» The Chlois discussion thread: Which anvils do you believe? Options

[TWoP Tennison]

If you wish to post in this thread, please read this:

The Chlois discussion thread is for discussing what happens in the show, what the creators say, what DC says, and for what hints might be in the movies, comics, and Smallville that point one way or the other. It is not for discussion of what "the fans" want or think or believe. Of course, you as a fan cay say what you want or think or believe, but to speak for or about fans in general is off-topic. Also: Please don't keep repeating the same points and don't rehash old arguments. Arguments about Lois sleeping with her boss have been beaten into the ground. Explanation starts here in the Mod Thread.

Also, it's great to be passionate in your disagreement, but not disrespectful. Be careful of stating your opinions as facts.

This post has been edited by TWoP Tennison: Mar 29, 2009 @ 9:28 pm.

[La Guardianista]

To exactly what the label says, really. Lots and lots of Chlois/ Lanois /even Lois discussions (and discussions about possible Chloe death in episode 100) going on so I did what the big boss said and made a thread.

My own personal opinion is that although I have no faith in the writers to do it the Chlois theory seems the most plausible explanation. This has nothing to do with the talent gap between the 2 actresses (although that does exist) but because of the whole characterisation so far.
Put it this way: you have two friends. One is 18, is at Uni, has been a school magazine editor and now has a newspaper internship and a really close friendship with a guy she knew from school who is always acting the hero. She's always fancied him but he's always been hung up on one of their mutual mates.
Your other friend is in her early 20s, dropped out of school and then Uni, and now rents a flat above her coffee shop employment in a small town. She knows the hero friend, but they're more like uneasy acquaintances.
Which one do you think is more likely to end up a professional reporter and having a romantic relationship with the guy?

This post has been edited by La Guardianista: Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:04 pm.

[Chiriru]

Chloe doesn't die in 100; she's present in the episode after that

Chlois actually has had foreshadowing, really, since the second episode of the series if they go through with it. Chloe was always the Metropolis girl who wanted to get out of SV and work at the DP; and when given the chances to do that, she did. Not to mention we've seen her continue to refine her journalism and her investigative tendancies to become better at both and really use her brain in the situtations she gets herself into.

IMO, the fact that Chloe isn't hestint to try to fight off people but isn't aggressive, instead using the power of the press shows right away she's Lois. Lois Lane isn't a ninja, or well, IMO, shouldn't be when she's not a reporter either; Chloe's whole arc is saying that getting in the DP isn't easy at all and I frankly can't buy it that ED's Lois could hack it at all.

[Lucy Wiggin]

Can anybody really believe that KHAAAAAAANNN or Perry will accept "Lois" to the DP? Because I can't.

This post has been edited by Lucy Wiggin: Nov 4, 2005 @ 11:29 am.

[mobiusklein]

I think that's my main problem with SV!Lois. Her resume is pretty crappy. And if she just barges in and demands a job w/o something to show she's capable of stuff then she's going to come off as an obnoxious version of Lana w/o the alien phobia but all the expectations of entitlement. The interviewer would ask Lois the following questions and I think these are freaking standard questions.

1) Why do you want to be a reporter?
2) What are your qualifications?
3) Do you have experience in the field?
4) What other habits/talents do you bring to the job that would be of benefit?
5) Why should I hire you over someone else?

I just wouldn't be THAT thrilled with a resume of a Starbucks barista expecting a top job off the bat. Imagine the huge amount of resentment from people around her who HAVE gone to school, HAVE experience, etc.

And I've said this before and I'll say it again. You can decapitate Chloe but you can't kill off every single other competitor SV!Lois is going to go up against.

And frankly if it were Chloe on that pole, I KNOW that SV!Lois fans would not count that as a Chlois hint at all.

This post has been edited by mobiusklein: Nov 4, 2005 @ 11:39 am.

[Chiriru]

And frankly if it were Chloe on that pole, I KNOW that SV!Lois fans would not count that as a Chlois hint at all.

Agreed. Had Lois said "up, up, and away" would there of been any debate if it was an anvil simply because "Lois" said it?

