Aw, and we had gotten off to such a nice start!

Anyway, restarting the Asian-Soap thread for those who expressed interest.

(I am currently nailbiting over the state of poor Lousy Father Figure Na Yangpal's health on "Infamous Chill Sisters," and have ordered "Hwangjini" off e-bay. Sort of nailbiting over the arrival of that one too.)

YAY!

Anthrophile, I actually caught an episode of "Hwangjini" on one of the Korean channels this weekend. It looks good, but it's probably not going to be a regular, schedule my life around show for me. My sister referred to it as a Korean "Memoirs of a Geisha" - which may not be accurate, but the melodrama was in full effect (suicide, undying love, love triangles, auctioning off of virginity - all in one episode!). Great production values, though.

And going back to "Infamous Chill Sisters" (could there be a more ridiculous sounding name?) - without giving anything away, I'd like to complain that the series' ending is very, very abrupt. We saw the "Last Episode" title card, and went "What?!?" Just very odd.

I don't particularly think that Yangpal is a lousy father figure - he's just Korean. Compared to some of the other fathers and father figures on other shows, he's right in the middle, I think. Not the best, but not exactly lousy either.

I popped in, but popped back out due to spoilers. Since we're all watching these at different times, is there any way we can talk about what we saw without ruining it for everyone else? Or would just everything be a spoiler?

We had spoilers? I tried to be as vague as possible. I figured that as long as we didn't go into details, major themes would be okay. What do y'all want to do?

I figured I was supposed to take it as lousy when his own family started berating him about it. :-)

But you're right, I've seen far worse.

Well, how far apart are we? I guess we need to define which shows we're talking about first. I'm on episode 43 of "Chill Sisters" (I'm sure it sounds better in Korean. :-D). The others -- well, "Hwangjini" I've been watching on YouTube at work, which means it's taken me about a week to get through episode one and the first ten minutes of episode 2.


(Oh, and I hated "Memoirs of a Geisha." Found it EXTREMELY "Mary-Sue." The book; couldn't stomach the prospect of the film and never went to see, although I still might at some point. Not hating this one quite so much. Possibly because I can't understand a word. Except "mother.")

I think I was more uncomfortable with "Memoirs of a Geisha" than hating it - but then again, the movie looked like ass, so I passed. Like I said, "Hwangjini" reminded me of the major themes and some of the specific events from the book that I remember, but that's based on the one episode that I caught.



See, I took that as a sign that he couldn't have been that bad - they were able to tell him that he was a little tyrant of a father. Not that he really takes that to heart, but you know...

As for discussing without spoilers, I think we can agree to be generally respectful of what people are watching, but there's not really a way to discuss shows if we have to spoiler tag everything, especially for shows that have ended eons ago. I'm obviously not going to do a play by play of Samsoon, since I know that Anthrophile hasn't watched it yet, but would it be considered a spoiler if I mention that she's a baker and that there's a love triangle?

Maybe we should stick to general themes? Such as that there are ALWAYS love triangles (sometimes love quadrangles), and that it's never really misleading since you know who's going to end up with who within the first couple of episodes? That it's how they become a couple and not who they become a couple with?

Anybody watch "Love Story in Paris"?

Themes that keep cropping up:
Liver transplants!
Adoption! (Which is EVIL!)
Weddings! (Okay, that's not unique to K-Drama.)
Food!

The food thing is interesting -- a friend of mine and I were discussing it over the phone recently. Food is a universal thing, especially food as an expression of love, friendship, hospitality, etc. What struck us was that this attitude seems so ubiquitous in K-Drama that they don't even have to make a point of mentioning it, like a given part of the culture. Which led to a discussion of Dae Jang Geum (famous female doctor in ancient/feudal Korea, and I MUST hunt down this DVD set!) and the idea of food as medicine in Korean culture.

And of course, nobody tells the truth when six more episodes of dramatic pausing can be milked from an unnecessary lie. Wait -- that's not unique to K-Drama either!

(And I am disturbed by the adoption thing. It's always a source of trauma. I guess this isn't unique to Korea either -- before the sixties in the U.S. adoptions were secret from the birth mother and often hidden from the adoptee.)

I am so hooked on this stuff.

"Memoirs of a Geisha" would not have bothered me at all if it had been a true or "true" story. But as a work of fiction, it was entirely controllable by the author, yet he still fell into the Mary Sue trap. The protagonist is essentially perfect, according to her own words, and the narrative encourages us to root for her and rejoice in her triumph, even when her actions hurt other people. It's all chalked up, over and over again, to "everyone is just jealous because I'm so nice and talented and perfect and have Extra Special Eyes."

I was rooting for Pumpkin. :-)

I'll say this for it, though -- it's well written and gripping. I was never bored. (And part of me still wants to see the film.)

