See what all the fuss was about!

They need to stop with the preview at the bottom of the hour.

50 bucks!? Is that too little to anyone else? If her clients were 09ers than it is too low. Was she giving infor to the general Neptune High pop? Did they change the actor who plays Lamb? He seems heavyer and with more hair. I so fell for Leo being the strangeler (sp). I've been watching too much AMC because I hated the babyswith SL with Mack. Why did they pull this? CSI has shown more disturbing stuff. I can't wait for the recap.

I'm just glad the show is back!

Too me it didn't seem "that dark". A serial killer around Christmas time can be pretty grim but I think they handled it well.

Great casting on Mac and Madison's families. I could totally believe that they belonged to each other's families.

Is it me or is Keith getting a little more and more "dangerous"? I thought he was just going to slap the guy's boots off the table not push him over completely.

So Clarence Weidman was the one who took the photos of Veronica and made the anonymous tip? I guess Jake Kane is involved.

Good spot for Weevil. It was only one scene but it was well done.

I am in definite agreeance with the "why did they pull this" thing. I swear, in the last five minutes I was thinking Mac was going to get run over by a car, that's how much I expected some sort of graphic violence.

Oh, and count me in as another one who thought Leo was the strangler. Damn you, writers. You still catch me by surprise.

I always hate seeing things out of order, especially with the cliffhanger-y stabbing of Aaron Echols' before Christmas.

But, I still liked this one and thought Leo was pretty darned cute. I also loved Keith's true-to-life panic about Veronica and kicking down of the door. Mac's story...a bit meh but ITA that the casting was bang on.

I don't see what the big deal was. Sure there was a more real sense of danger at several points in this episode, by far more than any other, but still, not so dark. Babyswitching themes galore, I didn't expect to be anything but dissappointed, and yet.....somehow the whole thing did manage to make me truly sad. I haven't decided yet what I think about the identical families, overdone resemblance thing.....it's either totally amusing, or just too much, and I can't decide which yet. It half puts the thought in my head that TPTB could be sitting there thinking "HAH! That'll teach those TWOPers to dissect any "family resemblance" between characters as clues to the mysteries! Take that!" but not really of course. Still, echoes of all the previous discussions.
Amusing and a very pleasing episode indeed. How happy am I to start the year this way? Tremendously.

Also, the happiest moment of them all: Enter Weevil.

So great.

DAMN KB has chemistry with everything. I don't like idiot cop though. Although I suppose we're getting more insight into this whole Veronica is Fabulous in Every Way and Super Smart But Likes Guys With The Personality of a Popsicle Stick. That's seriously the common thread between Donut and this dude. And could he be any more inapporpriate? But I'll let that slide. Why? Because she looked really hot in that black outfit she was wearing in the garage/whatever it was the band was playing in.

I was disappointed with Tina Majorino's acting. I can't tell if it's a choice she's making about the character or what, but something is so stilted; it irks. There's Kristen Bell ooozing charisma, and Mac's version of "geeky" just comes off cardboard. Plus she's more than slightly the con artist. Oh well.

I enjoyed that thoroughly.

I liked the Mac/Madison plot, but the whole "starcrossed characters place their hands on opposite sides of a glass divide" device doesn't really work so well with power windows. I mean, c'mon, Momma Mac - just roll down your window.

Wow, Deputy Dork sucked. Bad actor, and not as cute as he was supposed to be.

Poor Mac.
Was the kid that asked VM for help first the kid who ran for student body president in Joan of Arcadia?

Where's my Logan?

Pretty interesting. The guitar seller as the killer was a little lame, though. Also, why did they make Madison such a bitch? Not all the 09ers have been assholes, and I think it made the storyline less realistic. If she had been less of a jerk, Mac's storyline still would have been interesting.

And on the other hand, I felt that they were trying to make us think Mac is great when really, she's not. She was okay with embarassing several students at school in order to make money. Did she even tell people when they filled out the sex test that other people could later buy the results? Probably not, or no one would have done it. She's smart, but not very ethical.

