Stand! Alone!
I'm so happy to have the show back that I'm trying REALLY hard not to complain but...
GOD. PSA, much? Good grief.
Also, love triangle stuff...eughdkfjdsahfdafjeiw. Please please please let there be actually interesting stuff next week. Did like Sachs though - I wonder what he's thinking?
Looks like Bronson's going bye bye...I loved "seriously, my friends didn't hire you, did they?" Also thecallback to the space elevator.
Amira was a bitch. Whatever.
Still though, happy to have the show back!
Keep Robbie Hull on staff. This and "Show Me the Monkey" were two of the more enjoyable/light episodes of the season. Many "diehard" fans will hate it, but I really enjoyed it. I liked seeing Wallace and Piz together, Mac and Veronica, Keith at work... It really reminded me why I like all these characters and why they like each other. I think it was a good starter episode. I hope a bunch of new viewers tuned in...
WTF? A Glamour Shots birthday cake? It's official, RT has castrated Logan Echols.
EF: grammer
Amira is really Kendall Casablancas in disguise.
WHEN did Veronica get Pirate Points made worthless?
Those Arabs are really Persians in disguise.
I think I heard screaming across the east coast at like 9:56 pm, but I don’t mind Piz/Veronica.
Max and Mac? Adorable.
"Seriously, did...did my friends hire you? "
Classic.
They tried to do the camera thing? Are you fucking kidding me? Sorry, I had to let my L/V shipper out for that. Sorry, but that made me hate V/Piz even more. I can deal with it for now, but I don't like it. I kind of wish Veronica would have a relationship with someone who wasn't a main cast member. Or just be single.
Other than that, it was a fairly average episode. I liked some parts, and it got better towards the end (other than V/P), but I hope the final four pack a bigger punch. It was nice to see more Wallace, though. I missed him.
Oof. I'm really not sure how I feel about this. I love Piz, but Veronica suddenly realizing she's attracted to him after them kissing is a bit too OC/One Tree Hill/Dawson's Creek for me. Ths show didn't used to be all about relationships and I feel like it's turning into that. I thought that the MotW was pretty good and I enjoyed Keith busting Piz and Wallace. Also, Ryan Hansen is awesome.
That was pretty much a piece of shit.
The mystery was so boring and dull. The acting was awful. The girl who played the daughter can give Paris Hilton a run for her money for best actress, and the mother was basically a cartoon. It dragged on forever.
Keith subplot? Dick subplot? Who cares. Way to shoehorn them into the episode.
This show has awful character continuity. So Logan was never this way with Veronica? Hmm.. It's obvious he and Parker is just a roadblock for Veronica and Logan. Notice we haven't gotten any scenes with them, but suddenly they're all lovey dovey? And Mac and Max are basically the same person, while Piz and Veronica's kiss had a sweeping camera and had Veronica looking shocked- and in no way ripped off Veronica and Logan's.
And the preview for next week? Yay, more relationship bullshit.
"We don't all look the same, Sheriff." BWAH!
and...you can all hate me now but...
BEST! ENDING! EVER!
I can't hate P/V. I can't. They're adorable and Logan is mean and I can't.
*cowers from impending tomatoes and grenades*
Go Piz.
So am I supposed to feel sorry for Logan? Was he the one that would get hurt? Oh boo hoo hoo. He's been dating Parker, but I'm supposed to feel sorry for him having to see Veronica and Piz kiss. I don't feel sorry him. Of course I didn't feel sorry for him before. So that's no change. But I really don't get that ending.
Seeing Keith as sheriff was great. Don't screw with Keith, you'd think the other deputies would know that. Sachs tried to warn them about Keith and they wouldn't listen. The storyline did continue to show how Keith and Lamb do things. Lamb won't screw with the rich people, or screw with anyone that bribes him. Keith on the other hand lays down the law.
Felt flat to me. Especially the Arab story -- seemed contrived, like a PSA or something.
I was suprised that I didn't mind the whole Piz/Veronica thing as much as I did. But the whole "Logan is just so happy to be with Parker!!!!" hammer hitting us over the head was painful. And Logan encouraging Veronica to date and Veronica being all OKish with Logan/Parker seems off. And dumb.
Ok for me the best part of the episode was the end. Logan and Veronica and I love the lingering looks.
Pizonica hmmm well I must admit that I thought the Piz grabbing Veronica for a kiss was kinda cute and did give me a rush of butterflies awww..
I missed Wallace! Welcome back buddy! Mac and Max are soooo cute I love that they're dorks on the same wavelength that was cute.
That birthday cake was awful that's all i have to say and Veronica getting Logan's face? Priceless ha.
Piz/Veronica sucks. I don't buy the romance at all. This season is it for me if this keeps going like this.
The Mystery of the Week (? What do we call these now?) was dull, boring, and easily predicatable. Wow. A Jewish guy is dating Amira. Let me think. Do Jews and Arabs traditionally get along? I wonder why he would be sneaking around. Huh.
All the callbacks were cool, but they just reminded me of when I counted down to see this show each week. AKA, when it was good. Remember those times?
RT, get it together. Focus on the mysteries. Get the L/V nonsense sorted out.
Stupid oversimplified mystery of afterschool special proportions: Barf.
Logan and Parker: Barf.
Veronica and Piz: Barf.
Mac and Max? Priceless. It almost made the hour long crap-pile VM has turned into worthwhile.
Half of this episode made me want to barf with it's script that seemed straight out of the ad-council. I had hoped that only focusing on the MoTWs would make them better, but...apparently not. The rest of it made me alternate between screaming at my screen and just squeeing. Parker and Logan need to crawl under a rock and not come out until one of them (Parker) is in a coma, or my TV screen might not make it until the end of the season. And I SHOCKED myself to NEAR DEATH by sort of thinking the Piz/Veronica kiss was kinda maybe okay. I mean, chemistry doesn't come close to Logan/Veronica, but it could have been much worse (i.e. Parker/Logan). Really, it came of pretty well. If they're supposed to be a sort of interrim couple (crossing my spoiler-free fingers!) I can deal with this one.
But, god, when did Rob Thomas get the memo that all teenage romances are supposed to play like Logan's Creek? Wait, was that a typo? (Add this to the list of episodes that will depress me the more I think about it)
repeat post, nothing to see.
Double post.
Started off great and ended great but the middle was kind of bleh. At least the characters are being USED. Well except for Parker and Weevil. I'm sorry, I love Ryan Hansen, he's hilarious and a good actor but Dick needs to leave this fracking show. He adds no purpose whatsoever and his little antics were funny at first between polaroiding his crotch and dancing with a blow up doll, it went downhill. But the best part of the episode: the music. If it wasn't for the music, I wouldn't have liked this episode. But the music made me love it. My favorite part of the episode: Veronica getting called on her shit! TWICE!
Did anyone else catch the wretchedly awful preview for next week that came after this episode? Just when you think the promo monkies are learning their lesson...
I was actually really satisfied with this episode. I thought it was pretty well balanced..they saved all that drama relationship stuff for the last ten minutes. It makes me hopeful that the stand alones could work..I just hope they throw in a more intriguing mystery than what they gave us tonight. It seemed a little..light.
I agree that the MoTW felt like a PSA, and the ending was a bit soapy. And there was little continuity with L/V/P. I wouldn't care so much, except that this may be one of the last episodes ever...
On the plus side, I was thrilled that they used that Phoenix song during the last couple minutes. So that was something.
double post...my bad
I didn't really like the Arab storyline... It was just kinda boring, but whatever.
I really loved that we had so much of the supporting characters. I mean even if the show comes back next season we probably won't get all of them back and even the ones that come back might be cut back even more so I am going to enjoy them while I can!
I like Piz and Veronica! I was surprised that they kissed though. I didn't see that coming.
I don't like Parker and Logan... But I doubt they will last so whatever.
*hides from Dennys*
I actually really liked it. And I don't even like Piz/Veronica, I just liked it. I didn't even notice the lack of a mystery arc. And the MoTW didn't bore me to death, like I thought it would. Yeah, the daughter was God-Awful, but I liked it. I missed Veronica. And I loved the VM voiceovers, and the friend set-up thing and how Veronica actually cared. And there seemed to be quite a few callbacks, from the idea that Veronica wasn't liked in high school to a lot of high school stuff in general. I liked the added scenes from the opening scenes.
oh man, I SOO wanted to love this, my heart is already sinking for last few episodes if tonight was any example...
Arabs Arabs Arabs
It sounds so crude and almost maligning-what ever happened to "Muslims" if people have to be labelled.
First Piz/V kiss was the most awkward and squicky thing ever, like she was trying to make out with her brother.
"i promise I will use the Mars power only for good from now on"... please.
I want to cry.
I thought that was a very good episode until the last ten or twelve minutes or so. That whole scene at the party was just awful. I know I've said this before, but I am so sick of the romantic melodrama that this show has gotten bogged down in, and the promos for next week just made next episode look worse. On top of which, what on earth was the point of the whole Dick-has-two-dates subplot? First of all, the guy-making-two-dates-for-the-same-time plot is about as old as dirt. Worse, this wasn't a good, or even passable, rendition of that plot. Did anyone seriously think for a moment that Dick would get away with it? Did that subplot have anything to do with anything else that was going on? It was stupid and exploitative.
As for the mystery, I thought it was reasonably well-handled. I do wonder if they thought they were being outré or daring with the whole star-crossed-lovers Romeo-and-Juliet Jew-dating-an-Arab plotline, because, in truth, it's actually pretty trite by this point. In fact, I knew what was going to happen as soon as I heard the boyfriend's last name. Still, even though it was pretty predictable, I thought it was nonetheless reasonably well-done.
I especially liked Keith's subplot, especially his confrontation with Veronica over the IDs. That was a nice touch. I liked that Veronica promised to use her skills only for good, but I hope that's foreshadowing for a time when Veronica and Keith come into a more serious conflict over just what the use of her skills for good constitutes.
Lastly, can we get a memo to all television writers, now and in the future, that, by every rule of etiquette, if one is invited to a party that one doesn't wish to be at, but which one nevertheless feels compelled to attend, it is considered perfectly polite to arrive, graciously pay one's respects and best wishes to the host and guest of honor, as well as to the other guests, and then quietly say "good night" and leave. The whole character-at-a-party-that-she-really-doesn't-want-to-be-at-because-it's-just-so-awkward scenario was a farely thin vein to mine for drama or comedy to begin with, but it was long ago tapped out. (Sorry if I went a little nuts with the hyphens there.)
I spent the first half, like many people, being stoked to have my show back, but then I really realized that just MoTW don't cut it for me. I'm ready to say that I would rather see the show depart than have a series of stand alone MoTW with the only continuity being the college makeout drama. I realize that the flash forward was what was on the table, not just new MoTWs every week, but either way, I need a continuing mystery.
This show makes me talk to my tv way too much. Logan's bestboyfriendever routine makes me want to puke a little.
I kinda like Max and Mac. They are cute. But I thought the same thing about Bronson a couple episodes ago.
I also realized, I kinda hate Parker.
I'm sick of Dick too, surfsup79. If there is a S4, I am hoping Ryan Hansen will choose to go on to do other things.
The only part of the P/V/L bit that I didn't buy was Veronica chasing after him and smiling at him like that before going in for the second kiss. That felt forced. But shit, so did all of VD. In my mind that was Veronica deluding herself into thinking she could have something "normal." You know, like Logan pretending he can date a happy girl and just be happy. Maybe the writers see the parallels. They certainly see the connections between the characters (see http://www.neptunepirateradio.com/episodes/34.mp3) and they proved that beautifully tonight with the "You don't even like people" line. Heh.
I loved Keith's whole story tonight. I liked seeing the callback to the fake IDs she made for Wallace and Piz. I also enjoyed the few Veronica/Keith moments we got to see.
The mystery of the week was pretty good, not my favorite, but certainly not bad either. I really liked the outcome and Veronica let the restaurant owners do what they felt was best instead of taking revenge on her own. See, she's not a bitch.
And it's official (okay, it was actually official before tonight) but I love Piz. I can't wait to see where this goes. I knew about the kiss before hand and yet I still got quite excited when it happened. I knew Logan would see them and yet I still felt all the tension between them.
The board is being really weird tonight. Double post. Not my fault.
Wow, board. Issues much?
Double Post. Again.
Please, Rob Thomas, don't do this. I tell people throughout the hiatus that no, S3 really doesn't deserve the bad reputation it's been getting in some quarters, and then you have an episode like this. Granted, I will agree Max/Mac were good together (though why Bronson is being cut out of the equation so early is beyond me), the whole Keith subplot I actually liked (the fact people liked Lamb because he was lax about certain things shouldn't surprise anyone), while Wallace doesn't get much to do, he at least got to be the voice of reason, and I liked the whole Pulp Fiction shoutout (the fact it was Dick who quoted The Big Lebowski this ep makes me hate him marginally less - marginally). But the MotW was so-so (though I did like the culprit still refused to talk to the owner, and the owner was the one who had Nasir deported - made things a little more shades of gray), and VM doesn't really do the romantic stuff well anymore.
Conformity to the desires of the network in order to get more viewers has stripped the heart of this show. Has everyone forgotten that this is supposed to be a show about detectives? Watching Veronica be ballsy and smart in order to catch the bad guy, seeing how the clues would unravel, and coming to the satisfying reveal used to be <i>fun</i>. The thing about having stand alone mysteries is that they are going to be shorter and more shallow. It's like they are putting mysteries in as an aside, but the writers really want to focus on the love drama. I mean, why don't they just air the Gilmore Girls twice or something?
The absolute worst part about having stand alone shows is that there is no connection anymore. Why should we care about the owners of the Babylon Gardens, or Keith's one man underage drinking crusade? It has nothing else to do with the rest of the show. Everything feels random.
That said, I loved Keith standing up for his ideas (although is particular cause made me roll my eyes), and the presence of Wallace (finally-wasn't he Veronica's best friend or something?) and Mac was awesome, as per usual.
For the bad: Did logan seriously put is picture on a cake?! What, have they been dating a week? Gross. And I know it's cliche but can I just say that I loate Piz and that I hate him and Veronica together? We know what this means, right? You can't have a happy couple on TV, so it's going to be all break up/make up from here on out. Ew.
Meh. I am...apathetic, I think? The MOTW was really, really boring for me.
I like Logan/Parker, so that was okay(aside from that horrifying cake with the glamour shot photo.) And the Veronica/Piz kiss was such a rip off of the WoCD kiss that it made me not so much notice the chemistry-free kiss, I mean, on the balcony of a hotel, sweeping camera angle, SAME. EXACT. facial expression from Veronica.
But the thing that induced the anger/pukiness in me? Since when would Veronica EVER drink ANYTHING given to her by Dick, regardless of the situation, or how nervous/uncomfortable she is. I mean, seriously? Madison is responsible for her rape, and she's drinking Dick's booze? What am I fucking watching? And yeah, he was drinking out of it too, which most likely means it wasn't roofied, but that didn't stop her from refusing a drink from the "Party Pig" when she was nervous/uncomfortable at the Alterna-Prom. So. What. The. Fuck.
