» Picking Up Transmissions: Speculation With Spoilers Options

[Flubber]

Zoriah : Is this the spoiler you were referring to?

http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2007/01/e...set-report.html

[Zoriah]

No, but it was a corroborating report that also mentioned Michael.

from darkufo rumors titled Michael back?

http://lostrumours.blogspot.com/2007/01/ru...chael-back.html

The bit that interested me was the wording and use of caps 'Locke and Mate', which could be a typo? It would make sense if it was Kate since she's got some experience with blowing things up.

Anyways, blowing up stuff always tends to earn back some brownie points.

[deChantal]

It's interesting (but not encouraging) to speculate on what ABC's tampering with this already wobbling show will mean to future storylines. I'd say, since Juliet and Ben were popular in the mini arc, they'll probably be bumped off asap. And the Kate/Sawyer get together was also popular, so no more of that. The complaints about not getting answers are apparently being addressed by giving an answer to the one thing no one gives a shit about, which is Jack's nasty ass tattoos. And Locke's wheelchair, which I don't think anyone so much as remembers anymore.

The primary complaint - which was entirely justified - about the miniarc was the total disregard given to the ensemble. Not just in time spent on them, but in the clumsy way their "stories" were written and the tacky additions of the ridiculous new characters (whose names I wouldn't even know if I didn't go online). I am curious to see how they plan to address this now, since not only have the writers lost touch with their characters, but the audience has also. Charlie is going to have his death predicted and Clare will find out he beaned Sun. Hurley will find a car. Sun and Jin will...uh, still be having Jae Lee's maybe baby. Sawyer will drink really old beer....Does this sound compelling yet to anyone?

I'm wondering if Dez is off the mark about Kate staying in Otherville and instead ABC has decided to do the usual and just smear more Jack on all its wounds. You want ensemble? You want answers? Let Locke and Co. break Jack out of Otherville and get him back to breaking heads and demanding answers goddamnit! Maybe they decided to just cut the whole Other story short and get Jack back to the beach, so they can at least prop the other characters up behind him in his neverending story.

The sad thing is there are good ways to use the Jack character. There's absolutely no reason for him to be the lead at this point, nothing that's evident in the story, and the actor seems far better suited to portraying a dickhead than a saint. A great idea would be to have him "turn", for real, no joke, and have him become the leader of an opposing faction against his former friends. Since the Others may want to "tame" the intruders, and since the doctor knows all their weak points, they could make a very effective team. That would shock the audience, put them into suspense as to the outcome, give all the characters something big to react to and get people talking....So I guess we can be sure that option's not on the table.

[Dezdemona]

deChantal - I'm wondering if Dez is off the mark about Kate staying in Otherville and instead ABC has decided to do the usual and just smear more Jack on all its wounds. You want ensemble? You want answers? Let Locke and Co. break Jack out of Otherville and get him back to breaking heads and demanding answers goddamnit! Maybe they decided to just cut the whole Other story short and get Jack back to the beach, so they can at least prop the other characters up behind him in his neverending story.

The sad thing is there are good ways to use the Jack character. There's absolutely no reason for him to be the lead at this point, nothing that's evident in the story, and the actor seems far better suited to portraying a dickhead than a saint. A great idea would be to have him "turn", for real, no joke, and have him become the leader of an opposing faction against his former friends. Since the Others may want to "tame" the intruders, and since the doctor knows all their weak points, they could make a very effective team. That would shock the audience, put them into suspense as to the outcome, give all the characters something big to react to and get people talking....So I guess we can be sure that option's not on the table.

I could well be off the mark, deChantal. That scenario was offered tongue in cheek, though with a touch of concern that they might actually think that way.

After watching the vidcast and reading the latest print interview with Damon and Carlton, (both linked in the Media Mentions thread) I suspect that we need to discard a lot of what the producers said earlier in the season. I think that they've been given certain instructions by the network since the airing of the mini-series, and that they've had to change their original plans. Something about the way Damon reiterated a couple of times, "This season is still going to be about getting the know the Others," and "We're still going to tell that story," gave me the impression they'll be telling it differently than they first intended. Ergo, I think their plan to have Jack with the Others for most of the season has very likely been scrapped and I can well imagine an early rescue attempt by the Losties being successful.

