» The Old L Word Thread Options

[Oogenesis]

For the record, I think Tina had pretty much planned "pregnant sex" ahead of time. ~SaabStory

I agree, like ya thinking!

I still don't get why Carmen is so suddenly hated~ Sleepy

Hated? Maybe. I know Jenny may deserve this because of all the shit she has done. But Carmen is acting like a 15 year old girl, it is pathetic and irritating to watch. Plus the only thing I hate are those long sad looks that Carmen gives Shane, You know the ones where she looks real stupid. Well they make me want to vomit.

Although if Jenny shows Carmen to the door, I'm sure we'll go spiralling back into that carnival madness and honestly, I would rather watch Carmen pee on her. ~MobiusLoopy

I tell Carmen not to shit on Jenny, so she goes and pees on her instead. What are the odds?

I hear Pope Ben is a conservative though...do you think he'd listen? ~Shakti

Remember he is 78 years old, the question you may want to ask is does he still have a sense of hearing?

EZGIRL: GOOD LUCK ON THE ALBUM SALES... YOUR GONNA NEED IT... ~pop culture 00

I swear I heard in the previous episode “Buy my album, Buy my album, Buy my album”

Dana. She's just a prop to me.

What like an ironingboard? But that’s only when she turns to the side. *Holds hands up* I do like Dana, I do I do!

[graylines]

Afternoon..Delurking to catch my dam breath. I can't keep up with all these wonderful pages. I start in the morning and by the time I get back from lunch, shit...another 4 pages. But the comments and thoughts on the board are so great.

EZGIRL: GOOD LUCK ON THE ALBUM SALES... YOUR GONNA NEED IT... ~pop culture 00

I swear I heard in the previous episode “Buy my album, Buy my album, Buy my album” ~ Oogenesis

Oogenesis..LOL. Between this and all the bad pee lines...Who acutally throught the whole pee thingy wingy was even a remotely half way decent idea? I suppose I should be greatful. No carny acts in 2 weeks. Okay back to lurking....

[pop culture 00]

Thanks! :) BeachBunny for clarifying that information for me.

So basically its what ratings they get is the ratings they will take in regards to the ratings for TLW.

I swear I heard in the previous episode “Buy my album, Buy my album, Buy my album”-OG!

Nah! Its gonna be in the season finale... Since the album comes out in May and the season finale airs in May.

pioneer1 I love your dedication to Tina!!! Your posts always intrigue me. Here is a seat on the TBS Sparkee and Me are the Co-Captains!

[zippy1]

Sure, LH is as big as a house, but there were ways to hide her behind trailers and potted plants. - Candid

No, no and no. That wouldn't work. Seriously, I watched Will & Grace for the first time after a long break from it, and noticed that Grace was pregnant - only to find out she wasn't!! The actress was big - a pot plant or a bag carefully placed could not hide that. And I hated it! Totally made it unbelieveable to me as a show.

Tina gave Bette an opening when she said you can tell me anything.  - pioneer1

And then Bette said (not quoted exactly) that 'no she can't', as Tina has made it clear. To which Tina didn't correct her. I'd assume that talking about the affair is out of bounds right now.

To me that implies that Bette still wants to have her say about Helena, - pioneer1

Tina knows full well how Bette feels about Hellno! But seriously, the woman will also be around Bette's child. Surely she should have a small say about that in some form? Or is it only what Tina wants?

Be mad at Tina all you want for her not wanting to "talk". But Bette should have "talked" before she "fucked" several months ago. - Saabstory

They weren't talking to each other, so bringing the subject up for Bette would have been impossible. And yes I think Tina would have brushed it off. No one is excusing Bette for the affair. It happened, life goes on, they need to talk - now. It's that simple - at the moment anyway.

I do. We see two conversations where Bette asks Tina questions or makes direct points about how she feels and Tina offers no acknowledgement. - beachbunny

Agree totally BB.

