» 4-13: "There's No Place Like Home Part 2" 2008.05.29 Options

[michbunny]

They CANNOT have a scene of Daniel realizing there's no freighter to go to and deciding to turn around back to the island with red-shirts. He has to have that reaction/conversation with a real character...that being Jin.

Because of that weird time-flux from boat-to-island, I think Jin gets to Daniel's raft before Daniel even sees the freighter's smoke/explosion. Someone check to see if we can see all the faces or physiology of the people on the raft when they notice the bright light/digeroo sound. If he's clearly not on the raft then please disregard this. :)

I really like this idea, Tandemonium! I hope the Lost writers are thinking the same thing! However, to tweak it a bit, Jin will have to tell Daniel about the freighter exploding before Daniel realizes there's no freighter to go back to since he'll be wondering why Jin is floating out there in the ocean ;). Then, when time catches up, they'll see the freighter explode.

[cid]

I keep thinking about the whole universe course correcting thing. Locke keeps telling Jack they aren't supposed to leave - and I think we, as the audience, are meant to believe in that because of what have seen of the future.

Regardless of Ben telling Locke that whomever moves the island can never come back, I think Ben will get back. And whether he works with the O-6 solely for his own purposes or not, he will be helping to set things right. Maybe they have to get back to a time before Ben moved the island?

Desmond and Penny seem a little too neatly wrapped up.

[FourEyedNerd]

The touching reunion I most hope to see at the very end of the series is when Walt is reunited with Vincent.

After seeing Sawyer jump from the helicopter only to return to the godforsaken island while both Jin and Michael "die," I can't even look at Jack or Kate. And if Kate called Aaron "my son" one more time....I was gonna lose it for sure.

I hear ya. I really dislike the fact that out of only 5 people who “survived” (plus bay-bee), 2 of them are the two characters I care least about – Jack and Kate.

Christian: “You can go now, Michael.”
Michael: “Who are you?!”
Christian: “…….I’m Batman.”

So Claire who is with Dr. Shephard who is a conduit of Jacob delivers a message to Kate not to go back to the Island; but Ben tells Jack they all have to go back or there is no getting back. Does that mean Ben and Jacob are at odds now??

I don’t think we can assume that Christian really is speaking for Jacob. I think Claire (or whatever the hell that vision may be) is clearly working for the side of eeeeevilllll, whatever the F that side is. I think Christian is some evil being who has taken Jacob prisoner, and he has Claire on his side. During Locke's first visit to the cabin, wispy-haired Jacob did say “Help me….”

Glad they killed off all/most of the red shirts. Now we just have red shirt Others.

Hell, they probably are the same actors; they just switched costumes.

I know this has been ranted about over and over, but here goes...
I’m really quite disappointed with the truth behind the cover story. Jack’s the one who created the story?!? No wonder it’s so lame. And why does he all the sudden take Locke’s word that they have to lie? He doesn’t really have any information from Locke as to why, because he didn’t take the time to ask him. Why this sudden epiphany? And if the O6 came up with the cover story themselves, why not just make Claire one of the ones who survived the crash and just died after giving birth? Does it have something to do with what they found out from Penny about her dad or the island? I understand why they had to make up some sort of lie; I just don't like the way it worked out.

The other three were Libby, Desmond and Boone apparently

But “why?”, is the question. What’s the point?

Am I the only one who saw mad Sayid/Kate chemistry in their brief interactions during this episode? Coulda woulda shoulda, I guess, particularly if Kate winds up on the Widmore side of the Widmore/Ben conflict.

No, you’re not – it’s like Evangeline Lilly has chemistry with everyone but Matthew Fox.

I hope Kate teams up with Sayid and Ben. That's a kick-ass team right there!!

I doubt she will team up with Ben if she is refusing to go back to the island.

ETA:

I disagree. I think there is an underlying, albeit weird interpretation of goodness in Ben. He's coming back to help the gang get back to the island. He may have some other motivation thrown in there, but I think in the end we're going to see a clear dichotomy.

