jase-bot, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Although I've chuckled at the name SpongeKyle Squarehead, I've liked Kyle Brandt in the role from the day he showed up. I never saw him on Real World, so I had no preconceived notions of him. Also, I could not stand Jay Kenneth Johnson. I wanted to slap him upside the head every time he appeared onscreen. I always think of him as Abusive!Phillip. KB is the mature, easygoing, non-asshat Phillip Kiriakis, and I love him, especially his interactions with Kate since Roman died.

It also helps that I checked out the link to his website someone posted a few weeks back. The way he described Rhasaan Orange...oh my God. The boy certainly has a sense of humor, which makes me like him even more.

As far as Macdonald Carey's sudden death being an excuse not to write a proper goodbye episode, I have two things to say: Douglass Watson (Mac on AW) and Larry Gates (HB on GL). You wait till you have time in the story and then have a nice memorial service with flashbacks. It's not that hard unless you're a moron. It's certainly better than "Tom's dead, oh well, this one's for Tom."

Actually, I said that because I believe they are played by the same actor (Brody Hutzler) .

The Belle pseudo-masturbation scene was so bizarre and unnecessary. It will haunt my dreams. The joyful, childish look on her face, gahhh! I feel like I should sound the Amber Alert.

I looked Brody up on IMDB, and he did have a role on Angel. Only he was Landok (Of the Deathwok Clan!), not Groo. Whoa, that'll make those season two reruns weird now.

I could've sworn he was Groo! Huh. I remember Landok! Of the Deathwok Clan! but I thought that was someone else.

Belle: My mom's a killer, Calgon, take me away...BUUUZZZZZZZ.... (And that buzz isn't Jan throwing something electric in the tub either my friends, it's Belle using the latest in waterproof technology)

John: Must...stop...having...80s hair...flashbacks!

And why was John driving on the left side of the road? This isn't downtown Europe.

Also, a tree fell, but don't worry, there's a storm, so everything makes sense, people!

Oh, good lord. Latest crazy rumors, adroitly paraphrased from the DOOL Coffeerooms message boards as well as SoapOperaFan.com - Reports apparently have been coming up to the effect of this, so says another poster:"Marlena and Hattie were switched, and Marlena was brainwashed into thinking she was Hattie and Hattie was brainwashed into thinking she was Marlena...it was Hattie, thinking she was Marlena, that was the murderer. John also brought Bart to the hospital where he admitted that this was true and that Stefano is still alive and behind all of this. From here I get a little confused because he said that John brought the real killer to the hospital (Hattie) and unveiled her, and the woman who went over the balcony died from the injuries. Also, at this time Belle, Shawn and Philip spot Jan so they know she is back."

So...uh...Brainwashed Hattie did it, seems to be the gist of these rumors. While "poor Marlena" is probably still missing. If that's it, copout! They swore it wasn't Hattie. Bullshit, yo!

Regarding those rumors, let me just synopsize (or a real word) the next two pages worth of posts:

That's stupid! They lied! F this one! F that one! It's not true! Is has to be a lie! ...calm blue ocean...

Oh, and Jan gets spotted? It'll probably be her recast and they won't notice her.

As lame as that rumor sounds, it actually goes with a couple of the spoilers for next week (I take it this is what you meant with the mention of Dustin's page?):

"When Marlena wakes up she accuses John! It's Marlena's word against John's, who will be believed? Celeste takes Marlena's hand in order to determine her guilt or innocence, and she feels that Marlena is innocent! Could it be Marlena is NOT guilty? Will John take the fall for Marlena?

Not so fast, John realizes who the "real" killer is, and later brings the suspect to the go to the hospital with him so he can reveal the person to all. Who is the suspect? Is John's hunch right, is this suspect the killer and not Marlena? If so, who have we been watching commit these murders?"

I don't know how I feel about the rumors. Perhaps I've just become numb over the whole thing. There was no "twist" that I could be happy with, honestly, so yeah.

If those rumors are true, that's supremely irritating. I'm not watching anymore, but even so, I think that's just stupid, considering all that's been said and promised to the contrary.

The other day, when Celeste was looking at the cards with faces on them...how come Jack's said j-a-c-k instead of his picture? I assumed he wouldn't let them use his likeness (dont blame him) but today we saw him in a flashback?

