also gets me is the parents' underestimation of the child's ability to cope and understand why they can't have everything. Sure, sometimes they fuss and pout and create a ruckas when they don't get what they want, but they can also be pretty understanding. We just explained to Batboy this morning that we couldn't get him a baseball gear bag now because it wasn't something he needed and we'd already spent a fair bit on registration fees and the gear he did need this season. He understood and is now eagerly awaiting his next birthday, when we told him he will get the gear bag, if it's something he still wants. Parents who think that their kids aren't capable of reason must not think very highly of their children.

I personally have never forgiven my mother for not letting me see "A Hard Day's Night" twice. She's 91 now, and I still bring it up at least three or four times a year. Ultimately, children will get their revenge.

batmom, your post reminded me of a previous coworker. She was telling me about how her daughter had whined to her about "soandso" getting to do something that she was not allowed to do. The daughter ended her whine with "You're so mean!" Coworker made me laugh when she told me how she answered her daughter - "In every group of kids there is one kid who has the mean mom. Guess what, you are that kid."

I'm thinking this has some merit. I still can't get over being forbidden to attend an Osmond Brothers in concert (there had been riots at that venue in 68 after another concert--Pat Boone's I think) and then having to hear from my friends about how Donny and Merrill and Chester or whomever rocked it out. It was an experience that left such deep scars I think I owe it to them to make awful their dotage by pouting whenever I hear their canes klunking into the room.

Ha! Hey, if the doctor's right about my being infertile, I might take you up on that. ;-)

You know the parents of the overly-entitled 17 year old (the first one - Leah?) weren't doing anything sensible like, for example, putting money into a college fund. It was all about buying her new cars instead. That isn't love, that's stupidity.
My parents had a fair amount of money when I was a child, but they didn't spend it on anything luxurious for their children or even for themselves. We traveled a lot, but it was virtually all tent camping. They bought me a horse, but only after I had proven I could be responsible by taking lessons and volunteering to provide daily care for a pony for years. And the horse they bought me was a $100 fixer-upper (I fixed him up and he was a great horse). What my parents did with their money was religiously salt it away in the stock market and real estate. Because of their frugality and efforts at saving, they were able to send all five children to private colleges, without any student loans or even scholarships involved. Now THAT is real love and making a child happy. They also saved for their retirement, retired early, and are now living large like they did not do when they had a bunch of rugrats running around.
Dr. Phil was generally on the mark (something I am loath to say about him) but he should have talked to the parents about the importance of saving for college and retirement rather than dumping money into designer goods and new cars.
It was kind of funny to listen to Dr. Phil yak on about how it is bad for parents to buy their children everything they want when he is the king of nepotism and just bought one of his sons some big-ass home in the Hollywood Hills.

Saw the first of the FUF2 yesterday (guess this is in reruns for the summer). What struck me (not having seen it at all) was how annoying Dr. Phil was. My favorite part was when he asked them if they had any questions for him. When they asked them - he didn't answer?! He did that stupid psychologist thing: "Wail, what do YOU thank?"

I liked the kids - but that older girl seems headed for trouble. Talk about being the good girl in order to please everyone in the family.

I saw the first FUF2 ep. yesterday too. From watching later episodes I've decided that Stacey is an evil manipulator, sure; but she also struck me as having some pretty deep problems that can't be explained away by pegging her as the con-artist adulteress who's hellbent on ruining her marriage(s).

I don't like the woman, and I never thought I'd be the least bit sympathetic towards her, but she was married at 17 - 17! - to a bully; and then she cheated on her second husband because (as she said) she couldn't cope with how nice he was to her. I'm no Dr. Shill but that had alarm bells ringing in my head - she may have interpreted kindness as a weakness she could exploit, which means that Stacey has some yooge problems. Well, too bad for her that alarms didn't ring in Dr. Shill's big empty head; he was just determined to slap that scarlet "A" on her chest. For Dr. Shill it's all about weak, not-manly men and their bullying, manipulative (and oftentimes slutty) wives. He seems determined to pigeonhole every couple like this.