Continuing themes:
Cancer!
Unintended implied incest! (Not intentional because of the ADOPTION!)
Rich girl of horrible parents rescued by poor but earnest young man
Poor girl of loving parents rescued by rich and somewhat ass-ish young man
Girl sacrifices relationship for the betterment of her man

Seriously, the implied incest thing has been bothering me for a while - most of the time, it's faux incest because it's stepsiblings, mistaken identity so not really siblings, half-siblings separated at birth, etc., and they're usually torn asunder anyway. But, there was a show in 2006 (I don't know the English title of it, but it probably had Heaven in its title), where the implication was that the main couple were actually half-siblings or such, brought together by their mother (who had not raised the daughter). There was a huge brouhaha, if I remember correctly.

[/b]Anthrophile[b], the food as medicine thing is crazy. We watch regular Korean TV all the time, not just soap operas, and almost all the morning shows (the equivalent to Today) or women's talk shows (kind of like the View) have segments dedicated to food and how certain foods can prevent (or cure) cancer, diabetes, shortness, lack in stamina, near sightedness, etc.

Cancer - has anyone watched "My Rosy Life" (I remember the title as La Vie en Rose, but KBS America has it listed as that)? Choi JinShil's triumphant return from the scandal of being an abused wife in real life as an abused and abandoned wife who gets CANCER? Lord, that was melodrama at its finest. There was a wedding, definitely food as medicine, cancer, and a love triangle - so many recurring themes.

There's also that "grab a women roughly by the arm and shove her into a vehicle of some kind -- this means love" thing.

I found this, which delighted me -- Kim Ah Joong, who played Jongnam on "Bizarre Bunch," is starring in a film, 200 Pounds Beauty, that airs in Korea soon (either it will air soon, or it aired in late 2006, not sure). Unfortunately it's one of those "thin actress in a fat suit" affairs, but I'm having a lot of fun watching her be assertive (after 140 plus episodes of wanting to shake her).

(I'm totally a fan. :-D)

--She sings again
--Behind the scenes of "Bizarre." (The poor poster seems to have mistaken this for fact.) (Also -- see! Assertive! In a way)
--More from the movie
--Here in a sketch comedy show called "Hey Hey Hey." I actually recommend watching the whole of episode 4; it cracked me up even without subtitles...

Isn't that a movie?

I love the "grab a woman roughly and shove her to show her how much you love her" theme - nothing says "well-adjusted society that respects women" like expressing love through physical intimidation. Drives me nuts EVERY TIME. You know, I'd really like to see the girl just open the door and jump out, or knee the dude in the groin to get away. Grrr. I do find it fascinating how female audience members are supposed to find that all wonderfully romantic.

Which?

The grabbing thing -- this particularly ticked me off in "Bizarre Bunch." Sukhyun behaved towards Jongnam in such a way that I really did think they were consciously taking this into a domestic violence arc. (And he continued this for several episodes.)

Yet everywhere online and off, I found people going squee! over it, and how tall and cute and wonderful he was. My mother was doing this. I pointed out the major problems I had with it, and her response was "But she loves him." Whuh?!

I mean, She was on her way to a marriage meeting with Inbeom, who was unfailingly nice to her, never called her names, taught her languages, encouraged her in her career aspirations, and bought her a ring and a house. Okay, the house he had anyway. BUT -- Sukhyun did call her names; bossed her around whenever he was feeling inadequate or that life was unfair (she did bitch back at him rather often, so that was nice); never (or at least I don't recall) told her she was doing a good job; and encouraged (not quite bullied, but close) her to go against the wishes of the entire family while failing to stand up for her against his mother, even though she was getting all the blame and he was getting off scott free.

THEN, when she's on the way to her marriage meeting, he shoves her in the car; drives off to another town while she screams, calls him names, and tries to grab the wheel and crash the car; sequesters her in a shack in a small fishing town; takes away her purse and cell phone so she can't call home, and stands by while she tries to walk back in bad weather, knowing they're a million miles away and she won't get far. Okay that last one she did, but he still annoyed me. And he took her engagement ring.

Oh yeah, and has sex with her.

Then when his mom shows up angry and slaps Jongnam across the face -- yet again -- he stands by and takes it -- yet again. It took a threatened abortion for him to stand up for her.

Whoo! I forgot how mad I was. :-) I do have mostly good memories of the show.

My best consolation, though, is that now, he's "Ilhan" and is being treated crappily by Michill on "Chill Sisters."

Anthrophile, store up that love for Ilhan because... yeah.

Yeah, everyone squees over how awesome it is that the "hero" orders the girl around and all that, and all I can think about is how that does NOT bode well for their future happiness. I didn't watch "Bizzarre Bunch" but what you describe sounds SO familiar and so repulsive. People, it's not LOVE, it's KIDNAPPING! Gah.