Well, I watched for the first time since last November's mystery wrap-up, and overall it was okay. The Piz/Veronica was surprisingly enjoyable. I'm glad that it seemed that she was genuinely attracted to him and not just getting with him because of Logan/Parker. Hopefully things will pick up mystery-wise as the season (series?) closes out.
I can only comment on the last 10 minutes since I caved and watched. Well, they sucked.
I'm supposed to believe that Veronica would happily drink something Dick gives her-ask for it even-knowing he drugged Madison's drink way back when which led to Veronica's rape. OH. I forgot. MADISON is the one who drugged Veronica and Dick is harmless and hysterical. Right.
Logan and the picture cake. Ummm...was Parker's gift an I Love You Beary Much teddy bear? I'm sure she'd be squeeing over that since she seemed to love that Godawful cake so much. Good Lord that was cringe inducing.
I hate P/V. It looks like they tried kicking up the music and trying the spinny camera angle. Why not? Since Logan is now Duncan why not make Piz Logan? Makes sense, right?
That smarmy look on Piz's face after he kissed V the first time made me want to throw something. Why didn't they have little cartoon hearts and birds twittering around his head while a cartoon cupid shot one of those big suction cup arrows at his butt.
What has happened to this show?
ETA: Haven't we had Veronica realizing that Piz liked her already? Like, more then once? She must have some kind of memory loss from being roofied one too many times because if not that whole "Pshaw. NO he doesn't!" routine was really dumb.
Fucking obnoxious: The P/V kiss being ripped straight from WOCD. It's really upsetting that RT won't just let the few good moments left of S1 be as they are. Is he TRYING to make me chuck my DVDs in the trash?
Fucking ridiculous: Veronica drinking anything Dick hands to her, ever. HE'S A DATE RAPIST. These writers are on crack.
Fucking boring: this whole entire episode.
Please CW, pull the plug.
I really enjoyed this episode. I might just be savoring what might be one of the last few episodes of one o fmy favorite shows but - I enjoyed having Wallace and Mac with actual roles. I loved it when Keith used Wallace and Piz as his undercover guys and the Keith gets control of the sheriff's department stuff. Parker/Logan being so sickeningly sweet is unexpected -- and I like Parker so if Logan's just playing her. . . grrr.
I have also been dreading Veronica/Piz all year and now that it's here I'm finding it amazingly unobjectionable.
I was seriously hoping that when Logan gave his little talk about a permanent or consistent guy or whatever it was, that Veronica would go over to Wallace. I know, I know, they're friends and that should be enough, and if they were honest best friends they were in Season One, I wouldn't be wishing for romance. But I still hold out hope.
I prefer dark and sultry Logan, but I get the point they're making here. The last ten minutes were the best though. I like the teenage romance stuff I guess, and it just had better pacing than the rest of the episode. The MOTW was eh, but I dug Keith's storyline. Interesting how quickly Veronica missed the whole point though. She started drinking in the elevator with Dick without a second thought.
Aw, when did Veronica Mars turn into an afternoon special-cum-teen soap? Sad.
This episode was a heaping helping of Meh. Is there not going to be some sort of big mystery for this last few episodes? The angry intolerant muslim man who learned a little something about what intolerance is like and how women are people too was lame and not particularly intriguing. The Piz + Veronica thing feels totally forced and bwuh? I can understand her maybe saying "Hey, he's a good guy, maybe I'll give him a chance, see if he wants to go out some time," but chasing after him and throwing herself at him? Ookay. Tho Logan on the elevator was a funny reveal, if a bit obvious. Glad to see Wallace is around and a wise man--Veronica, you don't like Piz, because really, who is this Piz guy anyway and why should any of us care about him? Whatever. Please don't turn my show that on first glance looks like it's for 14 year old girls but is actually really smart and interesting into a show that looks like it's for 14 year old girls and really is, full of lame relationship drama and sensitive emo boys professing their love for people. Oh and one last note--as a recent college student, does anyone else understand how they're addressing drinking by 19 year olds at college? I totally understand Keith busting it up at bars when he's the sheriff, but seriously, don't these kids party for real? I knew there was a reason I didn't apply to Hearst.
Hm. Well, I was glad it was back.
As others have mentioned, I found the MotW a little overly topical but otherwise OK. I liked it when V pretended to be Nassir's girlfriend. But I think I missed a line of dialogue when V showed up at the Jewish frat house. She tells Amira she has a camera at the restaurant and saw the bf (whose name I missed) skulking outside (which duh, he was looking for Amira). Then all the sudden Amira is talking about Nassir and his pictures and how they will ruin her. I felt like they kind of leapt to that topic and for a second I thought Amira was saying that the pictures of Jewish boy outside the restaurant would ruin her. What did I miss?
I also noticed that Veronica was YET AGAIN surprised that Piz liked her. Isn't it the third time she has had this epiphany at the end of an episode? I am totally underwhelmed by Piz and V. Their kiss left me cold and Veronica's stunned reaction felt like ACTING!
I liked to see Wallace and liked that Keith / underaged drinkers plotline as well. I felt a little bad for V when she got chewed out for the fakes though. She made those before Keith became sheriff, and if he were not currently sheriff he probably would have laughed it off or at least dismissed her with a joking reproof.
ETA: I am pretending that since Parker said "OH you remembered!" the cake was a specific cheesy thing she told Logan she'd always wanted, so he came through. I am also pretending that Veronica did NOT make that disbelieving face when Mac commented about how sweet Logan seemed.
I consider myself to be one of the least bitter among the TWoP crowd, but, wow, was that episode boring as hell. I can't really describe how much I dislike Logan and Parker, but that is nothing compared to Piz and Veronica, just absolutely hate them together. So forced. Veronica pretending that she didn't know Piz liked her was annoying and Veronica suddenly coming to her senses after that awkward first kiss with Piz so now she is wildly attracted to him, WTF? All season long she hasn't shown the slightest interest in him and now she can barely contain herself. Please.
Ugh... I wasn't that into L/V but P/V grates. And the 'stand alone' doesn't stand for me. Hope RT can bring it back around though in the last epis. Or...
I'm glad to have the show back. I think my favourite exchange was between Mac and Logan "We went to High School together?" That was cute. I can see that they would get each other. They soooo should have been friends in high school.
The MoTW was ok. Did anyone else think that the Redneck guy sounded like Sawyer from Lost? It was distracting for me.
I really hate Keith as Sheriff. I hope he loses the election, I know he is doing his job and he is doing the right thing but he really bugs me in this role. I did like the interaction with Wallace though "you know we don't all look alike".
P/V was just blah for me, what were we meant to get out of that? If she liked him she would have liked him all along, to me she went after him because she saw everyone else pairing up so she went for it.
ethan, I got the feeling that the Mac/Max stuff so quickly after Veronica and Mac discussed how attached at the hip the latter and Bronson had become was Rob's way of reminding us that these are young people and that dating can be casual. I might be reaching but I feel like it makes sense in an episode that featured many scenes about dating (Dick getting two dates via MySpace, Wallace telling Piz to go all in, the obvious P/V/L/P stuff).
Rob was not happy with the party scene either. This is the episode they were discussing with the studio when we were visiting the writers and Rob really wanted it to be less corny, but VM can not afford to do reshoots so they did the best that they could with it in post. The studio actually wanted the kiss to be LONGER and Rob said absolutely not.
P-C and editor Dan Gabbe had a great talk about why the crane worked in this scene even though we all knew fans would feel ripped off: the kiss is shot from Piz's point of view. This is his "all in" moment and that would be how he would see it.
The standalone was boring. Veronica was boring. Wallace was boring. Dick was boring and nauseatingly unfunny. Parker was boring. Piz was boring. Logan wasn't boring, but I felt no energy coming from him. At least, Mac was around. Beautiful, smiling Mac. Bless you! I'm sure your smiles will be killed soon.
But gosh, Piz's big moment! There's nothing more romantic than having a guy kiss you when you are trying to tell him that you want to be friends. So, what? Piz has magical lips that leave Veronica all hot and bothered so she'll go after him and say stupid shit like, "You sure about that?" Ooookay. If RT thinks we are to buy that Veronica has finally see the (hairy) light, then he is seriously whacked. And the camera trick during the kiss was untoward. Not toward!
And then of course, Logan shows up because he always has to see Veronica's PDAs with her normal boyfriends. And honestly, it's hard to buy Logan and Parker when they only show up to make Veronica feel uncomfortable. Oh no, there is Logan and Parker having lunch. Veronica has to confront her feelings! Or is it feeling? I never tell with her.
*double post - thanks, TWOP*
Fuck Logan. Go Piz. Anyone but Logan. Hell call one of those Myspace lesbians back. It would be more interesting than LoVe.
If Logan and Veronica even think about getting back together, I'm gone.
[q]If she liked him she would have liked him all along, to me she went after him because she saw everyone else pairing up so she went for it.[/q]
I thought this as well. Before she ran after Piz it showed a pan of the room from Veronica's perspective. You could see everyone pairing off and I think V felt more a "Well...why the hell not? That was a decent kiss. He is a decent guy. Why shouldn't I?"
Forgive me, but I thoguht tonight was entertaining. Mostly because everyone looked to be enjoying themeselves. There were times this season where Kristen, Jason, Tina, Rico,et. al., all looked like they'd rather be anywhere than on-set and reading those lines, but tonight eveyone seemed energized. The banter was good 'Logan and Mac, Logan and Dick, and esp. Logan and Veronica, had a nice feel to it. (Loved Dick's peanut oil" shtick.)
In fact, the reason I think I liked this episode so much is because there was no sighting of someone-kicked-my-puppy, voice-on-verge-of-tears Logan. He was snarky. Not his snarky best, but he wasn't giving the wet, "poor me" eyes. (The whole face-on-cake thing is disturbing, but I think Parker goes for that sort of "Luv You Beary Much!" sort of thing, and Logan was just kow-towing to her. For me, instead of seeing it as some horrid sign of the show's fall into OTH terriroty, it just proved what an "act" the whole Logan/Parker thing is.)
Yet, it still bothers me that we can get good dialogue 'tween V and L broken up, but when together romatically they're as crackling as fabric softener sheets. Why the heck can't the writers give them this dynamic when together?
The fake ID thing just seemed put in there to give Rico screentime and have a "finger shaking" scene w/ Veronica. The big mystery was all right. Took awhile to get going, but it neer hurts to have more messages of tolerance on TV, esp. when geared to a younger audience.
And I don't hate Piz. I feel bad that he's still so clueless about things, but Chris Lowell was so cute in his glasses in the website promo that I can't really hate on him or Piz at the moment.
Glad to have the show back. I wasn't feeling the beginning at all, Jason Dohring's acting was very flat in that first scene with Veronica. I didn't really have a problem with the MOTW, it was okay. I did think it was a little irresponsible of Veronica to shoot paintball guns at those guys at such close range - ouch.
I liked all of the call-backs - lots of them this episode. The cake made me want to throw up but that was probably the point, right? Logan is supposed to be all different and soft with Parker and we're supposed to be unhappy until Logan and Veronica get back together.
I hated that Veronica would drink from Dick's flask - YEAH. RIGHT. I don't buy that at all.
Let Piz have his little shot with Veronica now. Everyone knows he's a future McDreamy anyway. If nothing else think of the cross-marketing.
Well, the MotW may be heavyhanded but I was glad to have my show back...
But maybe that's because I over-identify with Veronica this week. The ex hooking up with your supposed close friend? Been there. And honestly, I'm almost surprised that Veronica didn't have more rage going on, based on how it felt when I went through it. But those are my issues. And the whole making-a-bad-choice-when-you're-hurting thing? Well, I've been there too. That whole thing is not pretty; I wish I'd been smarter. So my thought is that Veronica will end up there too; it isn't pretty, but I do feel like it's a reasonable emotional place for late teens/early twentysomethings to find themselves in.
Perhaps the combination of getting to watch it with my friends on our tv night (it hasn't been the same when we had to find something else to watch at 9 on Tuesday), the wine, and the joy of having a new ep, but I'm willing to cut the show some slack tonight. And it's at least a little true to my experience in college, so I get some of it.
Ugh...double post...
Four pages in and no one has mentioned Clemmons getting attacked by paintballs? That was definitely my favorite moment of this whole episode. I definitely wasn't expecting that but was glad to see him. The MotW to me was better than expected, I admit that it did feel like a PSA but it wasn't as awful as I imagined when seeing the previews. Still not on board with Veronica/Piz but I can tolerate them...sort of, as well as Logan/Parker. There were a couple of moments that annoyed me (a la Veronica drinks from Dick's flask) that I can overlook because Clemmons got attacked by paintballs! My love for that scene redeems the whole episode for me.
I loved it. I thought TPTB put a lot of thought into the characters' thought processes and evolution. Logan was nervous and sensitive around V but still happy to be happy with Parker, and JD played his gut reaction at seeing them kiss spot on: like he hated it but knew he had no room to say anything. Parker was just...Parker. meh. Veronica actually went through a lot of mental debate about Logan throughout the episode. It seemed to me that being at the party was just her turning point of realizing just because they have deep feelings doesn't mean they're meant to be together, so she better get her act together and buck up. Sure, Piz is a rebound, but he's well aware of that and willing to see where it goes. I thought CL handled Piz's "talk" with Veronica very well. He knew what was coming, but was still open to see what would happen, what she would say. And after he kissed her, he assumed that it truly was the end of the story, but at least he got his kiss. I saw a lot of maturity and sadness in him that Piz doesn't usually let on about. And I totally buy her seeing Piz, right after watching L/P gushiness, realizing she's the odd man out, and after Wallace's speech, in a whole new light. Earlier in the year, she may have known Piz liked her, but she was still busy buying into whatever she thought she was going to have with Logan; now she had to face facts - a la the face in the cake - and guess what - a cute, nice guy who she likes a lot as a friend is into her, so why not travel down that road and see what happens; there are too many potholes in the other road.
Man, I love Keith. He should run for president.
Veronica spends a lot of detective time being swayed by people; kind of confusing and scary, if she's going to be FBI. I loved that the MOTW didn't have a fairy tale ending, but a pragmatic one.
nm
Okay I give up. What the frack is up with the boards? Another double post.
(I hope this is allowed)
I didn't watch the episode, but would anyone mind giving me a quick recap? Pretty please? Cherry on top?
Couch Baron will be posting a recaplet by tomorrow sometime.
Wow. That was disappointing. A few good moments here and there, but the critics aren't going to mourn the end of this show. It's really sad, but there it is. That noir feeling, that outsider feeling--it's just gone. Veronica simply doesn't have it anymore. I didn't care about the mystery. How lovely that the restaurant owner saw the error of his ways after a five minute speech to the punk who trashed his restaurant and suddenly became okay with his daughter dating a Jewish man. That's all it took. A little five minute speech. How precious and cute.
I'm not a shipper, but Piz is kind of boring. Not the actor's fault, this just isn't the part for him. No wonder he's jumping ship to another series next year. Seeing Wallace was nice. When did Keith become a better character than Veronica? This show should be about the father, not the daughter. How telling....I turned 35 New Year's Day and I think I've officially outgrown Veronica and her magical 18-34 demo.
Hasn't anyone ever over did a relationship after breaking up with someone. Had a friend who had this dramafest with her boyfriend and then met someone else and did the whole cutisy hand holding Disney music sickning sweet thing. We were all ready to barf.