Dr. Phil does great with light problems like "my kid wants designer stuff". It's fun to watch bratty kids and spineless parents and feel just a little bit better about yourself (c'mon, admit it). Their problems aren't super serious. No one is going to die anytime soon over this stuff. And the answer is easy, stop allowing this to happen. Dr. Phil can use these easy problems to spout off a bunch of folksy sayings and voila, problem solved. In theory.

But FUFs demonstrate how Dr. Phil can get in WAY over his head. He is not equipped to handle serious mental illness or long-standing emotional problems at all. Or at least his show is not the format to do that. Folksy saying aren't going to save Chris and Stacy or Marty and Erin or anyone with serious family issues that go way way back. It's just malpractice. And as far as that "for entertainment purposes only" disclaimer goes, well - bullcrap. People don't expose the intimate details of their lives for entertainment purposes only. They think you are going to help them!

Medigal, etal - Medigal's point is well taken and apparently someone with some means agrees.

According to the ABCNews World News Tonight broadcast, tomorrow on Good Morning America, there's going to be a guy who's taking Dr. Phil to court over the very concept of whether the show is truly therapy/counselling 'for entertainment only'.

I can't watch it because I'll be at work at that time of morning, but if someone could just relay what the story is, it should be interesting.

After reading becca656's post, I went trolling on Google News for Dr. Phil headlines. Couldn't find the exact one she mentioned, but these are interesting:

The Bambi Bembenek case is dismissed (she had claimed the show's producers were keeping her hostage; she suffered a panic attack and tried to escape through a window, injuring herself in the process)


Canadian government pays to send employees to Dr. Phil seminar at a a day-long conference called "The Power Within," and the Canadian Taxpayers Federation is angry

And another thing that bugged - he asked her if she thought she was a sex addict. She said something semi-commital, like, "well, I'm not sure. I never thought about it. Maybe I am." It was clear she thought that was the "right" answer.

Then, Dr. Phil-in-the-blank jumped all over with his Church Lady routine, "Isn't that so conveeeeeenient, blah blah blah."

He totally laid a trap for her. Very cruel. Not that I'm excusing her F'ed-Up behavior. But really, WTF?

I noticed that, too, franabanana. Watching this for the second time, it seems so obvious to me how much personal dislike he had for Stacey. He had no business trying to counsel her.

I just don't get why Chris married her. I know the show is edited, and I know that people can seem boring on TV, but have they even said why? Like, he thought she was pretty, seductive, smart, interesting? Did he want to rescue her from her bad marriage? Was he rebelling against his folks? I mean they warned him off of her (he was still in college, right?) because of her marriages, and poor behavior--legit concerns, I think....What is is about her, that Chris wanted so badly?

I don't have any sympathy for Stacey getting marriage at 17 because I would bet dollars to doughnuts she got married because she got knocked up. I would believe she hooked up with Chris because of a bad marriage except that she claimed she cheated on hubby #2 because he was too good to her and it freaked her out while she fucked around on Chris because he wasn't attentive enough. What the fuck is wrong with the Mormon church where you can apparently seal and unseal marriage like those Ronco devices? I hop to Jeebus that Dr. Phil follows up on bot the FUFs when the new season begins.

I think Chris believed that he could 'save' Stacey. That he would be the 'one' and she wouldn't stray, and they'd pray through it. When any chance of playing the savior went out the window, he stood with her for his son.

As a Mormon I can tell you that it isn't at all common to seal/unseal marriages. And, the thing I find the most disturbing and misrepresentative of the Mormon faith and of temple marriages is this - Stacy wouldn't be allowed anywhere near a Mormon temple right now. Even if Chris wanted to get their marriage sealed in the temple (and he's totally right in shying away from that one) no Mormon religious leader in their right mind is going to condone or allow it. You can't be running around having children with random men and having affairs like candy and then go and get your marriage sealed in the temple. It ain't how it works - its a process and you have to be considered worthy and ready by two layers of religious leaders.

I'd venture to guess that the reason her second marriage was "unsealed" was because her second husband wanted to get it undone. I'm betting that he wanted to be sealed to someone else, and so he did it - not her. When in the eyes of Mormons your sealing means that you are with someone for "time and all eternity" the idea of being with Stacy for that long probably wasn't terribly appealing for husband #2.

