Make It So
Jan 26, 2004 @ 2:52 pm
From the "Proven Ground" thread: Was it only the effect of insulating the hull with trellium-D that made Vulcan's nutty?
Maybe. I could be wrong, but perhaps it has to do with what Phlox said about how trying to insulate the hull brought them into proximity with
large amounts of Trellium, causing the Thrilleric symptoms. That still wouldn't explain why it changed the other Vulcan crew (the ones who went to rescue T'Pol's old ship) into Vulcombies and Fitch, though. Also, didn't Phlox concoct a serum to counteract the effects of Trellium upon T'Pol? Perhaps she's still on the cocktail.
keckler
Jan 26, 2004 @ 2:56 pm
Thrilleric symptoms.
It took me a minute on that one. I was like, "Wait, they had a name for that -- oooh! Hee!"
Schwartzvald
Feb 12, 2004 @ 4:24 pm
T'Pol's tryst with Trip has me totally tongue-tied. O.K., not really, but the alliteration is so appealing. This is going to be fun.
roffle
Feb 14, 2004 @ 7:36 pm
Only saw her thumbs ("Harbinger") and even vulcans like manicures, but in space,
- 1) nobody can hear you scream
- 2) you cut your nails close to the fingers
If a panel shorts out or there's a hull breach or Phlox's butterfly vampire bat escapes and you're the closest, you dig in and take care of it (or get drained by the bat). Blalock brought good stuff this week, her and Trineer and Keating and Culp, but the fingernails thing.... like Malcolm and his Major Boytoy, it's a bit anal to get stuck on this but it was incongruous....
screamin
Feb 15, 2004 @ 8:11 pm
I didn't see her nails, so I'm not sure just how long they are, but I really must say something in defense of nails that have slightly grown out (though not ridiculously long). I've found that nails are very useful implements for delicate manipulation as substitute tweezers, and even as screwdrivers on occasion, so they can be quite useful in the situations you describe with the sparking pannels (as well as last-ditch weapons in grappling with the vampire bat and in clinging desperately to the doorway as air rushing through the hull breach threatens to suck you out).
miss_tess
Feb 25, 2004 @ 12:01 am
Okay, I was thinking about the nail thing and it suddenly came to me....didn't T'Pau have really long fingernails when she was working to bring Spock back in Star Trek 3? {I seem to remember thinking Wow! She could kill with those things.}
Maybe Vulcan females are allowed this one logical beauty treatment.
I was also wondering about T'Pol's true feelings. We know Sim seemed to bring out her emotions. He wasn't shy about how he felt about her and let her know every chance he got. She seemed really taken with him. And she made that special effort to say goodbye to him. Then, when Trip got back she avoided him to the point that even he noticed. Was she trying to control the feelings she had for Trip? Or was she pained at losing Sim?
So does she have feelings for Sim or Trip or both? It seems odd that she confused Trip and Sim when she was talking about being Trip being attracted to her. "He said he had feelings for me"....shouldn't it have been "He said you have feelings for me." ? Of course, then he might not have had that tinge of jealousy in his voice.
Cleo256
Feb 25, 2004 @ 1:33 am
shouldn't it have been "He said you have feelings for me." ?
But that's not accurate. Sim said he had feelings for T'Pol. Those feelings might have also been Trip's, but that's speculation. Vulcans are nothing if not precise.
miss_tess
Feb 29, 2004 @ 12:34 am
shouldn't it have been "He said you have feelings for me." ?
But that's not accurate. Sim said he had feelings for T'Pol. Those feelings might have also been Trip's, but that's speculation. Vulcans are nothing if not precise.
True, Vulcans are extremely precise which is why I couldn't understand why T'Pol brought up this interesting bit of information in conversation in the manner that she did. When she and Trip were talking about attraction, she said "I think you are mistaken about who is attracted to whom." Trip asked, "Are you saying that I'm attracted to you?" To which T'Pol replied, "I don't need to say it
you already have."
It seems stange that T'Pol was such a stickler when Sim tried to pass off Trip's memories as his own, yet used Sim's statement as Trip's declaration. (Would she have corrected herself if Trip hadn't called her on it?) Sim was not Trip, his experiences made him a completely different person. Sim said he wasn't sure if the feelings he had for T'Pol were his or Trip's. So how can a Vulcan who is so precise, use these statements in a logical argument?