The relationship didn't last mind you. But it did wonders for her self esteem.
Just saying.
I don't know what happened. Double post
I had this horrible fear that the "defacer" was going to come out of the house and attack the couple while they just stood there and chatted. I apparently saw too many people get shot on Heroes last night.
I really enjoyed the episode and I'm glad it wasn't the typical 'redneck commits hate crime' or 'community against cross-ethnic couple', etc. I'm also glad that Logan knew that the cake was ridiculous and he obviously did it in reference to something Parker had mentioned, hence the 'You remembered!'...while I didn't like Logan/Parker or Veronica/Piz, I did like that Logan mentioned he had braced himself for Veronica attending with some random date and that it was obvious Veronica saw Logan being happy with Parker, Mac and Max getting along and decided that Piz was 'as good a guy as any' and probably more steady than most. It definitely screamed 'rebound' to me, rather than 'wow, Piz, where have you been all my life?', so I definitely appreciated it. I also liked that Veronica expressed regret over disappointing her Dad with the fake IDs and she promised to 'use her powers for good'. Hee. Not to dwell on L/V too much as I'll be jumping out of this thread soon, but I also really liked that it was obvious even though Veronica had feelings for Logan, she was truly happy that he was happy. I also called the bar owner checking Wallace and Piz's IDs and saying something like he'd bet his bar they're real, just because we already know that Veronica's fake IDs are pretty damn good, so I'm giving myself bonus points! Anyway, I'm looking forward to next week and I'm glad I survived Logan throwing a party for Parker and the first (and second) Piz/Veronica kiss. Neither Piz/Veronica kiss reminded me of the WOCD kiss...I think it was pretty straightforward surprise about Piz kissing her and then after realizing how happy Logan was and even seeing Mac hit it off with Max, she decided to move on herself and give Piz a chance, rather than spend her days mourning for what she lost, when the guy she loves is apparently happy with someone else.
ETA: Double post, sorry! The boards are possessed by evil spirits.
Can Max be a recurring character forever and ever? And can there never be another photo cake in the history of the world?
I took the comment about Pirate Points being made worthless as meaning that they lost all value as status symbol once the unpopular kids were able to get them too. After all, if you're an 09er or aspire to run with that crowd, why would you covet Pirate Points when you can't wave them under the noses of kids in math club or auto shop?
The Pirate Points reference was among many references to the old Neptune high days. We also had Mac recalling the Purity Test scam and even got a brief clip of Clemmons ducking paint balls.
I may be missing the point on this one, but it seems like Logan's over the top behavior with Parker at the party and the Veronica-Piz romance are actually supposed to make viewers want to see Logan and Veronica get back together even more as opposed to embracing the two new pairings. Veronica's clearly hurt feelings over seeing Logan and Parker and Logan's shock at the kiss between Veronica and Piz by the elevator clearly shows that Logan and Veronica have a lot of unfinished business.
Off topic.
YES!!! Piz/Veronica Finally!!!
I really don't undrstand why people say they have no chemistry. For evidence I point to the cafeteria scene and a little farther back to his first episode, when they were sitting in lawn chairs drinking. From that ep, I decided they should be together. What the heck is wrong with him? He's funny, intelligent, fun to be around. Logan/Veronica's constant drama was frankly a snoozefest for me, I hated it when they got together. Come on, we all now whats supposed to happen in tv shows- Veronica ends up with Logan, the person shes "destined for" or whatever - and I'm 90 percent sure thats what they'll end up doing, if only to appease the majority of the fans. But the fact is that kind of stuff doesn't usually happen in real life. You find new people, you move on. Its hard, but you do. I love them together and I think he can be a stable, fun person for her, which she needs. He's not riddled with dark secrets (that we know of), which is refreshingly normal for a character on this show. Give it a chance people - the hero and the heroine don't always have to end up together.
I personally loved this episode as a turning point for the standalones. Personally I love Piz and Veronica. It came off as the most genuine relationship turn since the original Logan/Veronica kiss except for...
Mac and Max! Loved them! They cracked me up and had me squeeing!
I can't stand Parker... She is self absorbed, she really would have made a perfect sorostitute. Oh and Logan, how did you like that kick in the balls. It is not as fun when you are on the other end huh?
flamesong, the problem with Piz/Veronica is that this show is supposed to be NOIR, and these two clearly aren't together. A happy, fun relationship is not entertaining. It's also not believable. The whole storyline is forced, contrived and corny.
I gave myself an hour to calm down (and vent via phone to other VM fans) before coming on here, and I still have to post that that was a stinking crapfest!!!
All the good moments were already mentioned....I agree with the Clemmons paintball joy, kudos to continuity with "were you hired by my friends" comment of Max, and the space elevator. Everything else made me want to gag...and as a matter of fact in the last 10 minutes I ACTUALLY DID! I don't know that a tv show has ever made me physically gag before, but there ya go.
The "I've never seen him so..." Logan/Parker dynamic was such a total yawn that it is amazing these actors were paid for the scenes. Well maybe not a total yawn as after the cake squeeing, I'd have paid lots of money to have someone run her down with a car, but then I always hate Parker Lee when she is on scene with any guy. Maybe she should have gone off with the lesbos....
The MoTW was so boring that I literally felt the moments of my life ticking away. I have been dreading the standalones all season, but I was fully prepared to give them a fair shake...that was horribly meh though. Like meh on downers.
CL I honestly think had his best acting night of the series, however P/V and their TOTAL RIPOFF kiss made my hatred of him and them grow exponentially as I've seen others mentioning. I've seen how many times the boy licks his lips, his kiss would be slobbery not "epic". That camera move totally infuriated me. Absolute totally infuriation to the extent that I am sorry that I worked so hard to get ppl to watch this episode. I can see lots of new viewers saying why would she want to be with that bland old Logan when she has all in Piz as an option. ICK ICK ICK
As for Logan seeing this kiss, it was the most well done part of the episode. I mean he was such a jerk being all "where is your date so I'll know you aren't pining". I didn't feel the slightest bit sorry for him having to see the crappile that is V/P. He was a big part of what brought it on.
I enjoyed seeing V being the one to do a bit of pining this week, but I'll never believe that Mac would be so insensitive to her. I know Mac if friends of V and Parker, but still she'd never have rubbed V's nose in them so much knowing that V was struggling with the relationship to start with. Dick was a complete waste of screen time tonight. I am dreading the rest of this season horribly. I have been repeating the "trust RT, trust RT" mantra all season. I have defended this season though I haven't enjoyed it nearly as much as the others, but seeing that ripoff kiss honestly made me wonder if trusting RT makes sense. His vision for this show can't be anything like mine if part of his way of getting to his vision involved the *&$#(*#() I watched tonight.
That was the worst episode of Veronica Mars ever. What happened to this show?
Ah, thank you sowell. Not watching was a smart move on my part. Quality television, my ass.
It's an interesting reversal. Logan is trying to live the normal college life, with the bubbly sorority girlfriend, and the frat buddy. Last year Normal was the Watchword for Veronica. And look how well that turned out for her. Hmmm.
This show is just begging to be cancelled, isn't it? That was truly horrible.
One joke that I thought was obvious that no one seems to have picked up on was the photo cake. That was another mockery of MTV's My Sweet Sixteen or whatever it's called, where the girls sometimes will have crazy bizarre birthday cakes with their faces on it. They referred to this at least 3 times. I haven't even seen that show and I got the joke.
AprilJoiex, I just watched the episode. It involved quite a bit of fast-fowarding.
Surprise kisses have been around for centuries, in books before movies and TV shows, and in most cases that I can recall, they're used for exactly the purpose shown in tonight's episode: an impulsive showing of interest that bears no ill will, no threat, and certainly no intention of sexual assault. And a mild modicum of hope of reversing an opinion.
Off topic.
I like Piz, he's a total Ned Nickerson, but I like them together. Logan and Veronica are better apart.
seriously, that cake wasn't a mockery of My Sweet Sixteen? I could've sworn I read some article where it talked about the money spent on the birthday parties, with the tacky picture cakes and outfits and "bengal tiger rides."
sowell, you missed my point. The director chose to use the crane--it wasn't in the stage directions or anything--and since they couldn't afford to re-shoot it, the editor did the best he could to make it work despite the fact that it was not what Rob intended. P-C's fanwank about the kiss being from Piz's point of view as the reason for the sweeping crane makes sense. Watch it again with that in mind. Or don't, I don't care, just please don't twist my words around.
Wow... that was surprisingly good. It felt like Veronica Mars for the first time in a long time - the MOTW was nuanced, all the supporting cast were on their game, and Veronica and her friends acted their age.
And maybe it's just because I was in Vegas last weekend, but the "all in" effort by Piz resonated. I just hope the relationship nonsense doesn't overwhelm the storylines here on in. Unfortunately, I've been reading the spoiler threads, so I know better - I'll enjoy while I can.
If that cake was supposed to be a joke, than Julia Gonzalo played it all wrong. She didn't really laugh; it was more of a breathy 'aww, he is so sweet!' look with her saying that he remembered! as she caresses his face.
I... really liked this episode. Apparently a lot of people didn't, and maybe I just missed my show and was happy to have it back, but while I agree that the MotW wasn't the strongest ever and there were some PSA-y moments, for the most part I really enjoyed it. I'm not a Piz/Veronica fan by any means, but I actually liked the ending, especially since I think it's kind of shitty that Logan and Parker keep shoving their relationship in Veronica face (when she is obviously NOT okay with it, as hard as she's trying to pretend she is), and I LOVED watching Logan's face as he saw them kissing. Also, I didn't think Piz was ballsy enough to make a move like that, and it kinda made me cheer for him. I don't want Pizonica to last long - the impending end of the season and possibly of the series makes me slightly wary here - but I'm okay with them temporarily. And kudos to Wallace for calling Veronica on her shit and also for actually being in an episode for more than five seconds.
And as much as I loved Bronson and Mac... Max and Mac? VERY cute.
Hee... I watch House on Tue but thought I'd stop by to see if the hiatus had done any good to this show. After reading all your comments I'm still not sure if I should look for the CW online replay - btw, do they still do that? This episode sounds weird.
As someone who hates Logan/Veronica with a passion, this episode made me happy. I like seeing Logan when he's not involved with soul-sucking Veronica and I like Piz, so yeah, episode was tailor-made for me.
But I'm still more than a little shocked that Veronica drank from Dick's flask. Wow. Just wow. At this rate, I'm totally expecting a Piz (or Duncan or anyone with dark hair)/Veronica/Dick triangle next season, since Veronica really doesn't seem to have any problems with Dick anymore.
I'm surprised by the criticism over this episode as I thought it was very well done storytelling. Did anyone think that Logan's "being the best boyfriend ever" routine was actually some kind of redemption or affirmation after his breakup with Veronica? Leaving Veronica sent him into a personal tailspin, and I think he's trying to prove to himself that he can be in a good relationship, that he can be a good boyfriend. His primary issue with Veronica is that she never needed him, that he could never protect her because she didn't need him to be a protector. Logan needs, especially after losing everyone in his family, to feel needed and that he can protect the things and the people he loves. I think the parallel to Veronica and Piz kissing at the elevator at the end was an interesting (and not cliched) parallel to Logan and Veronica's first kiss at the hotel. Sure, there was no buildup to that kiss between Veronica and Piz like there was with Logan and Veronica in season 1, and I think that's precisely the point. Similar to Logan, Veronica is trying to exercise her own demons about love and relationships by reacting to Piz like the she thinks she's supposed to in order to be a good girlfriend. It makes that moment at the elevator both beautiful and tragic and absolutely 100% Rob Thomas storytelling. I don't think we're supposed to buy just yet that Veronica and Piz can be a couple, and the scenes for next week sure do affirm that. After all, would we really want Veronica and Logan to get over each other so easily after everything they've been through the last three seasons? Sure, they're trying to get over each other, but I think the choices they're making to do that are interesting and really add to the drama of the show.
As for the MotW, I think the show did a great job of simplifying a very complicated issue and I applaud the line said by the owner of the restaurant: "Saying you love America is easy until someone sprays 'Terrorist' on your door." That line speaks volumes about the climate of our global politics. I say that this episode of Veronica Mars is a return to form and Rob Thomas and the crew reaffirmed they can do a great hour of television.
Last reply because honesty I agree the show was not great but it wasn't the crapfest some of you are saying it is.
My thoughts on the Sheriff Mars storyline:
I actually liked it for a few reasons. It was to me a honest cop/dirty cop retrospective.
Sherrif Mars is and always has been an honest Sheriff. He went so far as to accuse a friend/daughers boyfriends father of murder because he thought he was guilty. Sheriff Mars tries to do the right thing. Sometimes it blows up in his face but he tries.
Sherrif Lamb is not so honest. He knew what side his bread was buttered. He often did the politically correct thing. He did what was easy. What would get him elected. He was lazy and not such a good Sherriff. He was bound to hire deputies that were just as lazy as him and had his mindset. He probably quickly got rid a the majority of deputies loyal to Sherrif Mars and now Sherrif Mars has deputies loyal to Lamb, his memory and his mindset. IE lazy, bribe taking, why rock the boat deputies. Someone like Keith Mars would never let that stand for very long. Yes he might come off a little preachy but in the end he is right. 18 year olds shouldn't be in bars drinking until they're too drunk to walk.
OK I'm done now.
Keith was the best part of this episode, but no matter. I doubt, somehow, that anyone is going to give up watching House next week to watch VM who doesn't already watch. I'm not expecting big numbers tomorrow. :(
I thought the point of Veronica drinking from Dick's flask was to show just how much she was dreading this party. She was so nervous that she was willing to borrow some liquid courage from Dick.
Well, I enjoyed it. I've been watching the show from the beginning and I don't feel betrayed or let down or anything. Piz was charming and if it gave us Wallace's little speech to Veronica, I'm sold. That was a wonderful for him.
I'm horribly depressed that they didn't use the elevator scene to FINALLY set the record straight regarding Dick and Veronica's relationship post revelation that Beaver did rape her. It would have been a nice freaking bone to throw viewers who've been waiting for the writers to get off their asses and actually SHOW character development in terms of a pair of characters, relationship, and why Veronica would even tolerate Dick being in the same building as she was.
Just wanted to say that I really appreciate reading how some of you read the same scenes that made me want to throw someone off a cliff. You have talked me down a bit, and when my stomach feels stronger I will have to sit through it again and hope to see some of what you guys saw. I'm going to try to see these relationships as "NiTW, redux", but I am not looking forward to next week and I think that is the first time that has happened to me with VM and it makes me sad.
I did enjoy Keith cleaning out his dept. It had an Old West feel to it to me.
I really enjoyed the episode apart from the anvilly nature of the MOTW as many have mentioned. Keith as the straight arrow sheriff was a bit of a shock to me but I liked the sting operation he included Wallace & Piz in too ("Stosh", hee hee). Frankly, the Veronica/Piz hook-up is a bit of a relief from the Sturm and Drang of Veronica's usual relationship woes so, despite formerly having seen Piz as a rather bland and uninteresting character, I must admit I was actually rooting him on at the end.
I miss the more Noir-ish elements but hope that they'll be bringing them back in future episodes, of which, I have to say, I hope there are many more.