I really like the first scene with Mac and her birth mom. It was really sweet. The second one was maybe a little sappy, though.

Weevil is awesome. At first when he walked up, I was wondering why he wasn't ackowledging Veronica. Then it was a duh, why else would he be there moment. I felt bad that Leo got suspended. I always feel bad when Veronica comes close to some kind of nice relationship but loses it. I also fell for the "Leo did it!" thought as the story progressed, but I so thought it was the guitar guy the first time we saw him.

Weidman had best be getting scared. Veronica is going to figure out whatever little conspiracy he's in on and nail some other prominant character in the process, though Jake Kane has to be involved somehow. Not sure if he's the killer though.

Man. Every time I watch this show, I love the characters more. I seriously want to have Veronica's babies. And Weevil's. And Mac's. And possibly Keith's. I'm indecisive.

Tina Majorino is starting to really resemble a younger Alyson Hannigan.

So, what happened with the million dollars? That confused me.

And, hey, great title but when exactly was Lamb 'silent'? Although they have dialled back his dickishness a fair bit...wonder why.

Katrina: Mac's Dad opened and bankrupted a leisure vehicle business with the money.

First thoughts (I so rarely get to post so early in the thread!):

Leo was surprisingly appealing though his line deliveries were kind of smooshy. He really seemed like a big old happy goofball of a rookie cop. He needs a nick, like Goofy.

The Mac baby switch story was really moving. But I don't watch All My Kids, so I haven't been made numb by the constant repetition. :)

The E-string strangler thing was freaky.

After the first few episodes, I remember someone here saying that they hoped Veronica wouldn't end up being too perfect. I think she's being shown to have a problematic side. I think she has been kind of corrupted by all the corrupt stuff around her.

Weevil, as annoyed citizen taking the police to task, in that outfit? Hot. So hot.

And finally, I have a big Logan-sized hole in my heart. Rob Thomas, please make it go away!

My favorite part of the Weevil scene was how understated his apparel was. His plain shirt made his complaints more effective, because it looked like they were coming from friendly neighbor Eli, not badass biker guy Weevil.

Plus I love how he was shouting the whole time, but it was like he was reciting lines from a bad play.

Did anyone else notice the wink Lamb gave the guitar salesman before he left? Maybe Lamb knew it was him the whole time.

Aside from that "Nature Trumps Nurture" anvil -- which, by the way, ends all speculation on Veronica's true parentage, unless of course Jake Kane has some mad detecting skillz of which we are unaware -- this was a pretty damn good episode.

And Leo the, um, Leo, actually, was goofily affable enough for me to go, "Yowza!"

This show goes by too fast. And that's a compliment.

I think he just ran out of clever quips.

The first half of the episode was sort of meh for me, mostly because of the lack of Logan, Weevil and the rest of the gang. I mean, I know that they could have been hidden in the dark corners of the school but for Veronica not to have even ONE encounter with them in those first 30 minutes was just ridiculous.

Then, of course, came the Weevil and he made things all better. Had to crack up at his "protesting" the injustice of having law enforcement having the barrio boys just "sort it out themselves" and he was so---he is so Veronica's pet monkey. Which reminds me of the pet my monkey shirts and....back on topic: Damn, but Frank is one hot mutha.

Found the latter half of the episode much better in terms of pacing and drama and all that good stuff. Was amazed at the chemistry that Kristen Bell seems to have with every human on this show (regardless of gender) and it's definitely of Amber Tamblyn proportions.

I actually wasn't too surprised that the crazy ass guitar guy ended up being the strangler just because the actor overplayed the mania a wee bit too much. Wasn't so put off by Deputy Dewey 2.0's acting because, well, I kept wading in the shallow end of the pool any time he came on and found him all sorts of hot in an "boy, he's a stuttering awkward fool in a cute sort of way."



