» 6-21: "Made In America" 2007.06.10 (recap) Options

[Mooninite3]

I think Phil's arc is really interesting -- he's a traditional guy, and like Tony, suffered a health scare and seemed to mellow for a while.

But Phil got pissed when he thought Tony and his crew were disrespecting the traditions of the Family. Phil is old school -- see his speech last episode about how disgusted he was that Tony didn't even do time and was practically handed the job. He seems hard in all the places Tony was sometimes soft. Tony generally agonized over ordering whackings, and could let things go on too long (Ralphie, Vito). Phil ordered the hits on New Jersey and never looked back.

Or was Phil really still pissed because of the unauthorized whacking of his brother? Would he have been okay with the hit if it had gone through proper channels?

This is why I love Kim! I've been thinking a lot this season about what makes the Tony/Phil rivalry so interesting, and I think it's the pitting of new school against old school. Tony is a modern gangster; a lot of his decisions and character traits subvert the traditional, more stereotypical "macho" mobster role. In season one, his decision to participate in psychotherapy was highly controversial, and IIRC, was even one of the reasons why Uncle Jun tried to have him offed. His defense of Vito, his support of Tony B.'s decision to quit and become a massage therapist, and especially, his tremendous affection towards animals... all detract from his machismo. But I feel that Tony is a survivor because of this "softness"; he's not encumbered by adherence to traditions. His humanity is a strong asset, and I think that therapy made it even stronger.

Phil, however, cares only about tradition and the old school honor code, and that's his fatal flaw. Phil took it personally when Vito was outed, because Marie Spatafore is his cousin. And yet he chose to take Marie's husband (and her children's father...and his income) away from them because Vito was gay. He didn't just kill Vito--he physically humiliated him, and basically destroyed the Spatafore family. He also held the grudge against Tony B. for way too long. Even after Tony Soprano killed his own cousin, Phil still couldn't bury the hatchet, because he had wanted to torture Tony B. to death. Tony told Phil in his hospital bed that he should spend time with his family, and that "we could have it all. Money for everyone." Phil did seem to mellow out after that, but then he was back to complaining that Tony was "harboring a faggot." I think Phil ordered the hits on New Jersey for Vito, for his brother Billy, for the asbestos disposal problem, for new problems that arose and for old problems that had already been resolved. He had been waiting for an excuse to do it. Phil's violent death in front of his family was karmic retribution for all the negativity and violence he had perpetuated.

I respect Albie and Butchie for listening to reason. Butchie promised to give money to Janice for whacking Bobby--something Phil never would have agreed to. I don't necessarily see Butchie saying "do what you gotta do" as turning on Phil. I think he and Albie realized that someone like Phil, who is so driven by hatred and resentment, is never long for this world. They knew that Phil's end was coming, but they were at least loyal enough not to reveal his location. Also, I think it was silly of Phil to discredit Tony for never having done hard time. Tony has avoided jail so far by being a savvy criminal (and also by being lucky). On this show, being successful in the mafia is not about having been to jail, or being a homophobe, or strictly following the Code no matter what the circumstances are. It's about making money and taking care of your family. Tony understood this; Phil did not.

[Jeffer]

http://mattzollerseitz.blogspot.com/2007/0...22-made-in.html">An excellent recap...well worth reading!

http://www.eog.com/news/full-article.aspx?id=25632A humorous internet rumor...Nikki Leotardo is currently the Number Five search phrase on Google

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bard_(The_Twilight_Zone)"The "Twilight Zone" episode playing in the background

It was also funny how 'It's Alright Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)', Dylan's song AJ played in the SUV before it caught on fire and exploded, is the song playing in the last scene of "Easy Rider" when the motorcycle explodes and burns.

This post has been edited by Jeffer: Jun 11, 2007 @ 6:49 pm.

[Zogduke]

Woohoo! I made the L.A. Times:

'We wuz robbed,' fans complain
By Martin Miller and Carmen Gentile, Special to The Times
June 11, 2007


The fat lady finally sang for "The Sopranos" on Sunday night, and when it was over, much of the audience was left shrieking — and not with pleasure.

This message from the Television Without Pity website was fairly typical: "David Chase, you and your show are dead to me."

L.A. Times story

I was hoping they would go with my "ass rape" post (oh yeah, that got deleted).

[aztvwatcher]

So you could build up a lot of evidence--up to Chase saying "an instant after The Sopranos ended, Tony gets shot by the guy in the bathroom"--and it still didn't happen. Because The Sopranos ended! How is there even any argument?