Bette wouldn't have to explain anything if she didn't run and jump into someone else's bed. - Saabstory

I didn't see Bette running.

Honestly, I'm not interested in a six year Ross and Rachel type storyline.
- Nek

Word to that. I need a S.3 I can be glued to - not a 'will they/won't they' crap storyline. If they're gonna be together, then just do it.

I would say it's time to "shit or get off the pot"...but there's a fear now the show takes these sayings literally.  - sueb2b

LMAO!!! How do you all come up with these things?!!! tooo funnyyy!!!

Is there a time limit on being angry and hurt, is there a time limit as to when you want to talk about a serious betrayal of this kind. I get the impression, Tina is suppose to be on a stop watch and have so many minutes to be angry, to be hurt, to be confused and when the clock runs out, bingo she's ready to hear Bette out. I just don't think its that easy. - pioneer1

If this was real life, then I would say no, there's no time limit for anything (as such). But on a tv show - yes there is. The audience won't wait for ever - and S.3 could be a long time away dammit! Hearing someone out after something like an affair probably takes a while, but it must happen slowly, over time yes? We're in ep.10 on Sunday night and Tina wants to start dating Bette? Tina has so far not even mentioned Candace to Bette. Why? If she was so intent on bringing baby up alone, why not question Bette about the affair. I understand she was hurt, confused etc... etc... but it must have crossed her mind as to why is happened. My reaction would be to get an answer as to why my hubby cheated. I'd want to know. This is the thing that boggles me. And probably what Tina is lying about. She's saying to herself that she probably doesn't wanna/need to know but deep down she does. I'm no shrink though!!
*could we now keep my marriage out of it!! please! Cheers!*

Just a side note to ep 9, seems like Bette kept a scorecard in the lovemaking department from past and present. - pioneer1

Why? Because she noticed Tina was doing things she'd never done before? After 7 years surely Bette would know what Tina did/didn't do in bed. Nothing wrong with that. That's why after so long you need to spice things up again, it can all become too familiar.


Pioneer1 I do like your posts, honest! I love sparring with ya!

*I'll apologise now if the 'quotes' don't work! I have no idea!!*

This post has been edited by zippy1: Apr 21, 2005 @ 7:26 am.

[Southgirl]

Candid

What is "die" in Spanish?  Southie, help me out?

So sorry ma cherie for turning up late :) You're looking for "morir" though I'd rather she "que se muera revantada", heh. A slight variation to plain "die". Is that okay?

Nek, you already have your love story, Tibette. You just have to get used to the fact that it's written a la IC style.

[KeepR]

Someone pages back made a comment about seeing Bette's underwear in the back when she sits on the bed. There's something crazy going on with that thong, yo. When she stands up to leave Kit at The Planet, you can see the top of her underwear in the front. It is both hot and baffling.
<- thinks about Jennifer Beals's underwear too much. keatonbynumbers

Yes, that was me asking the thong/continuity question toward the bottom of my earlier post and I would still like to know whether we were taken from white panties that matched the bra to a thong that matched Tina's bedding because.....

Perhaps the continuity person wasn't paying attention due to all the sexual tension being captured on camera. sue2b2

Or perhaps the so-called continuity person is the same person who sprays on tattoos, runs out for coffee and donuts, and washes QBIC's car among other things because there seems to be more consistent visual inconsistencies on TLW than in any other show or film I've seen. Believe me, I'm not sitting there looking for these things while I'm trying to watch an episode...they just jump out of the screen and kick me in the eyes every week.