Yup. That was him.

I sort of get a Jenna Malone vibe from Tina Majorino's---the way she looks, speaks and acts just screams Jenna. Except that Tina doesn't look so much the hungry waif that Jenna is.

Count me among the people who found the touching hands against the power windows stupid. And, good going there Bio Mom with almost running over your Bio Daughter's toes.

A very solid "A" ep.

I think Mac's real dad had a business of jet skis and such and it went bankrupt in 94 and then he bought it back from the bank in 95 with the million dollars from what Veronica told her.

Yeah, this episode kind of disappointed me. I think it's because the last episode was so rich with the things we love -- i.e., Logan, Weevil, Veronica, and Jake Kane -- and this felt too offtrack to me, although there were some nice parallels. I have faith that the writers know what they're doing, but it just wasn't my fave.

I don't exactly know what a swoon feels like, but I'm pretty sure I did it after Weevil left the police station.

Oh, and Braxton P. Hartnabrig can't be the bad guy! That's just so wrong!

That was Mac's "not-dad Dad," not her real dad. He bought it in '92 with the settlement and lost it in '94/5.

Thought the casting of Mac's real family was great.

One part I'm confused about, can anyone help me? At the end when K.Mars busts the serial killer (who was the guitar player? it was soooo dark on my screen), was there any reaction from anyone? Did Lamb react to him solving it? Did the mom react to her daughter being found?

If none of that happened (while I was up getting a soda pop or something), then I think it must have just been cut out for length. I felt like they had more but ran out of time.

Wow, he must be hot if Demian has a 'Yowza!' for someone called Leo.

As if I weren't already obsessed with this show, they throw in a phenomenal "Spinal Tap" reference.

As always, there were too many phenomenal lines to even remember. It's only once I get my hands on the DVDs and watch each episode roughly 20 jillion times that I'll be able to start catching and retaining all of the many, many phenomenal one-liners.

I thought the actor who played Leo did an excellent job---the facial expressions, the dorkiness, the slightly cop-esque way of talking.



Seriously. As much as I loved this episode and was reminded within the first two minutes why I so deeply love this show, a Logan-free episode still pains me. I'm still on board with not awkwardly inserting secondary characters if they don't naturally fit in with the storylines, but in my admittedly infatuated opinion, Logan always enhances any scene he's in.

This is one of the very, very few shows that I'm confident I'll love regardless of where the storylines go. I'd follow these characters and writers through even the most absurd plots if it means more time with Veronica, Logan and the best snarky one-liners ever to hit the screen!

"Two words for you, Clarence Wiedman -- Game on."

Yaaaaaaay! That sent a little shiver up my spine! I am so so so excited to see how this all plays out.

Call me shallow, but I thought Deputy LoveConnection was hot! KB always has fantastic line readings, but I especially loved her delivery, upon hearing that the deputy was 20, "Yes, I can see the wisdom in your eyes." Hee hee! They had cute chemistry, I thought. Although, as others have pointed out, KB has chemistry with *everyone*.

No Logan! Come back soon, baby!

It was? I guess I got confused since I didn't get to read all of the newspaper Veronica was looking at on the machine and I thought the other guy got the money.

BTW, did I hear the opening chords of Aerosmith's "Sweet Emotion" when Veronica came in with the pizza to the police station?

I'm a bit torn on the Mac plot - hated Morgan, hated the ending, loved the casting, loved the scenes with the little sister, and everything else was meh.

Veronica's feelings for Leo were too forced - they didn't spend enough time together after she got the evidence for me to really think there was really anything there, so when VMVO said she fell for him I was thrown. If he had been around for more than one episode, it might have worked, but they way they did it didn't click with me. And no way in hell would Veronica have forgotten to lock the evidence room behind her.

Props to the promo people, though - I thought Leo was the Strangler after seeing Veronica's "I know who it is!"