As cute as Piz is, I am not going to be a Veronica/Piz fan. There is no chemistry there.
One look from Logan in the elevator has more chemistry.
Go back to season 1 and watch their kiss outside the motel. Still gives me chills.
Hello, I haven't posted in this thread before, but I thought I'd put my two cents in. First of all, Mac and Wallace!! I had to stop myself from crying out in joy when i saw them both in the same epsiode for longer than one minute, or I would've woke up my nana. Secondly, I thought the piz/veronica stuff would gross me out/annoy me to no end, but I find myself oddly interested to where it will lead. Mac and Max were adorable...I loved the "did my friends pay you?" line, but did that mean he thought she was a hooker? And lastly, in reference to Veronica drinking out of Dick's flask, I just kind of assumed that after finding out that Beav really did rape veronica and that she ended up with the drugged drink that Veronica maybe realized he wouldn't do it again or something. Anyway, she made it pretty obvious that she blames Madison for her rape, not Dick.
I really liked this episode! I like Piz, so I don't have any problems with he and Veronica kissing. I don't think it was contrived or out of left field or anything. I didn't even think of WoCD when I saw it. It was okay to me. I'm interested to see where it will go.
I don't like Logan and Parker at all. I've never really liked Parker, so that probably has something to do with it. I don't think I'd give my boyfriend's ex-girlfriend the piece of cake with the boyfriend's face, but maybe that's just me. I am starting to like the idea of Logan and Mac together though, but I know that Mac would never do that to Veronica. Mac and Max were cute together.
And Wallace!!! I always love seeing him, and I loved him giving V the lowdown of the situation with Piz. I hope this is the return of more BFF scenes with the two of them, they're my favorite part of the show. And my favorite quote came from Wallace: "Biggie Smalls? We don't all look alike, Sheriff." Ha!
Veronica looked really cute in this episode, too. I loved her pink and black shirt/black skirt outfit.
I like Dick but he is getting to be a waste of space. I didn't have a problem with Veronica drinking after him, especially since he drank first. At first I thought she was going to confiscate it because of the underage drinking thing, but whatever.
I'm so glad the show is back!
I wish she would have just stayed home like old times. At least that would have erased the heinousness that was the last 15 minutes of the show.
sorry, i'm usually a lurker, but I thought this was a pretty good episode....
Everyone at the bar my roomate works at was mesmerized the whole time.(of course I told them all to tell everyone they know to watch it)
I think everyone in the place gasped when the elevator doors opened and logan was standing there, even the people who were VM virgins.....
Wow, a lot of posts already. I really enjoyed this episode! The Motw was okay, but there were some good scenes tonight.
I liked the paintball scene when Veronica went to visit the boys, shooting at them and then the video of Clemmon's was really funny. It was nice to see more of Mac and Wallace again and have Veronica surrounded by her friends.
I'm not that bothered by the L/P thing. Why shouldn't Logan move on?? Veronica made it clear she didn't want anything to do with him. The cake thing was a bit over the top but I also thought it was a spoof on My Super Sweet 16.
It was THAT BAD. The ‘boring beyond belief I never thought this show would manage to achieve’ bad.
The season for me has been an enormous letdown, though the episodes managed to sneak in some amusing and occasionally engaging bits and pieces – until tonight. The leads were uninspired, the acting around them simply atrocious, the directing was pedestrian at best (I actually suspected the director behind the kiss scene copycat, he directed WoCD if memory serves), continuity was wailing six feet under (nothing new here), the characters acted like moonlighters from a movie of the week. The Romeo and Juliet of the Middle East, the inspirational speech, the underage drink-bust, the picture on the cake, the ‘I don’t have an arm candy at a lame party so I’m gonna kiss this one back’ - seriously?
And the saving grace of so-so VM episodes – the dialogue – oh, my ears, they burn! I could hardly take any more of the convoluted gabble they had Logan, this sadly departed great character, spout this time. Veronica’s VOs could not be more redundant, Keith more serenely benevolent in his scolding. Better not go into the MOTW story and the lightbulb relationships served tonight. So well done, writers and director, way to go.
I always laugh at American television and the fact that it is irresponsible and what not when 19 year olds are drinking and are in bars. It is funny because that is the legal limit here in Canada, and seen as the responsible age. Here there are 17 year olds in bars.
Piz/Veronica bugs me because I can't stand Piz. I see him as a meaningless character that was brought in to be a love interest for Veronica. He has had no mystery or anything happen to him the whole season save for his stuff being stolen in the first episode. Which lead no where. At least Parker had the rape--which was part of the bigger storyline. Piz? Nothing. A lot of his scenes are him obsessing and making eyes at Veronica.
I really liked tonight's ep. It was great to have my show back!
I loved Keith's, "I don't even have to ask where you got these."
And the all in thing. Especially because of the pay-off. Oh, and the callbacks. Hi Like A Virgin!
The MoTW was a little slow. But I enjoyed the elevator scene with Dick and Veronica. And sue me, I like Piz/Veronica. Besides, the lingering gaze at the end of the episode was gold.
I may be a total dork, but I took the Pirate Point comment to be Veronica caught her somehow accumulating PPs unfairly and busted her on it. Like it was something personal between the two of them rather than the school-wide devaluation which was total Duncan and as he wasn't with V at the time, there is no way she could be blamed.
As for the flask. I was not bothered by it. She hesitated before she took it as if she was weighing the possibilities and decided that facing THIS party without the alchie was worth the risk. I wish I'd had some for myself, frankly. I don't compare forgiving Dick to forgiving Logan, however, because I'd never imagine Logan drugging anyone anymore whereas I'm still not sure Dick even knows he did anything wrong. I'm actually even ok with her forgiving Dick if only they would address the issue and we understand why.
I actually really enjoyed this episode. It's true that the MotW was a bit cut and dry (and schmaltzy at the end, though it could have been a lot more syrupy), but I loved that we got to watch Veronica kicking ass and taking names to figure it out. The scene at the one-hour photo place was hilarious. Although it didn't factor in that most everyone uses digital nowadays, so it was a long shot at best. But Rob & Co. have talked a lot about how computers make for boring P.I. work. I'm happy to handwave.
Great continuity tonight, with the fake I.D.s, Van Clemmons and the pirate points. And Max! I thought the actor who plays Max did a great job in his big episode, so I'm glad they brought him back. As for Bronson (sp?), it's clear that he and Mac don't have much in common. So bring on the Mac/Max!
Keith was fantastic in the Fake I.D. subplot, and I thought they did a great job of incorporating it into the episode. They made it hilarious with the inclusion of Wallace (!!!) and Piz, we got great Keith and Veronica scenes, and we also got to see Sheriff Mars in action. I loved that they acknowledge that a lot of businesses try to buy the sherrif department's blind eye with donations and sponsorships. Definitely my favorite part of the episode. Plus I just like saying MARS ATTACKS! (Alas, he was so great at being sheriff that he definitely will lose the special election, right? Siiigh, noir.)
I think it's funny so much of the board considerd the Piz/Veronica stuff to be unnecessary cheeseball romantic fluff, because that's how I feel about almost all of the post-S1 Logan/Veronica. As much as I'd prefer the show to lay off the romantic drama, I enjoyed Veronica/Piz. I especially liked that Piz kissed Veronica in the middle of her Let's Be Just Friends speech, because he *knew* he had to do something before she could actually say it. If the kiss had sucked, he probably would have apologized and slunk off to his dorm room to die. But that kiss DEFINITELY did not suck, and so that's why he looked like the cat that ate the canary. He'd taken his chance, he was right, and he left the ball in Veronica's court. I do so like Piz, and I'm looking forward to seeing him on Addison's Anatomy this Thursday!
And I know Logan HAD to see them kiss, being as this *is* TV, but I really do dislike that almost all of Veronica's extra-Logan relationships have to have some of their most important moments be All About Logan. But yay for Phoenix!
But the best thing was the prolificness of the supporting cast! (WALLACE!) I declare the stand-alones a success!
ETA:
I'm honestly kind of seething with anger. If a TV show is capable of doing such a thing, I think it's safe to say you're finished. Which I am. I'll be staying far, far away from this board as well.
First, I'm glad the show is back.
The mystery was really, really lame. It was something out of a The More You Know...PSA. Hated that it took up most of the episode. The other stuff, I loved. I was spoiled for the kiss and didn't really feel anything. Didn't love and didn't hate it. It was just there. I didn't love this episode, but the non-mystery stuff did entertain me.
And I cannot stress enough how much I LOVED the Mac/Logan snarkfest. And, Dick is becoming a joke. He does NOTHING. I like the actor, but the character seriously needs to be off this show.
It was really nice to see the people in the opening credits actually in an episode. More later.
I was really bored. I flipped to "House" a couple of times during commercials, and almost didn't flip back even though I didn't know what was going on. It was like "One Tree Hill" meets after-school special, but without the awareness that it's a soap.
And why was Veronica surprised that Piz likes her? Wasn't it in one of the earliest episodes where it showed her with a brief uncertain look like "oh crap this guy likes me"? I feel like we've had a few scenes to that effect.
What bothers me about V/P (or L/P) even though I'm not any kind of shipper is how predictable the relationships are, yet with little foundation. In 3x01 I could have told you that Piz was going to be part of a love triangle, but when 3x15 rolled around and he'd barely been in the prior (five?) episodes, I assumed that nothing would happen, as it would be too OTH soap opera to leave it to the end without proper foreshadowing. Oops.
Shockingly, I didn't hate the episode. (probably because I am one of the only people in the universe who likes Logan with Parker) The cake cracked my shit up. I liked Piz's pickup line (at the bar - not the kiss of doom). I'm glad to see lots of Wallace and Mac. Veronica was annoying, but I managed to not be too annoyed. I was expecting something terrible. Overall, my verdict is "meh" with a side of "um".
I do wish for once people can do a little research on real Arab names. Honestly, are there consultants for this kind of thing? I'd do it!
This comment?
I'm so happy to have my show back-- finally! It may not be my favorite episode ever, but I was riveted anyway.
I agree that the MotW was not great, and the speech outside the redneck's house was amazingly badly written. Ugh.
Now for the great stuf. I loved the photo mart guy-- can't remember his name, but he's always hilarious on every show I've seen him on. I loved when Keith looked at the IDs that Veronica had made, and that he called Piz "Stosh." I laughed my head off when Veronica looked down at Logan's smiling face on her piece of cake. That was hilarious. I had to pause and watch three times the part where Veronica said, "Space elevator." So fantastic. Lots of Mac and Wallace! And don't forget the tiny clip of Van Clemmons! So many awesome callbacks (purity test, Pirate Points, etc). I loved loved loved when Logan toasted Veronica after sending the giant nerd after her. And I even loved when Veronica determinedly went straight to Piz to let him down.
I admit that the dreaded kiss was a punch in the stomach. I kept saying, "Piz, go away," to my TV. I just can't seem to like the guy.
I just thought I'd add my two cents on the whole Veronica-drank-from-Dick's-flask controversy. (There I go with the hyphens again.) Yes, Dick drank from it first. But the problem is that Dick is about three times Veronica's mass. So a dose of GHB or rohypnol that would give Dick a moderate buzz would knock Veronica on her ass. Don't forget, Veronica took one sip from the drink Madison gave her at Shelly Pomroy's party and then passed out on the chaise lounge.
I love Piz. I was so happy when he went "all in" that I literally squealed.
Veronica, be kind!
What does it say about me that it actually hurts my feelings that so many people hate this show now? (Answer: I should leave the house more often.)
I like V and Piz. Remember being a freshman in college? That's exactly the sort of thing that 19 year old girls do. You look around and hey, there's some cute guy who's just kind of been hanging around while you felt sorry for yourself. Right on, Veronica. I loves me some Logan, but for the moment at least, have at it. She's earned it, for heaven's sake.
This show has always had relationships at its heart. Remember "Who's at the door?" And season one, which is the very best season of television ever, had plenty of soap in it. (you might be her brother, videocameras, date rape, etc) It had Harry Hamlin for heaven's sake! And yet see above re: awesomest thing ever. The point is, I can handle some soap, if it's done well, which I think it is. I mean, I like it when we get cool detective Veronica, but I'm okay with her being just a really smart college kid who's seen a lot of crap and deserves a life of her own. That goes for everyone, I guess - I don't care about the personal lives of the people on CSI or Law & Order or House or whatever, but these people are different. I'm okay with a bit of cheese. I thought it was sweet. It was cute, going all in. It might not even matter much in the long run, but no mater what happens it's much better than having him moon over her from afar any more. That was boring.
Also, he's cute. Good on the both of them! But what the hell, with Logan's picture cake. I'm going to go ahead and assume it was an in-joke. That's the sort of thing Logan would probably think is funny.
It'll never be like season one. I'm over that. I'm just watching some good TV. If I ever hate it as much as some people do, I'll stop watching. Even the worst episode is worth 44 minutes of my time. Your mileage can and likely does vary.
I miss Lamb.
I really liked this episode as a stand-alone. I think the weakest aspect of the show is what they did with the Logan/Veronica relationship, making it an endless loop of soap drama. But the episode was decent, and I will miss it a lot if they take it off. Would love to see a year-long mystery at the FBI... maybe a serial killer mystery, where Lamb turns out to be alive and the killer... Silence of the Lamb... hehe.
I felt like I was watching an episode of "One Tree Hill". Cheesy badly acted mystery? Photocake? Standard teen fluff relationship drama?
This episode couldn't be farther away from noir if it tried. I have been a defender of S3 but crap like this is seriously trying my patience.
Oh yes, and the Keith-the-saint being holier-than-thou? OMG, you gave them fakes, they could be killed! Puh-leeze. That sub-plot held zero interest for me.
I will admit the episode was lackluster, especially after an 8 week hiatus, but it's not the worst episode ever. Yes, yes, the MOTW had a "next on a very special episode of Blossom" feel to it, but it had some really good moments.
There were a lot of call backs to previous episodes clear back to year one (I believe Robbie Hull, who I think was the writer as I was kind of half paying attention to the credits, does this a lot in his episodes). For example the call back to the Pirate Points. When it comes to that throw away line, I think the deal with Amira and the loss of the Pirate Points, like someone up thread (and excuse me for forgetting who) pointed out it wasn't the loss of the points but the classist value they represented. The way Veronica ties to that is she challenged the election results and perhaps Amira thinks had Duncan's first win been allowed to stand, Pirate Points wouldn't have become such an issue and he wouldn't have changed the status quo. That's my fan whanking theory and I'm sticking to it.
I actually thought the underage drinking subplot would've have been a better issue for the MOTW, because it's an issue that American college students face. Whether one agrees with the law or not, it's there and Keith is clearly trying to clean house and show that he's serious about enforcing the laws. It was a quick way to show that Keith is different from Lamb, is going to make enemies for that reason, and tie it back to the current college setting. Added bonus we got to see how his job is going to clash with Veronica and how she bends the law.