Maybe its a "no new scenes" clause???


And it was really driving me crazy that Alice was just sitting there all that time while her potential killer was at the door talking to an aberration??? Run old woman, run. If you dont, you may just be too dumb to live!

jase, I'm de-lurking on these boards because my mother is insistent that she heard on some radio show, that one of the DJ's went to the taping of the episode of DOOL that will reveal that it's Marlena's twin not her doing all the killings. I personally didn't believe it until I read your post. I thought the guy was full of shit, and my mom has a tendency to believe everything she hears, but now reading your post makes me think it's the truth.

Frances Reid is the most awe-inspiring actress on the show. Heather Lauren Olsen is not fit to lick her boots. Deidre Hall and Melissa Reeves may, however, be permitted to serve her afternoon tea. I have to admit that I’m really interested to find out what the hell Marlena’s psychosis is, and why she thinks that she has to do this. My guess is that in the scene from the previews, Alice is already a ghost. She said, “Let us help you.”


Sami was, of course, utterly ridiculous today. Also,


Incidentally, it does look like John was on the left side of the road. But, after all, head-on collisions do happen IRL, so somebody usually has to be driving on the wrong side for that to happen. It still doesn't really explain it, but, there you go.

I cannot look at Belle anymore without thinking, “OMGWTFBBQ!” And Jan’s blouse might be called “boobtastic” or “boobalicious,” but in her case it’s just an aboobination. Incidentally, she was holding a white purse in the first scene, but I didn't see it later. It may have been something of Belle's she had picked up. But I have to admit, Jan looking for an extension cord actually made me laugh. I mean, who among us has never gone on a quest for an extension cord? And Fucking!Jan was even amusing when she found Belle’s “Tuesday” underwear. But that was the material, not the actress. Belle, love, if the thunder made you get out of the tub because you feared lightning, why would a lack of rain send you back in? It’s still thundering, which means that there is lightning, you cotton-candy-brain! And when she started babbling to herself in the tub, I officially hated her. And as you may recall, I don’t normally hate Princess Wiggum.


Well, Shawn, it has everything to do with Rex’s “bedroom eyes.” (And, yes, I know that it was almost definitely “axel,” but the closed captioning said, “ass,” so I’m going with it.)

This storm was so strange. There was lightning, but no rain.

TheCustomOflife said:

Serious. A TWoP'er needs to be on the staff of this show. To bring some class to the operation.

Or at least to give people the feeling of, "Ooh! Ooh! Shoutout!"

My first act as head writer will be to write out Belle by having her brakes fail right before she careens off a cliff. Her final words?

"OMGWTFBBQ!"

I wrote most of this last night, but the forums went down before I had a chance to post it, and have been every time I've been online since! Poor forums! I hope they're feeling better.

I'm with you, Angry Girl. If I didn't already have a trip planned to DC in April (thereby busting my travel budget for a while), I'd offer to help organize a trip to LA to do just that! ButWho says we can't do both? I just wish my feet were bigger.

Nah, just really good camera filters. (And hair products, apparently.)

I'm not sure how I feel about JERk's "replenishing" of the Hortons and the Bradys. Yes, I would love to see, say, Kimberly and/or Kayla come back, or Frankie and Max (?) - especially if Frankie comes back for Jen! - and whatever Hortons may be missing who I can't recall now - but not at the expense of the characters they've killed off. Oh, and Custom? I don't care if DoctorNeon was serious or sarcastic, I'd pay to see what soap you'd write! I would also pay to see you bring back the dead characters any way you saw fit, no matter how corny, hokey, or implausible.

The only way I'll buy into the recast of Jan is if the reason they brought her back has something to do with revealing that Marlena is the killer. As in, she's the one Marlena gets caught killing! Heh. Or even if she catches Mar-whatever redhanded, so to speak. Otherwise? Unless this new chick rocks, and rocks - REALLY HARD - Get. Off. My. TV. NOW!!!! I just don't get why this whiny, moronic, psychotic character (and horrifically bad actress) gets to hang around while Jack and Roman and Alice get killed off.

And thestatic? AMEN to your entire post (back a couple of pages, here). Just a few months before JERk came back, I remember telling my best friend (who quit watching when KrisTAN "died") how good this show had become. She choked on her curry chicken tonight when I told her they were killing off Alice, and how.