Imagine the huge amount of resentment from people around her who HAVE gone to school, HAVE experience, etc.

Which we are already being privy to when Chloe did it; strong arming isn't what a "real reporter" does. And arguably, Lane and Kent in the future are real reporters.

Can anybody really believe that KHAAAAAAANNN or Perry will accept "Lois" to the DP?

It doesn't make any sense at all after what Chloe - the girl who has been persuing it for at least four years, who won her first job at the dp on her writing alone, who believes in journalism as a way to find the truth and provide justice... and she had to work for it. They don't have all the time in the world to develope ED's Lois, and the more we see of her, the less she fits in within the plot.

[mobiusklein]

Also, I don't consider Lois!fu to be a big anvil that she's Lois Lane. Why? Because frankly, by giving Lana the ability to get her fu down in one single episode (implying one single lesson) by Lex, master of being beaten down, then that particular is devalued. If wimpy!Lana can kick someone across a room . . . the writers really frelled that one up by not thinking ahead.

If they really want to kill Chloe to make Lois THE Lois then . . . it makes Lois look ghoulish. God knows how many people snark like mad over all the dead people Lana has killed (yes, I know it's mind!whammied but seriously) and how all of her boyfriends except Clark die. And doing stuff in tribute to the dead cousin makes me think of Lana and the Talon, which has all sort of bad vibes.

This post has been edited by mobiusklein: Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:57 pm.

[MartaDolores]

Lana's Kung-Fu plays more believably than Lois's does. I guess it's because ED/Lois plays it with this air of "Imma kick your ass" that makes it so cartoonish.

We've already seen how Lois reacts to her cousin's death, and it wasn't "spring into action and right this wrong". It was, "wait a few months, and then eventually start looking into things." There's nothing wrong with that, mind you, but we've already seen that Lois wouldn't feel obligated or inspired to pick up where Chloe left off. While I do believe that Nois just may be the real Lois (according to this show, not to myself), I don't believe this is the route they'll take.

I also felt that Lois picking up on Melissa's Jimmy Choo shoes was a bone to let her contibute something to the investigation.

[hickorylane]

I just wouldn't be THAT thrilled with a resume of a Starbucks barista expecting a top job off the bat. Imagine the huge amount of resentment from people around her who HAVE gone to school, HAVE experience, etc 

Wouldn't it be funny in the future if edLois is so resented. They could have a cake on hand every time she is in danger, only to have to put it back in the fridge when Supes saves her. Imagine the DP reporters, forks and plates in hand, then groaning when she comes back.

I assume Chloe will "fast track" Lois into the DP. Don't like it at all, but I can't see this creative team actually being creative with the Chlois. Too bad.

[Jasonb]

I can totally see that interview.

1) Why do you want to be a reporter?

Well, err. My cousin was one, and she died so I thought i'd give it a shot.

2) What are your qualifications?

I didn't finish high school but a friend's friend totally hooked it up for me to get into college anyway, but they kicked me out inside 3 months for underage drinking. Then I worked at a coffee shop for a while.

3) Do you have experience in the field?

Ah-ha yes! I totally went undercover as a stripper and distracted people while my cousin did some investigative work.

4) What other habits/talents do you bring to the job that would be of benefit?

Errr. i'm a bad speller, i know kung-fu, and i'm totally obnoxious to anyone who is anything resembling nice to me.

5) Why should I hire you over someone else?

My name's Lois Lane.

You're hired Sweet-heart!

Sad part is she will probably turn out to be the real lois.

[mobiusklein]

And I wonder a bit at this: Would people say that Clark stripping at a club for a story be a huge anvil that he's superman? Sure you could origami it into an anvil if you like by saying "Well, it's just like changing into his uniform!" but I doubt that it would be seen that way.

[Cyb]

The only thing that keeps me from believing that Chloe is the Lois is that I have no faith in the writers to go through with it. It makes the most sense to have the girl who lives and breathes journalism be Lois Lane, but I don't necessarily think they'd do the thing that makes the most sense. I think they're indulging in having their cake and eating it, too. They get to have the smart, investigative girl with drive and passion--and they get to have someone named Lois Lane without the messy work of developing her. They have the characteristics of Lois and the name of Lois in one show, just not in one person.