As for the love quadrangle at the end, even as an admitted L/V shipper I wasn't bugged by the whole L/P or V/P thing. Logan clearly decided to move on after his week or so of moping and not showering, because he decided when Veronica didn't accept the apology he left on her voice mail it was over-over. His happiness with Parker seems forced, like he's faking it until he believes it himself. The hard part is I think the relationship with Parker is supposed to be several weeks old now since the hiatus plays with the timeline, so it's hard to believe he's so in to this relationship that seems relatively knew to those of us watching. But I thought his look after catching V/P kissing was a sign that no matter how often he tells himself he's over Veronica and happy with Parker, he isn't really. But he didn't say anything just moved by, because like Veronica knowing that she ended the relationship and therefore can't object to his moving on with Parker, he can't object to her moving on with Piz.
As for V/P, the part that didn't ring true was the fact Wallace had to point out to Veronica that Piz was into her. Didn't she get that memo at the end of SMTM? Piz is so the rebound guy, it's not even funny. Sure Veronica went to him after the first kiss, but after the second kiss when she got in the elevator she wasn't making goo-goo eyes at Piz, she was watching Logan's retreating backside. She's taking a page out Logan's playbook and moving on.
This episode was totally worth the wait! I just loved so much about it. If this is how the stand alone episodes will be I'm all for them. The MotW was good, I liked how it turned out. Also I liked how Veronica seemed more sensitive towards people. (just as long as she doesnt get too sensitive!) I wasnt sure how I would like Keith being sheriff, but so far I'm liking it. It opens up alot more storylines. I wonder what the fallout will be from the firings. Wallace and Piz are adorable, I freakin love them. Oh and Parker and Mac are both pretty sucky friends to Veronica. With Parker dating Logan and Mac being all best friendy with him. Totally breaking girl rules. That being said, hopefully the writers have the balls to keep Logan and Veronica apart. I know I'm going against overwhelmingly majority but I have been a Veronica/Piz fan from the first episode this season. And I'm kinda confused by what people are saying about Piz "forcing" himself on Veronica. I didnt know that a guy had to ask permission before he kisses you. Besides she kissed him back soo.... yeah. Oh and last but not least, Veronica drinking Dick's liquor. As soon as she did it I thought the people at twop are going to hate that! Maybe it was out of character but I cant hold it against her as I would likely do the same thing if I was going to a party hosted by my ex boyfriend for his new girlfriend.
See, I thought about giving this show one more chance, but this episode was preety much crap.
Decent episode, but not a great one. Liked the reference to Like A Virgin and Mac's actions in that one. Not really buying V/P. Besides, they seem to be trying to make a triangle (quadrangle?) and I hate romances in geometric configurations other than a line. Besides, I'm a little tired of all the LoVe romantic angst. I wish V would take a break from the boyfriend thing for the rest of the season. Of course, I said the same thing last season, so why should I expect the network to listen? The CBS suits already killed one of my favorite shows by trying to make into a teen drama. I dearly hope they don't do it to this one. If I wanted a teen drama, I'd watch OTH. The underage drinking subplot seemed pretty interesting, especially when Keith was facing a bit of a rebellion by his officers. I'd like to see the conflict between them and him explored a little more. I too wish that had been the MoTW, not the graffiti. I liked that the perp shut the door in the face of the Arab couple after the speech. It would have be waytoo cheesy, and out of character for this show, for him to go, "I now see the error of my ways. blah blah blah." Again if I'd wanted that, I could (probably) just watch OTH. Enjoyed seeing Dick get burned. I still can't stand him, though he has moments where he's almost tolerable.
Sooo we all remember that RT and team are pretty smart, right? The whole drinking from Dick's flask bit wouldn't get past them. Every shot and angle has a purpose, especially on a budget this tight. I'm going to err on the side of giving them credit for some *amazingly* good tv and think that maybe we're being set up for Dick to do something bad again. Really bad. A reason for existence like you all were to kind to point out he doesn't have. He clearly does not learn lessons, and Veronica obviously trusts him again. Or something, I don't know, but I do refuse to believe that the writers would set something like that elevator scene up and think we wouldn't remember.
I don't hold out a ton of hope for the future, mainly as a result of the CW wanting VM to be more like Gilmore Girls and losing elements of what we all loved. Could they (the network) at least *try* to make it up to us with a 13-epi pickup and let the creative powers do the show like it was meant to be done? Please?
edited to remove some gratuitous *'ing
Also, can we please stop with the Big Lebowski references? We get it RT, we do! Please don't make me hate one of my favorite movies. Dick should not be quoting BL.
In Spit & Eggs, Veronica treated the fake IDs as an incentive/reward/thank-you for helping her out. So, sure, they were made for a good cause, but it's not like she asked for them back or had any illusions they wouldn't be used again. I think Keith had good reason to be disappointed.
Veronica/Piz's first kiss for the glorious win. Go Piz for growing a backbone! And...Wow...Logan seeing the kiss...how very soapy and fanficcy.
As for Keith, I'd like to see what's in store for him after clearly displaying his stance on the corrupt system Lamb left behind.
I seem to have loved all the things most people hated, and hated everything most people liked.
First of all...MOTW was not allowed to be as complicated and edgy as other complicated and "dangerous" real-world subjects tackled by the show have been in the past. I agree with whoever said that the whole..."ooooh you're brown too! you must be innocent!" was ridiculous...it would have been more interesting if one of the many complicated aspects of middle eastern conflict, sectarian violence and american sentiment had been allowed to appear in any way. I liked that the guy slammed the door in his face, because it was real and we've all been there when an effort to make peace has failed, but the preachy bit between husband and wife immediately after ruined it.
Other aspects of tonight's episode also felt too straightforward, preachy and boring. I hated Keith's turn as hard-nosed sheriff. I mean, it was fun for a bit to watch him take control of the sheriff's office, but tackling underage drinking with the self-righteous zeal of a priest? no. I didnt think he'd be dumb enough to take on such a pointless effort, and the vast majority of veronica mars' audience, both in and outside of the targeted age demographic, are very "meh" about underage drinking. Find a way to address the corruption in Lamb's former office in a way that someone actually gives a shit about.
Dick's myspace subplot was yawn-inducing. It was just the same ol, same ol for him, and i couldnt stomach the cutesy cliche "we showed you! ha!" ending. at least in the past dick's deviance served a purpose. We've been witnessing dick being a dick for three seasons...I want to see the Dick whose little brother raped veronica, killed a bus full of his peers, and threw himself off the top of a hotel. where is my payoff from that, dammit? where?
even with all of this, there were a lot of good moments. I thought the scene in the elevator with dick, taking a swig from his bottle, was classic. Logan perked up enough to deliver a few good lines of snark, and inspire hope that we may see a return to form for his character in the coming episodes. The P/V kiss turned out much much better than i had imagined....I actually LOVED the way they played that out, from veronica showing up alone to logan's jabbing "pining" comment to wallace's confronting veronica to piz just going for it. I loved her spur of the moment decision to chase him....very true to life, and not at all what i expected from her.
i'm undecided about the whole logan witnessing their kiss from the elevator scene. on the one hand, the awkward glance between the two was great, but it felt so contrived and i'm sick of seeing logan in these sad, sorry positions at the end of every episode, no matter what.
all in all, it wasnt fantastic, but it still leaves me pretty damn excited for the next four. Thank God veronica is back.
I have no idea if should by bothered by the fact that Dick and I have the same MySpace quote and that scares me. :)
Other than certain parts (for some reason, I dug Keith's subplot) this episode was really blah.
Count me in on the Piz/Veronica hate. Not only is it completely uninspired, I cannot and could not see myself taking them seriously as a couple.
All things considered, the episode could've been alot worse. Atleast it's back.
I liked this episode from A to Z. There, I said it.
I'm thinking of starting an Adam Rose fan club... who's with me? Why is it that I just perk up every time he's on screen? Oh right, because he's frickin' hilarious.
This episode makes me want to watch PT&T again, an episode I didn't really give enough credit after I'd first seen it, because of the stupid Logan/Madison thingy at the end. But Adam Rose? Was wonderful, is wonderful.
Oh right, there were other people in the episode too. I actually laughed out loud at a few parts ("now, who's family owns a big yellow pickup truck?") and basically just sat around with a big stupid grin on my face the whole hour. Except for a few of those afterschool special moments, where I was more cringing. But bring that Max guy back on screen, and that grin on my face just gets bigger and stupider. Put him with Mac, fine, put him with Veronica, hell, even Wallace, just KEEP HIM ON THIS SHOW!
I enjoyed this episode - PSA and all. I LOVED that Keith called Piz "Stosh," though it made me think of the lack of Weevil. It's the little bits of continuity that make this show awesome.
I gave this show another chance, and it officially blew it tonight. I've put up with evil feminists and other anti-female shit that's been trotted out all season (the stripper episode still pisses me off because of the way V treated that girl). I've put up with the show being turned into Logan Echolls & His Girlfriend when I fell in love with a show called Veronica Mars. I've put up with RT being more interested in doing shout-outs and catering to fan opinion than to developing the characters that really interested me--Veronica, Keith, Wallace, Mac. I'd gotten to the point where missing an episode didn't really bother me. Now, I'm at the point that my DVR will no longer waste space on VM. Thanks for the flag-waving, "God Bless America," ain't-war-grand bullshit, RT. Thanks for the evil Muslim that has to exist in every discussion of Muslims on American TV. Thanks for more Dick bullshit. (Fuckin' A, I hate that evil misogynist piece of shit! Woman-hating isn't funny or amusing. Seeing that fuckwad portrayed as comic relief is a sore point for me. Seeing V hang out with him is, as well. Those are just two of the many reasons I can't consider this show feminist in any way, shape or form.) Anyway, no thanks, RT. Take this show and shove it. Cancellation can't come soon enough!
As for this, though:
Since my expectations were so low, I was pleasantly surprised that I didn't absolutely hate this episode. Mainly because all the supporting characters had something to do! Loved Max/Mac, although I don't know why Bronson wasn't there. This was Parker's birthday party. Loved the Mac/Logan interaction-even though you'd think Mac would keep her distance from Logan because of her friendship with Veronica. Loved Wallace. Even though I don't like Piz, I think this was CL's best episode. Veronica didn't jump to any conclusions or falsely accuse anyone.
What I didn't like-the whole MOTW. Slow, uninteresting, not nuanced. Logan seemed really flat this episode until seeing the kiss. Keith as sheriff-really uninteresting. Veronica lowering herself to the level of a middle school boy. I usually love Dick, but all his scenes were disposable. I really hated that Veronica took a drink from Dick's flask. As many have said above, she knows that he has drugged drinks intended for others without their knowledge and probably has drugged his own drinks. The dialog seemed flat and the direction straitforward without anything special.
The positive aspect of not having a overarcing mystery is that there's time for the supporting players. The negative aspect is that if the MOTW is weak there is no dramatic buildup or conclusion except for the romantic ones. Now it would be ok if there was drama associated with character arcs that were not romantic in nature but there aren't. So it's just teen soap.
Holy shit I think I hate Veronica Mars.
I hated pretty much everyone in this episode. Except for Wallace, I guess.
Keith was so fucking annoying. What the fuck does the guys age have to do with him getting drunk and wandering on the street. Don't 30 yr olds and 40 yr olds and so on wander on the street after leaving the bar. Does him aging 2 years suddenly make him use a crosswalk? What the fuck! That was the dumbest subplot ever. I just wanted Keith to get run over by a car. And can he really just fire a bunch of guys like that?
Also, why did the dad get the one guy deported. That was pretty mean. If people want to laugh at dead bodies then they can. That doesn't mean you get to ruin their life and send them away. Lame.
Also lame was that the dad just suddenly accepted the jewish boyfriend. That made no sense and was fucking stupid.
Oh and everyone else sucked too. I don't give a shit about Logan. I never have. Dick is a fucking waste of time as well, but that's been said.
I hope this show gets cancelled. It's not the same awesome show I got addicted to back in S1.
There were a lot of things utterly ridiculous in this episode. Logan is apparently Duncan now, Piz is apparently Logan. Why don't they put it up as a neon sign? Logan? I mean, the rip off of the WoCD moment was so obvious that it was insulting and ANY other way of staging Piz and Veronica's first kiss would have been fine since I think Logan deserves to be respected more than he is with her. I was finally at the stage where I thought Veronica should go be with someone she respected and coule love and that was obviously never going to be Logan since she will always have a default negative opinion of him, his motives and his secrets. But then they go and RUIN the part of their relationship I still thoroughly enjoyed watching. They cheapened Weapons of Class Destruction, why not use the same song too? Sure, go all out with the rip off. Piz and Veronica should feel like a fresh and new couple and create their own history; Piz should not run the parallel track of Logan and Veronica's romantic history and, yet, I have a sneaking suspicion, fostered by vague spoilers, that we're going to see Piz continue to shadow LoVe's moments from season one. Perfect. If it started that way . . . my God. It's just disrespectful of canon.
If the characters move on, they should move on. There should be no allusions to another relationship in the embrace and it was such a BLATANT ripoff (it has a balcony, spinning camera, swelling music and SHOCKED BY PASSION Veronica face) that I couldn't even sit on my laurels and be meh about VP. I got angry. And I didn't want to be angry any more, I'd come to accept it was healthier for Logan to move on and be with someone who actually thought he was a good person so his self esteem could be rebuilt and he could SNARK again. I'm glad to see he's snarking again, but damn, way to ruin season one for me, Rob.
But that wasn't even the part of the episode that pissed me off the most. I literally can't even read the episode descriptions of future episodes because of this next part. When the spoiler image was first released and everyone objected that she probably was snarking and wouldn't drink, I was skeptical. It certainly looked like Veronica was taking the flask, not being offered it by Dick. And then it aired. Holy shit. I mean, it looked that way but knowing that Rob crossed that line actually sent a shiver down my spine. Apparently since the writers have forgotten what Dick is, Veronica has too. It doesn't matter that Dick drank first, we all know Dick takes liquid X and she had no idea what was in that drink, didn't even bother to ask or be unsure. Oh, but that's right, it's all Madison's fault. I hate that Rob actually brought up the rape this season and (wrongly) how Veronica was durgged, but he STILL made her take that drink. It makes it even more obvious how wrong it is.
She took his drink after being roofied twice <i>this season</i> and once when she ended up raped by Cassidy (drugged thanks to Dick - via Madison - and then moved into the bedroom FOR Cassidy BY Dick). She said she'd rather drink bathwater than anything at a <i>frat</i>, let alone from someone she knows has specifically roofied not only <i>somebody</i> but herself. Even if it was an accident, Dick was still going to rape his girlfriend, Madison, and she was still raped mostly because of him since he made it possible on TWO counts showing more intent than any other character except Cassidy.
The very idea that seeing Logan and Parker nuzzle foreheads is worse and more frightening than what could come from sharing alcohol with someone she KNOWS is tantamount to a date rapist is laughable. It literally makes me burst out laughing. I said when I saw the spoiler photo that if the flask touched her lips her character was nothing but a joke to me: everything she stood for is shallow and empty and meaningless. And it came to pass. What a joke.
Veronica is nothing but a flat cartoon now whose opinions are more changeable than the weather and who doesn't even feel anything deeply enough to even have her worst moment repeat on her when being drinking buddies with Dick, because of the idea of seeing Logan throw a party for someone else is suddenly worse than anything else that's happened to her.
Nothing she feels is real, everything she says is empty. I don't even believe any of the blank faces that were meant to be "sad" about Logan moving on, were anything but indigestion.