Lotamoxie
Mar 4, 2004 @ 6:25 pm
I hope that the writers are going somewhere with T'Pol's non-Vulcan behavior. Either the P'Nar syndrome (spelling?) or exposure to Trellium-D, or something else as long as it is explained. As far as the latest episode Azati Prime, it will be interesting to see what happens when and if T’Pol ever “comes to her senses” and realizes that she is, at least in part, responsible for the near destruction of the ship and the presumed deaths of some crew members since she completely zoned out and was no help on the bridge. Not to mention having sex with Trip in Harbinger.
keckler
Mar 4, 2004 @ 6:46 pm
But she's not having constant exposure to Trellium-D, is she? I've been thinking it's Pa'nar Syndrome.
frenchtoast
Mar 4, 2004 @ 7:43 pm
Mr. Toast mentioned Pa'nar Syndrome last night after her breakdown. I'm wondering if the anomalies of the Expanse are accelerating the rate of the disease.
Lotamoxie
Mar 5, 2004 @ 10:38 am
She was exposed to Trellium-D previously and was strongly affected by it. I don't know how much I'd trust a Doctor who thought that Archer getting sprayed by a toxin last week wasn't serious -- even when his behaviour was becoming increasing obsessive and paranoid. It could also be the Pa'Nar syndrome that she has. Though you would think the Doctor would be treating/monitoring her (see above). They haven't mentioned it since, though. Sometimes the writers remember what they wrote in previous episodes. Or it could be something else in the expanse that they haven't detected yet that is affecting her.
My point was that I am interested in seeing her reaction when and if she comes to her Vulcan senses and realizes that not only did she have sex with Trip, she was completely and totally useless during the Xindi attack and she was in command She just sat there and really didn't give any orders. Not even any evasive manuevers. Plus, most of the senior officers (including the Captain and Trip) have seen her get emotional or completely freak out.
belsum
Mar 5, 2004 @ 11:22 am
she was completely and totally useless during the Xindi attack
It's her tendency to fall to pieces and be totally useless of late that made me not notice she was imaginary when Phlox was hallucinating her.
jen
Mar 6, 2004 @ 3:02 pm
What offends me most about T'Pol's non-Vulcan behaviour isn't necessarily the behaviour itself, but rather how she's dealing with it. We've seen Vulcan's struggle with their emotional control before, but they always struggled is specifically Vulcan ways. Vulcans are culturally all about emotional control, so when other Vulcan characters have had control issues, we've always seen them working through their meditation rituals and such. In other words, still behaving like Vulcans. We've never had a Vulcan hiding in the ready room sobbing before. That's what's getting on my last remaining nerve, and why, even when they reveal the plot point of crazy T'Pol, I won't be satisfied. Unless it's that T'Pol is a Romulan spy--although a spy would have to do a better job at faking Vulcan behaviour than this to get by.
Gilmel
Mar 6, 2004 @ 8:33 pm
We've never had a Vulcan hiding in the ready room sobbing before.
We've never had a female Vulcan before.
jen
Mar 7, 2004 @ 1:30 am
And that would be the crux of the problem (for me, at least). Stupid Bermaga.
LadyBunbury
Mar 8, 2004 @ 3:29 am
Actually, we have had a Vulcan hiding in a briefing room sobbing once before; in "The Naked Time", Spock clutching at a computer terminal and weeping because he never told his mother he loved her. Of course, he was under the influence of the "Naked Time" virus at the time - what's that called, anyway? - but the show was all about suppressed emotions coming to the surface. So T'pol might be in a similar situation if there's a wonky thing making her act all emotional, in which case she's not doing any differently than Spock did.
I mean, yeah, Spock's all with the half-human, but he always went extra-Vulcan to compensate, or at least, that's how it seemed to me.
Gilmel
Mar 8, 2004 @ 5:41 pm
The problem I have with that, is that before when (male) Vulcans got overly emotional, it was resolved in one episode and then we moved on. Yes, it's often annoying for situations like that to be fixed so easily, but at least they weren't dragging it out. We've had the irrationally emotional female before (throughout history, really). I don't want to have to keep watching it again and again, whatever name or face or excuse or plot contrivance reason they give for it.
pennyq
Mar 8, 2004 @ 8:33 pm
Not that I'm particularly happy about seeing another overly-emotional-female protrayed, but I'm actually glad that they didn't do a resolve-it-in-one-episode plot for this. I think Star Trek has a history of doing that way too often, and I give credit to ENT for not resolving people's injuries/state-of-mental-health in one episode, and actually mentioning them again (think Malcolm after his leg was stuck with the Romulan mine stick and Trip dealing with his sister's death).
