» 1-9: "Finale" 2008.05.29 Options

[EagerContrarian]

but she is currently piloting two of the biggest dance juggernauts in musical entertainment right now: Hannah Montana and High School Musical

I thought that Kenny Ortega, Bonnie Story and Charles Klapow were the main credited choreographers for the HSM brand.

There is absolutely zero reason to use an adjective like snob when remarking about a dancers performance quality. Now, if you are referring to a spectator and their opinions about what constitutes good dancing, dance, or performance quality, then the adjective could be apt.

Nancy really lost me in how she talked so positively about Miguel and Janelle after seeing them struggle, while she saves all her bullets for Cody. I used to think it was that she sees the potential in him, but given her choice of words, it's clearly something else. Jealousy? Hate? Disdain? Did he beat out one of her students for a part somewhere down the line? It's something.

This post has been edited by EagerContrarian: May 30, 2008 @ 12:53 pm.

[Mimi10022]

She cannot, attack dancers on a personal level, especially when they’re requesting clarification on her notes.
I don’t know if Cody pissed her off in an earlier episode and she hasn’t forgiven him, she’d rather work with a “raw” dancer, she’s more physically attracted to Nick, she doesn’t like technical dancers, she’s more in tune with video dancers, or what ….. lately Nancy seems to have personal issues with Cody

Last night, it became very clear to me that Nancy is not that bright and that she has it in for Cody. In the rehearsal, she responded to the people who came to her for emotional needs and that is extremely unprofessional. Perhaps she was picking on Cody for being "cold" because he didn't suck up to her or let her destroy him emotionally, but treated her like a colleague.
Maybe he should have mugged and smirked, but that's not him. He seems like a quiet, reserved guy. There's nothing more annoying than someone bugging you to "be yourself" when they really mean "be like me".

[OptimisticCynic]

There are also those of who don't have kids, and even if I did, wouldn't let Disney near my kids to shove hannah montanna and high school musical down their throats. I know this stuff is bringing in the big bucks right now, but I don't care for it and never will. I do however love to watch good dancing be it salsa, flamenco, tap, break, hip hop, etc...so I will sneer as much as I want when it comes to Nancy O'meara.

And just because it is more popular on a mass scale (and I would hold a lot of HSM's success to Kenny Ortega), that doesn't make it better. To use a similar example, just because people recognize the choreography in a Britney Spears video, does not make Dan Karaty a brilliant choreographer. Contrast that with someone like Wade Robson, who has found success in the popular commerical arena but knows how to convey to dancers what he wants and whose opinion I respect and I would call a brilliant choreographer. Sometimes it is more about packaging and marketing when gaining exposure than actual talent IMO.

I'm sure Omeara is sufficient at what she does, however, I don't think she's the best person, from her sugar pop/tween background, to belittle other dancers for not bringing emotion and depth to performance. Whereas Robson has more versatility in his choregraphy background. The reason I made my comment about Twyla Tharp upthread is because from what I've read about her she's a perfectionist, and demands a hell of a lot out of her dancers, both technically, and emotionally (she's an artist who really puts forth meaning in her pieces)- but she knows how to give feedback and direct her dancers. I can't really express it any better than this NY Times feature on Movin' Out. Here is an excerpt:

For Ms. Tharp's intricate, high-speed choreography cannot be performed at anything less than full tilt. Just as a jet plane won't fly at 25 miles per hour, Ms. Tharp's dances demand the kind of commitment from her performers that cannot be faked or approximated. It has to be present in every moment, at every performance. In bringing her hard-charging blend of ballet and vernacular dance to Broadway, Ms. Tharp created a vehicle that delivers, every single night, the exhilarating high that we look to musical theater for, and too rarely find...The dancers in "Movin' Out" rely only on their own limbs and their own energies to communicate with the audience; the relationship between dancer and viewer is a direct one, uncompromised by the distancing tool of technology. The result is a pure and constant engagement between performers and audiences that other Broadway shows cannot easily match.