I have one observation to make that may get me flamed ;) (and I'm not spoilering this, because it was a rumor and not a spoiler as far as I know; if I'm wrong, let me know and I'll fix it!), but when I first heard Marlena might kill The Eyebrow, I thought, "YAY!" Then I gave it a little more thought. Yes, I loathe Jarlena with the fire of 10,000 suns, but I've come to realize that I hate Marlena way more than I hate John. This could be because, as I've said before, she's the main reason I got sucked into this show way back when, but then she turned into a sanctimonious harpy. John's character basically hasn't changed much, even when he was FauxRo. There's always been a little bit of camp, a little bit of a wink at the camera, in Drake's performance, and while I can find that very irritating in some forums, and I do sort of love to hate his Smell the Fart acting... But when I think of the show without him, there would definitely be a big, gaping hole there. Not that that's worth a FUCKING THING to NBC, Corday, or JERk. I know I'm probably in the minority here, but for some reason, I feel like being pro-Nostril tonight.

Yeah, MrCecil, they also lied about Alice. I got my SOD today, too, and go to re-read the interview with that heartless fuck Corday; he sounds even more callous in print. My letter is on its way.

Damn, I almost forgot. Fuck you, JERk.

Would I be forgiven if I said I wanted to bring back Carrie? And maybe that Alan guy to knock Sami down a few notches. Maybe she can try to shoot off his mm-hmm again, and it would be a very dramatic storyline. I don't think many serials have encountered the "rapist comes back to town" storyline, especially one that didn't end in the rapist going back for seconds. I'd want Alan to be evil, of course, but nothing that would hint at him going back to his old ways. Maybe it could bring enemies together, like when Sami allied with Kate to bring down Nicole.

Does anyone think a Christie Clark/Michael T. Weiss pairing would be a good one? Personally, I prefer Mike played by Weiss but I can't picture Carrie with any other Mike but Roark Critchlow.

ChickenGrrl:
For reals, girl? You know I'm in Baltimore, right? Are you gonna holler at me?

TheCustomOfLife:
Mmmmm...Michael T. Weiss.

I checked the birthdates. While Christie Clark was born in 1973, a Clark/Weiss pairing would be an 11-year age difference. With Passions notwithstanding, a Clark/Critchlow pairing was still a decade apart anyway, so my worries about Miss Clark being paired with MTW were unfounded.

I'm game for Weiss. I liked Christie Clark with Critchlow, but I wouldn't mind seeing Weiss again. He's way yummier to me.

David, I completely forgot you're in BWI. I have Pittsburgh stuck in my brain. I'm actually flying IN to BWI! Dude. We'll have to figure out a way to hook up for drinks! A mini-con!

Yes, but then again, I liked Carrie.

And ChickenGrrl, I'm with you on John. I may hate the character sometimes, but watching him on yesterday's SoapNet marathon, I realized that I do enjoy seeing John on the show and it would be missing a lot without him. But as always, the same can be said about Abe, Jack, Roman, Maggie, Caroline, Tony, Alice, Doug, and heck, possibly even Cassie if the writers bothered to remember that KATE IS CASSIE AND REX'S MOTHER, SO WHY HAVEN'T THEY HAD A SCENE TOGETHER SINCE ROMAN'S DEATH?

*flips to page 6 of the Smokin' Crack Soap Opera Fashion Guide: Summer '04!*

There's a whole section, written by Leah Laiman and Jill Farren Phelps, on how continuity and plot explanations are so out in 2004. It's just no longer chic. Guiding Light is modeling the newest lack of continuity and plot explanation for summer! Ooh! Aah! Yes, that's just faboo! Please clap for our special runway model, Maryanne Caruthers!

(First time posting on this thread!)

I've always loved this show, and I've lately been getting home right after it ended (damn you, school bus!). And the SoapNet started playing it at night! Yay!

Anyway, the real reason I'm posting here? That jacket that Sami (is that how you spell it?) was wearing in the scene with her and John... I have it! Yay! Does anyone have a screencap of it? I will be in your debt, cause then I could be like "Ooh, I am so cool, cause I match psychobitch!Sami!!"

Welcome, magnadoodle! Will these screencaps do?