My guess is that the network has told them: more beach stories with the characters who've been under-represented, and bring Jack back to his group. Oh joy! I'm so happy at the prospect of more of Control-Freak-Jack yelling orders at everybody. I was so looking forward to a break from Jack's miserable excuse for "leadership" and was actually curious to see how he'd deal with a situation where he is NOT the boss. Considering his position on the beach, and his previous role as a super-stud spinal surgeon, not being in charge would actually be new territory. IMO, the best Jack scenes in a very, very long time were the ones with Ben and Juliet, and I seem to recall a lot of praise for those in the episode threads.

As much as I like your idea of turning Jack truly dark and having him join the Others fully, I don't think the show would ever go there. Jack has been coated in Teflon from the get-go, his screen time and prominence in the story have only increased over time, and I suspect that trend isn't going to change. Unfortunately.

This post has been edited by Dezdemona: Feb 1, 2007 @ 7:45 am.

[deChantal]

You're probably right Dez that they will never have the courage to actually make some good use of their choice of main character.

It's too bad, since the only thing that could ever make the character of Jack even slightly interesting is to have him truly and utterly humbled by his own culpability in something as obscenely awful as what the other survivors have experienced. That is what makes the other characters sympathetic - that they are broken and ashamed of themselves. That's the humanity we recognize(d) in them. Having a pompous asshole tromping through the story as the one blameless soul really guts the premise of redemption, in a meta sense, as in all of humanity needing redemption. If that is indeed the premise. I'm starting to understand there probably isn't any premise at all.

[lizziefitz]

After watching the vidcast and reading the latest print interview with Damon and Carlton, (both linked in the Media Mentions thread) I suspect that we need to discard a lot of what the producers said earlier in the season. I think that they've been given certain instructions by the network since the airing of the mini-series, and that they've had to change their original plans.

I suspect you're right, Dezdemona, as D&C do seem to be backpeddling and stepping away from rather strong statements they made last year. It does smell like rewrite--just like the latter part of S2. What makes this all strange is that the miniseason did well in the ratings. Yes, it was edged out by Criminal Minds, embarassingly, in November. But in overall viewership, and especially in the 18-49 demographic, it remained a top show, with significantly higher viewer totals than it managed in the spring of 2006.

The sad thing is that the show's ratings are likely to be worse this spring. The show's moving to a later hour, which will cost it some viewers, and it will be preceded by two of the weakest hours on network television. I worry what the next round of reduced ratings or network complaints will do to the show. Do you think they'll break down and actually give Jack a cape and tights? ;)

[Flubber]

deChantle interesting point about what people are interested in.

On darks poll page he has a poll about what people would like answered and the tattoo and wheelchair are not even mention.

http://lostpolls.blogspot.com/2007/01/what...-forgotten.html

[Dezdemona]

deChantal - It's too bad, since the only thing that could ever make the character of Jack even slightly interesting is to have him truly and utterly humbled by his own culpability in something as obscenely awful as what the other survivors have experienced. That is what makes the other characters sympathetic - that they are broken and ashamed of themselves. That's the humanity we recognize(d) in them. Having a pompous asshole tromping through the story as the one blameless soul really guts the premise of redemption, in a meta sense, as in all of humanity needing redemption. If that is indeed the premise. I'm starting to understand there probably isn't any premise at all.

Thanks for pinpointing one of the most (of many!) irritating traits of this character. His moral superiority remains unshaken and he just doesn't do "guilt", seemingly about anything. After the Sawyer-torturing incident, Sayid had a crisis of conscience and exiled himself from the group out of remorse. Jack's only reaction was a snarky "I won't lose any sleep over it." He knowingly led Hurley, Kate and Sawyer into a trap that could have cost them their lives, and instead of apologizing for that when he finally told them, he rationalized his decision by declaring it was all okay because he had a "plan". He assumes the power that goes with leadership, but not the responsibilities. That's one of the main reasons I was hoping we'd get to see him examine "leadership" from the other side with the Others.

We still don't know the Others' agenda or anything about how they came to be living on this island, and I don't think they went nearly far enough with that during the mini-series. That was my main frustration with it. I'm really hoping Juliet's episode will give us some real meat on this as she was recruited and must have received some explanations, and possibly learned others when she actually arrived.