Also Ben's officially won me over. He had me at: "So?"

See, that did the opposite for me. I know has done a lot of bad stuff, but I could always justify it b/c I kept telling myself it was for the good of the island and everyone on it, including the Losties (with the exception of gambling with Alex’s life). But choosing to kill Keamy in spite of knowing about the remote bomb killed any love I had for the character. He is no longer a lovable bad guy to me; he is a straight-up bastard. He thought only of himself just like he thought only of himself when he wouldn’t surrender when Keamy was about to kill Alex. But maybe that’s how we’re supposed to feel. Maybe the writers have finally made the choice to make the character pretty evil, instead of waffling with it. Come to think of it, him killing Keamy the way he did shows that he doesn’t “always have a plan”, or at least not a good plan, and for me casts doubt upon the viability of any plans he may have in the future.

Who the fuck leaves a perfectly good boat just because some Jackass told you you had to?

No way in hell would he be able to convince me to leave Penny's boat. She obviously has some kind of power if she's got her own damn tracking station.

Good points. If I was one of those characters I would have run off with Desmond and Penny. As many people have pointed out, all these characters were not happy with the lives they were living before they crashed on the island. Even Sun no longer has Jin, so why not run off with Pes and try to figure some things out that way. Oh well, I’ve never been stranded on a weird, creepy island, so I can’t relate to how desperate they were to get back to the U.S.

When Keamy was down in the Orchid, did I hear him call Richard Ben’s “boyfriend”? Hee!

And one thing I’ve always wondered is why Richard is not the true leader in the first place. The character of Richard really intrigues me (aside from the fact that he's pretty to look at - those eyes......those lashes.....that eyeliner.....)

This post has been edited by FourEyedNerd: May 30, 2008 @ 10:25 pm.

[jbean]

How do we know there was no time jumping? We don't know how long she was sitting there on the beach watching the smoke. That kind of thing, esp. with the oil slick on top (as seen from the heliocopter) could take DAYS to burn off. Also, sawyer may have been swimming for a long time they were pretty far out.

Also, we don't know how long it took for ben and Keamy and Locke to do all that, it could have been 24 hours.

I also wonder, how much more we would have gotten without the writers strike. We lost 3 episodes this season which is HUGE for Lost.

I am giving them the benifit of the doubt that they gave the audience what they had been asking for and wanted to give everyone some answers so they can go back an wrap up other plotlines.

I also think the island jumped in time, not space. It is in the future now.

[trashophile]

I've gone back and forth many times on whether the rationale for the coverup is convincing. Here's my best case:

Suppose the 06 do the obvious thing and tell part of the truth, the part that includes an island and other crash survivors, omitting smoke monsters, ghosts and time travel. An expedition is sent out to find the others. BUT THE ISLAND ISN'T THERE, so the survivors can't be rescued. So telling the truth has no upside, and the possibility the 06 will talk does give Widmore an incentive to kill them unless they make clear as soon as possible that they will play along.

This explains the lie, but it doesn't explain how the lie protects the other survivors. Widmore already wants them dead. Also, Jack never pointed out the futility of telling the truth.

[FlickerToAFlame]

Something that's been bothering me about the coverup story is how anybody believes the O6 survived on that raft for months. I may have missed something, but all those people on the coverup island see the O6 come ashore several months after the plane supposedly crashed. There's no way anybody could have survived on that raft for so long. Can anybody explain this to me?

[FourEyedNerd]

FlickerToAFlame:
From what I remember in "There's No Place Like Home" Part 1, the cover story says that the plane crashed near a little known island named Membata(?), and they lived there for a few months. Then something about a typhoon causing a boat to wash up on that island, and they used that boat to travel to the bigger island where they were found by people on the beach. That's what I remember from the story the Oceanic rep was giving to the press.