I'm ticked at Dr. Phil for not really calling her out on the entirety of her claim of being a religious Mormon. He calls her out a little bit saying the church doesn't say she can't have a job - even though she is saying it does. What the Mormon church says is if you don't have to have a job - you ought to be home with your kids. However, what the Mormon church isn't gray on at all is adultry. I don't get how she gets to use her religion as an excuse for not getting a job but she just ignores the fact that she hasn't been living her religion ever for all I can tell based on her marriage and sexual history. In fact, I'd be shocked if at some point the Mormon church hadn't excommunicated her. If she's having affairs during a marriage sealed in the temple, those are pretty huge offenses in the eyes of the church.

I'll just say that as a real practicing Mormon, listening to her and her manipulations and lies makes me want to vomit. The fact that she is taking money from the church to pay for her debts because she's too lazy to get a job makes me ill. That welfare money should be going to someone who really needs it.

Dr. Phil should have pulled in one of her religious leaders,since she brings it up, to call her out on her crap.

The freebies I've seen audience members find under their seats are copies of Dr. Phil's books. How typically lame and self-aggrandizing. Especially when you can buy them on amazon starting at 1 cent. I tried to sell one at a yard sale a few weeks ago and even at 25 cents no one would take it!

Yeah, but during the makeover shows, everyone got goodie bags featuring Robin's favorite products and gift certificates from the sponsors. As for the books, I would probably just donate them to the friends of the library book sale! It all depends on the luck of the draw.

talonius, thank you for your informative response -- I'm sure that clarified matters for a lot of us. I have no doubt that Stacey is being less than honest with DP and the audience about her current standing in the church. I can't imagine many congregations would want to have the woman who has practically become the poster child for extramarital bad behavior in their midst (until they were absolutely sure she had changed her ways, of course), much less give her handouts.

After a crosscountry move, I'm pleased to be back on the board and wanted to see what y'all Phillibusters have been up to for the past week...
$hill Monthly is 25bucks?!?! The DrPhil Snack Bars are 3-for-a-dollar here in New Mexico...

And, thanks talonius, for your perspective on SkankyStacey's abuse of the church's resources... I'm not Mormon but it so crabs me out to see her manipulative schtick...

Ummm, that would have been some good TV.

Glad you survivied the number one stress factor, stinkylulu.
"Phillibusters" heee.

I managed to catch the Good Morning America with the guy suing about the disclaimer, and he made some excellent points regarding the disclaimer being at the end of the program (when people start flipping channels) and it being too small and moving too fast to even read it.

His point being, that very ill, desperate people may watch the show for real advice when they should be going to the doctor, in addition to my opinion that the name "Dr" in the title of the program denotes a certain amount of authority that is unwarranted if it is just for entertainment purposes only.

Dr. Drew gave much more reasoned, thought out advice and that was MTV, for Chrissakes.

Watched Dr. Phil-anderer's interaction with Stacey and I agree it was a totaly set-up. He was far too angry with her, so much so that I think it verged, if not went over the line into Counter-transferrence area. That's a thing where the therapist identifies for some reason or another far too much with the client and do not separate their own wants/angers/whatevers from the patient.

Final comment about the spoiled children: I was angry about his interaction with the 15 year old who wanted to be a fashion designer. Way to try to crush hopes and dreams, assjob. You're supposed to have big, unrealistic dreams at that age. What did he do, spring out of the womb a 40 year old driving a car with no reverse? Riiiight.

To paraphrase Uncle Buck, "I don't want to know a five year old who's not a Silly-heart."

Thanks, that was my thought on it too -- although I think she was 17. And she did have a J-O-B!

I also have an aspiring designer (or possibly architect! still mulling it over) of the same age -- who is in fact doing a lot of *practical* things to prepare for such a career (attends a creative & performing arts high school, takes college courses in art & architecture, is doing an internship this summer at Fallingwater, has designed & modeled for local fashion shows, worked with local designers, & also has a J-O-B in a fabric store, so she gets a nice discount on supplies!) And, we have the great good fortune that my husband works for a pretty well-regarded university -- which means that, provided she's accepted there, she will get to go for FREE (and gets nice tuition assistance if she goes elsewhere.)