Well, it squicks me out. Like the now-infamous-to-me-after-one-day "Belle masturbation" scene yesterday. But as to Carrie, I loved her once, long ago, but to me she's like Marty Saybrooke on OLTL (though much less nuanced and complex) - I think her tale is told, for a long time anyway. Yes, Carrie has a lot more mileage than Marty, someday, but not now. Not to me, anyway. What would she do if she came back? Contribute to the glut of cookie-cutter heroines? I liked RC!Mike/Carrie back in the day, but while I would bring MTW's Mike and Jeremy, I would drop her. I think the audience ODed on her, John, and Marlena, among others - Sami and Lucas somehow escaped the fans' ire, and Austin is thankfully finally gone (forever, if I had my way) . I see no point.

My shortlist for returnees remains Sarah Horton, Bill and Laura (recast all around, unless Edward Mallory can still walk) , the mythical Bill Jr. (Bill's illegitimate AfAm son, the role Rhasaan Orange was originally supposed to play) , Vivian and Nikki, Mike and Jeremy, OriginalRecipe!Roman, and Doug. I can think of ways to save Roman and maybe even Jack, but Doug boggles the mind. I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually. It probably involves lounge singing.

I am near Baltimore too! Well, I'm in DC.

Rhasaan Orange was going to be cast as a Horton? Well, thank God for small favors. If he were a Horton, these murders would have gone on forever because no one would have figured things out. Besides, we have enough self-righteous pricks on this soap, thanks.

Speaking of the beautiful Mr. Orange -- I thought everyone would like to know there is a picture of him shirtless in this week's Star magazine (don't judge me). It's a hot soap guys two page spread. Brody Hutzler is also featured, but we all know what he looks like half naked. Brody's picture is just a screencap from the show, but Rhasaan's is a really sexy shot. For the record, he's 28, single and a Virgo.

jase-bot, out of curiosity, where did you hear that Rhasaan was originally supposed to play Bill Jr.? You know, with the infinite potential for retconning that exists in the soap opera genre, it could still turn out to be true at any point in the future. And if you're in DC, why have you never been to any of our TWOPcons? Have you checked out the thread?

Adina Leigh, please tell me you have a scanner?

I would like Carrie to come back and go after Lucas just to get Sami's ire up. I think that would be fun.

I was honestly disturbed at Marlena gleefully cornering poor Alice in the closet. I don't really have the words to describe how it made me feel but I know I didn't like watching it.

I did however enjoy watching Sami take a shot at John only bec he thought she didn't have it in her.

Forgive me, board for I have sinned. It's been months since my last post and I've subsequently built up quite an arsenal of pent up, WASP-style rage. Forgive me while I rant.

France Reid has been a mainstay on Days of Our Lives since the soap's premiere in 1965, and her character Alice has been sheparding her increasingly inept grandchildren through the drama of things like finding out your mother was a hooker, realizing that a maniacal villain had brainwashed you into thinking you were really a long dead art-thief/princess, etc. There was nothing that a donut and a Christmas ornament couldn't cure.

Ok.

But Days thought they needed a shot in the arm, and brought back JERk. Let's review the value JERk has brought to other soaps: aPinocchio-style Christmas tale about a puppet who wanted to become a real boy (and ends up living with some sort of witch) on Passions; a town psychiatrist who is concurrently possessed by demons and having a romance with the town villain in an underground opera reminiscent of "Phantom of the Opera" (Days of Our Lives) and he established the initial story architecture to have a woman- believed dead by friends and family- discovered alive, living amongst the Amish after driving her car off a bridge in a fit of postpartum depression (Guiding Light).
Clearly JERk has an affection for the outlandish and bizarre, and he subscribes to the theory- perhaps rightly so- that the more eccentric the storylines, the more likely a show is to increase audience and generate additional advertising revenue for the networks. I get generating interest by creating yet another serial killer storyline, but instead of just bumping off insignificant characters and reserving the "big kills" for sweeps, he seemed to only kill stars that were established in the history of the show. And now he's killing off Alice Horton. Sweet, donut making Alice Horton.