Ooh, that's another recurring theme - the heroine going to a matchmaking meeting, the hero finding out, then bursting in to drag her out bodily. In Samsoon, this happens REPEATEDLY, with the same poor dude. Samsoon meets a nice guy through her mother's introduction, but is dragged out from their first meeting by Samshik, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE NOT DATING AT THE TIME. It's just for his own amusement. She runs into the same guy again after being rejected by a balding middle aged dude at another matchmaking session, has a lovely time with him, which is then interrupted AGAIN by Samshik, who claims that Samsoon is pregnant. Months later, when she thinks that she's been abandoned by Samshik, she runs into the nice guy at the bus stop by accident. They agree to go on a date - which is a sign of closure and of moving on for her - which is rudely interrupted by Samshik returning and stalking her. But you know, that's okay because he really loves her. Really.

I always wonder why it's considered squee-worthy for the heroes to act like such pricks. I mean, if you like someone, shouldn't you act nicely towards them?

You know, I think K-Dramas kind of institutionalize the whole "all women want bad boys, and good guys finish last" idea.

You know, that stalker dude, "Hanam," from "Chill Sisters" is also showing shades of Sukhyun, what with interfering in other people's marriage plans and wrist grabbing...

(But you know, I haven't seen nearly this level of obnoxiousness in Korean films. Just the soaps. And our soaps are ... well, some of them have infuriated me too. So, food for thought.)

On a lighter note, I totally want Haejin Park (Hanam) and the Joowon Go (Ilhan) to play brothers at some point. Park looks markedly younger, but they have such similar builds and mannerisms. From a distance I often mistake them. It could be the hair. :-)

(Oh, and Seolchil's robotic fiance cracks me the hell up. He may be the best actor on the show. Unless he's an automaton like that in real life, in which case... spooky.)

I know - I love Seolchil's "fiance". How he kept a straight face through all of those scenes, I'll never know.

But yeah, what is up with the stalking = true love thing? I can't tell you how frustrating it is to watch these shows (and damn it if I don't watch) and feel like it glamorizes really unhealthy ideas about love and relationships. And true about American soaps being a little demented as well - the idea of Luke & Laura has repulsed me forever - but there's just something so infantilizing about the way love is expressed through control by the men in these shows.

I think the guy that plays Ilhan has all the personality of a plate of fish, so... yeah.

Is this where one would go to talk about "My Lovely Samsoon"? Has anyone seen this?

What happened to my earlier posts on this thread??

Yep - I just referred to it not a few posts above yours. :-) It's my favorite K-Drama so far.

And pinkpoppies, I think your previous posts might have gotten deleted when everything in the forums for December 13 and on got purged and we had to recreate the thread from square one (see the Mod note at the top of the forum list).

Did anyone watch Super Rookie? I loved this soap/drama, I really liked the business setting of LK in the drama. And I also loved the female protagonist's more independent personality.

Someone watched Super Rookie (and I just read that there's supposed to be a sequel coming out), but it wasn't me. I find Eric irritating as all get out, so I try to avoid him in all of his various manifestations. I tried to like him, I did - I watched all the episodes of Phoenix, despite his wretched, wretched acting, but that's enough of my time.

Just started watching Snow Queen, with Sung Yuri and Hyun Bin (the male lead from My Lovely Samsoon). It's interesting, sticks with the same themes, but pretty well acted. And I think Hyun Bin looks SO much better with his hair longer and not pointing to the skies.

Okay, I've just seen the Michill/Yangpal discussion and dinner, and I'm all teary now. It was lovely. And I have to take back my Lousy Father Figure epithet from before. Can I still call him "Damn Clueless? :-)

Can't wait for the fallout from the draft notice.

Feels like things are wrapping up a bit, which makes me a little sad.

I have to eBay "Samsoon" -- I want to be in on the discussion! :-)

So, I'm starting to watch K-Dramas. I'm Korean-American and know the language, but not very well (just simple conversational). I remember watching one or two when I was younger [forced by my parents], but I just didn't get the culture. (As I grew up in an American environment with no Korean or Asian friends.) I am now watching, mostly to improve my language skills.

I've seen "Love Story in Harvard." This was just hard to watch. I couldn't get subtitles so I didn't get the nuances of the story. But the Korean people speaking English in the beginning? Cringeworthy.

I am now watching Goong aka Palace aka Princess Hours. This show is way better. I just had a marathon of like 10 hrs yesterday and plan on watching the final five this week. Though I don't understand the modified modern cultural. Aren't the leads like 19 or something? They act much younger like they're actually 14.

Is there not a lot of kissing, etc in k-dramas?

Unraveled, I'm been having kind of the same reaction towards the characters' maturity in K-drama, and I really don't know what to think in terms of how realistic it might be. People are saying things like "my first crush" and "my first kiss" at age 28, for example, and on "Chill Sisters" just recently one sister was embarassed that her dad caught her boyfriend kissing her... on the forehead. He didn't even see it. They're engaged, and this is the hottest thing they've done. (No, I tell a lie -- they made out in an elevator once, but that had more "man reclaiming his territory" connotations, and even then I think more cheek than lip was involved.)

On the other hand, I've begun reading manwha, and they depict teens being much more mature and experienced than this. I suspect the same of Korean films -- that characters are portrayed as more mature -- although the only one I've seen so far that even came close to focusing on teenagers/just out of teens kids was "Take Care of My Cat." ("Asako in Ruby Shoes" had young people, but they were Japanese -- the Korean characters were older, I think.)