I just figured they were trying to fill the HoYay! gap they created when they forgot to put in any Logan/Weevil scenes.

I wondered if we were supposed to like the new Deputy guy? Because I didn't. I think the entire Neptune PD seems a little smug and smarmy, makes you wonder about DaddyMars since he used to run it. Weevil was more interesting in his once scene than Deputy Love Interest. Also even if VeronicaMars is over the age of consent, is it really seemly to have a Deputy hitting on the teenage high school daughter of the former police chief?

I think the main problem with the show was a bit revealed here. I like Veronica (a lot), I like DaddyMars, Duncan, Weevil and even like to hate Logan. I'm even interested in Lily's murder...and I think the "Veronica" parts of the show are the best written. But when they get to the Mystery of the Week part (like tonight with Mac and Blondie being switched at birth) it's kinda run of the mill and blah. I'm not expecting some big crimes with a teen-age sleuth main character I would like some build up so these "mysteries" mean something - like if Mac had been a recurring character we've seen before (I can't remember if we have or not to be honest but I don't remember her) instead of a one-shot "guest star" I would have been more interested. Although I do like Tina Majorina as an actress since she did Alice in Wonderland with a convincing English accent as a kid. But A lot of VM's high school aquaintances who have been featured in her cases seem to be like Mac - she seems to know them but they're on for one ep. and we don't seem them at Neptune High again.

Word. True, the last scene with Mac and her mom was a little stupid and overly sappy, but the whole thing is just pretty sad. Poor Mac. The casting for the families were great, I agree. I wonder if Madison ever wonders why no one in her family is blonde. Probably not.

KB continues to knock my socks off. Love her, and that black outfit was fabulous. Leo was cute, but I don't think we'll be seeing more of him, and I kinda hope not. Nothing against him, but it's just all kinds of inappropriate.

The entire episode I was thinking Lamb was going to be the bad guy, just because of the title. Too bad he wasn't, because that would've been one hell of a twist.

So Clarence called in the anonymous tip. Further proof pointing towards the Kane family, if we didn't already think it could be one of them. How much power does Celeste have in the Kane industry? I'm thinking loads.

Next week looks great. The plus side was that I spotted Logan in the previews. And secret societies are always fun television.

Both families involved in the mix-up received $1 million in the settlement, and agreed to keep their non-biological children. Mac's "adoptive" father then invested his money into a jetski, etc. retail/rental business, which goes bankrupt two years later (it's not clear what Mac's biological parents did with the money). Someone bought the failing business, and now he's gone from owner to salesman. Hope that helps.

I'm really hoping that Lamb does turn out to be a 'bad guy'...maybe bad enough to have been Lilly's killer. I would not miss him in the least if he were off the show, serving time in TV prison (i.e., off screen).



I usually despise when two TV characters instantly fall for each other when all we've seen them do is exchange a few quick quips. It's actually a pet peeve of mine. In this case, though, I actually liked Leo and saw some chemistry between them. (then again, who wouldn't VM have chemistry with?!)
Plus, the cynical side of me noted how convenient it would be for future crime plots if VM eventually had a boyfriend in the police department :)

Is it next Tuesday yet?

This was a good episode, not one of the great VM shows.

The Mac plot, didn’t really interest me. And I agree with a poster up-thread who thought Mac was not a great purpose. She hurt a lot of people with her scam of running the test and then selling any result to anyone, and most did nothing to deserve it.

I was surprised at how cheap Veronica was selling the info on the parents, she should have gotten at least 10 times more from the 09ers.

I was certain that Leo was the killer; my brilliance amazes me.

How did VM recognize the security guy’s voice? When did she ever hear him before?

On the reason the show was postponed:
It may have been postponed just because it wasn’t a Christmas show and the other was and they had to get the Echoll’s Family Christmas in before Christmas.

They may have originally expected have one more show pre-Xmas and ended up having to move a show.