But what about the quotes I've read from Chase that he couldn't see how there could be any future shows or movies after the conclusion of the final episode? I think he even went so far to say that the only possible future projects would be to go back in time to somewhere between Seasons 4 and 5 (or 3 or 4, etc.).

If Tony got clipped (demonstrated to the audience by the cut to black -- much like how it must have seemed inside of Phil's head when he was clipped), then Chase's statement makes perfect sense. If Tony didn't get clipped, I don't see why there couldn't be many more Soprano projects (assuming they could get the actors to sign on -- but remember the Sean Connery story about "Never say Never again"; enough money changes minds).

My vote is for a dead Tony.

[ChicagoStyle]

If Tony got clipped (demonstrated to the audience by the cut to black -- much like how it must have seemed inside of Phil's head when he was clipped), then Chase's statement makes perfect sense. If Tony didn't get clipped, I don't see why there couldn't be many more Soprano projects (assuming they could get the actors to sign on -- but remember the Sean Connery story about "Never say Never again"; enough money changes minds).

This is what I mean. Even if it is strongly implied that something happened, it still didn't happen--so it didn't happen. It's as simple as that. We never saw Adrianna get killed, right? But the characters clearly reference the event with Adrianna as though she were killed. Christopher talks about the sacrifice he made, etc. But we'll never have that with Tony. It wasn't demonstrated to us that anything happened to him. So therefore it didn't. Because it's a TV show, not a documentary about actual people. It's very conceivable that Tony died an instant later, but that was never written by the writers, or acted by the actors, or discussed by characters, so it simply didn't happen.

[gomer]

When Tony enters the bedroom in the safe house at the end of last week's episode, it appeared to be bare bones. Just a matress and a lamp. When the last episode begins, not only is there bedding (as mentioned much earlier in this thread) but the room is furnished and there is decoration on the walls. Looked lik a cozy room. I can sort of buy the thought that if Tony and his crew were there for some time, they might have gotten sheets, blankets, etc., but decorating? Any ideas what was intended with this change in the room?

[mikeprim]

I posted last night on this subject, but today while I was working, something just hit me out of the blue and suddenly it all made sense to me. I think that maybe I was out thinking myself last night. Tell me what you think...
This whole episode was a dream.
At the end of Blue comet, Tony enters his bedroom with a small bag and an assult rifle.
As he lies down on the bed he remebers Bobby telling him "they say you never hear it coming"
He drifts off to sleep clutching his gun with his black leather coat still on and no sheets on the matress.
The fact that Tony is the only one sleeping on a matress while the others sleep downstairs may indicate that Tony is "going to the matresses" alone.
It is considered bad luck in some circles to have the foot of your bed directly alligned with any doorway as Tony's bed is. This is known as the "coffin position".
The closing shot is one of an unlocked door.
In the final episode, the opening shots IMO forshaddow his death.
The first shot of just his head in the middle of the pillow look like he's lying in a coffin.
The radio alarm plays organ music which sounds like a funeral dirge on a classic rock station.
When he opens his eyes, the dream begins.
He gets out of bed with different clothes, there are sheets on the matress,no coat, his gun is leaning against the table which has a clock radio that wasn't there when he went to sleep.
The following scenes are played out in a dream sequence that gives us a last look into his sociopathic mind and the way he tends to rationalize things.
In his mind, he sees agent Harris as no better than himself and probably looks at it as Harris being eager to help Tony instead of Tony coming to grips with the fact the He's helping the feds. What FBI agent is going to tip of a mob boss and be an acomplice to murder?
We see A.J. all of a sudden become Christopher, who was like a son to Tony. No more depression. Has a girlfriend. In the movie business, fancy car, etc. That's an A.J. Tony can be proud of.
Meadow's going into criminal law gets rationalized down to being inspired by seeing her father (who must have been innocent -right?) being led away so many times by the feds and wants to stand up for the rights of Italian-americans. That's a Meadow Tony can be proud of.
He dreams of reaching out to NY. His war ends - his way and with no further incidents. Phil is gone and now Tony can have some peace of mind.
Everything that happens in the episode works to his benifit.
The post upthread was very thoughtfull in pointing out the symbolism of the baby ducks coming home. I haven't thought of that. Particularly after the scene where he was by the pool looking into the sky as if he were waiting for the ducks.
The guy at the counter of the parlor was his father and the lady that came in with the black dress was his mother. This is how they were shown to look when they were younger. They were there moments before their sons death to be with him when he passed on.
Don't stop believing - Perhaps the dream shows that he never stoped believing all the twisted thoughts and lies he's been living all his life.
And the life goes on and on and on and on.
When the screen goes black and silent. Tony was just shot in his sleep. He never heard it coming.
I believe the cat is symbolic of big pussy. A cat can also smell out a rat. There was also a full frontal shot of Harris' woman with no pants on which would also symbolize well...pussy!
Pauly is uncomfortable with the cat. Maybe because he's uncomfortable with the fact that he's the rat.
When Pauly saw Big Pussy in his kitchen he asked him "when it's my time will I stand up?"
All the scenes with white shoes would also lead us to believe that is was the person with the white shoes that did it.
Pauly was the one that Tony thought about killing, but didn't.
Pauly was the one who was checking out the stems on blondie while Tony was in crisis mode when just earlier Pauly was stressing about going to war and now he doesn't seem to care. Perhaps because he knows that he's safe.
That's probably also why he passed on Tony's offer. He had bigger plan than running a crew. Like running a family. Since when does Pauly turn his nose up at extra money anyway?
So IMO NY reached out to NJ. and Tony got whacked and not Phil. So we got to see both Phil die and yet know he's alive and got to see Tony alive and yet know he's dead.
This also supports the Shroedinger's cat theory way upthread that would suggest that they are both alive and dead at the same time.
As for the title - "Made in america" - Dreams are made in America.