Yeah, yeah, they want to bring in the younger demographic. They've bumped off 9 actors aged 50+ since the start of this whole thing and they want to save money. Goody for us. More antics of Belle the teen model/fashion designer or her little rag-tag group of friends (Shawn D, the aspiring detective; Phillip, the super spy in training; Brady and his opera singing girlfriend Chloe, who is busy touring the world and keeping Brady's stepmother at bay)? What's next, a Mystery Machine and talking Great Dane?

For months, this storyline and the way it's been written aggravated me, and I've been shrugging it off, saying that I could give less of a shit but that's not entirely true: I care from the standpoint that this would be a dream job for me and to see someone with little talent or respect for the craft of storytelling pisses me off in a huge way (not to suggest that Days writing represent volumes of Nobel caliber material). The most successful daytime dramas, Young & the Restless and Bold & the Beautiful, maintain their momentum in the ratings through a careful use of history and a stable of skilled actors well-versed in their craft and the histories of their characters. Currently storylines involving Victor (in house since 1980), Nikki (1979) and Katherine (1973) continue to generate huge interest while on the Bold & the Beautiful, CBS is heavily invested in storylines involving Stephanie, Brooke and Ridge- characters all with the show since it's 1987 debut.
I guess my point is this: good soap opera writing, and the ratings and advertising revenue that come with it, has always been character driven. Just like writing for film, the stage or other genres of television, storylines that build on the histories and essential elements of characters and their relationships with one another makes for compelling television. In this instance, the Days serial killer story is driven by external interests: ratings and "operational efficiencies," which are likely to support short term growth but clearly ignore the problems that will continue to impede the long-term success of the show.

I'm all for putting JERk in a pinata and batting him around a little. Or maybe sending a tiger after him. Maybe bludgeoning him with a wine bottle would be better. Or a brick, yeah, a brick.

Anyway.

And bring on some shirtless Lucas while you're at it.

While watching this scene, I did some MST3King and said something like, "If she's taking a bath during a storm, then she deserves to die."



Y&R did this a few years ago. They brought back Matt Clark (who had a face-replacement and called himself Carter Mills), who, I think, wanted revenge on Nick and Sharon for sending him to jail.



I never knew he was responsible for that storyline. I kinda liked that one.

Hey ChickenGrrl you'll be in my neck of the woods! Too bad you're not coming into Dulles, you'd practically be in my back yard.


Word. She's the most one note character they have, which is saying a lot since they're almost all one note these days. Her whole reason for living is to get Shawn. She has no other purpose, motivation or goal in life. Send her back to downtown Europe or pack her and Nicole off to Murderess Row in Chicago. I'm sure they can work up a little song and dance number to keep themselves amused.


*hee* As much as it pains me to say something that could be considered defending JERk (and let me get in my 'fuck you, JERk before I forget) I think that particular story comes from the fact that soaps are the only shows on TV that have their major characters leave the show and then come back. They know a character and/or actor is popular so when the actor finds out that those "career opportunities" that they left the soap for are nonexistent the producers have to go through all of these contortions to explain how the 'dead' (Reva, Hope, Roman, Tad, etc) are walking the earth again or how they've been alive all of this time but never contacted any of their friends and family still in Salem, Pine Valley, etc. On prime time if you're gone you're gone. Did David Caruso come back to NYPD Blue? Did Chrissy move back in with Jack and Janet on Three's Company? Jimmy Smits go back to NYPD Blue? Nope. The only time they did the soap resurrection in prime time we got the infamous 'Bobby was in the shower and the whole season was a dream' on Dallas that people are still talking shit about decades after the fact.

But you know, all of the shows doing crappy shock driven storylines should take note of the fact that Y&R and B&B are consistently two of the highest rated soaps on the air and try to emulate them instead of being a bad Friday the 13th ripoff. They manage to tell stories that people love and follow that don't feature talking dolls, witches, demonic possessions, serial killers or a town that looks like Logan's Run because everyone over 30 has been killed off.

*sniffles* I wanna go to DC with my SisterWife to meet my BrotherHusband. Somebody come kidnap me from the dirrty South.

I just had to say something about John's Matrix moves today before I left for class. Really, there are no words; only laughter. The Matrix rip-offs on Power Rangers Time Force were done better, and that's saying something.

"Practically perfect in everyway"? Now I'm imagining Marlena singing Mary Poppins songs. "Just a syringe full of poison makes the medicine go dooown."