VP is Epic now, Epic enough to steal the WoCD kiss and transform Piz into THE love interest. I don't believe any of the emotions Veronica conveys are sincere. She'll be over it next week. She probably didn't even want Logan but didn't like that he was moving on and everyone had a partner except her. She's officially a 'have cake, eat it too' character. And utterly Mary Sue to boot.
I can't ever take her seriously any more.
I hate what they did to Logan, sucking all the dark edge from his character, and even going the cheesy route of having him put his face on the birthday cake of a girl he's been dating a couple of months at most. He's good at dramatic gestures and I can see maybe Parker was into that or Logan was being silly/ironic but ... it's still . .. not Logan. They made him soft with Veronica and she treated him like he was still dark trash who could stab someone at any moment. I'm glad he's happier now, but he's still not logan. He's Duncan, and Parker's apparently Meg. And Piz is trying to be Logan but HA! Whatever.
I said the flask thing was my breaking point if it happened. And it did. So . . . bye, bye Veronica. If I manage to find anything to watch in this show now, I certainly won't be barracking for you.
Oh - but I did like that they finally had Logan accepted by a girlfriend and included in her life. Friends with MAC!!! I wanted that to happen for so long because the actors are both great and their snarky personalities just had to be in scenes together. I'm glad that by dating Parker he can finally be friends with Mac, especially since Veronica kept him out of the rest of her life. That's an upside of Logan/Parker. I wish they'd actually shown the progression of the relationship that actually makes sense to me - in terms of personality - and we'd actually seen them on screen together, but alas. No. We get the relationship I still don't comprehend (that has now hijacked one of my favourite LV moments). We won't see Logan/Parker that much since Julie doesn't have that many episodes so I hope we at least get more Logan/Mac friendship scenes. Those were the only thing worth seeing in this episode, IMO.
I just can't respect Veronica when she doesn't even have any character continuity or memory. Piz likes me? What?? (how many times has she had this epiphany?) Suddenly she's sad about Logan moving on when she didn't even want him, but whatever, people are fickle with exes like that and I could accept it. But becoming drinking buddies with Dick? YEAH. None of that is computing with Veronica's characterisation. Whatever.
I'm glad she's back. I thought the story was a little pedestrian and too straightforward. Nothing surprised me, but equally, I couldn't have told you at the start what the result would be. The dialogue also lacked the wit I love when the show is at its best.
I loved Keith getting his broom out and sweeping house. Lamb was knowingly corrupt and Keith needed to tackle that leftover, and this was a realistic and organic way to do it. I still have hopes that there will be more development on the issue of Veronica's activities and how they impact on his job and their relationship. With luck, this was but a soupcon.
I liked that Veronica was a genuine PI in this episode. She followed on each clue as she came upon it logically and reached the end -- no jumping to conclusions this time. She wasn't money-grubbing, taking the case on purely because she wanted to help. To be honest, I think I was just pleased that there were fewer sticks available with which to beat the character and the writers.
Of course, fewer doesn't mean none...
Does anyone know the name of the actor who played Nasir? I did not find him on IMDB.
No more season long mystery. No Film Noir. Annoying badly written teen relationship drama. Substandard Mysteries of the Week. Yep no longer any reason to watch this show, which was my favorite just 2 years ago. I feel about as flat as season 3.
Just coming by to post that: what made me crack up at the very end of this (very) mediocre episode was how Veronica/Piz and Logan/Parker are both viewed through the lens of L/V.
-- Logan doing something uber-sweet for Parker and it's seen through the lens of Veronica's jealousy.
-- Veronica and Piz's big romantic kiss (II) by the elevator is all about how the doors open and Logan is staring at them, his face trying to hide the surprised hurt. And then the show closes on Veronica looking at Logan as he walks away, the elevator door closing on her expression of distress.
I mean, c'mon. It's like TPTB aren't even seriously trying to promote V/Piz as a serious romantic contender to the "true" epic couple. If they're not going to take it seriously, then neither can I.
Other than that, the MOTW was bleh, and well: clumsy. The strange thing is that I swear -- and I don't know if I'm talking out of my ass b/c of my deep and abiding love for season one -- but even the MOTW eps from season one were better, sharper, more interesting than current ones. Because this week's was some serious weak sauce.
This episode certainly lacked something. The MOTW was lame and the relationship drama isn't ringing true.
Here's to hoping the last 4 are much better.
So, aside from the whole "Madison roofied me, thanks for the drink Dick" bullshit, am I to gather that being a violent, rude, racist, is ok if your brother was in a war, and therefore you should be forgiven by brown people, but actually being a brown person and passing out offensive fliers means people who are practically family shipping your ass out of the country you've made a home? If Nasir had a brother who'd been injured by US shrapnel or something, would that have changed everything? Shut up, Rob Thomas. I guess they're hoping for a seasons worth of "loook how clever and un-pc we are," but it isn't clevel to resort to flat characters, stereotypes, and illogical plotlines. I'm done with this show, whether or not it gets a fourth season.
Here's my problem with the whole Keith part of the episode. He got all hot and bothered that the kid had been drinking with a fake ID and read Veronica the riot act -what if she had made his, yada yada. Well, what if she had? Did the fake ID make him drink himself silly? He played no part whatsoever in his own alcholism? (I mean, what 19 year old goes to a bar alone and gets that drunk? Seriously) It's only the nasty bar owners, crooked cops and fake ID makers that are to blame? Seriously, it was too much. The kid was a moron, and I think he could have been hit by that car sober on his way into the bar as well.
I thought the kiss sucked. I saw/felt no spark there. Just ick. And that ridiculous way Veronica touched her lips after -- just laughable.
I don't mind that Veronica drank from Dick's flask (oooh--dirty!) because he's been known to use roofies--I mind that she drank from it because she knows that he's the one that set up Beaver to RAPE HER. My GOD. Are we supposed to have forgotten that??
This was such a meh episode. MotW was an embarrassment--Rob, remember the words of Sam Goldwyn: "If I want to send a message, I'll call Western Union." And Papamira didn't want to support Nasir anymore, so he sicced INS on him? That boy's gonna be on a one-way trip to Guantanamo. Way harsh.
If there is one convention I hate in film/TV, it's the "one kiss and everything's different" motif. That may sound hypocritical, since it worked with such heart-stopping success in WOCD, but in that instance there was enormous setup, and it didn't end in Veronica running after Logan and kissing him some more. It led to self-doubt and awkwardness and drama. But I'm sorry, unless Piz uses roofies for lip balm, I can't see that kiss suddenly making Veronica, who has let him down easy before, suddenly decide that he's the guy for her, even if she did feel lonely seeing all the couples in the room. C'mon--this is VERONICA.
And Parker telling Veronica how much her presence meant to her, then handing her the cake with Logan's face on it? Most passive-aggressive move EVER. Which just made NO DAMN SENSE.
THis episode just depressed me. I kinda want the series just to end now; it's painful to watch what it's become.
Really liked it, but it seems I'm really lame because I forget what happened to Mac and Bronson. Thanks to reading the thread, I guess they just kind of had him fade away (ah, teen/collegiate love). Works for me. I'm their age and I know that boys and girls often don't work out.
Of course, I'm a P/V fan (although most of all, I like Veronica alone), so that's why I'm not all enraged and such.
Did not understand why PapaMars didn't explain why he was firing everyone. He just fired them. That means they can go be whiney and give lame excuses for why they got fired.
Piz is just too damn bland for Veronica. He's got way too much of a 'kid' vibe to be anywhere close to an equal to Veronica. I'm tired of showrunners trying to force me to like one character by making another that I do like look bad. It doesn't work for me in real life and it most certainly doesn't work for me on t.v.
What is there to like about Piz? I know next to nothing about him, except that he took one look at Veronica and decided there was no other girl in the world for him. Yeah, right - an 18 year old boy at his first year of college is really gonna meet 1 girl his very first day & then ignore all the others until he gets his big chance to change her mind. What is he, like 12??
I thought RT was better, smarter than this. Everybody already knows CL won't be on the show even if it does come back next season, so what the fuck is the point?? Why start a storyline this late in the game when you can't even finish it? And a ridiculously contrived storyline at that.
Rob, you had your chance and you blew it. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out....
sowell
I enjoyed the episode for the most part. I loved all the S1 shout outs. I was ho-hum about the MOTW, but I felt it had a really good theme: tolerance. I don't mean religious, racial or ethnic tolerance. I mean tolerance for people who don't agree with you or like you for whatever reason. You can't force people to believe the way you want them to. You have to accept that there are just people out there who need to hate something. Sad as that is. I'm glad the father didn't press charges. Nice example of someone showing tolerance through understanding. As for Nasir, he was here illegally. Being tolerant is one thing. Supporting an illegal immigrant (especially one who is distributing anti-American propaganda) is another. He deserved to be arrested and, hopefully, deported.
I'm not feeling the P/L/V/P love. But I think comparing the kiss shot to the WoCD kiss is reading waaay too much into it. I seriously doubt RT is trying to piss off LoVe fans intentionally. He can't afford to lose any fans at this point. That would be stupid. I don't think RT is sitting in his office saying, "how can I piss off those LoVe fans so they'll never watch again?"
I didn't think there was anything remotely wrong with the kiss, and I don't think it's even in the same ballpark as sexual assault. There is not only one way to kiss someone for the first time, and it doesn't always have to follow a formal request for permission. It's a two-way communication, in and of itself. It's bizarre to me to even be breaking it down like this, but first kisses, even awkward sudden ones, can be stopped, and Veronica didn't stop it. I don't think it's "blaming the victim" to assume that she had a number of options if she didn't want to be kissed. She can pull away, she can tell him afterwards not to do it again, or she can just tell him to go to hell. All fair reactions, if that's how she feels.
Whether it's a good plot device to have Veronica become interested in Piz is a different question. But it seems reasonable to me that she would suddenly look at him differently, even if she's doing it because she's lonely and frustrated.
Oh.My.God. I have always been a LoVe shipper and I have to admit that I did not hate Piz and Veronica. I actually *gulp* kinda liked it. I absolutely hated Parker and Logan though. I think the difference for me is that it makes me sick how they have destroyed Logan's character and I never liked Parker from the start. But, I still love Veronica and I always thought Piz was adorable. Overall, the episode definately satifisfied my intense need for Veronica Mars!!
Just wanted to be a geek and point out a continuity error:
Veronica didn't get rid of the pirate points. Wanda (I think that was her name) was going to abolish them if she got elected, but Duncan got elected and opened up pirate points to art classes, band, etc.
No, what Piz did wasn't sexual assault. Of course not. But there was the same principal behind it that makes people think sexual assault is okay. I don't find it romantic, and I especially dislike the implication that it was the very FACT that Piz got up enough confidence to violate her space that turned Veronica's opinion around. Gee, I hope I get so lucky someday. If only I could have a dreamboat like that to completely ignore my protestations.
But I guess that's how Veronica is. She's okay with the roles that Dick, Duncan, and Logan played in her rape (but not the role Madison played, for some reason), so it makes sense that she'd be okay with someone, once again, taking away her choice in the matter. I can't say RT & Co. aren't consistent about that fact, at the very least.
That was a particularly weak MOTW. Good theme, but the execution was sloppy and the message came off PSA-like.
Re: the kiss. If anything, blame Wallace for the bad advice. Piz is just too bland for me, and I don't think he's worth the rocks I'd have to throw. To me, the idea of Piz/Veronica seems like another shot at the normal routine. Dear show, thank you for showing me how bad Logan and Veronica are for each other. Thank you for making Logan play the gigantic ass trying to ram his relationship with Parker down Veronica's throat, and then siccing a random guy on her knowing it'd just annoy her. And thank you for making Parker irredeemably dumb and obtuse. She really took the cake there, no pun intended. Your plan went off without a hitch; I'd say I'm thoroughly convinced now! Logan is the devil spawn, Veronica deserves way better, and Logan/Veronica would never work. /sarcasm.
I'm still undecided about what the writers are trying to do with Piz/Veronica. I'm not sure if it's intentional that the kiss that was supposed to win us all over made me feel... well, nothing. They're really skimming over Logan/Parker though; Veronica and the audience hasn't even seen Logan and Parker kiss. The ending was laughable though, the way Piz' kiss just swept her off her feet. I gagged at the idea that Veronica would change her mind so easily. I get that she's frustrated, but it's really out of character for her to switch camps just like that. If in the next episode Veronica feels some regret, it'd make a bit more sense to me. But if we're supposed to take Piz/Veronica as the next new hot thing to cross Neptune? No. Just no. RT, I bet on you, and I lost.
Piz may be adorable but adorable isn't why I started watching Veronica Mars. I like my Veronica Mars dark, angsty, and lesson-free. I like it when adorable gets smacked down. Like when Logan plans a big romantic date on a boat and gets stood up. But I guess it's not that show anymore.
I will admit to having an irrational hatred of Piz and of Pizonica. But I think that's because I feel cheated on the Veronica/Logan front. I expected big things from that pairing this season -- not happily-ever-after, schmoopy things, but dark, sexy, intense, crushing, heartbreaking things. And the portrayal of their relationship has been one fat disappointment. So I am officially taking it out on Piz, and hating the Pizonica.
What did I like about this episode? Wallace. Mac and Logan. Mac and Max.
I'm going to continue the whole Logan potentially as a cheater to the Logan page (sorry for starting the discussion here!).
I've kept up with VM off and on (wife's a much bigger fan), but last night was the first time that I openly laughed at bad aspects of the show . . . Specifically, the Clean-Cut Hunky Teen Redneck Vandal Brother Straight Out Of CW Casting. His acting reminded me of the actor character in Team America. When he was going on about his brother, I started thinking, "And if you don't believe it, then you'd better kill me now, because I'll put a jihad on you, too."
I laughed until the end of the commercial break.
That piece of cake had Logan's head on it.
Parker was giving Veronica head.
Okay, I'm not a fan of the concept of singles, and they're as dull as I feared. The overall mysteries infused everything with an added layer. You had to watch with one eye on the mystery of the week but another eye on the overall arc. Now? Not so much.
But seriously. There are three of the things this year (counting the 2-hour ending separately). Three episodes, I want maybe a Tritons, a Big Dick's house of cards, and a Mac's babyswap or an Echolls Christmas. I want something at stake for one of the main characters, or else a lot more humour and twists all around.
So how the fuck did they decide that this was the best advert for the singles they could do in one of their last three episodes?
I think racism and the Arab-American community are worthy issues to tackle, and I guess for the most part they tackled them without it feeling too 'worthy'. But it's not like any of the characters really brought any emotional depth (or, in the case of Amira, any acting talent) to bear on the scenes, and nor did the case bring out interesting stuff in Veronica either. Veronica verbally beating up the misogynistic 7 year-old kid (tautology much?) was just so we'd feel okay with her taking down the misogynistic Arab suitor, presumably?
Keith & the fake IDs. I like the continuity, but again... dull story, and no apparent consequences for Veronica, Wallace or Piz. And I find it hard to get that excited about 19 year-olds getting drunk. Like Neptune teens are totally sober otherwise!
Dick... wasn't even funny.
Logan & Parker & Piz... oh god, make it stop. I don't find Logan & Veronica compelling AT ALL any more, but Piz & Veronica aren't compelling either. In fact the whole thing was vaguely creepy.