I also think (and I'm putting a lot of faith in Bermaga so they had better not let me down) that they have a point to T'Pol's behavior. It could be a way to show how a human and a Vulcan get together. They have to explain hybrids like Spock somehow, and it's the job of ENT as a Star Trek prequel to do that. So hopefully they're doing that with T'Pol and Trip (although I was hoping to see a slightly slower progression of their relationship before they had sex, but I guess we can't have everything.) They'd still better have a damn good reason for her behavior, but I don't think it's without purpose.
I hope I'm not offending any T'Pol/Quantum shippers out there, but honestly, every time an episode suggests any sort of romantic feelings between them, it gives me the heebeegeebees. I'm not sure why.
Gilmel
Mar 8, 2004 @ 8:48 pm
They have to explain hybrids like Spock somehow, and it's the job of ENT as a Star Trek prequel to do that. So hopefully they're doing that with T'Pol and Trip
I'm not sure how the two here are related. Spock's parents were Sarek and Amanda (right?), not Trip and T'Pol. And isn't it canon that Spock was the first half-human, half-Vulcan? (I'm not all that clear on TOS canon.) Why is it the responsibility of ENT to show a human and a Vulcan getting together, as opposed to more global issues like showing how the Federation was formed?
I'll try to make my point about T'Pol's ongoing emotional problem better than I did before. When Spock was acting out, we found out in that episode why he was acting out. Then it got resolved. With Malcolm's injury or Trip's grief, we also knew about the reasons for those at the outset and followed that reason into other episodes. We've been given no reason for T'Pol's ongoing irrational behavior. We've been trying to fanwank it so that we can comfort ourselves that there
is a reason, but that's been left up to us. We've not been reminded in previouslies of her syndrome, and Phlox has called no attention to it. As such, for many many episodes, T'Pol's behavior has been presented to us as normal for her. Not explained, not resolved, nothing. That's a huge difference to me.
pennyq
Mar 8, 2004 @ 9:12 pm
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about this. I didn't think it was canon that Spock was the 1st human-Vulcan hybrid. And it's not as if Sarek and Amanda were ever explained, nor will they ever be explained. So here's their chance to answer our "How might that have worked? question.
As for T'Pol's behavior, we know from "Azati Prime" that something is clearly wrong with her. Hell, even Trip finally recognized it. Although, the 6 weeks of waiting to find out what IS annoying.
zooropa
Mar 8, 2004 @ 9:25 pm
As such, for many many episodes, T'Pol's behavior has been presented to us as normal for her. Not explained, not resolved, nothing.
I'll answer this over in the spoiler thread if you're interested.
Gilmel
Mar 8, 2004 @ 9:39 pm
I'll answer this over in the spoiler thread if you're interested.
Nope. I'm a total spoilerphobe. But thanks. :)
Also, right now it doesn't matter to me what is going to happen with T'Pol in upcoming episodes. That hasn't happened yet, and my assessments must be based on what we've already been shown because that's the order in which the story is being told.
zooropa
Mar 8, 2004 @ 9:52 pm
Nope. I'm a total spoilerphobe. But thanks. :)
I don't blame you. I was inadvertently spoiled for the next couple of episodes, but I don't want to know any more.
my assessments must be based on what we've already been shown because that's the order in which the story is being told.
You're right. If T'Pol's behavior is actually a story arc and not just bad Vulcan characterization by the writers, then they haven't done a very good job of reassuring the audience of that fact.
cuiusquemodi
Apr 2, 2004 @ 10:42 pm
I was just watching the TNG episode, Gambit, and there was a Vulcan member of Vulcan Security (I didn't write down the Vulcan name!) named T'Paal, pronounced T'Pol. I doubt if it's the same one. Just thought it interesting.
Supernuke
Apr 3, 2004 @ 11:36 pm
I have noticed that in TNG episodes, many Vulcans have names sounding like T'Pol.