I wasn't irked by the sappy bit so much. I was expecting dialogue so was glad to have none. Personally I want to see the scene 35 years from now when Mac shows up to the reading of the will.

No dig on anyone for not remembering, but not only was Mac actually a recurring character whom we've seen before, so was Madison. So I personally found myself interested in how these two turned out the way they did. And I fell for the "Deputy Cute" red herring like a load of bricks. Stupid bricks. So as A-storylines go I liked this one pretty well. In general I think this show has such an intriguing ongoing mythology that it makes it harder to come up with a mystery-of-the-week that can compete with it. Not a problem many TV shows have.

I just thought this was the perfect touch--the guy doesn't even get to quit and move on with his life, but has to stay there as a salesman.

ITA that the Mac subplot was a little forced--that scene at the party where she just happens upon the pix of Madison vacationing at all the wonderful places she's never been, juxtaposed with the scene where she has to go camping in Yosemite, for example. But I was happy that they used her character again, instead of just coming up with some other poor kid to be switched at birth. Mac does have a sort of Willow-ish vibe, and I think she could have some potential as a recurring character, if she isn't spending all her time moping around about what might have been.


Edited, because using the word "juxtaposed" just feels good.

"Eli Navarro Esquire". Yum. Now where are the other boys? Wait, that's not why I watch this show right?

I also liked VM's determination to solve Lily's murder with her little speech about Lily applying to colleges and figuring out which CD to play loudest.

It was cute VM was the only person at the band gig and she dressed up for him. That's when I decided I liked Cute!Cop!

I thought about that as well and since she already has a rep of being a detective, it could have been her way of dispelling the rep that she's someone with which you don't want to hang around by charging an arm and a leg which the 09er's could have perceived as typical.

Mac and Madison have both been in other episodes. I like that the tertiary characters keep popping back to the surface. And people like Dick Casablancas floating around in the background. It's nice continuity.
And I love Keith Mars. I loved it when he kicked the bartender off of his chair. Outstanding!

When did we see Madison before? I remember Mac but I don't remember Maddison (of course the 09er girls all look alike. I know that is probably by design but it makes things confusing.) Props to Veronica Mars though for using not one but two characters we had seen before for this episode. Nice continuity. Even if some of us seemed to miss it.

I also fell for the "Leo did it" red herring. It was well done, obvious enough to pick up on it, but burried enough for it to look like they didn't want you to pick up on it.

Incedently what was it that tipped them off the guitar shop owner did it. He looked at the sound proofing for Leo's band, then suddenly they were at the guitar shop. Then they get there and the girl isn't even in the sound proof room in the guitar shop. I didn't get it.

My bag. I'm sorry. I have a lousy memory for tertiary characters. In that case I'm glad they brought them back BUT I still think the switched at birth plot was kinda blah. Hopefully this is not the end and they go revisit on this at a later date (something most mystery series hardly ever do but I think VM is different)

Madison was the girl who ran the copies to rig Duncan's election. She lost her Pirate Points and got kicked off the student council.

No Logan?! WHY?

Moving on ... I like Mac in general, but in this episode she bugged me a little bit. I know that many teenagers really dislike/are irritated by their parents, but her attitude was really condescending and snooty. Like her comment about how she was "spitting out corn dogs and switching the radio to NPR" when she was two or something. It just seemed like she was totally looking down on her parents as though she were far superior.

I understand she feels like she doesn't belong, but it's not like her parents are terrible people (well, except for the lying about her true parentage, but that's understandable, and maybe they planned to tell her at some point.) There's nothing wrong with being a salesman, or going camping, or liking things other than NPR. She just came off as a snob, possibly worse than Madison, who just cares about money. Mac is an intellectual elitist snob, which can be worse.

Her scenes with the little sis were sweet. I kind of hope something will be worked out with the two families where they get to know each other, it seems like Mac's bio mom is dying for the chance. I was glad that at the end Mac seemed to have wised up and appreciated the parents who raised her. I was confused when Veronica said something about Mac having had a choice in all of it, and there was a reason why it was kept a secret. Did she mean that four-year-old Mac was asked where she wanted to live or something?