I just think for Omeara to claim that Cody is incapable of feeling during his dancing is a really ridiculous statement. I can't speak for "Grease" because that is fluffier show than Movin' Out that I do not plan on seeing, but MO, especially as it progressed in its run and its relevancy became more poignant with the political and social climates of our country, it was very important to Twyla to keep that integrity in tact. I mean, to give it context, the Republican National Convention "banned" it for their members - which demonstrates that there was a visceral reaction from the audience on an emotional level rather than just executing of the steps on behalf of the dancers.

There was a point behind that show, especially the characters that Cody portrayed on tour and in Broadway. I just don't believe she would cast Cody in that show without having faith in him that he could emotionally deliver, and while I agree he had a more "cold feel" in his performance, I think it is a matter of time to master both the technique and emotion. I've heard dancers in long runs of shows like Movin' Out explain that the longer they were in the show, the more they were able to connect to the material and find different nuances to it. I think Cody is the same way - especially when he feels there is a lot being demanded of him physically.

Do I still think he should have been more emotional during his performances in the show last night? Yes. But I get the impression from Vincent and Nancy that they claim every guest choreographer has made the same claim to Cody - (some of that must have been edited out because I did not see those criticisms made). And honestly, I'm not sure how much of that is a response to the vibe in the room and also producer influence. They want a character arc for each dancer, and to me it's as ridiculous as every judge commenting on Tovah's beauty rather than her performance. I'm sure there are some credible choreographers out there like Tharp who would add things of substance to their critique and that is what makes me reluctant to take any of Omeara's remarks seriously because she never says anything specific. Jerry Mitchell, I trust. If he thinks that Cody needs to add more emotion, I believe him. When he pinpoints it exactly - I get it. And I've grown to respect Vincent more.

This post has been edited by OptimisticCynic: May 30, 2008 @ 1:14 pm.

[lokison]

I did reach a newfound level of respect for Nomi, though, who respectfully and articulately disagreed with Nancy. In return, Nancy was rude and condescending. I don't care if she was choreographing Swan Lake, Nancy O'Meara comes off as classless, petty, and mean. If she was such a great choreographer, she wouldn't need to diminish others, IMO.

[tracygee]

There's nothing more annoying than someone bugging you to "be yourself" when they really mean "be like me".

That's an excellent comment. It illuminates for me why some people found Nick's performance amazingly moving, and I thought it was a bit cheesy. Why? Because, to me, that's not where the song pulled me. And each and every person is going to express and experience the music in a different way. So, basically, I'm looking for someone that would move in a way I would move (if I could...ha!).

It kind of pulls me into the basic problem with telling someone to "emote" or show "passion". These words are very subjective. What the choreographer is looking for is not 'emotion' or 'passion'...it is a very specific feel for the piece. What emotion? If I am joyous and I feel it by grinning from ear to ear and jumping around, is that what you're looking for? If I'm feeling pissed off and I express that with a grimace, knashing my teeth and clenching my fists...is that it?

I have no problem that a choreographer expects the dancers to show the exact emotion they're looking for...but if that's the case, instead of telling them to 'dig deep', 'let go', show emotion and passion, tell them something specific like, "This man in the mirror piece is about someone who has lost their way, they're unsure of themselves...when the music changes right here, that's when he finds his place, he's confident, excited," etc. These type of cues are really helpful for actors. I just really feel that a conversation like this would be soooo much more helpful than "you're snobby" or "let go".

A generous choreographer can (and probably does) let the dancers go wherever they want to go, emotionally, with the piece. That's really hard to do, though, with a group piece where everyone needs to be in synch. It's why Cody stood out (in a bad way)...he wasn't matching what the others were putting in.

This post has been edited by tracygee: May 30, 2008 @ 1:09 pm.

[Critter4551]

Do I still think he should have been more emotional during his performances in the show last night? Yes. But I get the impression from Vincent and Nancy that they claim every guest choreographer has made the same claim to Cody - (some of that must have been edited out because I did not see those criticisms made).

I read that in Nancy's blog and have to call BS on it ....... didn't Cody receive compliments from the guest choreographer for his "performance quality/emotional connection" in both the Broadway and Modern challenge. I thought he was told to "rein it back in" during the video challenge as well .... so obvisoulsy he hasn't always been told by the guest judges to "let go" or be "less cold" ... and in fact it was Nancy and not the guest judge who used the word "cold" during the Latin challenge.