- Piz's stolen kiss -- I found it seriously creepy. Both for V's body language and Piz's, and her reactions. Played differently, they might have sold the 'romance', but they didn't AT ALL -- it just leaves a seriously bad taste in my mouth, and I've enjoyed P/V fine until now.
- Veronica using him and then getting together with him just makes her look like a real user.
- Her drinking from Dick's bottle... right...
- Mac and Adam hitting it off (what happened to the animal cruelty dude she was with?)
I like Piz, I love Parker, I liked Wallace back when he had lines, I liked Logan back when he had a point, and I like Veronica... and yet this scene, with all these characters, was stupendously bland to me. Same with Mac -- yawn. Max -- also yawn.
I've loved the mini-arcs this year. I don't think anything can top the first year with its shiny clean slate but I think S3 has been consistently good and better than the turgid second year. But this episode is probably the worst the show has done. Not a clunker like other shows have, just very bland. And a wonderful advert for ditching the entire supporting cast and moving onto pastures new.
C+
I don't mean to come down on one side of an argument more than the other in trying to moderate, but: this whole "sexual assault" discussion is going nowhere good. Kissing someone out-of-the-blue is not sexual assault. It's just not. Not close. Even if it's Piz. And at this point, all that's left is a "no, it's not" "yes, it is" debate, which isn't a debate at all. If you've said your piece, please move on to other subjects.
Okay, Dohring is very Mumbles McGee on his line readings, most of the time, but for almost 90% of his scenes in this episode, I had to pause and rewind just to understand what he was saying. Is he purposely doing this as he's embarrassed by the pathetic turn his character has taken?
desperatewm
I'm throwing in my hat with those who say that it's too late in the season (or series) for TPTB to be orchestrating a game of musical relationships. A lot of it has to do with shit poor character development.
I've tried to like Parker and Piz, but despite the kick I occasionally get from their respective endearing quirks, I can't help but feel condescended to. It's like they were grown in a petri dish at the Super Secret Non-Threatening Rebound Relationship Institute ™ and shipped out in time for Freshman Orientation. Maybe I'm just hyperallergic to synthetic chemistry, but I don't recall being this annoyed by Deputy Leo, Troy, or even Hannah.
Max and Mac (XMac?) seem like the most organic romance on the show right now--sure the nerd love thing is kind of obvious, but at least Max has his own thing going on, what with the "study guide" business and prostitute storyline. Bronson was always kind of a Generic Boyfriend Golem anyway.
Basically, this episode was brought to you by Professor Anvil Q. Boredom's House of Lame-u-cational Public Service Announcements, but it was totally worth it for the 2 seconds of Clemmons being paintballed, and the awesome photocake ... it's like Logan got the idea after watching a Saved By The Bell marathon. That, I can respect!
Sigh. I'm just going to have to enjoy the show (for however long it lasts) without reading these boards, 'cause they just tick me off. Just to get this off my chest,
Well, given the general tone of this thread so far, I doubt I'll sound terribly iconoclastic when, as someone who's been a huge fan of VM, I say that this is the Worst. Episode. Ever. No contest. When the credits rolled, I said, "Suckfest!"
When an episode of something I've loved so much turns out to be so disappointing, I like to examine that episode more closely than I might look at episodes I loved, asking questions like "What might the writers have been trying to do thematically?"
And there were some interesting things in that vein. The party scene, as uninspired as it was, created an interesting parallel among Veronica, Logan, and Mac: each of them engages in somewhat out-of-character relationship behavior. Veronica exhibits a "what the hell, let's give this one a try" attitude toward Piz; Logan indulges in cheese with Parker (though he has, despite what some posters have said, engaged in romantic Velveeta before--Veronica boat date, anyone?); and Mac, early in the episode, is revealed to be doing way-out-of-character things with Bronson (hiking, rising before noon), apparently for the sake of simply being in a relationship. Some might argue re: Mac that concessions are what you make if you're dating someone, but Mac looked anything but happy/inspired about it.
The writers were also obviously going for the tolerance theme in a huge way with the MoTW, with some attempt to subvert certain stereotypes. I will say that I hated the MoTW: it bored me, the execution was clumsier than clumsy, and the preachiness made my eyes roll out of their sockets. As a writer, I've been thinking about how the MoTW could have been better executed. I think that it certainly could have been, and in the process the MoTW could have tied into/helped improve Keith's completely dull subplot with the underage drinking.
Here's what I would have done: the drunk guy who got run over would not have been a random 19-year-old but rather the Iraq vet, who would certainly have many logical reasons to drink to the point of alcoholism. He could still have been underage; Lord knows under-21 soldiers are getting maimed in the Middle East. And it would be more logical for a drunk guy crossing the street in a wheelchair to get hit than someone with full mobility. The driver would have proceeded without stopping, making it a hit-and-run. The offensive flyer that Nasir was handing out might have been found near the site of the hit-and-run, leading the vet's brother to believe that the flyer distributor was responsible, and he could have tracked down Nasir via some clue on the flyer or by another method and still spray-painted Babylon Gardens. That way, the vet's brother could be introduced organically early on, when Keith is investigating the hit-and-run, rather than simply showing up randomly in the middle of the episode, making Veronica's unmasking of the spray-painter a much better payoff. It would also have given Keith more to do (finding the hit-and-run driver) than simply targeting underage drinking, which he still could have done, though with less boring screen time devoted to that. Finally, the vet's brother would have a much stronger motivation to lash out. And it would really have tied together the A- and B-plots. YMMV.
A final note on a theme from the episode: the past. Good Lord. All kinds of allusions to Season 1. I have to say I really enjoyed the Clemmons cameo, and appreciated the purity test shout-out, though it seemed slightly gratuitous somehow. I was surprised initially at the vehemence of the drinking-from-Dick's-flask backlash, though I can see the point. But Dick has been so retconned that I think the backlash makes less sense to me than it might, though I would agree the writers' choice is less than fortunate. Personally, I've never cared that much for Dick (ahem), though I'll agree with many that he's excess baggage and I could do without him. Makes me pretty apathetic, really.
As for Pizonica, I don't hate Piz. He is occasionally charming, and I don't mind a little Piz dalliance, though I think the last moments of the episode were handled badly. I would have been much more satisfied with Veronica chasing Piz to the elevator, saying "Hey, let's give this a shot" (much as she had said to Logan in the exact same hallway exactly a year ago), and have Piz take her hand or touch her face or something right as the elevator doors opened for the Logan reveal. It would have accomplished basically the same emotional purpose without Veronica seeming so out of character.
Finally got through all the posts!
I didn't see this mentioned anywhere [Cue the groans] but my favorite part of this episode was Veronica referring to one of the paint ballers as "Towelie." That got a chuckle out of me. As opposed to a sigh over the 500th Big Lebowski mention.
Well I just watch the episode and it wasn't that bad. I've actually been nicely surprised because I read the spoilers and was expecting something really lame.
The clemmons part was hilarious, and I had a good laugh with the piece of cake and Veronica's face when she saw logan's picture on it.
The MOTW wasn't really interesting and the ID stuff neither; by the way, if someone can refresh my memory, Piz and Keith never meet on screen before right? and apparently they already know each other? Weird...
Anyway the overjoyed Logan and Parker with the cake really bugged me off but surprisingly the V/P kisses, not that much, despite an evident lack of chemistry. It played far better and less contrived than I expected.
I completely forgot about the Clemmons stuff! That was great - especially how Veronica was defensive of him. Geez, I almost wish the show had started with V as a freshman so we could get two more years of her high school peeps.
Wow. Lots of passionate stuff here. MOTW was a little "more you know" (cue rainbow starburst) for me, but mildly intriguing. I thought there were lots of funnies in the dialogue (particularly the Pulp Fiction recreation, Towelie, "social foxhole" and Keith's REALLY fake IDs).
One thing I didn't see mentioned thus far was who played the original client, the mom from the Babylon Gardens. It was Carole (Raphaelle) Davis, whom I instantly recognized from the final season Angel episode, "The Girl in Question." She played the head of Wolfram and Hart's Rome branch, with a notorious dislike for gypsies. ("Dirty tricks for dirty people. Like gypsies. (spit!) We will speak of them no more!") I couldn't look at her without giggling and thinking of that. Plus, her husband has played a terrorist on two separate seasons of 24, AND the teacher who was sleeping with Bree's daughter on Desperate Housewives.
Also:
As for the whole flask controversey, given that Dick drank first and V's need for a little liquid courage, I didn't even think about it at the time.
Logan is better bitter.
Mac and Max were cute.
I'm bored with superserious Keith.
Overall not bad, and certainly not the blight on humanity that was the Pussycat Dolls.
Reading this thread made me think, "oh, can't be THAT bad." Sadly, watching it proved me wrong. A truly horrendous episode, and very poor by even series three standards. Worse than Donut Run, dare I say it? I cannot imagine anyone who hadn't seen VM before being drawn into this. I mean, I used to watch VM to laugh at the snark and be bowled over by the great dialogue and the interesting twists and turns; these days I end up laughing at the unintentional trite cheesiness. If I wanted to watch One Tree Hill, I'd watch One Tree Hill.
Things I hated most: boring, preachy MoTW. I think I threw up a little during the final PSA speech. Perhaps it didn't resonate because I'm not American, or perhaps it didn't resonate because it was ridiculously trite and I couldn't muster the enthusiasm to care. The MySpace lesbians -- if Dick is going to be involved in comic relief, at least make it funny. Veronica's wonky characterisation (unless Rob does a gotcha! and Dick's flask contained so many drugs that Veronica hallucinated the whole Piz thing.) Logan's switch from slightly romantic reformed OPJ boyfriend to lovesick eunuch. (As an aside, if Dick felt Veronica had castrated Logan, it would have been nice to see him snarking about the cheesy party and photo cake as Parker seems to have brought out his sappy side.) And Parker... poor Parker. Her arc should have ended in 3.09 if she's going to serve no purpose but to cling to Logan's side and giggle a lot.
Things I liked: Um, the Clemmons appearance? And Mac was cute; I liked her interaction with Max even if it was convoluted.
Welcome to the world of jumping the shark, Veronica Mars. So sad to see my beloved show turn into this. I'm trying so hard to enjoy what'll probably be the last ever episodes, but it's difficult to enjoy anything that's this badly executed.
Yup, piece of shit. I really dont like what this show has become, VM's love life is too tedious for me to care about it and I hate it being such a big part of the show.
I liked it. I thought the MotW was good, quick, current and relatable, if a little heavy handed and cheesy. But that's ok. This show really really needs new viewers and the old format sure as heck wasn't bringing them, despite all of us die-hards. RT & Co. have to make changes that not everybody will love but the point isn't to only please and cater to the fans you already have, it is to bring new and multiple viewers to this show, which is essential for it's survival.
It felt very realistic to me that Veronica would follow Piz to the elevator after the 'all-in' kiss after she looks around the party and realizes that she really has to move on. And why not with Piz? He's nice, normal, and obviously adores her. Besides, I like Veronica and Logan best when they are pining for each other, not actually together. It's the Moonlighting curse.
I think I prefer Keith as a PI but thought that his cleaning house was quite appropriate. He needs to completely get rid of the Lamb factor, in and out of the department. I did feel a bit of disappointment in him that he wasn't harder on Veronica for the fake ID's, especially when he was so passionate about the underage drinking issue. It all came back together for me though, when she apologized for letting him down.
Mac and Max were of the adorable.
I completely agree with Spadada about Veronica drinking from the flask of Dick (hee!) in the elevator scene. IMO it was to show just how much she was dreading the whole Logan & Parkerness that was the party. Her wiping it off before she drank was priceless.
I loved it and I'm 'all-in' with this show.
I'm with you, Finchster. I mean, wow.
And wow, I cannot think of a single instance in which someone has asked their permission to kiss me. I mean, talk about killing the entire moment and defeating the entire purpose of the spontaneity of the act. If, during some intimate moment, someone asked for my permission to kiss me, unless they were being jokingly coy and/or tongue in cheek (huh huh) my brain would hear that "record screeching to a halt" sound and the whole thing would be ruined. I can't even think of a movie during which that happened.
I mean, it's not like I'm that old. I was in college ten years ago, and I kissed a whole lot of people. It never occurred to me that there were people who thought you needed verbal permission to kiss someone. Does "second base" require a signed contract these days?
I thought it was cute. All-in, indeed. I was proud of both of them.
Piz is way less boring than Duncan, way funnier than Troy, and way less bumfighty than Logan. I loves me some LoVe, and it's probably inevitable, but in the meantime, everybody have at it, and have fun. They're in college. They're allowed to like, kiss random people without it being a huge deal. It never really made sense to me that V & Piz weren't closer, actually - he's all snarky and funny and he has his radio show and he and Wallace are close, not to mention all the shit she's gotten for only having billionaire boyfriends with lots of baggage. I thought it was sweet and charming.
It would have been better to end it outside, but the point was that she and Logan both still have trouble seeing each other with other people, so if that point needed to be made, I'm okay with it. Thank god she's having some fun for once. She's kind of had a crappy couple of years, folks. Let's let her act nineteen every now and then and kiss a cute boy.
Also, yes, ha, Towelie. That cracked me up.
Alright I gave up trying to get through all the comments to find out if someone had already said this. I really should be working at work ;) Anyway, as far as Veronica drinking from the flask here's my take on it. She didn't have backup and I've felt for a lot of this season that Veronica has finally gotten comfortable enough with Dick's dickness to move on. My main argument is this: if she can forgive Logan for being the one to give the drugs to Dick and get her in the situation, why can't she go one step further and forgive Dick? yes Dick was an asshole at that party and yes he did leave Cassidy in the room with her with a stack of condoms. But do you really think there was malice in that? I don't think he ever thought Beaver would do anything about it. He was just showing off. I feel like in this episode, Veronica had a bygones moment and moved on. And I think the elevator scene was one of the best in the episode. It totally transitioned into a real story not MoTW anymore, and the exchange was truly funny, god I miss that.
As far as the MoTW, I agree with the many many people before who thought it was forced and very out of character. That said, I get that this whole episode was about making the show accessible and trying to get new viewers into it, chockfull of backstory. There was a lot on the line with this episode and it wasn't to keep us happy. So I can't fault them for it.
And one more thing. I thought the myspace stuff was good *because* it lets new viewers know that the characters are on myspace and they can go look for them. I don't doubt that was intentional.
And one more thing. I thought the myspace stuff was good *because* it lets new viewers know that the characters are on myspace and they can go look for them. I don't doubt that was intentional.
Thanks for the support, BucketheadWendy. And Java Dog, thanks, I totally didn't recognize the wife from Angel. "We will speak of this no more!" Heh. I still giggle, but if I remember correctly, the recapper hated that ep.
As for getting carded, I'm 36 and got carded a few weeks back ordering a beer at Applebee's. Good thing or a bad thing, depending on how you look at it.
And I'm gonna need the beer, because if the people posting the overnights in the Ratings and Scheduling thread are to be believed, cancellation is pretty much a dead certainty. Any chance of getting those MySpace lesbians to cheer me up?