I guess she turned the "guess room" (which is located out back somewhere, we all know this is a one bedroom house) into the baby room. sparkee

I don't think so....the "guess room" where Tina was staying had a horizontal, white wall molding that hit at about the level as Bette's neck and the nursery wall didn't. The nursery wall had some kind of different wall paper than when Tina was lying in bed in the guest room. Of course, Bette could have repainted or wallpapered (but why?), but it's doubtful that she would have removed the wall molding that looked like it was on at least two of the walls and would typically be on all of them. Of course, that could all change again next week....just like last week when Dr. Foxwankly appeared to have moved to a new office with different furniture than what we saw last season (and it didn't look like a step up in decor) or when all of the condiments on the top of Jenny and Shane's stove disappeared last week from the week before (and I don't think Bette's the only one not cooking in that neighborhood). Again, if Dr. Foxworthy is going to make an appearance, shouldn't someone take a good look at his office from S1 and try to replicate that as closely as possible? That doesn't seem like such a difficult thing to be able to do and it just seems highly unprofessional for a well-budgeted cable show not to pay attention to prop details that shouldn't be all that impossible to coordinate (actors' actions are variable and unpredictable....inanimate props aren't).

The whole thing seems doubly manipulative to me because Helena knows that Tina has been trying to share baby related things with BETTE. Bette is the other parent of this child, it was Bette that Tina chose to go to the doctor’s appointment, etc. Not at any point has Tina indicated that she would like Helena to share the role of parenthood with her, unless I’ve seriously missed something. jenniepie

Exactly....and does anyone really think it was a coincidence that Helena had the nursery finished and ready to present to Tina on the exact same day that Tina was going for the ultrasound with Bette? I don't believe for a moment that Helena didn't remember Tina's ultrasound appointment that day and that Bette was scheduled to go with her. Helena is an autotelic plotter, planner, calculator, and master manipulator. It's part of her disease.

eta:

Having been in a relationship for over 2 decades I gotta tell you I think Bette has more than paid for her mistake, and I think Tina has really stuck it to her. finnyball

I so agree that the "Bette cheated, Tina's been hurt" storyline has been stretched out (no offense to LH) and overplayed almost to the point of being tiresome and not credible at this point. I just believe that, after a seven year relationship/commitment, a lot of Bette and Tina's interactions (including PregnantSex) have come across more like something that would be indicative of a much shorter, less committed and far more casual relationship. Also, Bette has been so overly tolerant of Tina (and Helena) and Tina has been so indignant toward Bette on so many occasions that it almost feels disingenuous to the entire storyline about TiBette and their long-term relationship (past, present, and future). As much as I hate to say it, I'm almost thinking that "flf" in QBIC's S2 world means "first, last, f*cked up".

This post has been edited by KeepR: Apr 20, 2005 @ 6:50 pm.

[finnyball]

Besides all our various focuses and faults, the fact is IC has created a whole world in this, our little show. I don't think she gets enough credit for that.
The main characters excite and dissapoint us but we wonder about them enough to care about their back stories - their motivations and possible futures. I would count that as a great success.

I wish I hadn't felt like fast forwarding to get to the point we're at now, all too soon it will be over.

PS.
I forgot to say what I have been thinking for quite awhile now.
Having been in a relationship for over 2 decades I gotta tell you I think Bette has more than paid for her mistake, and I think Tina has really stuck it to her.
I'm kind of shocked by the lack of understanding/forgiveness of some of our posters.
It has totally changed the balance of power in their relationship, which makes it more interesting for the story...but as for real life, what does Bette have to do - burn in hell for her transgression?
(I'm sure Ben would say so)
I think they have both walked through the fires, and they have come out KNOWING they love each other. That's a big carrot to making a relationship work.
Along with the hot sex of course...

This post has been edited by finnyball: Apr 20, 2005 @ 5:08 pm.

[bfan]

Beachbunny - to your point about IC going with a notion beyond characters as "real" people I think this quote helped me understand what you meant about IC giving us characters and a story to help us look at things beyond the characters themselves.

IC is a little shaky on the difference between character deconstruction and character assassignation. Someone like A. M. Holmes is a master at this (did any of you read her recent New Yorker short story about her relationship with her birthparents? It was devastating.), and it's very telling that one of her best gifts couldn't be realized in the script. It seems like IC is assembling a smorgasbord aesthetic, rather than anything like a taste with internal logic and integrity.