[marty118]

That's probably also why he passed on Tony's offer. He had bigger plan than running a crew. Like running a family. Since when does Pauly turn his nose up at extra money anyway?

If your timeline is correct, this event (turning down the offer) occurs inside the dream. Where it would make no sense, because Tony would never imagine Paulie turning it down.

[skatee]

Now I know I've been reading these boards too much and looking for things that aren't there. In the last shot of Tony when the bell goes off, it totally looks like his left arm goes down to grab something

[kstrick9]

BillyEz: I've been watching the last nine episodes so I can get a bead on it and enjoy the last episode, so I might as well see the big payoff!

Nine episodes doesn't give you any insight. Start at episode 1 (rent the DVDs since you are in college). When you're done with the first 77 episides, then you can perhaps make a salient comment on the last nine.

To Leatherstocking
Yes, those diners do exist. I have visited several that have individual jukes at each table.

[chipguy]

A mild point, but funny how Meadow believes that Tony is just an innocent victim of the FBI... does she wonder why her father's friends keep disappearing, getting shot, or getting shot and killed?

Meadow is too smart to believe this. She's lying to make her father feel better about her career change.

[gardengal]

It doesn’t matter whether Tony died or not. Isn’t Chase saying that rust never sleeps, it’s always there, like cockroaches? That evil can’t avenge or be avenged in an 8-season series? Truly you don’t think that Chase should sublimate that idea in order to give the show’s fans a neat little denouement? No ending is a perfect ending—actually, it’s the only ending Chase could have delivered to us without stooping to the soap opera genre and its quick payoff.

Also: As others have commented, the last twenty minutes, in which Chase keeps us on tenterhooks waiting for the Tony payoff, reminds me of daily life in our world of terror, where the simplest suggestion by our political leaders can incite irrational but all-consuming fear in the hearts of a nation’s people.

[hughcruik]

It was also funny how 'It's Alright Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)', Dylan's song AJ played in the SUV before it caught on fire and exploded, is the song playing in the last scene of "Easy Rider" when the motorcycle explodes and burns.

why is this funny?

[gomer]

mikeprim, I had the same thoughts. The scenes with agent Harris did not ring true to his character to me and he actually seemed to be a lot like Tony -- cheating on his wife, fighting with his wife on the phone, and secretly rooting for the NJ crew to "beat" the NY crew. Seemed to be more likely that the character in the last episode was right out of Tony's warped perspective.

Also, when Tony found out that Meadow wanted to be an attorney that defends the little guy, Tony was disappointed and said he hoped that she'd end up in a big firm. In the final episoe, Meadow magically announces that a firm is interested in her and that her starting salary would be $170K! Tony was so proud. And then Meadow says that she believes that Tony has been picked on all these years by the Feds because of his heritage rather than his actions. It all seems to be what Tony would wish for and therefore may support the idea that the last episode is all a dream.

This post has been edited by gomer: Jun 11, 2007 @ 7:19 pm.

[ChicagoStyle]

Meadow is too smart to believe this. She's lying to make her father feel better about her career change.

I think we occasionally give Chase & Co too much credit. This to me sounded like a sloppy line of dialogue written by a man who had a very limited amount of time to finish his tv show. He needed to close Meadow's arc--and he does--and knew he needed to be as explicit as possible.

"Meadow not becoming a doctor is Tony's fault!!"

was what he was conveying--and to make that as clear as possible, here's Meadow saying, "If I hadn't seen you arrested..."