[bethnor]

Cody, on the other hand, had been slobbered over in the first five episodes, then I think he got comfortable... Cody is paying them now [dues]

With all due respect, I will again point out that any respect/adulation that Cody has as a dancer, he's earned. It may be that, at the very beginning, he got a pass based on his looks. But up until this episode, I would say that he was the only contestant that had never given a mediocre performance (with several outstanding), audition or callback or whatever (even though, technically, his performance this time around was still spot on. Okay maybe the Stomp wasn't that great but everyone was horrible). I think that's worth something--actually, I think that's worth alot, and if I had a dance corps, a trait that I would value.

I don't think he got comfortable. Actually, it's quite interesting--many of the competitors think he's "the one to beat." But when you go to the bonus footage, he's doesn't know who's going to win and thinks it would be "nice" if it were him. Of course, this could all be some kind of false humility, but I have no reason to take him at anything but his word.

Ironically, in the Latin challenge, he gave Nick some good advice when Nick was ready to throw in the towel: "figure out what makes you unique, and go over the top." ... Why Cody isn't following his own advice anymore is anyone's guess. Maybe when he gets critiqued, he turns inward.

Well, in all fairness, he did go over the top for the Umbrella challenge. He was told by Tina to pull back, and he was told by Nancy that she wanted him to be more pedestrian. But not a minute later she goes back to her blog and says he lacks a performance quality. Which one is it? There is a reason why there is a general perception amongst the viewers that Cody is getting schizophrenic advice from the judges (even though there is an underlying theme of wanting more emoting).

She doesn't have time to make it nice.

I want to echo previous sentiments and add my own. Part of the problem with the language she used was that it creates a perception of bias. You can tell by several of the responses that many viewers perceive that Nancy has something against Cody, whereas many also perceive that she has something for Nick. Whether or not she actually does is immaterial. If we perceive that she has something against him, how can we believe that any opinion that she has about him holds water? For that matter, why should he? She seems upset that he's not listening to her, and it was part of her judging process as well. Why should he listen to her if she thinks ill of him without good reason? Why should I believe that any judgements she gives him are fair? On her charming good word? If she doesn't want to moderate her language, this is America, that's her choice, but then she can't complain if people accuse her of bias (something a judge should not have).

To be perfectly clear, I agree with the judging outcome last night, if not the manner it was delivered.

And, I actually think that had a lot to do with his performance. Why do your best when the person who you're dancing for thinks you're an asshole? Now that I think about it, part of the consternation that I think you see on Cody's face during his dancing is, that thinking about what his next move should be, he's not quite sure what he's supposed to do to please this woman. Don't dance like an asshole? How exactly does one do that? And I honestly think that's the major difference between this ep and every other one, and why, up until now, I don't think any of his performances were mediocre.

The whole "no time" thing is a myth. You can be successful--and nice. If things are a certain way, it's because we make them that way, not because it has to be that way.

This post has been edited by bethnor: May 30, 2008 @ 6:25 pm.

[vallegirl]

You needn't be nice or a jerk. And I think she clearly knew she was being a jerk to Cody, and being one on purpose, because when he asked her to use a less judgmental word, she immediately found "cold" and then told him not to get defensive and shut him down.

And when Berkley told her he's not a snob and attempted to defend him, she cut her off immediately, as well. Nancy, for whatever reason, wanted to get the last word in both times, and she wanted that last word to be an insult.

Regardless of what she says, unless she only has a second grade education, she knows the difference between "cold" and "snob" and she was insistent that he was a "snob." I don't know why she wanted to be such a nasty piece of work with and about him, but I think she really wanted to slam him, and not just for his dancing.

[Mwcdeb8r]

And, O'Meara gave the same exact critique not once, but twice. Cody, during auditions, asked for a more helpful phrasing of her "snob" critique. She said cold. Then, during the "callback audition", instead of giving Cody a more thoughtful critique of his second, and different performance, Nancy just repeated her same critique. She had time to think of better feedback for Cody, particularly after he asked for it, and she clearly 1) couldn't come up with anything better, even after he asked for more helpful terminology beyond the word "snob" 2) she is dumb enough to believe that Cody really dances like a snob. Both of those things says volumes about her as a judge, teacher, and mentor.