Was I the only one who thought that the million would turn out to be in trust for Mac?

Regarding Deputy Leo, I was also surprised that Veronica supposedly fell for him. He seemed like kind of a douche to me. They didn't show anything about him that seemed like it should appeal to Veronica as we know her. He begged for food and gave her a cheesy invite to see his band. I know she's 17, but at least Duncan and Troy, while wooden and evil respectively, appear smart and seem to share some interests with Veronica. That was weird, I think they should have done more to show her falling for him. Unless it is supposed to be similar to "The Girl Next Door" where Veronica called Sarah her friend and Keith was like "Veronica, she's not your friend she's just some girl you talk to in the laundry room from time to time." Maybe Veronica was just projecting deeper feelings again to punish herself even more.

I'm all aboard with those that missed Logan and even Duncan. And I dug Weevil. It's interesting that as much as I like Logan and VM together - I'd almost like to see him with Mac. Maybe that's just me, but her situation pretty well smears the class divide all to heck and...

Well, it's like this, Logan was mourning Lilly then rebounding with Paris Hilton. He needs to look for someone who's not just a blonde surface replacement. Someone with edge and snark and schemes. OK, see, Mac? Could have talked his dumb ass down from Skid Row boxing. She has a devious mind that would so totally help Logan and vice versa (money-making schemes, etc.) They should at least be friends.

I thought she was. Because he had to break open those doors that the guy closed earlier to keep the sound out of the main store when he was talking to the cops. So it was effectively soundproof, especially with the girls voice muffled by the trunk.

Madison was the 09er starting the Pirate Point controversy and helping to rig the vote in "Return of the Kane."



He knew the killer slowly suffocated the victims, he didn't kill them outright. That's why he didn't buy The Worm as the killer, because he had thin walls and no means to have her stashed elsewhere. So when he tracked Veronica to that storage unit/garage that was all sound-proofed he realized that the creepy guitar salesman had easy access to such a room, and boatloads of ultra-generic guitar strings. And she was in the sound proof room of the shop, first Keith busted into the shop, and then he jimmied open the divider between the storefront and the music room.

For the record, I found the girls being kept in that trunk until they suffocated quite a lot more creepy than Haaron getting gutted. Don't think it needed to be pulled, but ultimately it was a bit darker, especially with the babyswap plot in there as well. Quite dark.

Ok I loved this episode. It could be because I missed "Echoll's Family Christmas".

I thought Daddy Mars kicked ass, and I really liked that he called Veronica multiple times when he realized the killer was still out there. It's the subtlety behind Keith I like the most.


I was really happy that they brought back Mac. I'm a sap because I thought Mac walking through the party was sad and touching. It was a quick way of letting you compare the different lifestyles. I also liked the slight desperation in Madison's NonMom's voice when she asked if Mac wanted a snack. The window thing bugged me too.

I thought it was Deputy RockaGoof for a while there! I have officially lost my sluth card!

I loved Weevil's mini scene!!

It was all so...cute. I have no idea why it was pulled though.

Weevil distracted the deputy so that Veronica could sneak into the evidence room.

I think they totally could have fit Logan into Madison's party, even if it was somewhere in the background. Having some smarmy comment when Veronica, et. al. walked in the door? Ample room for some Logan.

I, too, thought our fair deputy was the serial killer, with the young and the hot and the uniform-having and trust-gaining 'aw, shucks-ness' of him. Writers: 1 point. However, I thought 'you did?!' when Veronica said she had fallen for him.

I did love that Keith figured out the case, though; loved that he did it even when Lamb was certain that Porn Guy was the killer (I WANT A LAWYER, hee). Anyway, that was when Lamb was silenced.

Enough can't be said about Weevil, so I'll just stop there.