Anyway, my young designer's comment about Dr. Putz's advice about learning math was, "She's what, 17? I hope by now she's learned all the math she's gonna need!" LOL

So, so true KimberleeJean. The difference being...Dr. Drew is actually A DOCTOR!!!! Wow. A medical doctor. Who sees patients and everything. And reads medical stuff. Like about addiction, overeating, anorexia, etc.

As you can tell I "Heart" Dr. Drew, and still listen to the LoveLine radio show every now and then. He should TOTALLY have a TV show. He's very good.

Anyhow, Dr. Philm-Phlam is largely insufferable. Overbearing, opinionated, and out of touch. He seems in over his head, and by sticking a personal agenda of "get real," which seems canned and not necessarily applicaple to every person who walks in the door, he manages to smoke screen the fact that he rarely deals with the root cause of the problem.

Changing behavior is actually very very difficult. A lot of destructive behavior is rooted in the emotional brain, rather than the rational brain. But Dr. Philm-Phlam seems to think you can just "decide" or "think your way out" of problems. typically, our brains don't work that way.

So today, did y'all think that DP stomped a new one on older-fatter-Vicadin woman, but with the cute-young-blond-bartender Ephedrine chick he practically petted her little hand and told her "poor sweet baby"? Just me? Okay.

As much as I love the Dr Phil snark, I have to admit the girl addicted to Ephedrine on today's repeat made me cry. I wonder how she did in rehab. Was there ever any update on her?

Also, the sex addict reminds me so much of an ex friend of mine. I tried to get her to find other things to find self-worth from, like volunteering or taking adult ed classes but she wouldn't.

ETA, there was an update with the Ephedrine girl. I guess I must have missed it. Update here: http://www.drphil.com/slideshow/slide.jhtm..._followups2.xml[

The little "update" at the end of the show today was a joke. The government banned ephedra. Oh really? If you didn't know, you're probably not taking any of it anyway! Pointless. He totally treated the two women differently, but I'm not sure it was cause one was larger than the other. The skinnier lady didn't have any kids which I think is a big thing with Shil, he really doesn't have any patience for people who are destructive at the detriment to the kids. Or he doesn't like larger people as much as skinny ones, which we've always suspected. Who knows!

If Phil doesn't largely stick with parenting shows (the one topic where most of us give him a 3.0) he's going to go down in flames. Apparently his meteoric rise in wealth is rivaling one Martha Stewart's and, well...

When Morton Downey, Jr was at the top of the heap, Phil Donahue was asked if he would change his format to keep up with Downey's confrontational, screaming trash meets and Donahue surmised that shows of that ilk would,"Fall of their own weight." (Downey did, although last I heard Springer was still airborne and circling wildly).

If Phil's books cover the remainder table and his diet bars fill the 99 cent store, it is possibly that he'll shed his credentials like sandy bathing trunks and let go with the scum fests: your neo-Nazi's, your incest celebrants, your Kluxers and your toothless couples with seventy-year age gaps. If it smells, it sells, and Phil loves the big bucks. Just hope, like, Geraldo, a studio guest riot doesn't cost him a chair to the face. I'd prefer a lower blow. Good times.

Phil... bathing trunks...

*shudder*

Oh yes. I'm mad all over again at the nice Italian lady's family. Virginia's daughter says, "I am so ashamed of my mother's weight." Granddaughter Ashley says, "I get so disgusted watching my grandmother eat." Then we see them all enjoying the big feast she's cooked for the family, followed by lots of fake "we're-only-worried-about-her-health" shinola on the show.

What Virginia needed to have was less skinny judgmental girls and more boys like Sonny Corleone to give them all a good smack for disrespecting the matriarch.

Ain't that the truth? Just for using the word "disgusted" the little upstart needed a good bounce. Where is the respect for this woman who loves and nurtures these ingrates? Same thing if Grandma smoked like an old Packer or drank tequila shots with her breakfast. Unhealthy or not, you will keep a civil tongue in your head when you speak to the elders.

And now, I'm off to fantasize about Jimmy Caan in his salad days, all macho and dangerous. Purr.