No wonder Cody shut down. He rightfully perceived her (and possibly Vincent's) bias against him.

[polpetti]

I can't believe Nancy made it through an entire episode without comparing the men to food products. Kudos to Nancy!

I love Cody's dancing and I don't see why he should cheese it up to make Nancy happy if that's not within him. Having heard his backstory though, I wonder if he's scared to really open up on stage because if it starts, he might not be able to get it to stop. Maybe he doesn't think he needs to have a breakdown on a reality show.

I have to say that I can identify with not wanting to really give very much to someone who's treating you like crap. I've had choreographers who could really push you to your limits but be respectful and helpful about it and I've worked with people who think the way to get something out of you is to demean you. Some people can take the demeaning comments and it will drive them to perform, but others just shut down and get a fuck you attitude about it. I kind of have a bad habit of falling into that second camp. I'm someone who responds to respect and if possible, encouragement.

My opinion of the choreographers who treat you like garbage is that they're not smart enough to figure out how to be positive and still get what they want. In the end, I might admire their work, but I don't admire them. If Cody is used to working with someone who's really professional and intelligent, then maybe he does have a snobby attitude towards working with someone who's so emotionally stunted herself.

Of course, maybe he's going to collapse with emotion in the finale and it will have all be a set-up for his redemption brought on by Nancy's brilliant guidance.

I gained a lot of respect for Elisabeth for sticking up for him. Nancy can suck it.

[crackinup]

The whole "no time" thing is a myth. You can be successful--and nice. If things are a certain way, it's because we make them that way, not because it has to be that way.

A-frickin'-men. You just don't have to be obnoxious or clipped to be successful, even in the entertainment industry. Nancy's frustrated that she's having trouble directing Cody, so she's overcompensating for her insecurity by being callous and awkwardly inappropriate. What could possibly be more condescending than someone you don't like speaking to you like you're an SNL parody? "Codester, I just don't know what to do with you, you masterful Julliard grad broadway and film starring snob, you. You just entirely lack emotion, except when you're too over the top." No wonder Cody doesn't absorb her notes. She must sound completely ridiculous to someone with his experience and talent. I think Nancy's onto something, mind you, but like a few others have already noted, her delivery is entirely counterproductive. Meantime, Vincent tends to say largely the same thing, but with more tact and specifics, and suddenly the dancers listen.

Reminds me of the Dan/Blake drama in S1 of SYTYCD. Cody is, of course, far more polite about it than Blake was, but the premise of "student with greater talent than teacher frustrates teacher" is the same.

At the same time, I admire how Nick has figured out how to handle similarly ridiculous feedback. I initially didn't catch Nick's "What's that?" response to Nancy's totally unnecessary, "I was starting to think you're deaf." Taking someone's stupidity and turning it into a funny joke that has them busting up laughing. Genius. My blossoming adoration of Nick knows no boundaries.

I can't believe Nancy made it through an entire episode without comparing the men to food products. Kudos to Nancy!

I just have to repost this quote because of the awesome irony of the second sentence. That is all.

On a separate note, how could we all forget? "Oh Mickey you're so fine, you're so fine you blow my mind, Hey Mickey! *clap clap...clap* Hey Mickey! *clap clap...clap*." They totally should have played that during Janelle's home interview, that would have been all sorts of clever hilarity with this week's completely random guest star.

This post has been edited by crackinup: May 30, 2008 @ 11:41 pm.

[LogCabinPat]

It went in one ear and out the other.

Yes, aided on it's speedy way by the emptiness in between.

[rddugan]

... some people found Nick's performance amazingly moving, and I thought it was a bit cheesy. Why? Because, to me, that's not where the song pulled me. And each and every person is going to express and experience the music in a different way. So, basically, I'm looking for someone that would move in a way I would move (if I could...ha!).

Well, I had to watch the performance again a few times. I must say I really like Nick and did enjoy seeing the emotion, it looked like happiness I guess. He seemed to let go very much. However, I also agree with the comment above - it didn't seem fitting to me. (In contrast, Mochi's emotion seemed a bit over the top, to me anyway, given the song's theme.)