Silja
Apr 4, 2004 @ 8:04 am
cuiusquemodi, it might have been covered already but I remember having read somewhere that T’Pol was originally supposed to be a young T’Pau. However, her name was changed to T’Pol for some reason. I believe it was for purely philosophical reasons, namely money, but exactly why I don’t recall.
cuiusquemodi
Apr 6, 2004 @ 9:34 pm
Copyright. Had they called her T'Pau, they would have to had paid royalties to the writer of the original episode with her in it everytime someone mentioned her. And being the First Officer, that would happen fairly often.
Cleo256
Apr 6, 2004 @ 9:49 pm
There was also the stated reason that they couldn't put her in jeopardy, since we'd know she's have to survive to TOS time. But since they've shown no hesitation about putting Earth in jeopardy... Let's say they were being political and couldn't just say "we don't want to pay previous Trek writers any money".
And since I took the time to look it up, "Amok Time", the episode that introduced T'Pau, was written by Theodore Sturgeon, which was a pseudonym for Edward Hamilton Waldo, who died in 1985. So I guess the royalties would go to his estate.
belsum
Apr 7, 2004 @ 2:59 pm
Theodore Sturgeon eh? I've got some of his books on my old paperbacks shelf. Interesting to know he wrote some Trek. I'll have to investigate further....
Stay on topic you say? Um, well, I noticed the T'Pol mention in Gambit as well. I wanked it to mean that it became so common of a name (due to her obvious fame after being the first Vulcan on a human ship cakes) that Tallera would pick that as a fake name as quickly as I might pick Sarah.
Edited to ask: Hey Keckler, may I start a writers thread or would you prefer that elsewhere?
keckler
Apr 7, 2004 @ 8:44 pm
They can be started here (in the crew forum), I guess it would make the most sense. But I don't think we need a separate thread for every writer, one thread to discuss all should be sufficient.
AresCupid
Sep 13, 2004 @ 12:59 am
'atta girl, even Jolene Blalock hates T'Pol's so-called "development."
TrekTodayBlalock Unhappy With Vulcan Development
By Michelle
September 11, 2004 - 6:01 PM
In a recent interview, Jolene Blalock expressed dismay at the characterization of T'Pol and of Vulcans in general on Star Trek: Enterprise.
"I personally believe that T'Pol should have more of her Vulcan culture," she told Cinefantastique (via TrekWeb). "I think that T'Pol could be okay with being Vulcan, she shouldn't have to want to be Vulcan. In the dialogue...why is it that when we're trying to teach each other something, all of our analogies involve Earth lore? Don't our cultures have their own lore that might make for good messages?"
T'Pol's obsession with exploring humanity is particularly troubling to Blalock because she believes it runs counter to the values of the original series, of which she was a fan. "I don't believe she should be so desperate to be like everyone else, because the original Star Trek, which I grew up with, had a very simple message that I took from it, and that is that not everyone is like me, and I'm not perfect, and nobody's perfect, and that's okay. That really helped me," she said.
Though she thinks Enterprise's concepts "are amazing", Blalock had words of criticism for the dialogue and found inconsistency in the development of Vulcan themes. In 'Shadows of P'Jem', they made this huge story about how Vulcans were undermining Starfleet and had some kind of agenda, but they never went to readdress it," she noted. "Then there's this episode in which T'Pol gets sick, terminally ill, and they never readdress it. There's the characteristic where Vulcans don't eat food with their hands, and yet they'll write scenes where T'Pol is eating popcorn at a movie or Trip will bring T'Pol a peach. It's just so strange to me."
The full interview is in the newest issue of Cinefantastique. These excerpts are posted at TrekWeb.
Rhea13
Sep 16, 2004 @ 9:28 am
You mean... they should have continuity? That's just crazy-talk. ;)
Gilmel
Sep 16, 2004 @ 1:16 pm
Must be all that Trellium D.
pennyq
Oct 20, 2004 @ 3:33 pm
Random question: Does T'Pol eat dairy? I vaguely recall her mentioning way at the beginning that she doesn't consume animal products, but wouldn't pecan pie normally be made with something dairy?
tothemax
Oct 20, 2004 @ 3:38 pm
The woman is a CRACK WHORE. The vegetarian thing doesn't seem so important by contrast, so I'm sure she eats just about anything.
pennyq
Oct 20, 2004 @ 3:46 pm
She ate the pecan pie way back at the beginning of the first season, so she wasn't a CRACK WHORE yet.
nelamm
Oct 20, 2004 @ 4:19 pm
Well, all mammals (which would include Vulcans, as is immediately obvious when considering T'Pol) consume dairy at some point by definition, so she can rationalize that.
pennyq
Oct 20, 2004 @ 4:28 pm
I don't know why it didn't occur to me before, but what about eggs?