Now, that might amuse me. Throw in Marlena or is that Hattie?, and I think we've got something here.

I really loved Carrie and Mike, but I would rather they stay away because returning them to the show at this point would only screw them up. Look at what happened to Jack and Jennifer!

Besides, as long as JERk is helming this show, I refuse to watch. Hell, even if he leaves, at this point, with what they did to Alice in particular, I'm not coming back. BUT, I'd certainly love reading Early Edition recaps if Carrie did come back ... engaged to Brandon. That would certainly rock Scami's world!

Never, actually. I know of them, but...

As for Rhasaan and Bill Jr., I heard it through the grapevine. This was back during Higley's run.

Incredible post, aswaty. I'm almost glad I missed today's horrible show, featuring the murder.

Wow. I had promised myself I would watch till the end of Frances Reid's run as (Live) Alice, then quit. But I just couldn't make it through today's episode, my disgust is so great. To see her treated so shabbily...

I've quit watching before, because of poor writing, then started up again when it's bounced back. But I think this time Corday and JerK have crossed the Rubicon. I can't imagine ever going back to it now. I'll still catch up on it by proxy through the wonderful snarkiness of this forum, but that's it.

I'll say this...John's Matrix moves today gave me a slight glimmer of hope that the Days "Twist" is that Salem really is some kind of Matrix-13th Floor-Dark City-Big O-St. Elsewhere Finale-type simulation/dream/experiment. If so, then this is the one time I'm hoping the dreaded "Reset Button" is put to good use...

The important distinction here is that Days is number one in the key demographic of girls 12-18. This is the most important demo to advertisers on daytime, not the overall household rating or females 18-40 (which used to be the key demo on daytime until the mid-90's). This also explains why Days and most other soaps have been skewed toward childish, juvenile characters and storylines. It's unfortunate they don't think girls in that age range want to watch anything but kids but that's what they think.

RE: Marlena really being Hattie (and that's more speculation than spoiler at this point) - if that turns out to be true, not only will it prove JERk to be the biggest liar in the world (since he stated over and over from the very beginning it wasn't the case) - it also makes him the laziest writer ever to write, since that's the most obvious and easiest solution and the first one everyone and their brother guessed when this whole thing started.

RE: Jan re-cast - this smacks of trying to "remake the character" in a more sympathetic light, which suggests they intend to make Jan even more prominent on the show than she has been thus far. Which suggests a return to teen-(ish) dominated stories. Which suggests major suckage of the ass.

Oooo, I would like that! Thanks, NicoleMN6

And aswaty , GREAT post. I was wondering if you would join us in our letter writing campaign. Thanks to DaiquiriS post on page 360 and ChickenGrrl on page 358, there are plenty of addresses and people from which to choose.
I don't know if it will make a difference, but my disgust at this horrible writing grows daily, and as much as I love this board, I know I need to vent to the assholes who really need to hear it.

Missed today's show, but I will catch it tonight.. (thanks Soapnet!)... Looking forward to a good laugh at The Eyebrow meets the Matrix....

And of course, Fuck you Jerk and a big ass fat Fuck you Corday b/c I just read that awful article in SOD. You suck.

WTF??? Haaa. John's dodging bullets now! That gave me the best laugh in a while. John's has to be some sort of cyborg or something.

Alice Horton I love you. I'm sorry they are treating you like this.

Has anyone else read the Early Edition yet? I started tearing up when I read about Alice. They might've spared us from seeing Marlena shove the donut down her throat, but Bope finds Alice, slumped in her chair and barely alive. Thanks a lot, Days, for making us watch this poor woman die. Oh, and again Shawn is the one comforting Belle when it's his fucking family member that died. I've only been watching on a consistent basis for about three to four years, but this still makes me feel sad and angry. You go to Hell, JERk and Corday. You go to Hell, and you die.

Really? From the commercials I see on daytime I thought the key demo was:

• the overweight
• the unemployed or underemployed
• people looking to sue someone for any slight real or imagined
• the 'happy homemaker' crowd
• women who find joy in feminine hygiene products

At least, those are what we see in the DC area. If they keep fucking up the show they should have Zoloft or Wellbutrin sponsor DOOL since a sizeable portion of their audience will need it.