[b]Aludra/b], your post expressed what I was trying to say about the whole "arab" thing- What is an Arab? Does a person of Iranian, Iraqi, Lebanese, Turkish, etc descent call themselves Arabs? Does every "brownish" complected child have to be Middle Eastern? He could easily have been from South America, North America, anywhere. So ya, it was the racial profiling I took offense to.
I also agree with the poster who felt that Keith was being a little holier than thou- yes, he obviously has corrupt cops working with him, yes, excessive drinking in youth- at a lot of Universities- is a big problem, but address THAT problem. Kids can drink here legally at 18, 19 in Ontario, still the same craziness goes on at any age, I think .
I did kind of like V going into the classroom- at the beginning when she was actually talking to the kids about criminology (although the FBI anvil hit me pretty hard and may be what caused the migraine that I've had all night;)), if she would have actually been there to talk to kids about that stuff, not to solve the mystery.I could see college kids going into schools as part of a project.
And yes I am still sad, I feel no anxiety ie only 3 episodes left, who did it, why and how, and that by catching the "one" Many season mysteries could be wrapped up.
Did not care for the MOTW, but I loved that Veronica seemed to have a little thing for the brown fellas. A lot of fanboys scream that Veronica Mars needs more women, but I say bring on the South East Asians!
Here's my two cents:
MOTW was too preachy for my tastes. That little speech by the dad at the end - what was that about?
Yay for Principal Clemmons! How I've missed him. I know he can't go of to college with the gang, but couldn't he call Veronica in for help with a school situation or something? It's just nice to see a television portrayal of a principal as something other than an amicable but lovable doofus or a child-hating power-hungry jerk. (Can you tell I'm in the education field?)
Mac/Max was totally enjoyable - but what happened to Bronson? Did I miss something?
Don't care for Logan/Parker. Too sweet for my tastes, and I would have thought Logan's too. But what do I know, maybe he just wants a taste of something he never had growing up. (But the cake was way creepy.)
I'm okay with Veronica taking a drink from Dick. I think she was looking for a little 'liquid courage' to help her face what is sure to be a party full of akwardness. And, honestly, I'm sure she spent time around Dick while dating Logan. Do you think she had a taste tester for everything she consumed while in their suite? And while it may not be outwardly apparent, I'm sure his experiences from the previous season have had some sort of effect on him (which I wish we would get to see him deal with, but that's off topic.) Plus, do you think Dick would ever try to drug Veronica again, knowing that Logan would soundly thrash him if he did, girlfriend or not? No, my only problem with Dick this episode was that he just wasn't very funny. I may be in the minority here, but I've really enjoyed Dick this season. He reminds me of most of the guys I hung around in college (yeah, my taste was questionable) and can always get a laugh out of me (and my husband.) But not so much this episode.
Finally - the Veronica/Piz kiss. I'll admit I got a little thrill out of it. I should probably also admit that it had a lot to do with its similarity to an incident that happened to me in college. Just like Veronica, I got kissed out of the blue by someone who I had firmly in the 'just friends' category. Like her, I was totally surprised by his (to me) sudden interest. Now, in hindsight I can see where he might have been flirting, but then it just seemed like friendly banter. Not so much blindness on my part, but more of a lack of self-worth (nurtured by being jerked around by said guy's friend for the better part of a year). Also like Veronica, although I was surprised by the kiss, I thoroughly enjoyed, and it immediately led to great things. As I'm trying to remain unspoiled, I don't know where the V/P relationship is headed, but you L/V shippers might be interested to know that my relationship lasted a brief, but memorable, two months and ended with a mystery (I'm still not sure what happened). You probably don't want to know that I didn't go back to my high school boyfriend, but instead went on to new (but not necesarily better) things. That is how life works sometimes.
Of course, as a closet L/V shipper myself, I try not to draw parallels between the show and my own life. (But honestly- underage drinking, playing pool, surprise kisses, akward love triangles/squares - it's like a shout-out to my whole sordid past! Any of the writers from Iowa?)
*shakes fist* Damn you, double posts!!!!
**right there with you on the double posts***
Did anyone mention how similar last night's ending was to the Epic episode (don't remember the name). Veronica is in the elevator and it shuts but this time, Logan is the "hurt" one, not her.
I thought the ep was actually not bad. Only things that bothered me were: the acting of the entire Arab family SUCKED. those accents were terrible... the fact that the muslim guy dressed in Islamic clothing was "bad". And I doubt the Arab (maybe Iraqi) store owner would be that upset about a cartoon that's against the war. I can see him being against how insensitive the flyer is (but not the anti-war sentiment of it), but so mad he'd have the guy deported?
Oh and question... what does V say in the store to the clerk, "Arab guys.... something..." and laughs?? I thought V was great in that scene by the way.
One thing that has been bugging me about the INS bust was that if the INS were to bust Nassir, they certainly would bust his employer--the owners of the restaurant. The owners of the restaurant clearly were aware Nassir was here illegally, so he probably didn't have forged documents that they could point to to evidence their good faith cooperation with immigration laws. In the city I live in, we've had several high profile INS busts recently, and, believe me, the employers get in alot of trouble.
rinno33 Are you talking about V's discussion with the photo clerk? She said "It's like I'm dating a young Omar Sharif. Desert Fever."
This episode made me appreciate the stand-alone. I'm usually all about the long arc. I know renewal is all but out of the picture, but if the show came back in a stand-alone format next year, I think I'd enjoy it, a lot.
I liked the MotW, despite its political topic-iness. It saved itself, by making everyone's actions understandable. Nasir(?) wasn't promoting terrorism, just expressing himself, but he wasn't an innocent, in that he was here on an expired student visa, so he got the boot. The brother was understandably acting out of emotion rather than logic, and yet he was unreasonable enough when the Babylon Gardens' owners confronted him, that he wasn't a saint. The husband was a sexist in a sort of traditional way, but that didn't stop his wife from doing what she thought was right, and he came around. Besides, any resolution that has a Clemmons cameo, and Veronica shooting obnoxious teenagers with paint gun gets my vote. Veronica pretending to be Nasir's girlfriend was just icing on the cake, for me.
I thought Keith's fake-id/clean up the Sheriff's Office storyline was engaging, too. His reaction to Veronica was realistic, and he showed typical Keith Mars humor in drafting Wallace and "Stosh" as his undercover men, and making them drink near-beer. The new fake IDs he gifted them with, and their reactions were priceless, too. I also appreciated that Veronica was truly disturbed by the fact that she'd misused Keith's trust.
I loved the Logan/Veronica and Logan/Piz storyline. Logan is trying hard with Parker. He's making it a point not only to NOT revert to being shirty with Veronica when they're not a couple, but to make sure she doesn't feel alienated from Parker and Mac. I loved their good-natured snark, particularly: "How is it you have so many friends? You don't even like people." "And yet? They adore me." Oh hi, show! It was gracious and mature of Logan to admit to Veronica that he had girded himself for seeing her with a date. Similarly, Veronica was mature and gracious with both Parker and Logan.
I can buy into the cake, itself -- that it's something Parker wanted, and Logan, wanting to please her, was not above such a ludicrous gesture. Where it failed for me, was Parker giving Veronica the slice with Logan's face. That was just weird. If she's not (too) jealous of Veronica, and really wants to continue their friendship, doing such a thing would be sort of mean. If she is jealous, I can't see her letting Veronica have that piece. Veronica's reaction to seeing which slice she got was almost worth it, but not quite. I wish they'd done something else to get there -- maybe have Dick serving up the cake, or something.
Oh, I forgot. I had a little catch in my throat when Veronica took the flask from Dick, too. I thought she had second thoughts about drinking from any drink which had passed through his paws, but she was only wiping off the mouthpiece. I agree with Spadada, that we were just supposed to be seeing Veronica in need of some liquid courage. I just wish the writers had hung a lantern on A Trip to the Dentist, and had Veronica or Dick make some comment about it being GHB free, or something. It's a relatively small nit, but it was a tough visual to take in, at the moment. It took me out of the story. Dick saved it with his inept Casablanca quote, though.
I really liked what we saw of Bronson this season, until I saw Mac with Max. That was beautiful. OTP, baby. Enough said.
I enjoyed Logan sending the Swing Dancing Banana Fanna Fo Fanna thing guy Veronica's way. Just because he's encouraging her to find a consistently good guy doesn't mean he wants her to enjoy it too much, or have someone of whom he'd be jealous. Nice touch.
I loved Wallace laying down the law to Veronica, about Piz. I especially love Piz going All In (even though I think Logan and Veronica belong together). Their first kiss shot didn't bother me at all. The WOCD kiss was so very different, as were the circumstances leading up to it, that there really was no comparison, in my mind. And? It's pretty camera work, man. I like Piz's little smile to himself, right after he left Veronica and before he told Wallace he was taking off. He finally mattered as a character. That's been a long time coming. Poor boy's gonna get his heart all broked someday, because he's just not right for Veronica in the long run.
I loved that Logan saw the second kiss from the elevator o'pain, even though I don't want to see him hurt. I also loved his mature reaction. I wish the ratings had been better for this episode. I wish this was the sort of episode we'd had at the beginning of the season, when they were trying to attract GG viewers. It worked so well. Welcome back, show. The hiatus was way too long.
I agree that the MoTW was too PSA but I could handle it until the dad's speech which could have come right off of a 7th heaven script.
The Piz kiss did occur within minutes of Veronica hugging him and instructing him to act like her boyfriend so I'm really not buying it as assault.
This episode wasn't the best but not the worst either. And the worst episode of VM still beats most other tv shows in my book.
I ahte all this relatioship stuff, for good relationship stuff i tune into Gilmore Girls, I want dark tragic mystery. Dr. Who is an example of how a good show can be with only two series regulars.
The show did feel a little like 90210 last night.... I'm ready for Veronica Mars: FBI. I'm hoping they get rid of the entire cast and start over with Veronica in a new city without a steady boyfriend. It's time to loose the relationship stuff and focus on writing better mysteries.
Lotta snark here about Papamira. A lot of people here would have been happier with a straight-up poor-Arabs-as-victims-of-racist-America storyline. I love that VM is more nuanced about this. Papa loves his adopted country, while hating he's been singled out by some racist. Folks who come here from oppressive backwaters, jump through all hoops you have to go through to get citizenship, then open businesses and raise families, are often way more patriotic than folks who were born here. And I mean "patriotic," as in totally un-hip, un-ironic, flag-waiving patriotic, folks who cry openly at their citizenship ceremonies. And the bastard would-be son-in-law wasn't passing out an "anti-war cartoon," as someone posted, it was a cartoon mocking soldiers who died in Iraq. I totally bought that Papa would drop a dime on him about the expired visa. Good on him.
I thought only pedophiles and the morbidly obese used MySpace to pick up chicks.
My 5 year old niece spent the night and wanted to watch VM this morning...this is a normal occurance as she's a big fan esp of Logan. I gave her the Season 2 DVDs to pick one, but she wanted to see the one that made me so mad last night again. Why? because accd to her "I liked it." I (who can't let anything go) asked if she even liked the kiss at the end. She said it was "ok" and she thinks Piz is "nice". I said "the lip licking, puppy dog eyed, buffoon?!?!?!" and she said with as much attitude as I'd had "yes, I think he's nice. We don't all have to hate like you" HAHHAHAAHHA Touche
I'm surprised a 5-year-old would be able to remember which characters did what, much less understand what "puppy-dog-eyed" and "buffoon" mean.
For the most part, i really liked this episode. It was really light-hearted, and after everything that Veronica has been through, i think it was needed.
That being said, there was only one thing that bothered me:
The kiss. And not for obvious reasons. I actually do like Piz, but did anyone else think that the kiss was too tense? When the two kissed both times, Piz was very stiff...it bothered me very much.
The pace felt off at the beginning of the ep but it did improve a bit. I will say that is my LEAST favorite VM ever. There were some good lines, Wallace was at his most useful when he told V to let Piz down and Dick and Veronica in the elevator (and Mac's reaction) were highlights.
The MOTW was poorly done and scattered - starting with V's laughable leap to the ground. Did anyone else think that frat boys were behind the paintball? I thought that was the big yellow truck they drove around in when the Greek system was reinstated. I could be wrong!
Bronson and Mac on the skids was well touched on in the opening by showing how different the two were. Mac and Max are compatible and cute together but for some reason Mac's "history" lesson annoyed me. I don't know...
Logan and V's interactions were good. They seemed like two people trying to move on but also working hard at being friendly and trying to be around each other often. I liked when Logan just pushed past her at the end. Parker = YIKES. Way too schmoopy and oblivious for me.
My disgust with lapdog Piz is no secret. His constant mooning and drooling over V is tiresome and detracts from stories and more established characters I would rather see. I understand that V sees everyone coupling up and wants to jump back in to the dating scene but she IS going to hurt Piz. He's in for a reality check at some point - pure speculation of course. The kiss was so awkward like a kid's first kiss. Personally, I was uncomfortable and disappointed that we had to go there.
ETA: They can kill off Keith any time. I used to love his relationship with V but lately they've been the Keith and Veronica Comedy Tour and it's really turned me off. Keith has sheriff has had a little too much attitude lately. I know what happened to the underage drinker was horrible but why wouldn't Keith be all over the bar owner for CONTINUING to serve someone that was clearly beyond drunk? That's pretty common and understandable. I mean, because the issues are really more about personal responsibility and things. As others have pointed out - you don't have to be underage to act so irresponsibly.
More thoughts.
I still think the mystery was boring and lame. I did like the fake ID storyline because we got to see inside the department Lamb created. It showed a department so used to having a laid-back leader that they weren't taking their jobs seriously. It also shows that Keith has a tough battle ahead in keeping his place as the sheriff.
I don't think Logan came off as insensitive to Veronica. He's trying to move on. He's in a relationship where he is having a good time. I was so sick of Logan and Veronica this season, especially the way Logan was acting, and I love that he's happy (if only temporarily). I also loved that Logan didn't look back to look at V/P as he walked past them in the last scene. Keep walking Logan, don't look back! I'm not fan of Parker/Logan but I am a fan of non-emo Logan.
Guys, I was almost embarressed to watch the beginning of this episode. And the ending for that matter. It was all just so uncomfortable.
The peripherary characters, however, were rocking it last night. Keith, Walllace, Mac, and Max were great. And I even liked Parker. Veronica was fine, but didn't have much to play with. Piz is awkward... and it's not cute anymore.
After the episode was over, I went back to my dorm room to watch "Anne of Green Gables" and "Anne of Avonlea" with my roommate. A way better love story than ever Logan and Veronica will be. I hate to say it.
I have lost my hopes for this show.
I believe that was Jack McGee, who plays Chief on Rescue Me, which in its treatment of women makes this show look like a feminist dream. But that's a topic for a different forum.
For the record, didn't love or hate the ep, got a laugh off of Towlie and Brad's Big Brains, also got a laugh the director didn't intend off Restaurant Owner's PSA speech (agree with him but wow was that poorly delivered), and will be tuning in for next week's ep.
sorry. server oops.
sorry sorry sorry. Kids with paintball guns made me triple post.
Are we supposed to read anything into the new necklace Logan was putting on at the beginning? I don't know if he ever wore it before, but they seemed to draw attn to it what with him putting it on during his convo with Dick. I've always assumed the first one came from Lilly.....this one from Parker perhaps? blech
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