I wonder if it's just that soaps have to be "sweeter" and "cuter" -- maybe they're meant to air during prime time restrictions or something? I've seen a similar thing in Japanese soaps -- they're harder-core and more graphic than the Korean soaps I've seen so far, dealing with crime and abuse and whatnot, but even the soaps are still much softer than the movies or manga (even manga meant for young girls features teen sex and virginity issues and whatnot, even if it's not directly shown.)

I think the depiction of sex, sexuality, and maturity in K-Drama is rapidly changing. I remember watching series upon series where there was absolutely no kissing, then there started to be awkward pecks on the cheeks at the finale (kind of a ta-da! moment), and then recently, more frank depictions of kissing and physical expressions of love between adults (teenagers are still a bit iffy). I mean, the kissing and the pdas are still really, really awkwardly staged (Anthrophile, I think you'll see a lot more of the awkward kissing soon - made me want to write a memo on the finer points of screen kissing), but at least it's there. I think Samsoon actually was really frank in its depiction of healthy (and unhealthy) sexuality - consenting adults whose desire for each other arises out of their growing attraction. There's an absolutely HILARIOUS episode where Samshik goes on a late night hunt for condoms, because Samsoon refuses to sleep with him without them.

I do think a lot of it does have to do with the fact that the audience is made up of all ages. Korean movies tend to be a lot more explicit (and graphic - shudder). I'm not sure what the standards and practices guidelines are for Korea, but it does seem like most of the dramas are for general viewing. They do have little warnings or disclaimers on them if the subject matter is going to be a little more explicit. Unraveled, I'm pretty sure that Goong was labeled as dealing with mature subject matter and not for viewing by under 15 year olds. I'm not sure WHY as it's super, super tame, but that's the way it goes. Also, although the leads are supposed to be 19, I think it comes out to late 17 the way Americans calculate age. By the way, did you know that they're going to do a sequel? It's going to be a trainwreck - I can't wait.

I do remember a scene from Hourglass (which is PHENOMENAL - it's probably 10+ years old, but it really, really holds up), where the two leads wake up in front of fireplace. They're not naked or anything, but the implication is that they have slept together. I remember being SHOCKED! (But then, I was probably 11 or 12 at the time).

As for Love Story in Harvard - yeah, that was a total waste of time. Good lord, the terrible English dialogue! I couldn't take it - we tried for the first few episodes and then bailed. The storyline wasn't worth the agony of listening to that.

Even though I'm Korean, my American upbringing makes me confused when I watch these storylines. I never liked that a girl will call her boyfriend "oh-ba" [=older brother]. The slightly misogynistic [even in young people my age] undertones drive me crazy. This is from someone who's has been fighting with her roots for a long time. So, it's uncomfortable to watch the dynamics.

Anyway, I finished watching "Goong" last night. It was pretty good. I could see why teenage girls would love it. It was sad to hear about the main girl. She was a replacement member of a girl singing group (think Spice Girls), and some crazy fans would attack her. She now has some claustrophobia thing going on and doesn't feel comfortable with large groups of fans. Sad.

If I was supposed to root for Yul [the original crown prince] in any way, they have failed. IMO, he looked like some creepy, psycho stalker whenever he talked about his "love" for Chaeyoung. Even though Shin [the new crown prince] was dictatorial and mean, I still liked him better than the Yul guy I'm sure the sequel (supposedly at the end of this year or next) is going to be a trainwreck.

Has anyone seen the spin-off "Goong S"? It takes the end of the Goong, but adds another "twist" to it. I'm pretty sure this plot will be ignored if the sequel comes about it.

Has anyone watched "All In"? Is it worth watching? I've watched the first couple of episodes and was satisfied but after I stopped for a while, I haven't been motivated to continue and I have no explanation as to why I feel this way. Sure, I love me some Song Hye Kyo but I won't watch it just for her.

Glad you mentioned that. I forget sometimes -- it threw me for a couple of seconds in "Bizarre Bunch" when they mentioned that Daejong, the youngest daughter, was graduating high school at age 20. (I ought to have remembered though -- I had an older-than-me ESL student back in the day whose son was 18, according to her, but when she put him in American school he got embarrassed and got uppity with her -- made her recalculate his age to something like sixteen!) Is that because of the lunar calendar, or do you just get credit for the part of the year you spend in the womb, like the Japanese (I think)?

What with all the cheek-kissing stuff I was growing accustomed to (I got to the point where I thought there was a literal ban on liplocking, like in Bollywood), I've been downright shocked by a bit of the bodice-ripping in "Hwangjini." Not graphic, but not subtle either. And somewhat intense. My favorite scene so far is when Hwangjini, now a big-deal courtesan, turns the tables on the prince who thinks he's going to buy her for the night -- not only smacks his hand away from her stays but rips his bodice open -- then throws three bags of money at him. They even use the same camera angles they usually use for the men, extreme closeup of her hand tugging open his shiny brocade laces, , while the theme music of Teh Drama plays, er, dramatically. Then she gets up and leaves his unfulfilled ass just sitting there with his mouth hanging open. It might be the most awesome moment in the history of Korean soaps. Or it could just be me.