Make It So
Oct 28, 2004 @ 7:55 am
This UberEmotionalT'Pol is getting a little old for me. It was cool at first, but now, T'Pol is either on the verge of tears or about to fly into a rage in almost every other scene. I'm not sure if it's the director's call, or if this is simply Jolene's interpretation of the character. but I'd rather the emotional outbursts be fewer and far between. That would make them more entertaining as opposed to tiring, imo.
keckler
Oct 28, 2004 @ 9:52 am
Random question: Does T'Pol eat dairy? I vaguely recall her mentioning way at the beginning that she doesn't consume animal products, but wouldn't pecan pie normally be made with something dairy?
Only if the crust made is a "rich" pate brisee and therefore includes eggs. I've never made it that way but there would be butter or lard in the crust regardless.
And if you ask me, Jolene could use a little of both right now. I think her legs are freakish.
Make It So
Oct 28, 2004 @ 10:40 am
Word, man. We should start calling her T'Wiggy.
keckler
Oct 28, 2004 @ 12:16 pm
For more than one reason.
Make It So
Oct 31, 2004 @ 8:01 pm
I've found it fun these days to keep a list of T'Pol's myriad of emotional outbursts per episode. In the "Borderland" ep:
1. When Quantum gave her that compass as a gift, T'Pol was all wet around the eyes as if she was about to burst into tears.
2. When she was trying to comfort Ensign Bill Paxton, she was shaking like she was about to lose it herself.
Cleo256
Nov 1, 2004 @ 2:33 am
She is still a CRACK WHORE. I think these are Blalock trying to preserve that until it gets resolved.
nelamm
Nov 1, 2004 @ 11:48 am
The uniform thing bugs me to no end. She's been commissioned, she wears a rank and, I believe, a ship patch...so why no uniform?!?
tothemax
Nov 1, 2004 @ 12:25 pm
I'm right there with you, nelamm. I saw the commander pips right away and I could not believe TPTB had the nerve to keep her in the catsuit. I hoped against hope that Quantum was giving her a uniform instead of the anvilicious compass, a bit farfetched but no more so than a friggin' commissioned officer wearing a catsuit. The least the TPTB could have done was to change her uniform into a catsuit, which worked for Jadziah on DS9.
pennyq
Nov 1, 2004 @ 4:20 pm
I was going to ask if anyone could possibly fanwank an explanation for the catsuit. I got nothing. Do they honestly think that the audience tunes in every week in order to see Jolene Blalock's emaciated figure in a skin tight catsuit?
And she was supposed to get a uniform. In Countdown Trip said something to the effect of, "I'd love to see the look on Soval's face when he sees you in a Starfleet uniform. Puh-leeze let me be there." Grrr.
cuiusquemodi
Nov 1, 2004 @ 5:38 pm
Maybe she's waiting for Sloval to been with her and Trip for it to debut?
Edited to clarify: Maybe she will debut her Starfleet uniform when Sloval and Trip are in the same room.
Pippin
Nov 2, 2004 @ 5:45 pm
I agree with everyone - the catsuit has got to go. And I am getting sick and tired of the justification used by TPTB; namely, to appeal to their fanbase (read: horny pre-adolescents). Not everyone who watches the show is 12 years old, and the advertisers who buy the ads bear my contention out. I don't think many teenage males (or even 20 - 25 year olds) are going to be buying SUVs, making decisions as to what courier their company is going to use - the UPS ads are aimed at businesses, not individual consumers) or servers for their business needs (again, the IBM ads are aimed at business users).
I could understand if the character were a Deltan or Betazoid who had different attitudes about sex, or some freaky-deaky civilian who didn't want to wear the uniform, but T'Pol is a Vulcan. Her clothing is in no way logical (or even comfortable; I think those PJs she wears would not keep her warm).
(Slightly OT: You ever notice that TPTB are always on about how the Trek audience is not all basement-dwelling dweebs - until it comes to the female characters and their clothes? Then it's all about "appealing to the fanbase", which I think is BS of the highest order. It's about their liking of T&A, pure and simple.)
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