This post has been edited by Cyb: Nov 4, 2005 @ 8:13 pm.

[Aurelian]

I have to agree that I doubt the writers have the balls to do it. As for the complaint that I see all over that they can't do that because it violates continuity from the comics/movies, honestly Smallville has already pissed all over continuity. The Clark and Lex grew up together, while present in the Pre-Crisis universe, was taken out by Man of Steel (Of course Birthright brought it back, but DC can't quite make up its mind if that's canon or not), so there's that. Then there's the basic fact that Clark ever met Lois in Smallville. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that has never been a facet of the comics, that Lois and Clark would know each other quite a bit from his Smallville days. There's also the whole Pete is black, the existence of Chloe, and all his interactions with Jor-El, etc. as well.

Suffice to say, continuity doesn't really seem to be their strong suit. So why not do the ballsy thing and go Chlois. They could even double swerve fans if they did a situation where both Chloe and Lois were in danger, then have Chloe come out of it and take on Lois's name for the paper. It would be a huge moment that would have serious press play (look at what happened when the comics killed Supes), throw the casual fan who doesn't know the Chlois theory at all for a major loop, and also have the advantage of fucking with the 'net fans who would be seriously wondering which would die. Of course, as I said, the writers have no balls and would never do it, though I'd respect the series a whole hell of a lot more if they did.

This post has been edited by Aurelian: Nov 4, 2005 @ 8:53 pm.

[Cyb]

I'm waffling back and forth on whether Chloe working at the DP now makes her less likely or more likely to be future!Lois.

The argument in my head goes something like this:

Less likely: Well, now that she's working there under her own name, wouldn't people know she's Chloe in the future?
More likely: Eh, if Clark can disguise himself with glasses, Chloe can do it with dark hair.
Less likely: Yeah but, if she suddenly becomes Lois, wouldn't she have to start all over again? She's putting in all this work as Chloe, not Lois.
More likely: True, but when Perry starts working there, he'll be in on it! He'll give her a break as Lois because he knew her as Chloe.
Less likely: Yeah, but--
More likely: UP, UP AND AWAY, damn it!!!

[CantThinkUpName]

I think the anvils for both characters are incredibly different.

Chloe's anvils work on a subtle level or even becoming character development. Lines like "You won't play Nancy Drew in my precinct" and "up, up and away," the Silver Age Lois suit, working at the DP etc. fit into the story and also help in identifying us with the character and the characterization of Chloe. Her foreshadowing is genuine foreshadowing.

With Lois, all her anvils seem even clunkier than the Clark/Lex ones. They come from nowhere and often make no sense ("Someday Lois you will fall in love with an even more Super Man"). Also, if she becomes real!Lois, it will almost be like punishing SV!Lois since she'd turn into everything she hates. It's one thing to have a character ambivalent about some things but she seems vehemently against Clark, journalism and being motivated to do something.

The big problem is really the producers. Chloe to Chlois is an organic character turn but we know they don't really like Chloe (at least AlMiles) and they admit to letting her and loving to let her get the shaft. I can't imagine them letting the bane of LanaLovers existence ends up stealing their man.

[carcassi]

I think [TPTB are] indulging in having their cake and eating it, too. They get to have the smart, investigative girl with drive and passion--and they get to have someone named Lois Lane without the messy work of developing her.

I agree that that's what TPTB are doing, and, IMO, it's not only a cheap cop-out, it's also an admission that they *can't* make this version of "Lois" into anything like the iconic Lois Lane. After all, wasn't it TPTB that originally claimed that Lois Lane was supposed to be a combo of Lana and Chloe? As far as I can see, ED's version of "Lois" is, at best, Lana redux with a hotter body and a little extra snark. I originally expected Lois Lane, if and when she appeared on SV, to completely outclass Lana and Chloe. Instead, she's an "also-ran" to both of them.

AlMiles can lightswitch all they like, this will never be THE Lois Lane to me. That role was filled, far more believably, by Chloe, from Season 1 on.