And I totally want this outfit.

(I'm making of list of all these other shows to get hold of.)

(OOH! Just found out that "All In" stars this dude. Must see!)

Apparently, my parents were all over "All In" when it first aired. I watched the first few episodes when one of the Korean channels reran it this summer, but couldn't get into it. I blame all the mangling of the English language in their "American" episodes... plus poker. I like Song Hye Kyo too (really liked Full House - girl runs fast in those high heels), but it was just painful. By the way, isn't she doing a movie version of Hwangjinie?

As for "Goong" - I think we're supposed to root for Shin, but in my personal opinion, neither of those fools deserved her. They were both super creepy and immature. She's a PERSON, not an object. Grrrr. And what was up with the ex-girlfriend wanting to be like Camilla Parker-Bowles? And the fake Prince William... good times.

I HATE that the girls call their boyfriends "ohpa" - it just sets up such an inequality in the relationship. I think that's kind of why I've been really preferring the shows where the female leads are slightly older, like Samsoon, Snow White (hello, Lee Wan! You may be a midget, but you're one foooine lookin' one) and The Chill Sisters. The age difference really helps to off-set the power imbalance between the sexes in the relationship.

Oh, and Unraveled, I'm totally like you - I watch because I'm addicted, but I really, really hate all the weird dynamics. Just don't get it since I grew up in the States. By the way, that girl from Goong isn't the only one with crazy fans - Korean fans are notorious for being completely insane. There's been more than a few Korean celebrities that have been victims of stalking and attempted poisonings (there was a boyband member that was recently hospitalized for a poisoned drink - I'm not even sure the kid speaks Korean).

I remember seeing a short film (by the same woman who did "Take Care of my Cat") that totally confused me, because the girl was saying "O-pa" to her cousin. Whom she ended up sleeping with. I didn't know who the hell this boy was until the end of the film -- I thought brother, then boyfriend, and then finally the reveal.

That said -- some Hispanics call their lovers "Mami" and "Papi." :-) A Dominican friend of mine explained it to me (after I reacted, he said, exactly as his 7 year old daughter had to the name: "Why are you calling me Mami?! I'm not a mom") -- "It's just a soft name" -- whoever you apply it to, sexual or not. So possible it doesn't have the same connotations, in Korean as well? (Yeah, I'm reaching. I'm trying to think of some other examples, but none of them are working because lot of crap is just built-in and inescapable in a lot of different languages, including English.:-)

Yeah, it's not so much a sexual connotation as it is a power and hierarchy thing. You have to refer to everyone by some sort of relationship to you, I think - the oppa thing is just to acknowledge that the guy is older than you, but because it's also the term you use for your actual older brother, it kind of lends a creepy dependent vibe to a relationship that I'm not comfortable with. However, the oppa thing is not NEARLY as creepy as the time I saw a K-Drama that had a very young (probably 19, 20 years old) girl married to an old family friend (as in friend of her mother's - mom dropped that friendship like a hot biscuit because, well, EWWWW!). She referred to her husband as "Ahjushi" - which is kind of a generic honorific that you use to refer to older men. I use "ahjushi" to talk about my dad's friends, or to refer to some middle-aged Korean dude doing a particularly middle-aged Korean man thing. That's not what you call your husband.

Anthrophile, have you finished the Chill Sisters yet? I'd be interested in your thoughts about the last episodes...

Did anyone like Winter Sonata? ImaginAsian is reairing the series AGAIN (for what seems to be the 4th time in a year), and I just don't understand the big deal. Because really? It's super boring and the guy can't act to save his life? Plus, I do believe that he's prettier than the female lead. Never has forbidden love been so very, very boring.

On a slightly off-topic note, I leave for Korea in 3 days!

I just saw episode 48, but I don't know how many there are in total. (Don't tell me, I want to be shocked by the "abrupt ending" you described. It's kind of a game now. Taeja's being nicer and more grown-up now -- but then he always is around any adult that's not his psycho, Latoya Jackson-looking mom...)

(Don't get me wrong -- I love the actress. :-)

Oh, I don't know if it's shocking... it's just abrupt in a "what?" sort of way. Like they just realized that their season was up or something. Really quick wrap-up of all storylines.

Yeah, Taeja gets nicer after the amazing inflating baby is born (seriously, that baby is waaaaaaaaay too large for a newborn). I take it you're still not at the hotness that is his semi-final scene.

LaToya Jackson looking mom? Really? Aww, I think she's really well-preserved for her age. But yeah, she's completely psychotic - let go of the apron strings, lady, and back away slowly.