Oh poor Viriginia: what a shallow bunch of women she's stuck being related to. Was it the daughter or granddaughter who said "She embarrasses me." Like, seriously, the real problem is that someone who cares too much about what other people think. And it doesn't look like that someone is Virginia. Having a legitamate health concern is all well and good, but it was framed by that lady's family as though it was something that made their lives unbearable. Sheesh. My grandma is a flaming racist, and I find her attitude disgusting, but not her. You all are so right: respect your elders, for crying out loud. Shame on Phil for not calling them on their shallow little barbs.

Unfortunately, doing so would take time away from the Phil Hates Fat People show. As long as his words can be summed up in "well, stop eating!" he's happy. You're a psychologist, Phil. You're supposed to deal with wrong attitudes, not wrong eating habits.

You know, I'm working on a psych degree. I'm looking foward to writing my diet book.

Sock Puppet, as long as your book isn't secretly subtitled Hey Fatso! Lose Weight or Get Out of the Way So We Can Concentrate On All the Pretty People, it apparently won't get you your own tv show to remind people that being overweight is a horrible thing to do to other people.

God, not to go off too much on it, but that lady's family was utterly unsupportive. And he didn't call them on that either. Nope, dragging her on to tv to let Phil lecture a woman who's older than him like she was an errant child is not supportive. I don't think making unfairly judgemental comments like "she disgusts me" and "she embarrasses me" is exactly an indicator of fully accepting love. Good grief, the poor lady, I bet she at leasts finds comfort in the fact that her cooking doesn't say such cruel things. I'd ignore my family's comments, too, if they came gift wrapped in that kind of crap.

I agree that the grandmother's family was disrespectful of her, but eating cream cheese by the spoonful is kinda gross, though.

Edited to add that the closeup footage of her eating cream cheese was gross. Specifics...damn them....

The squarest shoulders that ever held up a pair of suspenders.

And an ass like a pair of firm honeydews, beseeching,"Feel us, cup us to see if we're ripe..."

As far as eating spoonfuls of cheese go, of course it's gross. So is taking your teeth out at dinner, farting as loud as a ceremonial trumpet or hocking a great loogie across the lawn. With few exceptions, though, most elderly people have worked hard, paid their dues, and deserve a little special treatment--which means the younger people should simply look the other way and remember to be grateful they have a grandparent's unconditional love. At Grandmom's wake, the cheese-by-the-spoon will be a sweet memory someone remembers as endearingly odd. Why wait? Cut her some slack while she's living.

I eat peanut butter out of the jar with a spoon (in private, heh) and I hope that if I ever get caught, I won't be dragged onto a talk show...

Now I have to watch The Godfather again to check out Sonny's honeydew butt.

Do they give off a hollow thumping noise if you tap them?

In the first 6 months of 2003, I lost 48 pounds. In the fall, DrPhil released his book and began the Weight Loss Challenge. After seeing the crapload of stuff these people received, I was pissed for about five minutes thinking if I had just waited a few months, I could've gotten an elliptical machine, a personal trainer, and tons of extraneous shit. Then I remembered how I'd be publicly humilated, yelled at by large, angry Texan, and probably thrown out because I was neither abused as a child, suffered horrible losses, nor had unsupportive people around me. I just ate too much and didn't exercise very often.

DrPhil's Start up bars and weight loss knick knacks now litter the bargain bins at my local grocery store.

And been browbeaten cause you ONLY lost 48 lbs!

That still pisses me off, SiameseCatLady! I can't believe DP berated those women for not losing enough weight!

Heh, "Happy Hill Farm." I still get the giggles every time I hear the name. It's like a cult compound or something.

Speaking of Happy Hill Farm, will Michael's tuiton continue to get comp'd if FUF2 is no longer featured? Will they comp him until he's an adult? He's doing well in a structed environment. Returning home, especially after shipping him off and Stacey having a new baby (replacement), could make him regress and turn to voilence.

Am I the only one who thinks that Chris should get a DNA test on Chandler? Chandler, to me, looks nothing like his daddy.

Word. If Bhodan's father were white, you just know that Stacey would of passed the infant off as Chris'.