I think I'm alone, but I don't care about anyone they've killed off so far, and Alice is in the middle of the list for me. Hated Roman more, hated Cassie less. All other victims = zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*sanctimoniousblahblahlecturejudge*zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Alice has been boring me for fucking years. I watch this show to see something other than what I might find in my own life. If I wanted to hear the ramblings of an old lady or watch her look confused, that's not too hard to find.

Personally, I'm having 0 problems with this storyline. It's actually a tiny bit interesting, and although it means suffering through Bo, Shawn, John do their stupid angry hero routine, there is at least hope that one of them could end up dead - people are dying at a good clip, after all. It's now at least a semi-realistic possibility.

She's not my grandma, so I have no loyalty to her personally. I'm sure she's got a little dough stored away from this gig. As for her character, I can't remember the last time she did something that interested me.

You're probably right. This is what happens when different closed captioners work on different portions of the same episode (and "DOOL" doesn't send its captioners a copy of the script)...I didn't know exactly what had happened to Shawn's car, and it vaguely sounded like "ass" to me.

Hmm. While schemer has a point that Alice hasn't DONE anything interesting in years, per se, I don't think that was the point of her character. She existed to give the show a sense of reality and history -- she was the last remaining original cast member since it began 40 years ago, after all -- and her mere presence balanced out a lot of the flighty, outlandish and soapy storylines. (For example, the teen ruby adventure, or earlier on, Hope's multiple identity crises. And, of course, Christmas every year.)

Plus, if you really think about it, all the characters that have been killed off have been crucial to the show over the years. Without Victor Kiriakis or Tony DiMera, the show has no more classy villains -- the best kind. (I guess JERk prefers pervy villains, of the Alister Crane variety.) Without Caroline or Alice, no more clan matriarchs.

Also, I think it's just out of control at this point that the serial killer has only killed people over the age of 40. The only exception was Cassie, but she wasn't one of JERk's staples of beefcake guys and I guess now that Jan's been brought in, the show didn't need any more "bad" girls.

So, basically, the show is now divided into two types of people: insipid/self-righteous and under the age of 50, or crazy and under the age of 50. Great.

ebonygoddess, that would be the logical daytime demo. In fact, that's what they usually get. ATWT and GL, in particular, get the above-50 demo in spades. I think NBC spearheaded the "go-young" campaign when JERk first did DAYS in the '90s. They wanted AW to go young and JFP ruined it in the process. So the 12-18 demographic want has been around for less than a decade, really.

[B]Brawleyguy[B], I hate to agree with you on this, but I do think that the reset button would be a good way to resolve this mess. Possibly a conculsion with it all being a bad dream do to experiments being done by Stefano and not so dead Dr. Rolf.

Of course, none of this will happen. I will admit that the murders of Jack and Abe really got me interested in the show. It made it seem like anything could happen; but then the death toll pilled up, and the story dragged along. Too many plot lines have been left untouched such as funerals for Victor or Tony, the reading of Tony's will, and what Tony was talking to Stefano about on his cell phone many murders ago. I feel that bringing Stefano back is the only thing that could save the show at this point. Jen, Nicole, and Marlena don't cut it as the villians of the show. The forecast looks cloudy unless Julian and Alistar Crane decide bring their corperate empire to Salem.

BTW, that brings a question to mind. Does anyone know if a network as ever done a soap crossover? I always wondered what kind of damage a Stefano/Victor/Alistar and Tony/Julian combination could do.

Exactly! What they're ending up with is a bunch of characters who all overlap in one or two molds now. And that will be boring.

You know why I worry about this show? What on earth will they do to top this storyline? They'll have to try, right? They can't really go back to traditional soap stories, and it's obvious the brass at NBC doesn't want that anyways, considering they insisting JERk head it up again. Dead in the water.

Currently, AMC and OLTL are in the midst of a newborn-baby-kidnapping storyline. They've swapped a fair number of characters, including OLTL's Dorian, who went to Pine Valley not too long ago. I don't think it was related to this story, though.

Back in '97, The City's Alex went to OLTL to help Bo track down Antonio, I think it was. It seems that ABC really perfected this soap crossover idea.

ABC has done them several/many times. In addition to the aforementioned AMC storyline, GH used to do them with PC, and Linda Dano was floating around all over the network for awhile.

edited because TheCustomofLife beat me to it and clarified things.