Last I saw, he'd just told Ttengchill about going to the Army, although why he didn't just up and say I AM DRAFTED, I HAVE NO CHOICE is beyond my meager reasoning powers. Then again, nobody on TV tells anybody anything that would clear up misunderstandings if a lie or omission can stretch it out for six more eps.

I didn't mean anything bad by calling Taeja's mom "Latoya". She doesn't look plastic surgeried at all (I know, not a real word :-). She's cute! If overly smug. But she looks jaw-droppingly like a Jackson to everyone I've showed this to. It's the upper lip area, mainly. :-) (My friends and I are obsessed with finding people who look alike. Ethnic distinctions are no barrier!)

He doesn't mention it because it's mandatory service. Every eligible male over a certain age has to go - I think he's eligible to defer it a bit since he's in school and has a pregnant wife, but yeah, not worth mentioning it as a draft if it's an inevitable part of being a male in Korea. My brother can't set foot in Korea because he'll be escorted pretty directly to the nearest boot camp (he's 25, speaks virtually no Korean, but still has Korean citizenship).

Otherwise, this:

is completely and utterly true. Drives me nuts. Seriously, I think the lesson that we must all learn from K-Dramas is communication is key to a healthy relationship. So much drama because people don't talk, you know?

I don't see the LaToya resemblence at all - I wish I did. :-(

That's just what I mean though. If he would mention it, then nobody would be yelling at him -- he's telling Ttengchill about it as though he had some choice in the matter. He started off a few episodes back talking about "separation." If he'd just said "Look at this letter -- I have to do my mandatory national service," lots of tears and resentment could have been avoided. It's equally ridiculous when I think about it in terms of his mom. This way, the word 'separation' comes up and she yells at Ttengchill "what did you do to him that he wants to leave?" If he would spill -- well, there's only so far even his mother will get by bitching at the federal government. It's... nonsensical. I mean, even if he wants to delay the news -- which I totally get -- why the roundabout telling of it when he actually decides to tell?

Of course.... this is a soap. :-)

(The LaToya thing is really prominent in that one bit in the opening credits where she's doing her "sexy" walk. I should say "Janet" -- it's less insulting I guess, and I really don't mean to be insulting.)


Heh. I went to university with a Greek guy who had the exact same situation going on. Well, he spoke Greek, but otherwise... I don't think he's gone home yet...


(Is there any point in my spoiler tags at all? ;-)

Random Tangents:

-An opinion of why Winter Sonata is so popular:
http://www.koreanfilm.org/tvdramas/wintersonata.html
Cliffs can really be found at the end of that article.

-Chill Sisters. Here's a different name for that drama.
http://wiki.d-addicts.com/Famous_Princesses
Does the korean really translate into "Chill Sisters"?

-In terms of Oppa-Noona, I guess one could use the "Yehbo" alternative though that seems more appropriate for married couples.

To get onto the topic of Asian Dramas, what has everyone's experience with J-Dramas been? In comparing it to K-Dramas, I've found most of them to be shorter with less of the melodrama prevalent in K-Dramas yet still powerful emotionally.

Case in Point: Last Christmas. As a guy, I'm embarassed but not ashamed to say that this made me weep a couple of times throughout the drama's run.

I find J-Dramas to be melodramatic in comparison to US ones, but K-Dramas take it to a new level. Plus they seem to have a more sitcommy innocence to them (I don't mean that as an insult. I've been watching Oo-Oku, a Japanese historical drama, and in comparison with Hwangjini, a Korean historical one, there is so much stabbing and murder and seppukku I'm stunned. Actually I'm upset over the suicide death of a particular character just yesterday and haven't gotten over it yet, hence my strong words. ;-)

I find the J-Dramas more willing to "go there" in terms of sex and violence and suicide (they are not graphic, but they do make it clear that these are the things that are going on), but J and K dramas share a similar tendency to show characters withholding knowledge from each other -- e.g., nobody says "I love you" -- well nobody SAYS it at all, but nobody conveys it for a good 20 episodes at least. It's exciting to the target audience, but Americans who aren't used to it can find it frustrating. (Heck, I find it frustrating, and I love and am addicted to these dramas. :-)

Minor thing -- I think J-Dramas make more use of umbrellas to signify coupledom. If a pair get caught under an umbrella for any reason, they're going to be making out soon. ;-)


Does anybody remember "The Shomuni" -- (J-Drama)?


ETA: The D-addicts wiki is awesome, Grimlock!

WORD on K-Dramas being melodramatic. One could almost make a drinking game based on the overly emotional cliches prevalent in K-Dramas.

Protagonist with a incurable disease - one beer.
Destined Couple separated by contrived issues - two beers.
Destined Couple barely miss encountering each other -one bottle of soju.
And so on and so forth.

I almost imagine that the melodrama is in excess in K-Dramas because koreans are hardhearted people and the dramas need to overdramatic to elicit any emotion or sympathy from their audience.

:o

Yes! I'm watching it now. I'm at the end of Episode 9. So far, I'm loving it.