The song mentioned seeing homeless children and seemed to be about becoming less selfish / a better person, and, although they were directed to make this "their story", it was kind of bizarre to see the happy performance. In watching the clip, I think Cody was trying to portray a more serious, reflective kind of emotion, which was actually more fitting with the song. That being said, I can understand what Vince was saying - he had the emotion a few times, but then he does the technique almost too perfectly, and it seemed to get in the way of the emotion. Hard to explain. I also think Toni had a good suggestion - that he should experience the emotion while dancing, rather than trying to portray a message to the audience. I have no doubt he can do this and I think it would be incredibly moving to watch. (He definitely does do this in his agent's video.)

I don't know how this will be taken, but the few times I did look at Miguel (which wasn't enough to have a real judgment about his performance) - I thought he was closest to the song in terms of the emotion. I liked the tie thing he did. My eyes never went to Janelle.

[bethnor]

What could possibly be more condescending than someone you don't like speaking to you like you're an SNL parody? "Codester, I just don't know what to do with you, you masterful Julliard grad broadway and film starring snob, you. You just entirely lack emotion, except when you're too over the top."

The Codester. The Codemeister. Makin' dancin'. Dancin' to music. The Codester dancin' to music'. Not enough emotion from the Codemeister.

On a separate note, how could we all forget? "Oh Mickey you're so fine, you're so fine you blow my mind, Hey Mickey! *clap clap...clap* Hey Mickey! *clap clap...clap*."

Nomi: "Janelle, it's time for your last dance."
Janelle: "But I don't wanna go!"
Nancy: "Janelle, this isn't a democracy, it's a cheer-rocracy"
Janelle: "You're being a total cheer-tator!"

[bemeek]

Isn't it amazing how many of us right-thinking people say that we would be fine with Cody, Mochi or Nick winning this thing? Hmmm... Could it be that they have been the ones who not only are good dancers but also have remained unfailingly positive and professional through this whole thing?

Yay, Nick won. He's just adorable, and I have really enjoyed watching him the last two weeks. Before, Cody or Mochi always seemed to be the ones catching my eye, but this last two weeks, I couldn't keep them off Nick. Now, I know absolutely nothing about dance, but his movements just seemed so fluid and effortless. I know Cody is a great athletic dancer, but many times it just doesn't work for me that every one of his movements seems designed to punch into a moment that could be immortalized in marble. For me it ends up feeling more like a bunch of still photos than like a flowing experience. I used to think that he dances too loud all the time. That probably makes no sense. However, I really admired his response to Stupid Disney Nancy, politely asking her to give him another adjective. She could take some lessons from him on professionalism. I felt really bad for him because he looked so utterly down. Nick looked pretty discouraged a couple of episodes ago, too, and he had rebounded by the next epi. I hope Cody feels better next week. And I wish Tovah and Oscar had been there this time instead of Janelle and Miguel. I wish they had given them this type of choreography to perform while they were still on the show.

Maybe I am just too old, but: I thought it was so cool Vincent was one of the only two zombies I remembered from the Thriller video so many years ago! Yeah, he was the one with the mouth full of goop (the other one I remember is the lady with the granny hat.) And: when I saw Janelle and her boyfriend hamming it up in their cheerleading video, all I could think of was Craig and Arianna, the Spartan Cheerleaders from SNL. I love those guys (Will Ferrell and Cheri Oteri, NOT Janelle and bf.)

I'm looking forward to Cody's solo, but I hope that when he nails it, Nancy doesn't take credit for telling him about emoting.

I hate when they do that on a competitive reality show. "See...you listened to my advice and now you are a STAR."

Absolutely. While Nancy was working with them on the rehearsals, I kept thinking that the bull she was slinging at them about finding themselves and so on was so reminiscent of the bull Tyra Banks slings on ANTM. And they totally do that on that show: "I broke you, and it has made you a much better person AND model!!!!!" (Tyra contorts backwards and kisses her own patootie.)

People who have kids know what I'm talking about.

Some of us have kids and keep them far, far, far away from Hannah Montana and HSM, and take them straight to (judiciously selected) Green Day, U2, Beatles, and Singin' in the Rain and (just the dances) SIUAD. I loved the delighted "OhmyGOSH!" my 7-year-old boy let out last week at Cody's jump in his group choreography.

So Nick, Mochi or Cody for the win! Is there any doubt it will be one of those three anyway?