Yes, but the first time they had a fight she would have screamed at Chris that he wasn't the father. That witch's desire to hurt people is even stronger than her desire to manipulate. Watching her stir up her peanut butter and syrup, I-only-crave-this-when-i'm-preggers, food in front of Brianna just infuriated me. I'm hating her so much more this time around.

After hearing the vitriol she saturates him with, you just know she brings up that her lovers were better swordsmen as well.

Today in my city we got people tired of being single. It truly amazes me how racist the african american lady was being. Everything that came out of her mouth was offensive and I truly believe the world is far too politically correct these days. It's fine to have whatever preference for whatever reason, but good night nurse at least have an open mind and don't go on the Dr. Phil show about it! Idiot. All of the people on today's show were stupid, but she made me the angriest.

Word about Chandler, I thought the exact same thing yesterday when they showed him being terrified of Michael. I don't really feel sorry for Chris though, he's such a little weiner and he lets Stacey crap all over him. She's the biggest bitch ever which makes me even more confused as to why he ever married her. She would buy herself candy and coke instead of bread for her family? Evil! I liked the audience gasps when DP said her major out loud. Hee!

I happened to catch part of the show today, and saw that it was a re-run that I had previously seen.

The first time I saw the show, I remember thinking that it was one of the more interesting episodes, by including some discussion on interracial dating itsn't seen on TV that often.

However, I was appalled and horrified by the Black man who vehemently stated that he'd never date another African-American woman. This guy can date whoever he wants to, but he has some serious identity issues when he makes those kind of blanket statements stereotyping all Black women on TV.

I'm sure his blood would boil if some White man or woman came on Dr. Phil and said, "I'll never hire another African-American man, because they're all too (fill in the blank: lazy, angry, stupid, confrontational, untrustworthy.)

Nor do I think he'd appreciate hearing a Black woman say that she'd never date another Black man because they are all violent thugs, and any other such blanket bullshit. He should have experienced enough of life in America to realize how bad this kind of pre-conceived ideas about any group are.

As a Black woman, I did have to laugh at this very average-looking man saying he'd turn down Halle Berry (I missed that part today, but I seem to remember him saying that last time.) As if someone as beautiful as Halle would even be interested in him. But if somehow we all were transported into a Bizarro world where someone who even approached Halle Berry's beauty would be attracted to a plain looking guy with a nasty attitude like his, you can bet he'd drop that attitude, quick. He'd be her bitch, in a second.

I'm married, and can only speak for myself. But I don't think any single Black women are shedding any tears over this poor excuse for a man.

More than anything, I have to wonder about the family members and friends in this man's circle. I'd love to know how they feel about him going on national TV and disprespecting all African-American women.



katymo, I'm not sure I'm following you. First you said that everything she said was offensive, then added the world is too politically correct. That seems a bit contradictory to me. Since her statements weren't weren't at all politically correct, it would seem that youd be more in favor of them, from what you said. I'm a bit confused by what you meant.

If you are referring to the Black woman who only wants to date Black men (and not her sister), I don't think this qualifies as racist. She wasn't putting White men or any other race down, she was just stating what a lot of people feel. Although interracial dating is on the rise, I believe most people still prefer to date within their own race. It is hard enough to have a successful relationship and race makes things more complicated. If you get married and have kids, the racial identity of those kids acn be a problem in society. Hell, in some parts of this country, even in 2004, you can even be putting yourself in physical danger for dating or marrying a person of another race. I applaud those who have the corage to face the obstacles when they truly love someone of a different race. But I don't think it's racist to not want to do that, it's just realistic.

The woman's sister could be more effectively argued as racist, because she seemed to be ruling out Black men as potential mates for her sister.

To Blocked Writer
The black woman who would only date black men stated that "I'd rather be alone than marry a white man. I'm suspicious of white men ... It would be hard for me to be intimate with a white male. Whites did rape, pillage and oppress my people. I kind of feel like it would be a betrayal to be with a white male." That is a quote from the show's website.

She will not date a white mean because they raps and oppressed her people! That sure sounds like racism to me. It is a very sweeping generalization of white people.