If they do bring Jack back to the beach earlier than originally planned, I wonder how we're going to continue seeing the Others' operations. Would they exchange one character for another, e.g. perhaps end up leaving Sayid or Locke behind as a result of that rescue mission? I'm really anxious to see the spoilers that will come out in the next few weeks. With this sense I have that the season has been re-tooled, I feel as though I'm in the dark on a lot of things.

lizziefitz - I've got my fingers crossed over the ratings question too. I think we'll lose some people who used to watch as a family right off the bat.

Interesting poll, Flubber. Thanks for the link.

This post has been edited by Dezdemona: Feb 1, 2007 @ 8:32 am.

[burping frog]

Clare will find out he beaned Sun.

Does anyone think this will come about through Sawyer and Jin getting drunk off their asses together? It would make sense. I certainly think the only way Sawyer would ever mention it again is if (a) he was furious at Charlie and wanted to attack him in public with all he knows, or (b) he was drunk.

I had thought that the scene was going to lead to nothing but maybe it's the start of all the Charlie/Clare drama?

[Shuggie]

Sawyer does have some history outing people when he feels he's been wronged. When Kate went after his spot on the Raft, he busted her on being a fugitive felon in front of the whole group. He was pretty hard core about it too.

I'd imagine that if Charlie pissed him off enough, he'd have no problem calling him out as his Long Con accomplice. And it wouldn't hurt Sawyer 'cause everybody already knows that he tricked Locke & Jack into giving up the guns. Plus, Sawyer likes to be hated.

Speaking of the Long Con, that whole scenario was revenge for having his stuff ransacked & having his stolen beer stolen. And what is it that Charlie & Hurls plan to do in Flashes Before Your Eyes? They're gonna ransack Sawyer's stuff & swipe his damn beer! Could be reason enough for Sawyer to at least spill to Claire that Charlie's a dirty Sun-Grabber (even if he never utters a word to Jin & Sun themselves about it).

We had to guess though that as soon as Charlie said "You can never tell anyone about this, ever" that somewhere down the line it'd come out & then come back to haunt him. I actually like that they set that up & then won't pay it off for, like, 20 episodes. But I still love LOST's pace overall.

[rayhna]

I thought the spoiler we got a while back about Sun finding out who grabbed her was Charlie confessing it himself?

[Irina]

nevermind.

This post has been edited by Irina: Feb 1, 2007 @ 10:48 am.

[Shuggie]

I thought the spoiler we got a while back about Sun finding out who grabbed her was Charlie confessing it himself?

Ah, good old Catholic guilt. Too bad Eko's toast 'cause Charlie coulda' just confessed to him instead.

[elisabethh]

I thought the spoiler we got a while back about Sun finding out who grabbed her was Charlie confessing it himself?

I thought the spoiler was Sun finding out and that Charlie confessing it was speculation. I kind of like the idea of DrunkSawyer spilling the beans to Jin, but maybe it could be SoberSawyer outing Charlie and downplaying his own role.

I'd imagine that if Charlie pissed him off enough, he'd have no problem calling him out as his Long Con accomplice. And it wouldn't hurt Sawyer 'cause everybody already knows that he tricked Locke & Jack into giving up the guns.

We differ on this, because I always thought that Charlie could easily escape serious trouble in this. Charlie has been portrayed from the start as immature, impulsive, and easily led. Why should the Losties expect him to escape the manipulations of a professional conman who has managed to manipulate Locke and Jack, each of whom thinks of himself (and is seen by others) as better than Charlie--more mature, more responsible, more able to see through people who attempt to use him?

Perhaps I am feeling mean today, but I think it would be interesting if we find out that Sawyer had got Sun in on the attack--she agreed to it happening, but didn't know when or who--and she decides to let Jin beat up Charlie for it without admitting her knowledge of the conspiracy so Jin won't know she is still hiding things from him. It would explain why she seemed to know something was coming before the attack, tried to calm Jin down after the attack, and went back to her gardening afterwards without a bodyguard. It wouldn't explain how she managed to hurt herself getting away, but I've been able to hit my head on a low ceiling I knew perfectly well was there in broad daylight at a walk, so falling on rough ground in the dark is possible. That would let Charlie get beaten up for the attack, as people want, while reminding us of Glass Ballerina Sun, who knows how to let others take the fall.

[rayhna]

I think Sawyer has been getting his comeuppance in spades pretty much since the fake Sun kidnapping happened. Charlie, besides being shunned by Claire for a week or two, got in on a building project with Mr. Eko, and never really did.