My friend has me hooked on Korean dramas. I've seen Winter Sonata, Lovers in Paris, Autumn in My Heart, and Sang-Doo, Let's Go to School. Lovers in Paris is my favorite.

I've enjoyed them all, but I must admit that I've had a hard time with some of the endings. I had to rewind both Lovers and Sang-Doo because I thought I was missing something.

I'm considering giving up on watching these Korean Dramas [sole purpose is to learn more Korean]. I'm finding it hard to like the men [mostly chauvinistic pigs with little redeeming qualities] and the women also [who allow the men to treat them like that].

I finished watching "Full House." I kind of like the main female character, but abhored the male movie star guy. In fact, I was rooting for the rich corporate guy.

Unraveled, I think the key to enjoying Asian dramas in general is to think of them as an entirely alien (as in out of this world) culture. One where stalking is not necessarily horrible and creepy, but rather an endearing thing a boy does to prove his love for a girl. It's from planet Soap Opera. I spend most of my viewing time yelling about how horrible wrong and chauvenistic the men are... and yet, I'm a sucker for them.

Anthrophile - have you finished the Chill Sisters yet?

Did anyone watch Rooftop Room Cat? The day I landed in Korea, the big news was that Jung Da Bin (who starred in the show) had committed suicide - making her the third female Korean entertainer to have done so in about a year.

Episode 59 :-) (Are there really EIGHTY???)

I did finish Hwang Ji-ni, which ended on a wierdly satisfying -- very rare! -- note. No happy-endings-for-all, and lots of shameless tearjerking on the way, but the ending made me sincerely happy, oddly enough. And all the rife sexism can be fanwanked away as "well, it was the time period."

Fifty million dollars says Michill is pregnant. Which... GOOD. She freaks me out with her "I have such a great body!" Nonsense. Girl, your thighs are the same size as your ankles! Eat some food! I mean, Seolchill is skinny too, but with a BUTT. :-) (I am prejudiced, you understand, I've always thought Seolchill was classically gorgeous. If goofy. Especially with her hair down.)

There were 80 episodes? Really? Damn - I think watching them as a marathon really messes with my perception of series' length. I would have guessed much shorter...

And Seolchil is MUCH prettier than Michil... the actress was in "My Rosy Life" a couple of seasons ago, and she was a stunner then (she had a GREAT wardrobe on that show - I would have killed for it) and a stunner now. Just beautiful bone structure in the face, and her body is just to die for. The actress who plays Michil is cute like an anime character or a particularly fluffy bunny rabbit, but not nearly as beautiful as the woman that plays her sister. And her body? Girl, please. You're stick-skinny, yet you have cankles.

And good guess under the spoiler tags... just wait until you see the fiasco that leads to. Good times.

Just so. I think it's very telling that she's supposed to be "the pretty one" too -- bascially her prettiness is directly proportionate to what I would call her "infantilism." Whine, stomp your foot, pout, get your way. Oh, and always end your sentences with your mouth open. It blows my mind whenever a man responds to it. I had to stop doing that sort of thing when I was four. I like Michill far better when she yells and puts people in their place with truth-telling. And when her skirts hide her scary thighs. Nah, someday in the future when I'm confronted with my magic genie bottle (yes, I do plan for this) and I have to choose between them, I'm going to ask for Lee Taeran's looks. ;-)

That's what totally grates about most K-Drama series - the "pretty and desirable" female is ALWAYS infantile to the point where you're amazed that she can walk and talk at the same time. Michil is supposed to be this liberated, modern woman, but she embodies all these negative feminine stereotypes - she whines and pouts, she pitches fits, she can't handle money or hold a job, she uses men for what they can give her, and she acts irrationally. Grr.

So - we just finished watching "Over the Rainbow," and while the show itself was somewhat middling, I did love the main female character, Sang-Mi. Girl spoke her mind to everyone, called out people who needed calling out, and didn't tolerate any "misunderstandings" of the sort that usually complicate these shows. I cheered when she told one of the boys (because there's ALWAYS a triangle) that she knew that he knew how she felt about him, and that she knew how he felt about her really, and that if he was going to throw that away because of some unresolved feelings for someone else, she couldn't see him again. None of this suffering in silence over misunderstandings and being a martyr. She also went about her business, taking care of herself and continuing to better herself instead of waiting for her romantic issues to resolve first. Felt sooooo refreshing. It's the first time in one of these shows that I actually thought that I'd like to be like the female lead when I grew up (even though I'm probably 10 years older than her).

Actually, I won't lie. "Over the Rainbow" - while cheesetastic and teeny-bopperish - was awesome. Good, solid writing, complex characters, and a harrowing look into the makings of a K-Pop music star. If the Korean music industry is even half the way it is portrayed in this show, it's the stuff of nightmares.

I am making plans right this minute to get a hold of "Over the Rainbow."