[lulee]

The other three were Libby, Desmond and Boone apparently

No, not Desmond, Charlie was the 3rd "survivor" of the crash. There are some parallels between their cover stories and what really happened: Jack said that Charlie drowned "a few weeks before we were able to leave". (roughly true) Boone Carlyle died of massive internal injuries "a few days after the crash" (putting his death chronologically first of those who made it off the island. Jack said Libby didn't make it through the first week - in reality, she barely made it 2 weeks with the main group before Michael shot her. Sun says Jin "never made it off the plane", but after last night, we can substitute "freighter" for plane and it was true.

[Ethereal Zoe]

Regardless of Ben telling Locke that whomever moves the island can never come back, I think Ben will get back.

I think he will too, and not just because I believe he could have totally been lying when he said that. At the very least, he may not have been telling the completely truth. When he talks to Jack in the funeral parlor, he's pretty clearly saying "we" need to go back - - including himself. I figure that either:

1) People who move the island cannot come back under their own power, but can by happenstance (say if he he happens to be on a plane with the O6 when the go back, like the other folks on 815) or

2) He's just telling Locke that so that Locke wouldn't complain about not going with him.

Either way, I have no doubt Ben will get back on the Island again.

An expedition is sent out to find the others. BUT THE ISLAND ISN'T THERE, so the survivors can't be rescued. So telling the truth has no upside, and the possibility the 06 will talk does give Widmore an incentive to kill them unless they make clear as soon as possible that they will play along.

But that's exactly what doesn't make sense to me. The O6 know the Island isn't there anymore, and they have no clue at all where it is now. So how would it be protecting anyone to lie when they couldn't lead anyone to the rest of the survivors, even if they wanted to. I think you're right about the lie helping the O6, but I don't seem how anybody else would benefit or suffer from them telling the truth. Well, other than Desmond maybe, but that's another story.

Also, at the point where they all get on Penny's boat, are any of the O6 even aware that Charles Widmore is dangerous? I've been assuming that knowledge didn't come until later, especially since they didn't seem to have much problem with getting on Penny Widmore's boat.

[lulee]

FlickerToAFlame:
From what I remember in "There's No Place Like Home" Part 1, the cover story says that the plane crashed near a little known island named Membata(?), and they lived there for a few months. Then something about a typhoon causing a boat to wash up on that island, and they used that boat to travel to the bigger island where they were found by people on the beach. That's what I remember from the story the Oceanic rep was giving to the press.

Yes, from lostpedia:

The survivors were in the water for over a day, afloat on cushions and some life jackets, before being carried by the ocean's current to an uninhabited island in the lesser Sunda Islands known as Membata. By then, there were only eight of them left. (...) After 103 days on Membata, a typhoon washed up the remnants of an Indonesian fishing boat, including basic supplies and a survival raft. The group of 6 (five crash survivors plus Aaron) used this raft to journey to an island called Sumba on day 108, where the six came ashore and were photographed by a local fisherman.

[peeayebee]

Ben's "so?"

It was in character but creepily similar to Dick Cheney's identical comment during a March interview.

Great catch! I'm convinced this was an intentional reference by the writers.

[shapeshifter]

Who else thinks Sawyer/Juliet hooked up right there on the beach? She was drunk, he was shirtless, both think that their true loves just blew up on the boat.... ripe for some desperation sex.

He's just not her type.

[jooseyloosey]

Here's the one surprise to me after watching: During all that trauma, jumping onto the helicopter, watching boat and husband explode, crashing in said helicopter, getting dragged into a lifeboat, etc etc, Sun's pregnancy remains viable. Amazing how resilient of a fetus Ji Yeon was. At the end of the episode, I was like, "Sun didn't miscarry during all that? Whoa."

One tricky thing for Sun with the Big Lie is that, according to their story, she will have been pregnant a LONG time, not shorter. It's Kate's "pregnancy" that will have been quite short, and miraculously ended with such a chubby, healthy baby!