I do think I get caught a bit in the characters because of this "gaze" at my "lesbian" reality that hasn't been tackled on TV like this before - an ongoing show with an almost all women cast. I get over invested in the characters representing my "reality" because my reality is so often minimized, misunderstood, misrepresented and or trashed on TV and in the media. And sometimes weird as it sounds I want my life experince to be affirmed because of all the negativity that still surrounds the "lesbian lifestyle" and I want to feel the characters being real as part of that affirmation. But I can get into the notion that IC is trying to deconstruct the whole how does the world look at lesbians while she is looking at lesbians herself. Does any of this make sense?

This post has been edited by bfan: Apr 20, 2005 @ 5:16 pm.

[CrushMe]

and does anyone really think it was a coincidence that Helena had the nursery finished and ready to present to Tina on the exact same day that Tina was going for the ultrasound with Bette?~keepr

Also, when Helena came over to Tina in the bed, she kissed Tina's stomach. Now I'm sure the baby had better morning breath than Tina but I'm a little concerned on how invested Helena is getting into Tina's baby.

As for all the Tina holding a grudge talk, for the last few episodes Tina hasn't rubbed Bette's nose in the poo sandwiches. The story has to show Tina and Helena together but post Dana/Tonya party, Tina doesn't make physical contact with Helena in front of Bette. If she wanted to hurt Bette, that would be the easiest way. Maybe that's what LH was thinking of when she made that comment. And when you ream me for this, be gentle.

It's interesting that Bette treated Tina gingerly. I guess Tina never got the snap-neck special that bargirl got. Something for them to add to their repertoire.

Bunny, I'm going to work on your transgressive theory but it might take me a while. Right now it's just a joke wondering how each secondary character will be written off. Mr. Piddles must have had a good agent because he was the only one who left with dignity.

ETA: And if Tina really wanted to be mean she could have said "You like that move, Helena taught it to me." :)

This post has been edited by CrushMe: Apr 20, 2005 @ 5:47 pm.

[FarmerDuck]

Why is Helena in L.A.?

[beachbunny]

Pop, I think your conclusion is correct. And I think Greenblatt wants her to keep pushing the envelope.

Unfortunately, IC seems a little shaky on the difference between character deconstruction and character assassignation. Someone like A. M. Holmes is a master at this (did any of you read her recent New Yorker short story about her relationship with her birthparents? It was devastating.), and it's very telling that one of her best gifts couldn't be realized in the script. It seems like IC is assembling a smorgasbord aesthetic, rather than anything like a taste with internal logic and integrity.

Weltatem, would you write a bit about why you think it is assassination?

The trouble with comparisons to Homes' fiction is that she works independently and not in collaboration. IC takes the heat because she runs the show, however, the actors have to be capable of delivering on Homes' gifts as well. And not all of them can. And the directors have to see it the same way. Not all of them do.

I know this is going to be a vastly unpopular opinion (what's new coming from me) however, I think that while the actors are competent, some of them are making choices that are questionable, because they are safe and perhaps born from their affection for who they are playing. JB's portrayal of Bette during the affair comes to mind. She nailed it at the B&B because she wasn't pained. Mia commented that Jenny is not likeable. She holds no disdain for her; she simple let's her be. And she nails it.

I think the problem is that all of these characters have serious potential that has not been fully realized yet, not by the writers, nor by the actors (with the exception of JBeals, IMO)... - jennipie

I think the writers have realized quite a bit. They are all fairly complex except for maybe Dana, but I think that's about to change. And for my money Mia is the only exception. JB has been coming along in S2 though. LH's notion that Tina is holding no grudges makes her too saintly. Tina should own her vindication. Not in a soap opera style, but with the notion that her conduct is not out of the ordinary, given what happened to her. The action is delivering what LH is not. I'm not sure any of the other regular cast have the range.