Excellent - I'd be interested in hearing your opinion. Make sure it's the one from MBC in summer of 2006 about singers and hip-hop dancers (I just checked yesasia.com, and apparently there's another series with the same name). I do warn you - it is seriously cheesetastic, kind of like a blend of "FAME," "A Star is Born," and, if you saw it, "Stars in My Heart." And possibly Disney Channel's "High School Musical." Lots and lots of very bad vocals, pretty impressive dancing by some of the cast, pretty hilarious half-assed dancing by others in the cast.

I did like that the two female leads are both ambitious girls who seem to actually have interior lives and motivations. They're equal partners in moving the romantic entanglements along, and they're active participants in the plot, not just reacting to what the boys do.

The first couple of episodes move slow, but the pace picks up a lot starting in episode 5 or 6. And as for the ending... sigh, it's good and satisfying, but not what I was rooting for.

Was this, "Sweet 18"? Yeah, this bugged too. Ok, so you may not be talking about the same one. But "Sweet 18" is about two people (girl is like 18/19, guy is is like 10 years older) who marry because their grandfathers had signed marriage agreements. She kept calling him ah-jushi the whole time. This was one wasn't so bad because the guy wasn't really a jerk. Because of the actor, I am now watching "Lovers in Paris." It's not so bad so far. But the villeiness is serioulsy dillusional.


This bugs so much. Are there no desirable, intelligent woman available? Makes me wonder what's the draw? But then again, seeing that the men are control weaks, they might like that.

Sad to say, no. "Sweet 18" - as annoying as that whole "marriage agreement leading to two people at the opposite ends of their 20s getting hitched" thing was - wasn't that bad. This K-Drama married off the heroine to a man who was fully old enough to be her father - and, indeed, had a daughter who was probably only about 5 years younger than the new wife. It was awful and creepy... and just gross. I mean, "Sweet 18" had only a 10 to 12 year difference, if I remember it correctly... this was a whole generation. Shudder.

There was a villianess in "Lovers In Paris"? Damn - I don't remember that at all, and I watched the hell out of that series. Well done wish-fulfillment of the "Cinderella" type, traditional stripping away of the heroine's strength and spunkiness to make her more "feminine" and suffering, and an ending that caused all sorts of hell in Korea.

There are always desirable, intelligent women available... they're just too scary and independent, and need to be taken down a peg or ten. <rolls eyes>

I know there's a contingent in Japan with an extreme youth fetish (I say contingent because I don't like to generalize that it's the whole culture). If you've ever seen the movie "Bounce Ko Gals" -- okay, if you HAVEN'T seen it, then by all means please do at the earliest opportunity. I won't go on too long about this, just -- okay one example is an article in Salon.com I read a while ago where a reporter was interviewing some Japanese schoolgirls who thought that Britney Spears was "kawaiikune" and "uncute" because she looked too old -- this was schoolgirl-skirt "hit me baby" era Britney, when she was still underage, but she lacked, I dunno, pigtails or something. And in "Bounce" there's a whole scene of high school girls talking amongst themselves about sleazy older guys who've tried to pick them up, and one girls relates how when the guy found out she was 16/17, he told her "never mind" because she was too old. Again, I'm not going to generalize, but lolita-complexin' is alive and well.

So what I wonder is, is it the same deal in Korea, or at least in Korean media? You're sexier the more you affect youthful traits? (Of all the Japanese women I taught, only one ever pulled that sort of behavior on me -- this incessant attempt to be "cute" with the high-pitched voice and the tilting the head to the side -- probably because I'm a woman and it wasn't necessary.) Michill is the most self-conscious, purposeful portrayal of this kind of behavior I've seen in Korean media, the whining and head-tilting and ending every sentence with the mouth still open (you can't really do that in English, we've got too many words that end in consonants and not enough "yo" sounds). I've seen actresses being "cute" (actually more in Japanese shows than Korean so far) but I've never seen any character in a Korean show do it with such a studied, purposeful air. And they all call her "sexy" for it.

The weird thing about it though, is that in "Hwangjini" (I know, I know, it's historical and that's not of interest to most here, but bear with me) she was considered the sexiest thing in the country, not because she was girlish but because she was haughty and untouchable. Their big thing was "never show emotion" -- always be stoic and controlled. Ji-ni was downright bitchy to some dudes, superior and condescending which of course ignited torrents of lust. True, much hell broke loose, but it was still a portrait of femininity that I was more... able to deal with, more able to see how this would attract someone. The childishness, though -- it's really hard for me to see how a woman stamping her foot when she doesn't get her way would incite a guy to want to have sex -- or anything at all to do -- with her.

Culture is a fascinating thing.

(However, Michill STILL says the most truthful, independant and feminist speeches on the show. When she's not around her husband. If they humiliate her or "bring her low" in the narrative I'm going to be extremely uspet. Or if they make her capitulate to her bossy/nosy uncle-in-law.)

True - but notice that when she makes those comments, it's couched in a way to make her seem selfish, infantile, and unreasonable, even borderline irrational.

And that keeping her mouth open at the end of her sentences thing DRIVES ME NUTS!