It's Kate's dream, so Kate's sub-conscious is being portrayed, and Kate does not want to go back to the island.

I concur. I didn't actually catch the American accent myself, but since EDR is actually Australian, it wasn't a 'slip' and the American accent was intentional. I think that's meant to show that unlike Hurley and Jack, she isn't seeing dead people, but projecting her own dead person to alieviate her guilt, if she's capable of feeling guilty.

This is exactly what I thought, too.

Count me in with those who believe that Sun is playing Charles Widmore, and is only scheming to get close to him in order to bring him down.

Totally loved Juliet drinking the Dharma rum. Those Dharma folks thought of all the necessities.

And y'all, Jin's dead.

This post has been edited by jooseyloosey: May 30, 2008 @ 11:15 pm.

[idledandy]

1) People who move the island cannot come back under their own power, but can by happenstance

Or maybe if they're dead, and then they get revived? I wouldn't be surprised if next season's finale involves Ben asking Jack to kill him.

Amazing how resilient of a fetus Ji Yeon was. At the end of the episode, I was like, "Sun didn't miscarry during all that? Whoa."

I guess the island doesn't want her to die, either, which is strange considering the island is pretty anti-baby.

So did the Tunisian polar bear move the island last?

If they did indeed move the island in time, it could explain some of that life-extension stuff. Maybe Alvar Hanso wasn't really over 100. He just time-jumped a little, so it was 100+ years past his birthday, but he only experienced 85 or so of them.

Assuming they move it forward, it's a great way to hide for awhile, because in the intervening time, it's actually not anywhere. You'd have to wait for it to reappear, and you wouldn't know where or when.

I don't get the "lying to save those we left behind" either. It makes a great deal of sense for self-preservation, but less for the stated reason of protecting Sawyer, Juliet, etc.

This post has been edited by idledandy: May 30, 2008 @ 11:31 pm.

[GribbleFritz]

And why does he all the sudden take Locke’s word that they have to lie? He doesn’t really have any information from Locke as to why, because he didn’t take the time to ask him. Why this sudden epiphany?

For a while, Jack immediately and irrationally disbelieved every word Locke says. If you want to live, you need to come with me. No one's going anywhere with you, John. It's a place where miracles happen. There's no such thing as miracles. Naw. No miracles. Like you seeing ghost daddy roaming the island or bumping into that Desmond guy here on this wacky island 3 years later. Not miraculous at all. Or the button pushing which you thought was a psych test but turned out to be in fact real. The list goes on.

Anyway, Hurley tells Jack that Locke moved the island. "He didn't move the island." Rofl. So Hurley hits him upside the head with some reality. Jack ponders. Dammit. The island DID move. So Locke was right. About this? About EVERYTHING? Oh damn. IMHO, at least.

edited to add - Right before this, Kate says "it's a miracle" about Aaron being OK on the lifeboat which gets a look from Jack.

The other three were Libby, Desmond and Boone apparently

But “why?”, is the question. What’s the point?

Actually, it was Boone, Libby, and CHARLIE. Desmond wasn't even on 815. Lol. I don't know why Boone and Charlie. Surely, announcing the few who survived at least a while is an invitation to friends and family to appear in a flashback/flashforward/whatever we'll be treated to next season. So Libby is a slam dunk way to learn more about her, I think.

Someone else mentioned why Keamy would have explosives on the frieghter as a gambit. Why would Ben care. I asked this very question after Cabin Fever. The best I can come up with are the enigmatic "rules." Ben tells Michael he doesn't kill innocent people. And it could be argued that he hasn't, depending on your definition of innocent. However, Alex was an innocent. The rules have been changed. So screw the innocents. It isn't airtight, but it is the only reason I can think of that Keamy would mention the innocents on the boat and think Ben would care.

This post has been edited by GribbleFritz: May 31, 2008 @ 1:12 am.