What aesthetic is that, bunny? - obLW

I missed this in your edited post before ob. The aesthetic is transgressive-not just a single act or action, or a single character. All of them including Tina, despite what LH says. Here's an excerpt from a recent, rather negative review of transgressive fiction in Harper's. I think it may resonate in relation to what is happening with characters on TLW:

One of contemporary fiction's most frustrating tropes, however, holds that even the most shocking transgression is made psychologically credible when a character carries it out not for exotic or obscure reasons but for no reason whatsoever.

When I read that I immediately thought, IC is never going to explain the affair.

And this about Music for Torching:

Rather than give credible life to opposing ideas, Homes' characters are all in service to the same idea; our own presumed beliefs about bourgeois (substitute lesbian for IC) normality are supposed to provide the resistance that renders their behavior transgressive in the first place.

This is why I think that anyone who feels as aheisey does:

Stop yanking my TiBette chain IC, or I'll strangle you with it!

would be well advised to follow Winnie's advice to Bette about Helena.

But I can get into the notion that IC is trying to deconstruct the whole how does the world look at lesbians while she is looking at lesbians herself. Does any of this make sense? - bfan

Yes it does.

[nekalit]

Why? When Tina told Bette that maybe Helena was wanted at the party, Bette walked away. She made a realization. Same happened when Helena referred to Tina's condidion.

Yes, but it was Tina's comment that made Bette take a step back. I need a glimmer of hope to understand if they have a relationship worth saving. I think we can read a lot into their relationship by what followed after Helena's comment. I find it really troublesome that I have to read between the lines regarding something important. If Bette did indeed just retreat after putting two and two together, I would have liked to see this take place. Her reaction regarding the pregnancy is more important to me than her response to seeing Tina and Helena together at the Planet. Not that I did not enjoy the power play.

[jennipie]

Which leads me to state, I want more scenes of FRIENDSHIP. - nekalit

Amen. About a hundred pages or so ago (that’s totally a wild guess, it could be more or less than that), I said something similar. Sure, everyone has their own melodramas going on, but friendship between these women was one of the things that really drew me to the show. QBIC & Co. have changed the focus so much this season, it’s disheartening. It’s one thing for everyone to be dealing with their own shit, but at the end of the day, shouldn’t they share it with each other? Don’t make me start singing Dionne Warwick in here...God, I must be feeling musical today ;)

I too drew WAY too much pleasure from the friend scenes in the past few episodes-- the hicky one at The Planet, the night everyone gathered at Bette’s to order pizza...I think these scenes were two of my favorite from the entire season. It’s just nice to know that no matter how much other shit gets in the way, friends can still be there for one another, and spend time together, and have a good time. I wish we’d see more than those few scattered scenes. Sure, the reality may be that friends don’t see one another much or talk much once they are adults with jobs, relationships, etc. But this is TV, and that’s the plotline that was established, and I want my friendly friend scenes, dammit! Heh.

I would really would like to hear Tina discuss with anyone how she felt knowing Bette how to go outside of there relationship for sex, and then finding out she continued the affair after she found out. -pioneer

I agree. That’s something that always baffled me. If Bette was so upset that Tina found out, that Tina had left her, why continue the affair? I would like to also hear Bette discuss why she continued the affair after Tina found out. There were obviously some underlying issues there that no one is talking about. I never really got the Candace thing anyway because I never saw anything attractive about her, let alone anything that I just couldn’t resist, but eh. To each her own, I suppose. In any case, did Bette continue the affair until it actually hit her what she’d done? That she’d lost Tina and that Tina wasn’t coming back? You must be living with your head way up in the fuckin’ clouds for that to be the case.

[toriweber]

I can't believe I am about to post this but....

I don't hear "I love you", I don't see "love you", I don't hear "Feel this", but hell I never heard "Hold me" either.

What I do hear is a weird sound at the end of their orgasms. It sounds like a snort, or worse, a fart. What the hell is that noise???

This post has been edited by toriweber: Apr 20, 2005 @ 6:10 pm.

[finnyball]

Tori - you are too funny!